| theseum |
I'm looking to build a hypex amp with two UCD180's and I've read rumors that Hypex will soon be shipping an SMPS power supply -- does anybody know when this might happen?
Also, are there any products out there right now that will work just as well? Part of me wants to wait for the supply that I know is designed for the modules to "just work", but on the other hand I am getting impatient!
thanks very much! |
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| ssanmor |
You can find two SMPS specifically designed for audio at our web, www.coldamp.com.
The first one (SPS80) has been used by a lot of customers so far, some of them with our modules, some with UCD, some with LC Audio and some with linear/tube amps. All of them seem to be very satisfied with its performance and sound, so far. There is a higher voltage output version (SPS80HV) designed for +/-80V output, approx.
The other one (SPS30) is to be available from next week, slightly less powerful but sharing the same design.
All of our supplies have an auxiliary +/-12V regulated output, very useful for powering the driver stage of the BP4078, active preamplifiers, etc.
Both of them work very well with our modules and, judging from the tests from our customers, with our competitors' as well. However, you can find that we offer special prices for packs including supply and coldamp amplifiers.
Load regulation is excellent, dropping around 1V at max output (try to get this with a linear!) and noise is very low, you can see some measurements posted by ackcheng and others. We will try to progressively include more measurements in the datasheets.
Best regards,
Sergio |
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| mourip |
| quote: | Originally posted by ssanmor
You can find two SMPS specifically designed for audio at our web, www.coldamp.com.
The first one (SPS80) has been used by a lot of customers so far, some of them with our modules, some with UCD, some with LC Audio and some with linear/tube amps. All of them seem to be very satisfied with its performance and sound, so far. There is a higher voltage output version (SPS80HV) designed for +/-80V output, approx.
The other one (SPS30) is to be available from next week, slightly less powerful but sharing the same design.
All of our supplies have an auxiliary +/-12V regulated output, very useful for powering the driver stage of the BP4078, active preamplifiers, etc.
Both of them work very well with our modules and, judging from the tests from our customers, with our competitors' as well. However, you can find that we offer special prices for packs including supply and coldamp amplifiers.
Load regulation is excellent, dropping around 1V at max output (try to get this with a linear!) and noise is very low, you can see some measurements posted by ackcheng and others. We will try to progressively include more measurements in the datasheets.
Best regards,
Sergio |
Do either the SPS80 or the SPS30 have DC sensing circuits to monitor the amp outputs like the Hypex linear supplies do?
Thanks! |
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| ssanmor |
| No, that's up to the builder! The supplies don't include the DC protection circuit, but we can provide schematics for that to the customers who ask for it, we consider it a simple exercise that will increase the DIYer fun ;) |
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| Fin |
This eBay shop is selling some smps for audio:-
Stadholder Tek
Not sure how good they are.........................but the price looks nice ;) |
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| theAnonymous1 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Fin
This eBay shop is selling some smps for audio:-
Stadholder Tek
Not sure how good they are.........................but the price looks nice ;) |
I contemplated buying one of those supplies some time ago. I came to the conclusion that +-45v @ 2A is pretty useless unless you plan on powering >16 ohm speakers. |
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| Fin |
| quote: | Originally posted by theAnonymous1
I contemplated buying one of those supplies some time ago. I came to the conclusion that +-45v @ 2A is pretty useless unless you plan on powering >16 ohm speakers. |
Any good for use with one of these?
EB-TA0103 |
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| ssanmor |
You will require several supplies to power that: a main supply (I assume around +/-50V to +/-60V, that you could obtain with the supply you proposed, although it is so small that it won't work,
then +/-5V for the input stage, and then +12V referenced to the negative rail for the driver.
You can still use a coldamp PSU, using the aux +/-12V (reducing them with 7805/7905) to get the +/-5V input section voltage, and then generate the +12V referred to GND with a simple circuit from the negative rail (drop us an e-mail to ask, if you are interested). |
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| Fin |
| quote: | Originally posted by ssanmor
You will require several supplies to power that: a main supply (I assume around +/-50V to +/-60V, that you could obtain with the supply you proposed, although it is so small that it won't work, then +/-5V for the input stage, and then +12V referenced to the negative rail for the driver. |
How big should the supply be? |
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| ssanmor |
Sorry, I read the datasheet a bit deeper.
It seems to need +/-45V at around 400-500W for full power and 5V for the modulator, the rest is generated internally. (please double check that).
So a SPS30 or SPS80 (for more power margin) could be very suitable, needing only a 7805 regulator to extract the 5V from the +12V aux supply ;) |
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| Fin |
The SPS80 looks amazing at 800W. That would definitely do the job.
Is it reasonable to assume that the SPS30 will be 300W?
If that is the case - does it just mean that the amp would not acheive full power using the smaller power supply? |
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| ssanmor |
The SPS80 reachs 1KW easily.
The SPS30 is rated at around 400W (available from January), a bit tight if you are going to requiere full 250+250W or 500W from that amplifier.
Best regards
Sergio |
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| Fin |
| I'm probably not too interested in using it at full power/volume at any time. Hopefully my understaning is correct in thinking that using it a lower volumes is the same as using less of its power potential.....and this means that it is opperating in the lower distortion range. So - I'm wondering if it is worthwhile going for the bigger supply if I never intend to push the volume up very high? |
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| ssanmor |
| I think it should be OK with the SPS30 then. It will accept current peaks if demanded, only that perhaps you are not going to get the full 500W rms. Please contact us if you are interested (info@coldamp.com), this forum is not for commercial purposes. |
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| Pjotr |
| quote: | Originally posted by theseum
I'm looking to build a hypex amp with two UCD180's and I've read rumors that Hypex will soon be shipping an SMPS power supply -- does anybody know when this might happen?
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Yup, did put up the same question a few weeks ago here. But it seems JP from Hypex is on holiday :rolleyes:
Cheers ;) |
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| Pjotr |
| quote: | Originally posted by ssanmor
I think it should be OK with the SPS30 then. It will accept current peaks if demanded, only that perhaps you are not going to get the full 500W rms. Please contact us if you are interested (info@coldamp.com), this forum is not for commercial purposes. |
Hi ssanmor,
The UCD180’s will not accept more than + and – 48V (+ an – 45V to be on the safe side). But the SPS30 delivers 56V. On what time schedule can you have the SPS30 available for + and – 45V?
Is that a question of a different transformer or is it just a question of adjusting the voltage regulator loop?
Cheers ;) |
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| ackcheng |
| you can actually specify the voltage requirement to coldamp and they will make it for you. |
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| ssanmor |
Yes, you can specify the output voltage within +/-45 and +/-60V at ordering time with no added cost.
Best regards,
Sergio |
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| Jan-Peter |
| quote: | Originally posted by Pjotr
Yup, did put up the same question a few weeks ago here. But it seems JP from Hypex is on holiday :rolleyes:
Cheers ;) |
Hi Pjotr,
we are working on a SMPS. Our new Class-D engineer is started with a half bridge design, resonant topology and with synchrone rectification.
We have hired again an ex-Philips (NXP...) Engineer..... ;)
Cheers,
Jan-Peter |
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| Pjotr |
Hi Jan-Peter,
Thanks for the clarification. Because of the delay and no commercial design really fits my needs for a pair of UCD180’s, I just started my own design including PFC. Resonant topology looks a bit overdone for this application IMHO. There are other and simpler ways.
Glad you found an engineer. Skilled engineers for power electronics are very hard to find at the moment, I know. We have at our company 2 vacancies for such engineers which are hard to fulfil.
Success with the design,
Cheers ;) |
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| Jan-Peter |
| quote: | Originally posted by Pjotr
Hi Jan-Peter,
Resonant topology looks a bit overdone for this application IMHO. There are other and simpler ways.
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Why???
We like to have as low as possible EMI, and high efficiency. For the smaller SMPS we are not suing a PFC to save cost. But a clever design to have an autoranging mains voltage detecting circuit.
| quote: |
Glad you found an engineer. Skilled engineers for power electronics are very hard to find at the moment, I know. We have at our company 2 vacancies for such engineers which are hard to fulfil.
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Yes I know, it's difficult to get good people. However we are lucky that we get quite easy good people and students.... ;)
Cheers,
Jan-Peter |
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| Dag |
So what happened to the Hypex SMPS??
:confused: |
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| Jan-Peter |
| quote: | Originally posted by Dag
So what happened to the Hypex SMPS??
:confused: |
We are working on it. We have evaluated severel different designs in the past, and we are now close to a pre-pre-production version.
Our SMPS will be with PFC, the first version will be rated for 180W at 20Hz. We will rate our SMPS with a power at 20Hz and not 1kHz.
The next will be with double output power, and after this we go for real high power.
Regards,
Jan-Peter |
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| Bgt |
| JP, are they fully isolated? 3kv mains to chassis isolation? |
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| Jan-Peter |
| quote: | Originally posted by Bgt
JP, are they fully isolated? 3kv mains to chassis isolation? |
Of course!
Why do you ask?
With 2x12VDC, DC protection on board. Fully regulated PFC, 90~250VAC mains input.
Cheers,
Jan-Peter |
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| Bgt |
JP,
I think you misunderstood my question. Is it fully isolated so you don't need an earth lead/connection to the mains earth.
Like you don't need an earth connention with a toroid. So V-out has 3KV isolation to mains-in. |
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| Jan-Peter |
| quote: | Originally posted by Bgt
JP,
I think you misunderstood my question. Is it fully isolated so you don't need an earth lead/connection to the mains earth.
Like you don't need an earth connention with a toroid. So V-out has 3KV isolation to mains-in. |
Yes, it's fully isolated!
Are their SMPS availble for DIY what are not fully isolated?
Cheers,
Jan-Peter |
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| Bgt |
JP, ofcourse they are isolated but sometimes they are not up to the isolation value you will need with a 2pin mains plug without a mains ground pin(like in the living/bedrooms in NL). The KEMA says you'll need a 3KV isolation or 8mm distance between mains and secundary side of the SMPS regarding pcb lines/to chassis with no isolation.
When you have mains ground than the risk of being electrocuted in case of isolation failure or mains surges is minimal.
In other words, would you need a mains ground on your SMPS's to be safe. (on a 2 pin mains(without mains ground) system!!) |
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| Genomerics |
I think the question might be about something like....
Is it 'Double Insulated'.
Sad to say Jan but if you are going to claim your supply can be operated without mains earth connected and did not know that one then you and your engineer need a slap upside the head.
:-(
If you are going to ignore that one then that probably means you are not going to read or be bothered about the EMC compliance testing.
:-(
Go buy some Standards and bend your head reading them.
DNA |
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| Jan-Peter |
| quote: | Originally posted by Genomerics
I think the question might be about something like....
Is it 'Double Insulated'.
Sad to say Jan but if you are going to claim your supply can be operated without mains earth connected and did not know that one then you and your engineer need a slap upside the head.
:-(
If you are going to ignore that one then that probably means you are not going to read or be bothered about the EMC compliance testing.
:-(
Go buy some Standards and bend your head reading them.
DNA |
Last time I opened a DVD player it had an SMPS inside and a 2-pin mains inlet on the outside. EMC standards set forth performance requirements, not the means used to fulfil them
Cheers,
Jan-Peter |
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| Genomerics |
Sigh. There are words such as Class I and Class II and things like basic, double and reinforced. Then there is other stuff about how earthing is applied and bonded.
Other than general creepage and clearance requirements for your wiring, connections and PCB the most important component is the transformer and how it is constructed.
Layers and type of insulation, noise and earth screens and how they are connected and, if necessary fault currents they may have to carry.
It's not a total minefield but the standards are written more along the lines of legal rather than technical documents and it takes a bit to decipher what the accepted practice for your particular piece of equipment might be.
The requirements for a CD player are going to be slightly different to those for the power supply you are designing. The chances are that they can achieve the required performance and incorporate double insulation without trying too hard.
Look on the back of the box, there is probably a square within a square sign close to the mains inlet.
DNA |
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| Jan-Peter |
| quote: | Originally posted by Genomerics
Sigh. There are words such as Class I and Class II and things like basic, double and reinforced. Then there is other stuff about how earthing is applied and bonded.
Other than general creepage and clearance requirements for your wiring, connections and PCB the most important component is the transformer and how it is constructed.
Layers and type of insulation, noise and earth screens and how they are connected and, if necessary fault currents they may have to carry.
It's not a total minefield but the standards are written more along the lines of legal rather than technical documents and it takes a bit to decipher what the accepted practice for your particular piece of equipment might be.
The requirements for a CD player are going to be slightly different to those for the power supply you are designing. The chances are that they can achieve the required performance and incorporate double insulation without trying too hard.
Look on the back of the box, there is probably a square within a square sign close to the mains inlet.
DNA |
Let's wait till our SMPS are availble.
Then everyboday may give all comments what they wants!
JP |
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| Eva |
"Double insulated" requirements are very hard to fulfill. "Double insulated" rated SMPS designs above, say 100W, are quite hard to find.
Jan-Peter doesn't seem to know the standards, but those papers are ugly and dumb and are intended mostly to steal big money from designers and manufacturers and Eliminate Minor Competitors, so who cares? The papers are not even public domain, you have to buy them!!! Then you have to pay huge money to buy compliance.
Furthermore, most of the China-made stuff that we use *everyday* is actually not compliant with any of those safety standards. Most computer power supplies doesn't have any creepage at all between transformer primaries and secondaries. This is not only unreliable but a quite frustrating and unfair competition, but it's being tolerated by certification agencies and authorities.
The one that makes the laws is the same that makes the cheats...
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| Jan-Peter |
| quote: | Originally posted by Eva
"Double insulated" requirements are very hard to fulfill. "Double insulated" rated SMPS designs above, say 100W, are quite hard to find.
Jan-Peter doesn't seem to know the standards, but those papers are ugly and dumb and are intended mostly to steal big money from designers and manufacturers and Eliminate Minor Competitors, so who cares? The papers are not even public domain, you have to buy them!!! Then you have to pay huge money to buy compliance.
Furthermore, most of the China-made stuff that we use *everyday* is actually not compliant with any of those safety standards. Most computer power supplies doesn't have any creepage at all between transformer primaries and secondaries. This is not only unreliable but a quite frustrating and unfair competition, but it's being tolerated by certification agencies and authorities.
The one that makes the laws is the same that makes the cheats...
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You're telling me all the kind of stuff we are already highly aware about. So aware, in fact, that we're quite comfortable that we have the relevant variables under control. Given our understanding of the technical issues I understand your skepticism but I don't think I'm going to allay it simply by *talking* about it. So I suggest we leave it at this and let the product speak for itself when it's finished.
Cheers,
Jan-Peter |
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| mzzj |
| quote: | Originally posted by Eva
"Double insulated" requirements are very hard to fulfill. "Double insulated" rated SMPS designs above, say 100W, are quite hard to find.
Jan-Peter doesn't seem to know the standards, but those papers are ugly and dumb and are intended mostly to steal big money from designers and manufacturers and Eliminate Minor Competitors, so who cares? The papers are not even public domain, you have to buy them!!! Then you have to pay huge money to buy compliance.
Furthermore, most of the China-made stuff that we use *everyday* is actually not compliant with any of those safety standards. Most computer power supplies doesn't have any creepage at all between transformer primaries and secondaries. This is not only unreliable but a quite frustrating and unfair competition, but it's being tolerated by certification agencies and authorities.
The one that makes the laws is the same that makes the cheats...
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Nonsense |
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| Eva |
Hey mzzj, welcome to this nonsense and unfair world we all are living in :D :D :D
BTW: I hope your projects are going well. |
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| Bgt |
If you have a psu(smps) with KEMA label on it(in NL) you're safe. They are only allowed to have this if it complies to the KEMA(like the German TUFF)isolation rules = min. 3KV isolation from mains to chassis or any touchable metal part.
I opened a lot of stuff in my house in all those years to see if there is sufficient isolation on the 2 pin mains psu's but in general thats OK. The only sad thing I often see in the small psu's(switched) is the 2.2nF capacitor from MAINS IN to secundary DC 0V. I always take this out. 8mm creepage on the PCB is ok as is the double choke transformers isolation.
The KEMA has a test station in China also.
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| Ouroboros |
If you take that cap out, it's highly likely that the PSU will no longer meet the conducted-noise emissions requirements. I've designed three off-line SMPSUs in the past 4 years that have gone into equipment that had to be fully EMC tested, and in all cases, meeting the conducted noise emission and susceptibility proved to be hard. Admitedly, it doesn't help that the company I design for always designs equipment to meet the Class-B limits for emissions, and the Class-A limits for susceptibility. (This combination makes it hardest for us for both!).
Meeting the EN60950 safety requirements is trivial compared with the EMC, especially now that EN60950-compliant triple-insulated wire is available to ease the isolation-barrier problems on the transformer bobbin. |
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| Bgt |
toroid or normal E shaped hf transformers with 2 isolated bobbins are very safe for the smps's. Especially for the small switched mode power supplies you use for phones etc. They hardly produce any EMC.
For big smps's its much harder to meet the EMC specs. |
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| Genomerics |
| quote: | Originally posted by Jan-Peter
You're telling me all the kind of stuff we are already highly aware about. So aware, in fact, that we're quite comfortable that we have the relevant variables under control. Given our understanding of the technical issues I understand your skepticism but I don't think I'm going to allay it simply by *talking* about it. So I suggest we leave it at this and let the product speak for itself when it's finished.
Cheers,
Jan-Peter |
Bosh bosh then.
If you want to plod in, as a sales bloke, and say your supply can be operated with or without and then have a blather about other stuff then 'all not well and good'.
If you want to back off and leave people wait for the proper answer then....
Bonus
DNA |
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| BWRX |
| The question of "when is it coming" has been loosely addressed so please refrain from off-topic arguing/speculation over the safety/performance of a product that hasn't even been produced yet. |
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| Genomerics |
Blarp!!!!
Are you after some ******** of the week award?
The basic rules, sometime in the past, meant people were not allowed to discuss 'dangerous' off-line stuff....
And now I'm having a rag at Jan for not demonstrating basic knowledge about such things.
Good job we are having an 'off topic' argument/speculation about the safety of his product before he has produced it.
He might produce something safe as a result.
Numpty.
DNA |
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| BWRX |
DNA, of course the "basic rules" still apply but this thread is about a commercial product not a DIY designed and built project. There's hardly the same risk factor involved.
Further, Jan-Peter posted to answer the questions of others, not to sell his products. By all means discuss the importance of double insulation, EMC requirements, creepage, etc. but refrain from personal attacks. |
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| soongsc |
| quote: | Originally posted by Jan-Peter
Let's wait till our SMPS are availble.
Then everyboday may give all comments what they wants!
JP |
Please do not ignor the transient capabilities. |
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| Guido Tent |
| quote: | Originally posted by Bgt
The only sad thing I often see in the small psu's(switched) is the 2.2nF capacitor from MAINS IN to secundary DC 0V. I always take this out.
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in that case I am pretty sure the RF radition exceeds the CE limits
that cap is placed for a reason, don't remove it
best
=
Guido |
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| Genomerics |
| quote: | Originally posted by BWRX
DNA, of course the "basic rules" still apply but this thread is about a commercial product not a DIY designed and built project. There's hardly the same risk factor involved.
Further, Jan-Peter posted to answer the questions of others, not to sell his products. By all means discuss the importance of double insulation, EMC requirements, creepage, etc. but refrain from personal attacks. |
I don't know what mushrooms you are on but Jan was/is responding to a query about the availability of an off-line Hypex SMPS for use by DIY people.
Saying There's hardly the same risk factor involved. does not cover my sausage with mustard.
Saying but refrain from personal attacks is like saying I was having a go without reason.
Hows about you get lost and get your head straight?
In the mean time Jan might have got lost and will be sorting out the stuff in his SMPS that means DIY people can slot one in without killing themselves if they RTM, Spare F.
DNA |
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| BWRX |
DNA, I prefer beer but if I were on mushrooms I would have gotten them from you because you are on some of the best...
There is no argument that Jan was replying to a query about the availability of a Hypex SMPS. You were questioning the CONSTRUCTION of said SMPS which hasn't even been made available to the public. Where is the confusion?
You were having a go without reason. All Jan-Peter has presented so far is more or less marketing speak because they do not have a product that is ready to be released. There have been NO FORMAL SPECS published for said SMPS so there is no reason for you to attack him. Do you understand that?
Jan is not the one designing the SMPS, which was made clear from one of his previous posts. |
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| ekaerin |
Gentlemen, sorry for interrupting the speculations but if Jan-Peter is still
awake, I would like to know how much gain in efficiency one can get by
using sync-rectification at such high output voltages.
In my world synchronized rectification starts paying off at about 15V and below for "normal" currents. Things may have moved forward though.
"btw the company I work at, stoole a power guy from a company Hypex work with"
/ BR / Mattias |
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| ekaerin |
Jan Peter,
One thing that you could reveal about your supply is perhaps some physical dimensions.
Like maximum building height including clearance from bottom if it comes as a bare board.
Or will you enclose it just leaving the output terminals for access with an IEC inlet.
I'm dreaming of something I can fit into a 1U rack.
If you can say something about the dimensions, then people can start
plan their housings.
Regards / Mattias |
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| Jan-Peter |
| quote: | Originally posted by ekaerin
Jan Peter,
One thing that you could reveal about your supply is perhaps some physical dimensions.
Like maximum building height including clearance from bottom if it comes as a bare board.
Or will you enclose it just leaving the output terminals for access with an IEC inlet.
I'm dreaming of something I can fit into a 1U rack.
If you can say something about the dimensions, then people can start
plan their housings.
Regards / Mattias |
Hi,
We will receive next week our pre-production batch....finally.... ;)
The height will be so low it will defiantly fit in 1HE, that's our goal!
The clearance/creepage between primary and secondairy will be 6mm, you will not need an earth conenction. A two pins inlet without earth will be sufficient.
We expect to have the production quantities in stock in about....6-10 weeks.
The eff. will be pretty good, the PFC will also have an active clamp.
Regards,
Jan-Peter |
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| ekaerin |
Cant wait.....
Dcibel, thanks for preliminary data sheet.
It's pretty good to reach some 90% eff. with a single stage converter having wide input.
No choke on the output.......
I'm not familiar with the topology but I think the sync rectifiers may pay
off due to the high reverse blocking needed ???
Looking fwd to see all skeptical faces until my next amp starts deliver.
/:devilr: :devilr: :devilr: ;) / Mattias |
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| Eva |
Synchronous rectification increases efficiency, particularly at low currents and even for +/-50V output. The usual challenge is gate drive and the poor man's approach is to use a couple of auxiliary transformer windings, but this is usually at the expense of current peaks and increased EMI when primary switches turn on and rectifiers turn-off. True synchronous rectification requires active control and some logic that is seldom used due to cost constraints.
The single stage SMPS with PFC is actually a flyback with discontinuous input current (thus not easily scalable to high powers) and produces substantial 100Hz output ripple by design. |
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| ekaerin |
Hi Eva,
I can't really follow your reasoning regarding the efficiency gain at low
currents, but never mind.
Yes, the 100Hz ripple must be taken care of but essentially the primary
bulk has moved to the secondary. Although lower voltage / energy you only need the lytics on the secondary.
And just because the topology is boost derived I believe you could use
anything from flyback to some type of fullbridge.
The active clamp Jan Peter mentioned will give high currents circulating
and with a little luck you could use these to reach ZVS.
But as I said I'm not at all familiar with this type converter, just gut feelings.
/ Mattias |
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| Jan-Peter |
Hi,
-we do not use synchronize regulation.
- we do use an active clamp circuit, to reduce the primary losses and to keep the SMPS in continues mode.
- it's no problem that there is still a ripple voltage, anyhow it's half of a normal transformer with the same capacitors. And the UcD has a good PSRR, sofar the SMPS and UcD works very good together.
- to further reduce the ripple voltage everybody is free to add more capacitors external.
In this paper we have explained more about SMPS and Class-D amps;
http://www.hypex.nl/docs/allamps%20hypex%20layout.pdf
Regards,
Jan-Peter |
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| Eva |
Take a 100V MOSFET with .020 ohm Rds-on and compare the voltage drop across the body diode for 2A with the voltage drop across Rds-on for the same current. Now compare the same figures at 20A.
A PFC requires a bulk inductor and in the PSU design that I saw the only big inductor is the own (gapped) transformer. That's why it has to be a flyback.
There are other methods to get "automatic" PFC from a flyback without 100Hz ripple on the output. See figure 15 on TDA16846-2 datasheet:
http://www.infineon.com/cms/en/serv...112b41823ce24ed |
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| ekaerin |
Eva, I get it.
Unfortunately I have never used synchronized rectification although I have
considered it a few times.
The projects I usually work with don't have margins for "inventions".
That is, except for some bucks with Texas TPS40xxx controllers.
However nowadays there are ICs that may make it a bit easier to implement.
Regards / Mattias |
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| megajocke |
Eva, if you want to see some flyback insanity have a look at this lab power supply from HP:
http://cp.literature.agilent.com/li...f/5959-3344.pdf
They use a big asymmetric half bridge 1kW flyback :eek: to get constant power over a large part of the output voltage range. Didn't Labgruppen use flyback at some insane power level too? Does anyone know what primary connection they used? It feels like the leakage spike will be a big problem if not using active clamping or an asymmetric half bridge connection.
But I guess you were thinking of the discontinous input current (which is discontinous even in continous mode) causing filtering problems at higher powers for a flyback PFC? :) |
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| tvicol |
Jan-Peter,
Do you have an estimated price for 180VA and 360VA SMPS?
Regards,
Tibi |
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| domcheng |
Jan-Peter,
I am also interested in the SMPS you talked about. Please also email me the price indication. |
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| Eva |
| quote: | Originally posted by megajocke
Didn't Labgruppen use flyback at some insane power level too? Does anyone know what primary connection they used? It feels like the leakage spike will be a big problem if not using active clamping or an asymmetric half bridge connection.
But I guess you were thinking of the discontinous input current (which is discontinous even in continous mode) causing filtering problems at higher powers for a flyback PFC? :) |
You can make nice and simple active clamps with Power Integrations LNKxxx ICs. For example, you can take energy from a 580V "clamp" rail and return it to the 350V main rail. The "clamp" rail may be kept regulated exactly at 580V, just below IGBT/MOSFET breakdown. I'm using that approach in my high power PFC and high voltage class D circuits for ultimate efficiency.
Most of these ICs are intended for flyback operation, but there are some tricks to make them work in buck mode. Then no auxiliary transformer is required, only a few off-the-shelf axial inductors connected in series.
BTW: Yes, I was talking about high discontinous input currents in PFC requiring additional EMI filtering and causing unexpected transformer/inductor losses. |
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| Jan-Peter |
Price not yet fixed, but something about € 110,00-120,00.
Regards,
Jan-Peter |
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| Dag |
Do I understand this right. Is the Hypex SMPS not supressing the 100Hz??? Is it still the same (or half) as with a transformer??
My reason to use a SMPS was to get rid of the 100Hz and to be able to use small caps at the PS output (VCC for the amp). |
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| Jan-Peter |
It's better as a liniear transformer. You are free to add as much as you like extra capacitors on the output.
The UcD amp has a very good PSRR, it has no sense to design a SMPS with a very low rimple voltage at rated output power.
It's more importend to have the voltage regulated, so the amp will not run on too high voltage when you have a high mains voltage.
Jan-Peter |
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| domcheng |
Jan-Peter,
Do you have the technical specification of this PSU yet? Like output regulation, norminal power, peak power, etc? |
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| Dag |
Thanks for your answers Jan-Peter:
| quote: | Originally posted by Jan-Peter
It's better as a liniear transformer. You are free to add as much as you like extra capacitors on the output.
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Well, I wanted a very low noise and low ripple 0-~20kHz SMPS to be able to use small caps. I do not like big caps.
| quote: | Originally posted by Jan-Peter
The UcD amp has a very good PSRR, it has no sense to design a SMPS with a very low rimple voltage at rated output power.
[/B] |
I'm sure the SMPS+UcD will work well but even with high PSRR low PS noise/ripple is important...to me. I want to use a SMPS with analog amps.
| quote: | Originally posted by Jan-Peter
It's more importend to have the voltage regulated, so the amp will not run on too high voltage when you have a high mains voltage.
[/B] |
Yeah, good line and load regulation is good.
Good line/load regulation and low noise/ripple is excellent. :)
Will line/load regulation and noise/ripple be included in the final datasheet?
Is there a way to modify this design to remove the ripple??
Or can anyone recommend anything else? |
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| megajocke |
It is not possible to remove the ripple except by using much larger caps on the output or a post-regulator. But the ripple is much more benign with less high audio freqency components than the sawtoothy-triangle wave from a standard line freqency power supply. Unless the amp has really really poor PSRR it shouldn't really be a problem.
Eva: That's quite smart, it should have very low component count and size! When misused as buck regulators these should be able to push quite a bit more power than what they are rated for in the standard discontinous flyback circuit... :)
Are you using this in the PFC with a magnetic snubber? I remember a circuit you posted once with a secondary winding on the snubber inductor and some diodes for clamping. What's the benefeit of doing it with a clamping rail? Leakage inductance in snubber inductor? Or are you sharing it between PFC and amplifier? |
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| domcheng |
Jan-Peter,
What is the reason to put PFC in your SMPS? Is it a mandatory item from safety or environmental authorities? Otherwise the efficiency of the PSU must be lowered because of putting PFC there. Am I correct? |
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| Jan-Peter |
| quote: | Originally posted by domcheng
Jan-Peter,
What is the reason to put PFC in your SMPS? Is it a mandatory item from safety or environmental authorities? Otherwise the efficiency of the PSU must be lowered because of putting PFC there. Am I correct? |
The reason is to have an regulated output voltage in dependable of mains voltage. A nice side effect is that we do not need a 115V/230V switch anymore, the SMPS will keep the voltage stable between 90V and 250VAC.
Actually the PFC function is used to regulate the output voltage.
Jan-Peter |
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| domcheng |
Jan-Peter,
When I read through your spec, it stated 2x45 @ 6.67A. That means the SMPS is able to deliver +45V @ 6.67A and -45V @ 6.67A at the same time? That is calculated to 600W power supply power - that is massive and so excited!!! Is this the correct interpretation?Jan-Peter, |
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| Jan-Peter |
| quote: | Originally posted by domcheng
Jan-Peter,
When I read through your spec, it stated 2x45 @ 6.67A. That means the SMPS is able to deliver +45V @ 6.67A and -45V @ 6.67A at the same time? That is calculated to 600W power supply power - that is massive and so excited!!! Is this the correct interpretation?Jan-Peter, |
This is wrong, thank you bringin this up!
Tha datasheet is also prelimenary..... ;)
Jan-Peter |
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| Jan-Peter |
| quote: | Originally posted by domcheng
Jan-Peter,
When I read through your spec, it stated 2x45 @ 6.67A. That means the SMPS is able to deliver +45V @ 6.67A and -45V @ 6.67A at the same time? That is calculated to 600W power supply power - that is massive and so excited!!! Is this the correct interpretation?Jan-Peter, |
Hi,
indeed the datasheet is not fully correct. But the SMPS can delivers his full power on one rail if the load ask for this. But the maximum power is limted to 180W.
We will have cleared this out in the datasheet soon.
Regards,
Jan-Peter |
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| Douwe01nl |
Hi Jan-Peter,
I'm thinking of building a UcD-amp to replace my Arcam A90 (monitors: PMC-OB1). A few questions:
- when will smps for UcD400 and 700 be available, and what will be the price?
- Do i need softstart when using smps?
- Which UcD (180/400/700) has best audiophile quality for use in livingroom?
Thanks,
D |
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| Jan-Peter |
| quote: | Originally posted by Douwe01nl
Hi Jan-Peter,
I'm thinking of building a UcD-amp to replace my Arcam A90 (monitors: PMC-OB1). A few questions:
- when will smps for UcD400 and 700 be available, and what will be the price?
- Do i need softstart when using smps?
- Which UcD (180/400/700) has best audiophile quality for use in livingroom?
Thanks,
D |
Hi Douwe,
There are now prices yet avalaible for an SMPS UcD400 or even UcD700. we have just started with the design of the 360W SMPS, the >1kW is scheduld for later this year.
You will not need a soft start anymore.
Alle amps has more of less the same sonic signature, altough some customers claims the UcD700HG with HxR do sound very, very good.
Regards,
Jan-Peter |
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| peterhenk |
Hi Jan Peter,
How much longer do we have to wait??
Will you sell a set for monoblocks with all connectors etc?
Regards
Peter |
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| Jan-Peter |
| quote: | Originally posted by peterhenk
Hi Jan Peter,
How much longer do we have to wait??
Will you sell a set for monoblocks with all connectors etc?
Regards
Peter |
Hi Peter,
We have received our pre-production batch of 30 pcs and I can say that the SMPS is performing very well!
Nice stable, independable of the mains voltage you will have a constant output voltage. Very low EMI, it will meet the official standard with a nice margin.
We still have to do a couple of more test, but it seems that we can go in production in about 7-10 days!
So...if everything goes as planned we will have the 180W SMPS on stock in about 6 weeks.
Price will be € 125,00 ex. VAT and ex. works.
Many thanks to all our customers for their patience.... :angel: :angel: :angel:
Next week I will post some pictures.
Regards,
Jan-Peter |
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| sek |
Hi Jan-Peter et al,
that's good news for everyone waiting. ;)
The price seems reasonable as an introduction (considering the demand...).
But I'm actually in need of the 400W and 1kW (or whatever higher power) versions. :(
Can you estimate them being in schedule for this 'season' (i.e. summer)?
Thanks,
Sebastian. |
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| Jan-Peter |
| quote: | Originally posted by sek
Hi Jan-Peter et al,
that's good news for everyone waiting. ;)
The price seems reasonable as an introduction (considering the demand...).
But I'm actually in need of the 400W and 1kW (or whatever higher power) versions. :(
Can you estimate them being in schedule for this 'season' (i.e. summer)?
Thanks,
Sebastian. |
We have started with desiging the 360W version, it's a dual 180W SMPS transformer. If everything works as we hope, we will have this version soon in production. Probably in 3-4 months???
The more powerfull version is schedulded for after the 360W version.
If you like to talk in 'seasons' it will be not earlier as winter 2008....
Jan-Peter |
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| sek |
That's good to hear. It would mean a medium power solution (to support UCD400s) this year.
And I take it that two combined 180W SMPS would work alike in case I can't wait that long. ;)
Thanks for your reply, Jan-Peter.
Cheers,
Sebastian. |
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| Jan-Peter |
| quote: | Originally posted by sek
That's good to hear. It would mean a medium power solution (to support UCD400s) this year.
And I take it that two combined 180W SMPS would work alike in case I can't wait that long. ;)
Thanks for your reply, Jan-Peter.
Cheers,
Sebastian. |
Yes, you can use two SMPS in parallel, or in series. All is possible.... ;) |
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| jaybee |
| bump - so how's this coming along? Anxiously awaiting! Credit card at the ready! |
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| Jan-Peter |
We are working on it!!
However we are now VERY close to put the SMPS in production.
This week we have checked if it will pass the CE, so foar this is no problem at all.
The SMPS is extremely stable, now full power at 20Hz at 120V line voltage (180W). Output voltage stays very stable, compared with a liniear transformer + power supply much less voltage drop, less ripple.
You can turn the variac from 120VAC to 250VAC output voltage stays 2 x 45VDC. The efficiency is 81%, perhaps we can slightly improve this, the efficience of a 160VA transformer + power supply is 90%.
With a minor modification the pre-production batch is so stable it could be sold.... ;)
Anyway....next week we will order everything for the production, and i expect to have these in stock in about 4 weeks now!
Do have some patience :angel: :angel: :angel:
Regards,
Jan-Peter |
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| ackcheng |
Jan-Peter,
Do you have more information on the voltage drop and the amount of ripples? |
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| Jan-Peter |
| quote: | Originally posted by ackcheng
Jan-Peter,
Do you have more information on the voltage drop and the amount of ripples? |
I will post next week a couple of pictures, SMPS and liniear power supply.
Jan-Peter |
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| hansherbert |
Hi Jan-Peter,
i am looking forward for the SMPS for my UCD180HG-HXF. I want to ask You, if it will sound better using the HXF-regulators, or using the +/-12V Supply from the SMPS.
best regards
Thomas |
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| Eva |
| 81% efficiency is quite poor, particularly for a single stage converter, it's 36W losses for 180W output... |
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| ntropy |
| To me the low idle losses of 2W (according to the datasheet) are more important than extremely high efficiency since I dont think I will listen at full power whole time... I'm looking forward to see the SMPS-180 in action :-) |
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| Pafi |
| quote: | | 81% efficiency is quite poor, particularly for a single stage converter, |
| quote: | | To me the low idle losses of 2W (according to the datasheet) are more important |
I agree with both of you! :-)
But the next, higher power SMPS should have significantly higher efficiency! |
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| Grifondoro |
| quote: | Originally posted by Jan-Peter
I will post next week a couple of pictures, SMPS and liniear power supply.
Jan-Peter |
I can imagine you are very busy working on this project, but I'm very impatient regarding this project!
Any news?
Cheers,
Riccardo |
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| Javin5 |
The SMPS180 is now on the Hypex Website. You can get the PDF at
www.hypex.nl/docs/smps180.pdf
The lead time is 4 - 6 weeks. They also have some new OEM-UcD-modules. |
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| classdphile |
| quote: | Originally posted by Javin5
The SMPS180 is now on the Hypex Website. You can get the PDF at
www.hypex.nl/docs/smps180.pdf
The lead time is 4 - 6 weeks. They also have some new OEM-UcD-modules. |
I'm sure the lead time will be much shorter once they have them in stock ;)
Those OEM modules aren't new at all. Bryston uses the 180 version. Either way they are not for us.
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| Jan-Peter |
Hello,
we are now very close to release the SMPS 180W, finally.... ;)
Hereby already some pictures of the first production sample;
Later this week we will release the full datasheet and add the product in our webshop.... :angel:
Best regards,
Jan-Peter |
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| avr300 |
Nice, very nice.
What are we to expect ? First sonic impression ? |
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| Jan-Peter |
Hi,
We have fist concentrate our selves onto a rocket stable SMPS design, the design is a single flyback converer included with a PFC.
The SMPS is build according to a Class-2 safety standard. And the used Y-capacitors are 2x470pF only!
Description
The SMPS180 Power Supply module is a high efficiency switch mode power supply specially designed to be used in combination with our range of UcD™ amplifier modules. Key features are high
efficiency over the entire load range, universal input voltage range (100 – 250V 50/60Hz), near unity Power Factor, low weight and very low radiated and conducted EMI. The SMPS180 also features an advanced overcurrent protection which in case of temporary overload simply reduces the output voltage, only when the overload condition remains for a longer time the supply will enter hiccup mode until the overload condition disappears. This feature in combination with the advanced feedback topology and large secondary buffer elcaps leads to the capability of delivering high peak power to the connected amplifier. The SMPS180 includes also an auxiliary isolated ±12V supply and a control circuit directly interfacing with our range of UcD™ amplifier modules. Further the SMPS can be on-off controlled from the secondary side or put in a latched off condition in case of serious fault conditions on the secondary side load. Great care has been taken to optimise the power stage and magnetics in order to achieve lowest EMI signature possible.
We are happy with the sonic result so far, we leave it to the customers to judge how good it's compared to other SMPS what are also special designed for audio amplifiers.
Regards,
Jan-Peter |
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| soongsc |
| quote: | Originally posted by Jan-Peter
Hi,
...
We are happy with the sonic result so far, we leave it to the customers to judge how good it's compared to other SMPS what are also special designed for audio amplifiers.
Regards,
Jan-Peter |
I think many would like to know what difference can you hear compared against your analog power supplies based on the parts you supply.
I had my eyes on this and wonder if the voltag can be lowered by the user. |
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| Jan-Peter |
| quote: | Originally posted by soongsc
I think many would like to know what difference can you hear compared against your analog power supplies based on the parts you supply. |
We leave this to the customer to judge. For the moment we have concentrate our selves to design a very well engineerd SMPS.
| quote: | Originally posted by soongsc
I had my eyes on this and wonder if the voltag can be lowered by the user. |
Yes, you can reduce the voltage, range will be 2x35V to 2x45V.
Regards,
Jan-Peter |
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