| Geoff H |
Hello everyone.
Over the past week, there appears to be more than just a bit of interest in Altec Lansing. You know, the real ones.
We have had a member selling some. (there was more in that thread after they were sold than before) A member building a system I thought may have been modelled on an Altec, enquiries about cabinets, same raving, and why not! Even a mod got entangled in a hijack. No names.
So how about a thread for Altec Lansing? It can cover anything you want in the way of their speaker range. Cabinets, mods, pictures, data sheets. Even experiences. It could include the MM stuff (they are good for what they are) It doesn't have to compete with Lansing Heratage, however it could compliment it.
For those not fortunate enough to have heard these speakers, most of us that have, even in the long distant past, do not forget the sound. And many will try to emulate it.
So how about it? Show us your Altecs, share the pleasure and the dramas. Lets show the current manufactures some real magnets, cones and horns.
Geoff |
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| Charles |
... I'm just listening to my mono Voice.
I love the sound.
I have 416 bass, 808 HF driver with a radian replacement diaphragm.
Clicke here and scroll down for a pic:
http://www.mother-of-tone.com/mother.htm
I operate this Voice with a 6dB crossover, just a coil and a cap. Many of the more proficient Altec owners have complex crossies, but I happen to enjoy the simpler sound ;)
Take a look at the spruce horn. This is the biggest improvement to the Voice that I can ever imagine.
I have a 2nd pair of original voices with aluminium horns and I keep the alu horns there, just to switch back and forth and realize how good the spruce horn sounds in comparison.
Fun ...
Charles :) |
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| BAM |
| Does anyone know how the new limited-edition A7s sound compared to the originals? |
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| panomaniac |
OK Geoff, I'll play.
Here is a system that I've posted before in this forum. It's the reference system at the "Revue du Son" magazine in Paris. And I helped built it. The system is owned by Mr. Jean Hiraga. These are my favorite speakers of all time. Never heard any other speaker of any size, shape, technology or vintage that sounds more like real live music than these.
Not truly an A7, because of the 15 cell Altec horn on top. The horn is driven by a big 1950's vintage Westrex compression driver. The British version of the Altec 288 - AFAIK. The 15" woofer is now a Westrex basket with EV cone. When I ran them I think it was Altec 515s in the box. Tweeter is JBL2404. .
About 20 years ago I rebuilt these boxes for Mr. Hiraga as a trade for borrowing them for awhile. I used them as an "Audiophile P.A." for jazz and other stuff. Simple passive filter - I didn’t use a tweeter on the road. Never seemed to need it.
The bass box was stock A7 or A5 in not very thick plywood. I recovered all the walls with Nantex plywood - the hardest, densest damn wood I've ever seen! Almost impossible to cut, drill, sand. Internal bracing was added from the same Nantex and I tarred the back of the bass horn flare. 100% wool felt for damping. Vent was reduced in size.
Why do I love them so much? Because they sound so "real." They have no box sound at all, and with tons of dynamics. Imaging is superb – mind blowing. Amazing really, what is on even the most humble CD. These speakers put it right out there for you.
I've heard a few systems (sometimes the same day) with more micro detail, more highs, more lows - even a bigger image than these. But nothing sounds more true to life. It's really like the musicians are right there, and there, and over there. Not “almost”, not “close your eyes and imagine” - they are right there. You can point to them. And they simply sound real.
These speakers also show any change in the signal path. Amps, CD player, preamp, turntable, etc. But they always sounded great, not matter what amp I drove them with.
If I had mine own dedicated listening room, this is what I would have. No doubt about it. Funny thing is, it took me a long time to convince Hiraga and the rest of the crew how good they really are. But 20 years later they are still going strong. Makes me happy. :D |
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| Geoff H |
panomaniac, you play so well! Looking at those 15 cells, and thinking about the ability of the 511, I can almost hear them. That's what I was getting at earlier. You just don't forget that sound. I have only heard one Altec horn in the last 20 years, a dual concentric 15" with the 3000 type horn, which I thought was a 515. Your reference to the 515 could have been the 604. And I could be wrong.
I found that above the stage in a venue not far from here, probably used for movies. The owner didn't know it was there, let alone what it was. And not far away was a Williamson amp. I just had to fire it up didn't I, then the owner renegged on giving it to me.
Prior to that, it was Barcelonas, Valencias, Santanas and A7s, being compared to Tannoys, Bard Monitors and a few JBLs. I chose the bass driver from the Barcelona, the 411, as a starting point for my first real system. I had outgrown Peerless, SEAS, Philips, and a few others.
Edit: Just had another look at those horns, and laughed at my plastic TLs. Terry is right, BIG is better. |
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| Zen Mod |
| quote: | Originally posted by Charles
... I'm just listening to my mono Voice.
I love the sound.
I have 416 bass, 808 HF driver with a radian replacement diaphragm.
Clicke here and scroll down for a pic:
http://www.mother-of-tone.com/mother.htm
I operate this Voice with a 6dB crossover, just a coil and a cap. Many of the more proficient Altec owners have complex crossies, but I happen to enjoy the simpler sound ;)
Take a look at the spruce horn. This is the biggest improvement to the Voice that I can ever imagine.
I have a 2nd pair of original voices with aluminium horns and I keep the alu horns there, just to switch back and forth and realize how good the spruce horn sounds in comparison.
Fun ...
Charles :) |
Charles,can you share dimensions of your spruce horn?
I like your non-scientific approach in this case ;) |
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| kec |
Nice pics Pano. Ahhh... the memories...
As a former Altec employee (1978-1982) I have a real fondness for the Altec sound and their products. This was my first job right out of high school. I worked on the speaker/driver production lines and could do every phase of building drivers - which is why I eventually became a lead person. I guess this is where I got my initial speaker building bug from, and have been building speakers ever since. This is, without a doubt the most rewarding (and fun) job I've ever had. I learned so much, not only about building, but about design and testing. A lot of my friends there were techs, so I was able to learn from them.
We built all the pro/commercial drivers as well as the amplifiers at the Anaheim plant and most of the speaker cabinets and consumer products/speakers were built at the Oklahoma facility.
One of my fondest memories was repairing over 100 of Pink Floyd's speakers (model 421A - yes!, still remember the model). This was done during the Wall tour when they were at the Los Angeles Coliseum. The drivers were somehow damgaged when the "Wall" fell down. Next day, pallets of 421A's entered the facility :D
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v521/kecline/Altec/Altec_Building.jpg?t=1164986500
-Ken |
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| Geoff H |
Yes Charles, please do. It looks to be a driver mounted in the corner of 3 walls, same effect as placing a speaker in the corner of a room.
That is an interesting site of yours. We have similar test gear! Ears.
Geoff. |
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| Charles |
| quote: | Originally posted by Zen Mod
Charles,can you share dimensions of your spruce horn?
I like your non-scientific approach in this case ;) |
| quote: | Originally posted by Geoff H
Yes Charles, please do. It looks to be a driver mounted in the corner of 3 walls, same effect as placing a speaker in the corner of a room.
That is an interesting site of yours. We have similar test gear! Ears.
Geoff. |
We have only 40cm boards in our local DIY store, so the size was fixed :)
Here is a pdf file of what I wanted it to look like first place:
http://www.altmann.haan.de/z_pics/horn_400mm.pdf
Yes, I wanted it to be square, and after I had sawed the pieces, I found out that you need to cut the borders at very special angle to make it all fit.
That was too much work for the afternoon, so it became kind of a triangular horn.
Here's another pic of the actual outcome:
The driver is attached to the wood block at the end of the horn ...
I lacquered the complete horn with colophony dissolved in turpentine.
What happened to the other side piece ?
I now use it as a base for soldering ;)
Charles :) |
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| Zen Mod |
this will be great thread!!
tnx Charles ;) |
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| GM |
Greets!
When it's working, the Altec User's Forum is the place to be for all things Altec-Lansing (the original): http://www.hostboard.com/cgi-bin/ul...b=forum&f=3729, but it's been down for days now and the owner hasn't responded to my email, so.............
Anyway, the early 'new' VOT components were manufactured by Great Plains Audio by ex-Altec personnel/OEM tooling, so should sound the same as any later ceramic motored speakers. It's my understanding that they're made in Chi-Town now, so don't have a clue about these. Frankly, I doubt they've sold any since you can buy used and have them refurbed for less $$.
A5, A7, 1208, etc., series all used the same basic 825 (plywood) or 828 (MDF) cab depending on the year manufactured, though recently I found out there were some mixed plywood/MDF cabs built during the transition, so the differences were all in the component compliment, with a A5 having the 515 series woofer/large format horn, A7 = 416 series woofer/small format horn, and 1208, etc., series = 421 M.I. series woofer/small format horn. Then there's the same bass cab combos except with the later Mantaray series large/small format horns.
All that's left of my system are a pair of dual 515B 'sub' ~20 ft^3 cabs with mildly tweaked 511A/802D horns perched on top:
GM |
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| geaugafletcher |
I found a pair of Heathkit AS-101s (a copy of the model 846A Altec Valencia) for $30 at a thrift store. Blown tweeters, but a trip to Great Plains Audio solved that problem. I feel about them the way Panomaniac feels about his Altecs. Such reality and magic about them, regardless of their shortcomings.
I have plans to build new cabinets for them - something along the lines of 46" tall, 21" wide and perhaps 22" deep. Ported, tuned to ... er, can't remember offhand, but somewhere around 35hz. They should be magnificent when completed. :)
The 15" woofers are 416-8As and the tweeters are 806s paired with 811 horns. |
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| Zen Mod |
not exactly Altec material,but more addendum to Westrex history....
here are few pictures of ancient compression drivers ,mounted originally on 811b horns ; scan of picture (from old cinema handbook) of huge Iskra two way cinema box can be seen clickin' on my www button and lookin' for cinema monoblocks page.......
pictures will tell you everything;interesting is that I didn't found anything on web related to this drivers......
I still have pair of 811B....mebbe one day I'll make pic or two for our pleasure ;)
unfortunately,several years ago I didn't succeed in ,say,scavenging pair of 515s......guy responsible for trade never return even truckload of goodies given from my side,as my part of trade ;(
never mind......I have more than few opportunities to hear A7 ,even if just in PA environment; but- reading all Altec related info I can get during the years lead finally to my today's music recreating approach;
illustration of that can be seen on last pic after this post ;)
sorry for off topic :devilr: |
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| Zen Mod |
more off topic-regarding Alnico - even small two way box on top of big one -both units are alnicos ;)
ancient ITT boxes,when Scaaning was OEM contractor for them .......
nice find ;)
this one is last off topic pic from me .........hehe |
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| Geoff H |
Hi Gents. As Zen Mod said, this will be a great thread. Actually, it will become whatever you collectively want.
My interest in sound repro started when I was 9 years old. My father traded his Pye Black Box for a pair of Wharfedales, a Pioneer SMB131?
a Labcraft t/t and a Revox G36 in 1964. Ausie readers will realise he had probably been to Encel Electronics.
I started bringing home old console style radio-grams, and getting them to work. Most of these had a 8 to 12 inch ElectroDynamic Speakers on an open back enclosure. For younger readers, these speakers had no permanent magnet. The magnetic field was created from a huge winding which doubled as the HT choke. Better units had a hum bucking coil, fed from the heater supply, to cancel 100 cycle ripple in the field. And they sounded pretty good, and some sounded better than others.
Most of these radios were of similar design, using 6V6 se amps, so the question was why. Been looking for answers since.
A friend of mine started a speaker building business, and then bought a shop to sell his goods asked me down to hear some new stock he had along side his own models. I think it was the Altec Model 19 he demoed first. Well I thought it was nice, but didn't grab me. I had built several 3 way systems based on several European drivers, but soon got bored with them. But the bigger models should be in next week. I had already wandered the Hi-Fi streets in search of something better, and was beginning to feel it was a hyped up industry set up to extract as much money from you in the search.
In the meantime, I had another listen to the Tannoy Monitors, as they seemed to be my preference. Back at my friends shop, I listened to a pair Santanas. Now we were getting somewhere. Was it just coincidental that Carlos is still one of my favorite musos, or was some one playing games. Danny from Rank Industries arrived,
and had a bit of a chat. Next, a pair of Barcelonas were brought to life, and I could buy the drivers separately.
A week later, I was the proud owner of a pair of these. |
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| Cal Weldon |
| A good many of you will have seen these before. This is my outdoor set-up. I am currently upgrading the A7 boxes to a 3 way with the existing 511 horn for the mid and an 811 on top for the highs. I will post the pics when done. Hopefully the drivers will arrive next week. |
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| Geoff H |
Zen Mod, wasn't Westrex Western Electrics? And Western Electrics a division of the Altec Corporation or LTV?
I don't think your off topic. Talk about University and JBL if you wish, they're all related. Just because Ling and JB drew a line in the sand doesn't mean we have to.
Edit:
Hi Cal, I like your interpretation of a HT 5.1. Is the other truck tied up in a traffic jam?
Geoff |
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| panomaniac |
Hey GM.
The whole Hostboard.com site seems to be down, so that includes the Altec board. I've gotten a number of emails asking about it. Seems no one can get thru. :( |
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| panomaniac |
Geoff,
Yes Western Electric gave birth to Altec "All Technical Products." It was called Westrex in the U.K.
I've had my eye on the Altec 411. The "Solid State" driver. Less efficient than the other drivers, but maybe more low end in a reasonable size box.
I think Cal has bragging right as "Speaker King" :)
And Ken (KEC) has the best bragging rights of all. He actually worked at Altec and built drivers! Hooray! You rule, Ken! :worship:
Hey Cal. So you want to do 511 mids and 811 highs? That's an odd idea. Might sound pretty cool! Let us know how it works out.
As for the sound of the Altec 1505 multicells - they are amazing. All the good qualities you find in the smaller horns, with none of the bad. And they sound - well... BIG. Guess they go a long way to imparting that "this is real" sound. They just don't sound like a speaker at all. They sound like music.
GM. Those 20 foot double 515 cabs ought to be fantastic. I used to listen to a similar setup. The Onken W cabinet with dual 515s. Very impressive. Big super clean bass. |
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| Zen Mod |
| quote: | Originally posted by Geoff H
Zen Mod, wasn't Westrex Western Electrics? And Western Electrics a division of the Altec Corporation or LTV?
I don't think your off topic. Talk about University and JBL if you wish, they're all related. Just because Ling and JB drew a line in the sand doesn't mean we have to.
............................
Geoff |
:D
yes,I know that ........ Western Electric,Western Electric for export,All Tecnicall Division....... ;)
I have all issues of Sound Practices,if nothing else ;)
btw.
there it is (from my little web place) :
and real picture (taken from one Croatian friend),but pretty "cannibalized" -with something newer horn and newer bass unit ........
Iskra boxes are often delivered with origigi Westrex cinema x-overs |
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| phn |
| quote: | Originally posted by Geoff H
Zen Mod, wasn't Westrex Western Electrics? And Western Electrics a division of the Altec Corporation or LTV?
Geoff |
Westrex=WE=Altec, indeed. I don't know the ins and outs, though.
The fabled 755A FR driver was introduced by WE in 1940 and later made by Altec. Let the (Japanese) fanatics buy the WE labeled 755A drivers. By any event, the Altec labeled ones will not be inferior. |
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| vuki |
Here is my 2-way Altec. 416-8c in bass-reflex enclosure and 288k-8 (with Greatplains aluminium dias) with JM LeCleach horn.
Sounds wonderfull ;)
I also have 902-8 with round tractrix and 414z waiting for the box. :( |
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| panomaniac |
Cool!
Is that gold leaf on the horn? |
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| Geoff H |
panomaniac, the 411's are a bit down on sensitivity. Some specs quote
91 dB others 93 db at 4 feet. Some quote fs at 15hz, others 18hz.
The sheets that came with mine say 18hz and pencilled in 93db/1w/1m
113db/100w/1m.
In a 5 cub foot cab, they do go down to 20. It must be airtight. With up to 150 cubic inches of cone dissplacement, leaks will hiss. And you do have to pay attention to tone arm / cartridge resonance, and lubricate spindle bearings regularly. And yes, smooth, and retain that lower midrange pressence, without giving the girls that "on steroids" feel. And Altec's power rating is conservative at 60w. Mine never complained with 100+ watts, going to almost clipping. That was on a dance floor. Yes, I know, wrong application, but they did the job, and no wife factor.
The 30904 network had a shelving attenuator to pull the midrange down, effectively extending the upper treble.
They still need a large room, even with a different top end. I'll explain the evolution of my top end later.
Geoff |
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| Zen Mod |
| quote: | Originally posted by vuki
Here is my 2-way Altec. 416-8c in bass-reflex enclosure and 288k-8 (with Greatplains aluminium dias) with JM LeCleach horn.
Sounds wonderfull ;)
I also have 902-8 with round tractrix and 414z waiting for the box. :( |
and tnx to colour this pair of boxes have high WAF........?!?
:clown:
this days I'll try to locate one or few origigi EZ1606 Iskra bass drivers....to mate with one i have
when refurbished ( with appropriate spider and surround , along with phase plug !) they have all Altec qualities ,as speed and enormous freq response; I heard once pair of them ,made like that - they needed just compression driver as helper,crossed just with one VitQ at some 16K
crossing my fingers ........ |
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| GM |
| quote: | Originally posted by Cal Weldon
I am currently upgrading the A7 boxes to a 3 way with the existing 511 horn for the mid and an 811 on top for the highs. |
Greets!
FWIW, you may want to try stacked 511s EQ'd flat. I use to do this for band/PA and it worked really well. A511/811 stack won't have as good a pattern over as wide a BW.
GM |
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| jeff mai |
These Altecs were my babies. Had to sell them when I moved to Australia. :bawling:
They make 1505Bs seem positively tiny. These multicells are absolutely the best midrange I've ever heard. Bigger is always better!
I used enormous RCA manufactured bass bins with these and not Altec, so they're off topic. |
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| RobWells |
I have a pair of 511B's waiting till next year for drivers:up:
Rob. |
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| panomaniac |
| quote: | Originally posted by jeff mai
These Altecs were my babies. |
Ah yes, the 18 cell horns. Marvelous. And Big.
Didn't we exchange emails a year or so ago, Jeff? From over on AA. I don't think I know anyone else who ran 1803s for HiFi. What driver did you use?
Had to sell 'em to moved to Oz??? Why? They have more room than they know what to do with down there. |
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| Zen Mod |
once I just saw 8-cell (not 18) ..........just one.......they aren't so frequent in my part of Europe (World,whatever)
boy ,what a drool......I feel saliva coming even now,after all this yrs messing with more or less good spks.......
what I can say-Altec......not just a sound - it's passion......... |
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| Zen Mod |
Mods -what is with my missing post?
I know that is sent to texas....
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/show...417#post1070417
re-read please and put it back;
it isn't related to preceding tomtt's post in any way,especially because is posted before his last editing.
I demand explanation what is the reason. |
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| tomtt |
| apology , for whatever went wrong here |
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| Cameron Glendin |
I love Altec too, over the past 15 years I have found myself restoring quite a few A4s and A7s in cinemas around sydney. My favorite find was a former CINERAMA modified multicell horn, lead lined and sand filled, It sounded amazing, if you have a standard one I do suggest you modify yours, you would never regret it!!!
Personally I would be carefull of running Altecs to loud as apparently a few theatres burnt down in america when the original valve amps were replaced with hi power IC ones:bigeyes: . They are plenty loud enough at 60 w:D
Other thing worth trying
open cell foam inside the box instead of fiberglass, pointy style (matress underlay) placed directly behind the woofers helps break up the standing waves that reflect back through the cone.
anyway enjoy
:)
anyone know how much a couple of original A4 crossovers are worth, I have some altec horns and compression drivers lying around ect |
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| Brett |
I don't have any Altec speakers per se, but I used to use a 511 on top of a JBL 15 for my bass guitar rehearsal rig.
Now it's just stting unused in storage until someone buys it. |
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| Cal Weldon |
| quote: | Originally posted by GM
A511/811 stack |
Hi Mr M,
I was hoping we might see you here. I agree with your thoughts but...
This is really just something to scratch an itch or repair a wound, I'm not sure. I haven't built anything to speak of recently and have the 811's sitting on the shelf gathering dust. The darn 825 cabinets are in the garage with me while I work so I keep looking at them. Again and again I stare at them. And then it hits me, the horn that is, it falls off the shelf right onto my head.
I had a vision. I knew what I had to do.
One thing led to another and the mids were on their way. What can I say? I don't try and suppress the signs, I simply go with them.
I have lined up the flanges on a double slotted board with about 1/2" between them and supported the backs. Looks pretty good.
My name is Cal and I'm a speakerholic. |
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| vuki |
| quote: | Originally posted by panomaniac
Cool!
Is that gold leaf on the horn? |
Sure, that's gold leaf :)
| quote: | Originally posted by Zen Mod
and tnx to colour this pair of boxes have high WAF........?!?
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Yes, to my surprise, the WAF is way above average. That's the first speaker I have that gets wows from the female visitors. :D
The version with 902 and tractrix horn wasn't accepted so well :( |
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| Geoff H |
"Had to sell 'em to moved to Oz??? Why? They have more room than they know what to do with down there."
I have 95 acres out the back door. And no big Altecs running at the moment. I wonder if I could borrow Cals on New Years Eve.
I mentioned Model Nineteens some time earlier today, when I should have said model 9's. The 19s weren't here then.
You big horn guys have frightened the home models, so I'll break the ice with these Atlantics. I haven't much info on them. They are similar to the Model 1s. These were made April 81. The bass driver is similar to the 755. The magnet is smaller, and the cone slightly different.
I have been looking for the original data sheet, without joy. I got these for nothing, with a NAD Model 120 Tuner amp thrown in. That's good value. |
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| fred76 |
Cool thread guys...:)
I have some questions wrt Onken Petite for Altec 414. I wonder if there are other mods and changes to it that could be implemented besides bracing, damping, and driver magnet support. Or maybe a complete Jensen/Onken re-design (cab volume and ports) for 'better' response?
http://ndaviden.club.fr/plancaisse/onken-414.html
Anyways, if anyone here's selling a pair of 414 woofers in VG condition pls PM me. GPA refurbed would be a nice too. Thanks.
BTW, does anyone know how Pascalite diaphs sounds like on those 299 drivers? GM mentiond once that the Symbiotik were harsh sounding compared to the Aluminum ones.
fred |
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| GM |
| quote: | Originally posted by panomaniac
Yes Western Electric gave birth to Altec "All Technical Products." It was called Westrex in the U.K.
GM. Those 20 foot double 515 cabs ought to be fantastic. I used to listen to a similar setup. The Onken W cabinet with dual 515s. Very impressive. Big super clean bass. |
Greets!
Basic history: http://www.audioheritage.org/html/h.../altec-1963.htm
Yeah, the 411 was the first of the true sub drivers available around here and I didn't waste any time stuffing a couple in the bottom of my old homebrew 825 cabs I'd sold to my neighbor for his basement rig and our mutual amusement for the few tapes available with real LF on them. Two of them in ~13.5 ft^3 total made almost as much bass as my four 515Bs/~40 ft^3! subs. The trade-off though was that the 411 didn't even come close to having the efficiency/resolution/clarity of the 515s, so for me the choice was clear, but where space was at a premium and a relatively high XO point was required,this was my driver of choice. Anyway, FWIW these very early ones were only ~92 dB/2.83 V/4 ft according to the distributor's measurements IIRC, so would be a bit more at 1 m.
I haven't had the pleasure of auditioning an Onken W, but in simming them loaded with my 515B's measured specs it's not as tonally balanced/extended as mine for a given room/positioning, but then it's smaller/tuned higher, so will have more subjective 'slam', especially on vinyl playback, but as always it boils down to personal preference and/or what overall preformance is required for the app. Anyway, it sims a fine alignment/layout for a 500 Hz/~90 deg horizontal response XO point, so I have no doubt it was/is indeed impressive!
GM
P.S. I see the Altec forum came back on-line/active while I was typing this........... |
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| Geoff H |
I agree with GM on his observations re the 411. I have only compared them to the 416. The 411 was my choice as I felt they were more suited to a home enviroment.
The only complaint I have with them is the foam surround. Cloth may have been a better choice. I remember the day they fell apart. But I had 18 years out of them.
I have often thought of using a 411 as a sub, but 2 would satisfy the pipe organ lovers. My father looked amazed when I played a St Saen's? Organ Concerto off the vinyl.
But they don't seem to project the lower male voice and bigger strings as well.
I know the 515 weighs twice the 416, otherwise the specs look the same. Is the only difference in the magnet?
Fred, The 604 had a little brother. IIRC using the 414 and 3000 combo,
I just can't recall the mod no. That, I think, would work very well in the style of cabinet your looking at.
Geoff. |
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| GM |
| quote: | Originally posted by jeff mai
They make 1505Bs seem positively tiny. These multicells are absolutely the best midrange I've ever heard. Bigger is always better!I |
Greets!
Indeed they do and it takes a hoist to install an early tar filled unit. BIB rules! Some of us even promote a DIY speaker alignment called BIB ;): http://www.zillaspeak.com/bib.asp
In the case of compression loaded horns though, it comes at the expense of HF extension/dispersion, which for some folks is unacceptable in a HIFI app even if their size isn't a major issue.
GM |
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| GM |
| quote: | Originally posted by Cal Weldon
This is really just something to scratch an itch or repair a wound, I'm not sure. I haven't built anything to speak of recently and have the 811's sitting on the shelf gathering dust.
I had a vision. I knew what I had to do.
What can I say? I don't try and suppress the signs, I simply go with them.
My name is Cal and I'm a speakerholic. |
Greets!
I assumed as much, but tossed it out anyway just in case others wanted to give horn stacking a try. Anyway, I know the feeling well, I have drivers and old gear scattered all over the house awaiting cabs and repair/scavaging for parts, but 'life' keeps getting in the way of my hobby/addiction. :(
Understood, it's how I got hooked on speaker building at the tender age of eight. One day I happened upon a driver with a shape that looked suspiciously like the cutout in my mom's tissue box, so much to my delight and her chagrin, I confirmed they were a near perfect match. Later, my dad hooked it up to a little table radio and the rest as they say was history. ;)
GM |
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| GM |
| quote: | Originally posted by Geoff H
[B]I have 95 acres out the back door. And no big Altecs running at the moment.
You big horn guys have frightened the home models, so I'll break the ice with these Atlantics. |
Greets!
Almost moved 'down under' in '75 to get the high pay then being offered to engineering types and your kind of privacy/stable enough year-round weather for a permanent outdoor HIFI install since I got burned out on hauling three 210s out to the patio for our weekend cul-de-sac neighborhood dance parties, weather permitting.
I'm not familiar with the Atlantics at all, I assume they were built locally since Altec built many designs 'overseas' not seen/marketed in the USA. Then again, I wasn't aware of the Model 1, etc., series until the various Altec catalogs were posted on the net since apparently the local consumer retailer either didn't believe these would sell and/or more likely, felt it might cut into the sales of a more profitable line. For sure the distributor where I bought components wouldn't have bothered to keep any on hand or promote them since his 'bread n' butter' products were all prosound related.
GM |
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| Cal Weldon |
| quote: | Originally posted by GM
I assumed as much, but tossed it out anyway just in case others wanted to give horn stacking a try. |
Yes, good advice. I don't recommend doing what I am unless you happen to have them laying around and haven't spent all your Christmas money yet.
| quote: | | [i]Anyway, I know the feeling well, I have drivers and old gear scattered all over the house awaiting cabs and repair/scavaging for parts, but 'life' keeps getting in the way of my hobby/addiction. :( [/B] |
I think we can all relate.
| quote: | | [i]Understood, it's how I got hooked on speaker building at the tender age of eight. One day I happened upon a driver with a shape that looked suspiciously like the cutout in my mom's tissue box, so much to my delight and her chagrin, I confirmed they were a near perfect match. Later, my dad hooked it up to a little table radio and the rest as they say was history. ;) [/B] |
Our beginnings are eerily similar. I used the tissue as my damping agent. I cut the earphone part off an old plug and hooked 'er up to my little bedroom radio. I did it all myself as I was all grown up by then. I was 10.
I am hoping things will arrive this week but at this time of year, customs can be quite slow.
Cheers. |
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| kec |
| quote: | Originally posted by panomaniac
And Ken (KEC) has the best bragging rights of all. He actually worked at Altec and built drivers! Hooray! You rule, Ken! |
Aw, shucks Michael you're embarrassing me :o
As I mentioned before working at Altec was great experience for me. I remember having a really cool boss. If you can believe this, he actually let me build up of a pair of 421A's that I got to keep. Talk about bonus :D
At the time, I wasn't sure what I would do with them. One of my other hobbies was woodworking which I got exposed to in Jr. High School, yes, Jr. High. I knew I would build an enclosure, but what!
Then a buddy of mine, who also worked at Altec (as a tech) asked me if I wanted to build some speaker enclosures for some side projects he was doing. Natually I said "sure". I went to his work shop and saw that he had an actual JBL 4530 enclosure - but only one. Hmm, what to do... So, we decided that I would take the 4530 and copy it to build 2 new enclosures. I wasn't aware of any existing plans - remember, this is way before Al Gore's Internet :D So, as they say, you must decontruct to reconstruct. That's what I did. I pulled one side off and took some measurements and started building. It was actually easier to build than I thought it would be. Toughest part was getting horn curvature correct.
About the same time, another buddy/co-worker of mine had some small Yamaha horn/compression drivers that he picked up at a local train salvage yard (I guess they sell stuff that gets damaged and/or lost). Anyway, since we worked at Altec why not test these at work. We ran some tests in one of the anechoic chambers - about as perfect condition as possible. And wouldn't you know it, they actually tested better than some of the Altec's. The horns were much smaller than the 511B's (about half the height). So, after talking to my friend about the project we were doing, he decided to donate them for our cause.
We had many employee sales at Altec, new and used stuff. I wish I could relive the past and buy stuff I should have bought when I was there :bawling: At about the same time all this was happening I picked up some of the crossovers at one of these sales - I think they were about $5 or $10 each. I don't remember which XO's they were.
The pieces were all in place. We had all the required components to finish this project. After completion, we did a sound check. Up first Pink Floyd's The Happiest Days Of Our Lives (The Wall), I still love that helicopter track. I just remember being in awe of the way they sounded, I'm not tooting my own horn, I was more surprised than anything else. We must have gotten it right.
When we started this project, we weren't building these for anyone in particular. We just wanted to get something to show off to potential customers. No sooner did we get these done, a local band approached us for a PA system. We had nothing to show them except what we just finished. We demoed them, they loved 'em - they were sold.
We had a lot less than $100 invested, they sold for $1000. Not a bad investment. In some ways I wish I still had them, but it was a great learning experience.
-Ken |
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| Geoff H |
Greetings all. The Atlantics were made at the Anaheim plant, according to the stickers. All the panels have the Altec part nos. But not ply, particle board instead. They do retain that mid range bite and transparency of it's bigger brothers.
I suspect they were made for the overseas market, and final assembly at their destination. Maybe our friend that served time at the plant can shed some light.
A Cohen's book has plans for a similar units, using a 402 or 755 with a 2000 (cone) or a 3000 horn.
Seems like we all started out in similar ways. I discovered that a good crystal set could drive a 5" speaker with a 7000 ohm transformer. Not very loud off course. That speaker then mated with a piece of timber after I cut the hole with a coping saw, and sat the thing in the corner of my room.
Then the old console thing, including burnt fingers pulling valves to try a different one. Not forgetting a hell of a shock one day, using a set of old headphones as a signal tracer. Lucky to still be here. B+ in ears with grounded fingures, not good. Stars and all.
A question on the A7 and similar. The plans I have look as though part of the driver fires behind the flare of the mid horn, or do you cut the hole with straight sides to match the sides of the throat.
I just cant see why you would bleed part of that energy back into the cabinet, or am I missing something? |
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| Cal Weldon |
Geoff,
The A7 cabinet is the one in my avatar. The mounting board (baffle) is solid and larger than the woofer so no sound slips back into the cabinet. The drivers are back mounted so the space between the mounting board and the throat opening acts as a compression chamber and sends it all out the front. |
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| Geoff H |
Thanks Cal, what you say makes sense. However the diagram looks as though a 8" wide throat is on a 13.25 hole. Allowing for the thickness of the flare, leaves a gap 1.85" wide behind the flare. The baffle is only 18 inches wide. Now that's baffling.
I have attached the drawing, it's probably well known to you.
Geoff |
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| GM |
| quote: | Originally posted by Geoff H
The only complaint I have with them is the foam surround. Cloth may have been a better choice.
My father looked amazed when I played a St Saen's? Organ Concerto off the vinyl.
I know the 515 weighs twice the 416, otherwise the specs look the same. Is the only difference in the magnet?
Fred, The 604 had a little brother. IIRC using the 414 and 3000 combo, I just can't recall the mod no. |
Greets!
I believe GP will re-cone the 411 with an accordian surround, but Xmax will be reduced, ergo ditto low distortion SPL down low, especially in a sealed alignment. Regardless, foam surrounds today are chemically treated to last much longer than the early ones.
St. Saens on vinyl goes low for vinyl, though unless the TT is extremely well isolated from the room you still won't experience what relatively low fundamentals it has, so you'll need the CD combined with mass quantities of acoustic efficiency and power to experience the low B note in all its glory, not to mention hugging the CD player in your lap or similar to keep it from mis-tracking too. The first time I ~properly experienced it, the owner had his TT and CD player ensconced in a lead lined cab disguised as a coffee table.
The 515 also has a more massive diaphragm/VC assembly to better handle the additional throat pressure/lower tuning of their 'A' series theater bass horns and why the more powerful motor is required.
Right, the 601 duplex series.
GM |
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| GM |
| quote: | Originally posted by Cal Weldon
I think we can all relate. |
Greets!
No doubt, but except for 'bench racing' audio on-line, mine had been going on ~unabated for >17 yrs now, making me one very frustrated dude. As it is, most of the drivers with foam surrounds have rotted......
GM |
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| Cal Weldon |
Hi Geoff,
My throat opening is only 7.5" and the baffle is about 18" +/- The baffle does not cover over the inside of the flare and there is a gap between the edge of the baffle and the side of the cabinet. I have heavily stuffed the inside of the flare. If I remember I'll snap a pic next time in the shop (not at my house) |
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| jeff mai |
| quote: | Originally posted by GM
In the case of compression loaded horns though, it comes at the expense of HF extension/dispersion, which for some folks is unacceptable in a HIFI app even if their size isn't a major issue.
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The benefits of big midrange horns are more than worth the hassle of interfacing a tweeter above 8kHz. |
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| Geoff H |
Yes, the better drawing says it all. The gap I was seeing is covered by the cleat.
When I built my 411 boxes, I used 2x3 hardwood frames (big cleats!) as I was not real good with timber, and that gave me tons of glue area so they weren't gonna leak. Screws about 8" apart, so they weren't gonna rattle. 2x3 brace just below the driver, tied to one on the back. Another between the sides. I allowed a cub foot for the bracing/frame. My mates thought I was nut's. If I was it was due to other reasons.
Those drivers cost me a lot of dough (trade price - $380 Aust, 1976) I knew what they could do. I was not compromising.
BTW a pair of Barcelonas retailed at $3300 then, thanks to freight and import duty.
Not sure what to do with the 411s. I don't have the room they deserve, so no hurry.
Bass off vinyl. No problem. I had a Thorens TD124 (11lb platter) with an Infinity Black Widow and Ortofon. Finely tuned, and often in a separate room. That combo would laugh at the Shure Audio Obsticle Course.
Good old days.
Geoff |
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| Zen Mod |
| quote: | Originally posted by Geoff H
Y........................
Not sure what to do with the 411s. I don't have the room they deserve, so no hurry..............................
Geoff |
I have room for them........
I'll do you a favor ,but you pay the freights :devilr: |
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| panomaniac |
Turntable in another room?
You're hard core, Geoff! |
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| panomaniac |
OK, while we're on the subject of Altec 825 and 828 cabinets - what makes them sound so good?
It's a big bass reflex cabinet - about 14 cubic feet - with a large shallow port.
That part I undestand - though comments are welcome.
But what about that flare in front of the driver? What does that add? |
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| jeff mai |
| quote: | Originally posted by panomaniac
OK, while we're on the subject of Altec 825 and 828 cabinets - what makes them sound so good? |
I didn't think the small Altec cabs sounded that great when I tried them. This is possibly influenced by having a pair of these cabinets to compare:
BIB! :) |
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| Geoff H |
Zen Mod
"I have room for them........
I'll do you a favor ,but you pay the freights"
I hadn't considered adoption....
Just did. Nope.
Panomaniac.
"Turntable in another room? You're hard core, Geoff!"
I hinted at that in post 25. GM knows where I'm coming from - post 52.
Don't worry Michael, one day you might get some real speakers.
You read about people hearing the differences between CD players, etc. I could hear when the Thorens needed an oil change. Serious.
The Altec enclosures are what I refer to as real BR, as oposed to those hissing air pumps - ducts. The port is sized according to the piston diameter eg 80%, and the cabinet size adjusted to tune the assembly.
The flare in front of the driver is a horn. In the case of the A7, going down to about 150 Hz. That's the bit that makes Saxophones, lower male vocals, violas etc stand out in the crowd. They are in reality a 3 way system.
Jeff Mai. I think we have grasped the concept that big is better. Now take your horn to your room.
Do you have a front view? |
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| panomaniac |
Now, now Jeff (with a J),
Play nice! We can't all trot out or "Bigger is Better, yours is not Big enough." So let's not go there. :D
Honestly, I've heard the big Altecs, like the A4s and the JBL clones. They sound great, they sound big, and they fill a huge cinema. But I'll take the modified 828 cabs with the 1505 horns any day. Why?
More natural. More realistic. Tighter. At least in a normal size room. A lot of old sound guys I knew would laugh at me when I told them how much I liked those cabinets. But they never heard a really tight, strong version with the 1505 on top.
Construction of the Altec cabinets was not always of the highest quality. Redoubling the walls with extremely dense plywood transformed them. Internal bracing, felt damping and tar helped too. No box sound at all. None. The design is good, if it's well built. Of course the A4s would rule if built up to those standards too.
Geoff (with a G)
Yep, horn loading on the 15" driver. But why? It usually isn't the 150Hz and up region that needs help. So why horn load it? Doesn't that tilt the response up? Is that part of the sound signature? Or is there something else going on? |
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| Cameron Glendin |
The Voice of the Theatre Models were designed in the era of 2000 plus seat cinemas and 30 watt valve amps, the horn loading of the bass was for efficency and long throw. Also the horn loading would control directionallity minimising early reflections and therefore increase intelligability in those potential echo chambers called auditoriums.
Ps some think that the JBL's were better, I was impressed by the sound myself. |
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| panomaniac |
| Which JBLs do you mean, Cameron? |
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| Geoff H |
panomaniac, I have a long established theory to your question, "but why" No physics to prove it however.
I believe for a speaker to reproduce a sound accurately, it must have some resemblance in size to the radiating surface of the instrument. If the effective surface area of the cone is smaller than the original radiating surface, it must travel futher to achieve a similar SPL.
If you take your average up market so called HiFi speaker with the classic 12" + 5" + 1" and crossovers at 500, + 5K, and ask yourself when any of those drivers, or combination, has resemblance to a musical instrument? You must have seen how far the skin on a bass drum travels. The above woofer has to travel twice that distance to achieve anything like the same sonic impact. Violin - off a 5" cone? And what does a 1" dome ressemble? A 15" diameter brass symbol, I don't think so, yet that is what we ask of it.
The horn enlarges the radiating surface, and also provides better impedance matching from the cone to the air. (That is physics)
Maybe others have a different take on it.
Geoff. |
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| jeff mai |
| quote: | Originally posted by panomaniac
Construction of the Altec cabinets was not always of the highest quality. Redoubling the walls with extremely dense plywood transformed them. Internal bracing, felt damping and tar helped too. |
To be fair, I never tried to get the most out of the smaller Altec cabinets. I think part of the reason I preferred the bigger RCA cabs (identical to the above picture I posted) is they were much more heavily constructed.
For the amount of space any of these large cabinets used, I'd prefer a straight horn and a separate ported sub below 70 Hz. Those big RCA cabs sure were fun at the time! |
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| Cal Weldon |
Pano,
What? Are you saying that using nails for curved panels is not high quality? ;) |
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| phn |
I hope I haven't missed any posts.
Altec A-4
Unfortunately, too big for my room. |
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| panomaniac |
Hey Jeff. From that photo I'd say the RCA were pretty well built! Must have sounded great. Solid construction sure seems to make a difference.
Ken.
Great story. Makes me wish I had gone out to Anaheim right after high school to work for Altec. We would have been there about the same time. 76-77?
I think I saw some of those Yamaha horns on eBay not too long ago. Someone said they weren't very good. Obviously you found otherwise. :) |
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| jeff mai |
| quote: | Originally posted by panomaniac
I think I saw some of those Yamaha horns on eBay not too long ago. Someone said they weren't very good. |
I'm about to find out if my Yamaha medium format drivers are any good. Just took delivery of 200Hz round fibreglass horns built for them. Cheaper than a pair of small Altec horns here down under. |
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| kec |
| quote: | Originally posted by panomaniac
Ken.
Great story. Makes me wish I had gone out to Anaheim right after high school to work for Altec. We would have been there about the same time. 76-77? |
Thanks Michael. It was nice to see this thread, brought up a lot of memories.
My mom also worked for Altec as a secretary. She was there until they shut the doors at the Anaheim plant.
I'm glad she still worked there, because the company had a final "field trip" of sorts - and I was invited. They bused a bunch of us to 20th Century Fox studios. Reason: Fox had one of the first Voice Of The Theater systems installed in their Executive screening room. And it was still being used. Oh, and we got to watch Kirk Douglas in The Man From Snowy River. Pretty nice event to cap off the end of Altec (for the most part). It was never the same after that.
-Ken |
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| Geoff H |
Ken, Thanks for adding to the thread. There is nothing like a few "inside" stories to compliment the experiences of end users. And from some one with "hands on" with Pink Floyd's system.
You were probably at the plant when my 411s went down the line.
When the Mustang reached 40 years of age, they had the worlds largest gathering of V8s. I wonder if we could get Dave Gilmour and the boys to roll up to a VOTT fest.
Geoff |
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| panomaniac |
| quote: | Originally posted by kec
They bused a bunch of us to 20th Century Fox studios. Reason: Fox had one of the first Voice Of The Theater systems installed in their Executive screening room. |
Well, isn't that strange. :bigeyes:
I just came across These 15 cell Altec Horns from 20th Century Fox studios on eBay last night. Just before reading your post.
Maybe they are the same ones you heard at the farewell party!!
High price, but the 1505s are never cheap. And these are real beauties with a nice history. Could be time to break out the credit card, Ken. ;) |
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| kec |
| quote: | Originally posted by Geoff H
Ken, Thanks for adding to the thread. |
Thanks for indulging me :)
| quote: |
You were probably at the plant when my 411s went down the line. |
What year did you get your 411s?
| quote: |
When the Mustang reached 40 years of age, they had the worlds largest gathering of V8s. |
I just bought a 2006 Mustang GT - love it :D
| quote: |
I wonder if we could get Dave Gilmour and the boys to roll up to a VOTT fest. |
Boy I wish. Last time I saw Pink Floyd was on the Animals tour (Anaheim Stadium) - awesome concert.
| quote: | Originally posted by panomaniac
Well, isn't that strange. :bigeyes:
I just came across These 15 cell Altec Horns from 20th Century Fox studios on eBay last night. Just before reading your post.
Maybe they are the same ones you heard at the farewell party!!
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What a coincidence.
Fox has several screening rooms (I've been in 2 differnt ones), maybe from one of their other screening room? I dunno. All I know is one of big honchos at Fox was a big fan of Altec and was proud that they still an original VOTT system, and that it was working very well.
If memory serves me, the label on those eBay horns look like the more recent version (late 70's early 80's).
-Ken |
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| Geoff H |
Hi Ken, the reciept is dated 26-11-76. Probably left your plant a month earlier. They were actually warranty replacement spares, I didn't want to wait another 2 months so Danny at Rank Australia transfered them to stock, while more were ordered.
BTW, the trip over the Pacific and import duty doubles the retail price.
We tried to get arround the import duty as nothing was being manufactured in that line, in Australia. Plessey Rola shut the doors, the magnetics plant sold (I spent some time working for the new owner, he couldn't see a market in big alnico magnets for speakers... And the rest of the plant went to Etone, hence the import duty.
Geoff. |
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| kec |
| quote: | Originally posted by Geoff H
Hi Ken, the reciept is dated 26-11-76. Probably left your plant a month earlier. |
I started working there in 1978.
-Ken |
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| GM |
| quote: | Originally posted by Cal Weldon
My throat opening is only 7.5"......... |
Greets!
FWIW, cabs with throat openings narrower than the 8" horn wall width are ideally only used with 800 Hz XOs, so unless you know when yours were made they may pre-date the introduction of the 511 in the mid '50s, especially if it has the added brace at the top of the throat that further reduces the low pass filter's area. By the time Altec began using 800 Hz XOs on the 511 loaded M.I. horn cabs circa '70, the 'bean counters' had long since dropped the option due to the A7-500 ~wiping out A7-8 sales, so for those folks with either a keen ear and/or response measuring equipment, there's some subtle sonic gains to be had by reducing the filter area when 811s are used with the larger throat cab.
Note that this applies only to Altec woofers listed for this cab or similar response mid-bass horn drivers since ones optimized for non-horn apps won't have the strong stepped response in the 500-1 kHz BW that you would be smoothing.
GM |
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| GM |
| quote: | Originally posted by jeff mai
The benefits of big midrange horns are more than worth the hassle of interfacing a tweeter above 8kHz. |
Greets!
While I agree with, and actively promote, 'BIB' where applicable, to maximize the performance benefits of a 300 Hz compression loaded multi-cell you'll need a much lower HF XO point, especially if the app is multi-channel. Also, ideally you'll need a larger horn unless a really steep XO and/or it's used in a very low power app since even the huge 1803 (http://www.wmeckle.com/BOYD/1803rca1.jpg) is no bigger than it absolutely had to be for acceptable performance in a PA app driven with a ~matching impedance amp and why there's no doubt in my mind this is why all the (relatively few) 1803 loaded cinema installs I saw when they were being dismantled used a 500 Hz XO, though I don't know if these were original or were swapped out when higher power and/or SS amps were installed.
GM |
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| Geoff H |
Hey Ken,
'78 was a good year. My daughter (now my best mate) was born.
So was 76, for wine.
Geoff. |
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| jeff mai |
| quote: | Originally posted by GM
to maximize the performance benefits of a 300 Hz compression loaded multi-cell you'll need a much lower HF XO point, especially if the app is multi-channel. |
Only if you don't use EQ. And you'll face that issue with any CD horn even if much smaller.
| quote: |
Also, ideally you'll need a larger horn unless a really steep XO and/or it's used in a very low power app since even the huge 1803 (http://www.wmeckle.com/BOYD/1803rca1.jpg) is no bigger than it absolutely had to be for acceptable performance |
What home app isn't very low power? FWIW, I used an active 24db/octave xover at 350-400Hz with my 1803B.
FYI - the RCA cabinet in that photo is one of the ones I owned and used with my 1803s. Boyd drove 1500 miles to Kansas to pick them up from me. |
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| Cal Weldon |
| I have now received my bolt on midranges so I started with this pole mount. |
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| Cal Weldon |
| Cut it, added some set screws. |
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| Cal Weldon |
| Resized the holes, added a cork gasket and mounted it. |
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| Cal Weldon |
| And now I have this. |
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| Cal Weldon |
| and from the front. |
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| Cal Weldon |
First listening impressions are good. They continue to remind me they are a far field speaker so I'll have to wait till spring before I have a good listen from 50 or 100 feet. (15 - 30 m)
Fun project, used up some spare parts. All in all, very worth it. |
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| Geoff H |
Hi Cal, how are you crossing over from the 500 to 800? I have an idea that needs more thought. Something like load sharing.
Also, what's that up in the top left in thes last pic?
You don't have to wait for spring, it's summer over here.
Cheers,
Geoff |
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| bottom_feeder |
I'm gonna guess a Klipsch Cornwall . . . . .
lets see if I'm right . . . |
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| panomaniac |
Stack O'Horns! Love it!
What are the drivers? |
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| Geoff H |
"Stack O'Horns! Love it!"
Michael, don't insult the man, theyr'e gonna join the stack o'VOTTs. |
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| Cal Weldon |
| quote: | Originally posted by Geoff H
Hi Cal, how are you crossing over from the 500 to 800? |
Hi Geoff, the XO's are approx 650 and 5K, 12 dB
| quote: | | Also, what's that up in the top left in thes last pic? [/B] |
Part of a kitchen cabinet set . That is the lower corner cupboard I have stuck up on the wall. It's where I keep my stash...
...of caps coils and resistors. ;)
| quote: | | [i]You don't have to wait for spring, it's summer over here.[/B] |
Thanks buddy. Strong winds and rain mixed with snow here. You really cheer me up.
| quote: | [i]Originally posted by panomaniac
Stack O'Horns! Love it! What are the drivers? |
The lower is a Selenium D250-X on the 511 horn and a Selenium D205Ti on the 811. The woofer is a Selenium WPU-1507-QCF. |
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| Zen Mod |
| quote: | Originally posted by Cal Weldon
..........
Part of a kitchen cabinet set . ............................
The lower is a Selenium D250-X on the 511 horn and a Selenium D205Ti on the 811. The woofer is a Selenium WPU-1507-QCF. |
I knew that this isn't KH ;) .......just because this days my head is full with KH papers and plans (just thinking...thinking....)
regarding Selenium.....there is one on pic in post No.15 ......hehe,but dunno number from top of my head .......used as supertweet,temporary with APT80's plastic horn,just for better dispersion.
crossed with two para 0,47UF VitQ in line and pretty attenuated. |
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| Cal Weldon |
| quote: | Originally posted by Cal Weldon
My throat opening is only 7.5" |
Note to self: Actual measurements are more accurate than memory.
Mr M, my openings are 8" |
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| panomaniac |
| quote: | | Originally posted by Cal Weldon ]Thanks buddy. Strong winds and rain mixed with snow here. You really cheer me up. |
Jeez, I just came inside for the back yard where I was sitting in the shade reading a book about Australia and drinking iced tea. :D
Lovely day, here. The meteor shower last night was wonderfull.
| quote: | | a Selenium D205Ti on the 811. |
Ah ha, I was supposed to stick the D210s on the 811s to have a listen, never did. How are the D205s? |
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| GM |
| quote: | Originally posted by jeff mai
Only if you don't use EQ. And you'll face that issue with any CD horn even if much smaller.
What home app isn't very low power? FWIW, I used an active 24db/octave xover at 350-400Hz with my 1803B.
FYI - the RCA cabinet in that photo is one of the ones I owned and used with my 1803s. Boyd drove 1500 miles to Kansas to pick them up from me. |
Greets!
We seem to have a 'failure to communicate'. ;) I'm not referring to its CD horn HF roll-off, but the mass quantities of comb filtering going on with increasing frequency between the cells, which no amount of electrical EQ can correct other than a low XO point and/or steep slope, though open cell foam inserted in the outer cells to roll off their HF will help somewhat.
Well, mine for one when it was all together/functioning. I much prefer reproducing all the dynamics a recording has to offer Vs the euphonic clipping of a typical low power tube amp, or worse, the not so euphonic typical SS clipping ckt.. Even with an H.E. system it takes a lot more than 'flea' power to reproduce the +30 dB transients on some CDs.
W-bins do make big sound, but back when I had a big rig I didn't have the luxury of steep digital XOs/TD, so stuck with the truncated, wide BW front loaded 210s. Anyway, nice to see them preserved rather than chainsawed for easy loading into a dumpster like has been the fate of most of these 'dinosaurs'.
GM |
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| GM |
| quote: | Originally posted by panomaniac
Jeez, I just came inside for the back yard where I was sitting in the shade reading a book about Australia and drinking iced tea. :D
Lovely day, here. The meteor shower last night was wonderfull. |
Greets!
Yeah, we're in the midst of an 'Indian Summer' that they predict will last for another 10 days or so, with mostly sunny skies and highs in the low 70s. ;) No tree shade though, I raked up the last of the leaves/cleaned out the gutters yesterday.
Must be nice, 'Hotlanta' is so lit up at night that I haven't seen much of the night sky around here since the late '50s.
GM |
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