| Kill-Pres-Bush |
Has anyone here had success with dampening their CD players?
I believe I have had success with using blu-tack and dynamat..
I did a search - but these forums contain very few references to dampening/damping. |
|
|
| halojoy |
| quote: | Originally posted by Kill-Pres-Bush
Has anyone here had success with dampening their CD players?
I believe I have had success with using blu-tack and dynamat..
I did a search - but these forums contain very few references to dampening/damping. |
I do nothing for my CD:s
Execept I keep them in the refridgerator,
so they are cold.
This stops/reduce the elctronic activity
in the plastic.
Reslult is a very cold and neutral sound
with less electronic noise between 16000-27500 Hertz
I notice this has most good effect on classical chamber music recordings, and unplugged popmusic.
Other than this I have not tested any CD-tweaks
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Maybe this thread that I started to learn more is some
good reading for this subject:
Vibration Isolators - Air, Magnets or other materials
/halo |
|
|
| Bobken |
| quote: | Originally posted by Kill-Pres-Bush
Has anyone here had success with dampening their CD players?
I believe I have had success with using blu-tack and dynamat..
I did a search - but these forums contain very few references to dampening/damping. |
Yes, I have had great success with several pices of audio gear, the most successful being a radio tuner and a (quite good Audiolab) CD transport which is based on the Phillips CDM-12 transport.
I have used many forms of proprietary damping materials like Microsorb, Deflex, Sorbothane, Bluetack, and bitumen based sheets as used in the auto trade, and lead sheets used in roofing buildings.
With the CD transport, I found that where there is an inbuilt transformer, it is vital to ensure that the transformer is very well isolated from the chassis, and out of all the materials tried, Deflex was the most effective here.
With a central bolt mounted torroid, you can carefully back-off the nut (change this to a self locking type like an aeronut or nylock) and you can literally 'tune' the sound for the best improvement during listening tests.
Watch out, though, if you ever need to carry the unit about or send it anywhere by carrier, as, in my case, the nut is so fixed that it merely sits on top of the tranny, and doesn't hardly comress the underlying Deflex support pad at all. For carriage, I would need to tighten this up a bit to stop the heavy transformer moving about!
Some years ago I read that a similar experimenter felt that he had gone too far with damping a CD and that, consequently, the sound had lost some of its life and sparkle.
My own experiences are quite different, however, and I have found that the more damping applied, the better, and my CD now weighs a ton, but it sounds very good and clean.
In my opinion, any form of unwanted vibration is a bad thing and only leads to a deterioration in sound quality, but for some people in some circumstances I accept that they might prefer to hear the effects of vibration in a similar way to the euphonious colouration caused by say 2nd harmonic distortion. However, my pursuit has always been to have the most accurate sound possible and all vibration must go!
The results are very worthwhile, and I strongly encourage you try it. Provided you don't do any physical damage to anything while you are carrying out the mods, you have nothing to lose, and the materials are not terrifically expensive, especially lead sheet and Bluetack etc.
Apart from speakers and cartridges which produce their sound as a result of vibration, of course, (and musucal instruments) no other forms of vibration I can readily think of can possibly assist with reproducing accurate sound, so even if you dampen some 'harmless' vibrations it cannot make things worse, and every piece of audio gear I have worked on and damped, has benefitted from the exercise.
God luck! |
|
|
| dorkus |
halojoy, i highly doubt you are reducing, much less stopping "electronic activity" by refridgerating your CDs, if you mean at the quantum level. unless you have a dilution refrigerator. :p
sorry did i miss a joke? |
|
|
| Pres-Bush |
Hey Bobken
I have already experimented on my 6 year old Marantz CD36 (I think it's identical to a Phillips 723). I tightened down the transport with bigger screws; I applied blu tack all over the chassis, transformer, and selected sensible areas of the transport and PCB. The results were remarkable; the CDP really did become much clearer and more precise.
I finally knackered the player when I tried to change op-amps; a long length of copper track rose up and peeled off; which was a great shame since it had really started to shine just with the dampening mods alone.
I have just recently bought a Denon DCD-835 (which is a much better player that recieved some excellent reviews). This time I shall apply Maplins Brown Bread (exactly like Dynamat) OR Dynamat OR Akasa and/or blu-tack... I shall be much more liberal this time. I am again hoping for good results.
I usually do my music tweakings with the aid of special magic herbs...:angel: |
|
|
| uvodee |
I have finished a balanced line stage (pass) and his SOZ.
Now i am trying to 'reinvent' the cd player.
I followed an idea of someone who used a cd rom (creative blast) but as i have many cd roms already at home (I recycle things from 'friends') i took apart the first one i could grab out of my colonial trunk " a Sony" .
I am wondering though if the cd rom is going to perform as good as a commercial one, I am llistening to all your ideas in order to reduce any 'noise' it may create when not following 'politically correct guidelines.
shoot!
Jean-Pierre |
|
|
| cowanrg |
| i recently learned that dynomat has an insanely high markup value. what sells for like $50 at my store i can get for around $11. as soon as i get my player back, im going to dynomat the whole inside, its supposed to make some nice sonic improvements. |
|
|
| Stryder |
| quote: | Originally posted by cowanrg
i recently learned that dynomat has an insanely high markup value. what sells for like $50 at my store i can get for around $11. as soon as i get my player back, im going to dynomat the whole inside, its supposed to make some nice sonic improvements. |
If I lived in the States I would buy http://www.fatmat.com/
I realised that Dynamat was over-priced. At the end of the day it is just a fairly dense rubber (probably neoprene) with an aluminium foil sheet covering and some adhesive...
In the UK we pay more than 60% more for Dynamat than you. So count yourself lucky. |
|
|
| planet10 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Stryder
]Has anyone here had success with dampening their CD players? |
Just a little nomenclature here.
Dampening is the act of getting something wet. I don't think you really want to pour water on your CD player :D
Damping the chassis & various other parts of almost any electronics can have a beneficial effect if applied in the right places.
dave |
|
|
| mrfeedback |
Thanks Dave, I was going to say the same.
"Damping the chassis & various other parts of almost any electronics can have a beneficial effect if applied in the right places. "
In addition to the loss characteristics of the damping used, the elements used add a further sonic characteristic.
Lead is a wonderful mechanical damping material, but adds a leaden tone.
Blue-tack sounds horrible ime.
Eric. |
|
|
| Stryder |
| quote: | Originally posted by planet10
Just a little nomenclature here.
Dampening is the act of getting something wet. I don't think you really want to pour water on your CD player :D
Damping the chassis & various other parts of almost any electronics can have a beneficial effect if applied in the right places.
dave |
I believe you have it the wrong way round
A search on google reveals that both forms have the same meaning according to many on-line dictionaires. |
|
|
| Stryder |
http://www.b6akustik.dk/engelsk/index_eng.htm
this company describes it's products as vibration dampeners
A search on the net reveals that there is no right way to use damping or dampening... which I am suprised at... |
|
|
| Stryder |
| quote: | Originally posted by mrfeedback
Thanks Dave, I was going to say the same.
"Damping the chassis & various other parts of almost any electronics can have a beneficial effect if applied in the right places. "
In addition to the loss characteristics of the damping used, the elements used add a further sonic characteristic.
Lead is a wonderful mechanical damping material, but adds a leaden tone.
Blue-tack sounds horrible ime.
Eric. |
You really believe that you can sense the charecteristics of the damping/dampeneing medium? I am not sure that I can buy this claim...
BTW this site is excellent. I am amazed at what some people have built. I have a Masters in engineering - so I shall make an attempt at something good myself.. I shall use this site for inspiration. |
|
|
| mrfeedback |
I mean the material used imparts sonics due to field effects.
See The Sound Of Chassis .
Eric. |
|
|
| halojoy |
I believe dampening of vibration & resonances
in chassis is not nessesary in digital machines
like CDs.
The real benefit is in TurnTables and such.
Michrophones in recording situation.
A digital have only two states of information 0 and 1.
A vibration will not change that.
Neither will the clock signal be affected
to an audiable degree.
-----------------------------------------------------
So dampen and protect my TurnTable from
outside Vibrations and Soundwaves, YES.
Any more dampening than what is already present
on my CD-player , NO
-------------------------------------------------------
But who is gonna stop you from doing what
you think alters your impression of sound? :confused: :confused:
:D I know I can NOT do it. :D
/halo - has limited effect on other persons |
|
|
| Bobken |
Hi Halojoy,
I would be interested to know what has given rise to your clearly-stated beliefs over not damping CD players.
Have you tried out what I have done and found it not to be beneficial?
If not, is it very helpful to anyone else to express such unfounded beliefs?
Regrettably, I cannot give you any explanation for what does actually happen here, but that doesn't trouble me at all.
The improvements are not at all illusory, in spite of your beliefs, and if you have a CD player with a single bolted down torroidal transformer, why don't you just try and loosen off the central retaining nut as I suggested, and see what happens?
It shouldn't take more than a few minutes at the most, is completely reversible, and will cost you nothing!
This is not quite the same thing as adding damping to different areas of the player, but the effect is the same in that it reduces the transformer's inherent vibrations from affecting the entire electronic circuitry and the laser etc, in one quite simple step.
Having done that, you might just be surprised, and decide that, no matter how unlikely it may seem from simple theories about 1's & 0's etc., it would be worth trying out some damping in the CD player to deal with some of the other vibrations which *do* have a negative affect on a CD player's performance.
I would be very interested to hear further from you on this subject if and when you have some worthwhile feedback, based on practical experience, to add to this thread.
Regards, |
|
|
| Peter Daniel |
I agree with Bob. Controlling vibrations in a CD player is very important, as important as with a TT.
This is what I had to use to voice a player to my taste.;)
Sand box on a bottom, an epoxy based platform, 3 spikes supporting a granite/blown rubber sandwich and acrylic blocks directly under the player. Each of those components had influence on a sound. |
|
|
| Bobken |
| quote: | Originally posted by Peter Daniel
I agree with Bob. Controlling vibrations in a CD player is very important, as important as with a TT.
This is what I had to use to voice a player to my taste.;)
Sand box on a bottom, an epoxy based platform, 3 spikes supporting a granite/blown rubber sandwich and acrylic blocks directly under the player. Each of those components had influence on a sound. |
Hi Peter, whilst I know from many hours of patient trials that what I said was true (however unlikely it may seem), I am pleased someone so well-respected on the board has expressed a similar view.
Clearly, there are a great many doubters who have never taken the trouble to try these things out for themselves, and in expressing such negative opinions, they don't help with my sincere efforts to encourage others to 'have a go' for themselves.
Incidentally, and for what it is worth, having scanned the Forum as a guest for some months now, I have realised that my experiences have so far entirely coincided with those of your own which you have expressed on many matters.
It is one helluva coincidence that two people from opposite sides of the Atlantic appear to have discovered the same phenomena as we appear to have done, or could it just be that as result of our open-minded approach and diligent efforts, we have simply got some of these things right?
No doubt the sceptics who are too lazy to carry out their own investigations will say that we are deluding ourselves, but if they knew how difficult it is in identifying these problems, and even more difficult in overcoming them, they might just have the wit to think again.
I greatly admire the engineering in your DIY equipment, and your standards of construction make someone like myself, who is a similar perfectionist, rather envious.
Just because it is home-made, our audio equipment does not have to look shoddy, and you are a shining example for us all to follow!
Regards, |
|
|
| halojoy |
If your experiences are true,
then there is an explaination.
I do not believe in magic.
"I ain't Supersticious" an old song recorded by Stevie Wonder.
The day I get the logical described to me (I am old fashion enough
to still trust in the law of Cause and effect)
That day I will start using dampening of digital machines.
To get better "1" and "0".
So until I get a proper explaination:
Sorry guys - I will not try to do
what I find logical unnessesary.
-----------------------------------------------
So why do I belive in GOD, who noone has seen ever,
at least with valid documentation. :confused: :confused:
Well, what can I say?
I guess I believe in magic, anyway - Just a little bit ....
/halo |
|
|
| Bobken |
Halojoy,
I am glad that I can at last find something in your post with which I concur.
I agree wholeheartedly that there must be an explanation for the beneficial effects of damping CD players which I have perceived during extensive listening trials.
The difference between us seems to be that simply because I don't happen to know what the true explanation is at this time, I will not ignore what is obvious to me and pretend that it doesn't exist.
Because I wish to have the best possible sounding audio system, I am prepared to invest the necessary time and will continue to carry out such trials, many of which, unfortunately, either don't seem to have any noticeable effect, or the result is no better.
The beneficial result I explained in response to the enquiry regarding CD players, just happens to be one of the 'success stories'.
I hoped my comments might inspire a few others to do the same, and see what they think, because damping CD players is perhaps not an intuitively obvious thing to try, but you have made it clear that you will not bother.
As an enthusiast, I cannot understand your reluctance, especially when I have shown you how to conduct a very simple, free, fully reversible, no-risk test, which would only take you a few minutes.
Sadly, your CD player will not sound as good as it could as a direct result of this, unless the manufacturer has already carried out this exercise effectively (but this would be the first time I have come accross such a situation, although several makers do make an attempt at eliminating some vibrations in CD players), but this is your choice.
Then again, I have not yet tried keeping my CDs in the fridge like you do, as I don't believe that there is any "electrical activity" in CDs to "reduce or eliminate" as you imply.
However, if, as you said, keeping CDs in the fridge does improve the sound of them (for whatever similarly unknown reason), I must try it out for myself, sometime, and if the sound improves, I will adopt that procedure in future, even though I cannot expain the technical reason for any change.
A Happy New Year to you. |
|
|
| halojoy |
I am glad you are glad. :)
| quote: | Then again, I have not yet tried keeping my CDs in the fridge like you do, as I don't believe that there is any "electrical activity" in CDs to "reduce or eliminate" as you imply.
However, if, as you said, keeping CDs in the fridge does improve the sound of them (for whatever similarly unknown reason), I must try it out for myself, sometime, and if the sound improves, I will adopt that procedure in future, even though I cannot expain the technical reason for any change.
|
That was a joke, I do not keep my CDs in fridge!
But I can sometimes be, somewhat, ironical
in my remarks.
----------------------------
You haven't heard about my bad Casio calculator.
Which only gave an "E" when I tried to take Square root of -1.
I then asked, if I should buy me a more irrational calculator,
which could accept irrational numbers.
What is the fault in my Calculator?
--------------------------------------------------------------
But I have have heard guys that do this "tweak". With refridged CDs.
And also found out that having the CD on the metal kitchen sink
before playing them, will make them sound better.
Possible cause: Unloding static electricity from the plastic.
/halo - the joker in the diyAudio deck of cards |
|
|
| Wombat |
What is obvious to me is that if the cd mechanism depends
on vibrations and the laser feels more comfortable - damping and
different materials will influence it all the time.
Acryl is very different behaving from all wood types in the
speakers i tried - and this is all vibration for sure.
So all makes sense.
Nobody should deny until he tested the existance of such things.
You sure need a good gear to start with. |
|
|
| planet10 |
| quote: | Originally posted by halojoy
The day I get the logical described to me (I am old fashion enough
to still trust in the law of Cause and effect)
That day I will start using dampening of digital machines.
To get better "1" and "0". |
Just some points halo to point you in the direction of an explaination -- all circuits are microphonic to a certain extent, so damping the things that cause the microphony help, and there is a point in the process of getting the info from the disk into the CD electronics where we are really dealing with an analog RF situation (i pull this info from an interview with Julian Vereker -- someone who really impressed me when i met him). At this point it is not a 1 and 0 problem -- althou they are mixed in the syrup.
dave |
|
|
| Bobken |
Halojoy.
Great joke and a very worthwhile addition to this post.
I was completely taken in by you and thought you had become a Disciple of fellow countryman Peter Belt, who does espouse placing CDs in the freezer, but he says you need to write some special message on the bag you place the CDs in, for it to work.
Not yet having tried this, myself (and it is not at the top of my priority list!) I certainly will not make any scathing remarks about the procedure in a public place like this, in case it might inadvertantly wrongly influence anyone.
If I ever get around to trying it, I will let you know!
Wombat & planet10.
Just because I chose not to "rise to the bait" slung out by Halojoy and make any categoric statements which might indicate I think I know all about the reasons for the effects we notice here, it doesn't follow that I don't have any opinions!
I believe you are both correct in your comments, and I expect you were in turn as surprised as I was at the extent of the improvements which can be had with damping CDs.
Any means of giving the 'reading' mechanism an easier time would be almost bound to improve things, in my opinion.
No matter how good the inbuilt systems are for error correction or concealment, the interpolation circuitry cannot possibly make a better job of recreating (or sometimes blanking, where it cannot be successfully recreated) any missing information, which has been lost in the scanning process.
A lot of the time, it does a reasonably good job, although not a perfect one, but why encourage this circuit to work so hard anyway, if there are simple DIY ways of avoiding (or reducing) this?
I believe an analogy with a TT is reasonable in this case, and my TT doesn't care for me jumping up and down near it (and it doesn't have the 'benefit' of any correction circuits!) because that skips and misses bits of information in a big way, when I do that!
Actually, my guess is that in most cases the majority of improvement comes from the elimination of vibration caused to the electronic components, themselves.
You only need to remove a speaker Xover from the cabinet and listen to the marked changes and improvements this brings to the sound, to realise that electronic components simply don't like being shaken about!
In my tests on components, I have come across some capacitors which will make a sound (electrically- through the reproduction system, not from the body of the cap, itself) if you squeeze them, so they must be exibiting some kind of peizo-electrical behaviour, presumably.
Also, many caps will similarly make a noise through the system if you tap them with a screwdriver, or whatever, and I just don't want this kind of extraneous noise in my systems.
Many semi-conductors are definitely microphonic, too, but so far, I haven't noticed much of a problem with resistors performing badly in this way.
In my first CD damping trials, it was over a total period of some two years from start to finish, as I listened to every change individually, to ensure that nothing was being worsened.
This was following reading about someone else's experiences where he had said he had gone too far with damping and had accordingly taken some of the life of the sound away.
To be honest, I never noticed any such effect, and nowadays, I will go through say all of the semi-conductors at one time, and then in another 'session', perhaps try the caps, or whatever.
This speeds matters up a lot, but does provide some control over things, if anything ever seemed to be amiss. Whilst it hasn't yet happened to me as I said before, it would be lot easier to check back on the few components which have just been damped than to retrace all of one's steps back to square one!
Keep on damping, I say, and reap the sonic benefits!!!
Regards, |
|
|
| halojoy |
Must be quite easy to test, if laser reading is changed
for better or worse.
Make a run without damping, record the digital signal.
Same with dampening, record the digital signal.
Use your PC to compare the signals.
No problem with todays digital in/out connections
soundcards and modern computer techniques.
The problem, why this is NOT done,
is probably that those people believing in benefits
of dampening are a bit afraid of the results. :D :D
They have a slight feeling that there is no difference! ;)
Signal is to be taken DIRCETLY from the laser
before error correction.
This can surely be done!
That noone bothers to do RESEARCH of facts
I take as a silent admittance
that I am right in this matter!
As said earlier Turntables should be carefully
dampened and protected from Soundwave feedback in the listenning room.
And recording michrophones have to be that, too.
/halo - does believe in fact - not hypothesis -
- and also believe in Jesus, The Man who Saves :) |
|
|
| Bobken |
| quote: | Originally posted by halojoy
Must be quite easy to test, if laser reading is changed
for better or worse.
Make a run without damping, record the digital signal.
Same with dampening, record the digital signal.
Use your PC to compare the signals.
No problem with todays digital in/out connections
soundcards and modern computer techniques.
The problem, why this is NOT done,
is probably that those people believing in benefits
of dampening are a bit afraid of the results. :D :D
They have a slight feeling that there is no difference! ;)
Signal is to be taken DIRCETLY from the laser
before error correction.
This can surely be done!
That noone bothers to do RESEARCH of facts
I take as a silent admittance
that I am right in this matter!
As said earlier Turntables should be carefully
dampened and protected from Soundwave feedback in the listenning room.
And recording michrophones have to be that, too.
/halo - does believe in fact - not hypothesis -
- and also believe in Jesus, The Man who Saves :) |
This is utter nonsence, Halojoy.
The only reason I (and, it seems a few others) don't carry out such a test as you suggest is that it would serve no useful purpose to me/us.
I don't need to prove anything to you, nor to anyone else for that matter, and I don't need any further specious 'technical' proof of what my ears tell me.
I don't know about your strange habits, but I happen to listen to the results (i.e. music) with my ears, and I am very pleased with what I hear with those same ears as a result of carrying out some CD player damping modifications.
If you wish to believe I am deluding myself, then so be it!
You are the loser for being too bigoted to even try a much more simple test which I have already suggested to you.
I still hope that the original enquirer (and any other open-minded reader) on this thread will carry on trying out such modifications for themselves, and not be discouraged by uninformed guesswork from someone who has no practical experience of what this thread is about.
If they do, they will soon realise who is talking sense, and who is not!
You may take my future silence on this topic, at least where any of your posts are concerned, any way you like.
However, the true reason will be that I don't intend to waste any more time on your comments because you haven't apparently made any efforts to try *anything* out for yourself, and yet you speak with apparent authority as if you are the fount of all knowledge in this matter! |
|
|
| mrfeedback |
Carl (halojoy), you are out of your depth on this cdp debate.
Bob, yes you will quite strongly affect and strongly effect the sound that you are getting out of your cdp by placements and type of damping materials that you are using.
In typical cd players, the currents drawn by the servo stages (spin motor servo, lens focus servo, and lens tracking servo) are high level, noisey, erratic and interdependent (intermodulating).
Due to power supply interdependencies (interactions) and grounds conductors reactances, a whole range of resonances and feedbacks, electrical and mechanical, inter react and cause a variety of distortions.
Because of the reactiveness of a typical cd player system, mechanically, electrically and electronically, the final output sound WILL change according to alterations made to the disc spin/laser reader subsystem.
There are a number of quick and dirty improvements that can be made to a typical cdp, and these include mechanical, electrical and electronic.
Eric. |
|
|
| Bobken |
There are a number of quick and dirty improvements that can be made to a typical cdp, and these include mechanical, electrical and electronic.
Eric. [/B][/QUOTE]
Quite right mrfeedback, and the definition of "experience" is 'having made so many mistakes that there are few left to make'.
I have made quite a few in my time, but at least I have tried a lot of things and have learned a quite a bit along the way!
I wish I knew of someone well-known to quote at the foot of my posts who said something like " Theory has never prevented me from achieving things!"
Regards, |
|
|
| Pedja |
| quote: | Originally posted by Stryder
Has anyone here had success with dampening their CD players?
|
Yes, I think I did.
The things I’ve done (chronologically):
1. I put the player on the bike inner tire (and additional shelf). Generally speaking, the lower resonant frequency is better. Pumping tube, you’re also pumping the sound. I tried the glass, oak and MDF shelves. Glass had the best resolution, the MDF was best balanced, and oak was too murky for my taste. Tried also a few combinations of these. At this moment, I consider the MDF is the best compromise. (Base shelf is made of glass)
2. The player originally had a double aluminum bottom plate. I added one more bottom plate of 19mm MDF. The result: more analog sound.
3. Changed original feet with four solid aluminum, adjustable, spiked feet. This results in more pleasing sound and better resolution. I also tried a few arrangements with three feet, but did not like what I heard.
4. I applied 4mm rubber at all free inner sides of the unit (not at the bottom, because I soldered some parts underneath the PCB, no place to did that). Little strange effect, the sound became cleaner, but less transparent at the same time. It may be better if I applied many small patches at the inner side of the hood (I put one big).
So, I recommend the first three mods. As for fourth, I’m still not sure if it is good or bad. I’m planning to put another bracing on it.
Pedja |
|
|
| mrfeedback |
"the definition of "experience" is 'having made so many mistakes that there are few left to make'.
I have made quite a few in my time, but at least I have tried a lot of things and have learned a quite a bit along the way!"
I have never made any myself, of course. ;)
Eric, The All Knowing. |
|
|
| fdegrove |
Hello ,
First of all Halojoy...pay some respect and get a life please?
Bob,
Your experiences on the topic are frighteningly close to mine....a lifetime dedication to the reproduction of music.
Whoever thinks CD is perfect,please think again...it needs at least as much attention to vibration control as a TT and has a lot more problems to boot.
Other than that there are are different other matters that need attention...
Ever wondered what it is you don't like about CDs?
Vibrations are just a minor problem,believe me...
Cheers,;) |
|
|
| planet10 |
| quote: | Originally posted by fdegrove
Ever wondered what it is you don't like about CDs? |
Everytime i think about this, i think about the big Monty Python boot coming down to squah the music with spurei (sp) going everywhere (because it is unlikely that the Nyquist requirements are satisfied)...
dave |
|
|
| halojoy |
| quote: | Originally posted by halojoy
Must be quite easy to test, if laser reading is changed
for better or worse.
Make a run without damping, record the digital signal.
Same with dampening, record the digital signal.
Use your PC to compare the signals.
No problem with todays digital in/out connections
soundcards and modern computer techniques.
The problem, why this is NOT done,
is probably that those people believing in benefits
of dampening are a bit afraid of the results. :D :D
They have a slight feeling that there is no difference! ;)
-------------------------------------------------
/halo - does believe in fact - not hypothesis -
- and also believe in Jesus, The Man who Saves :) |
I really thought someone would have some facts to present
based on research.
Or that someone in this thread was willing to do some tests
to prove the effect of mechanical dampening.
If there is an effect, then it should be possible to show
its existens.
------------------------------
By the answers, I can not find anything that contradict
my assumption:
The problem, why this is NOT done,
is probably that those people believing in benefits
of dampening are a bit afraid of the results.
They have a slight feeling that there is no difference!
The scientific minded people are quite busy
about the "Complex Emitter Follower".
Probably why they are not engaged in this thread.
Or they maybe find this subject somewhat uninteresting.
/halo |
|
|
| Stryder |
You are either doing a little trolling or you have no idea about testing for microphonic output on an electronic circuit.
PS: You tap it whilst taking the trace.
CDP transport and electronics benefit from damping period.
Now go away and try it.
PS, if you are neither a troll or ignorant - read this and look at the generic specifications; then question in a really clever logical way why damping might help this complex arrangement. and what the roll of error correction and microphonics might play.
http://www.digitalcentury.com/encyc...e/cdplayer.html
Gary Lawson SEP B.Eng Hons |
|
|
| Bobken |
Halojoy,
It may seem arrogant to quote from an earlier post of mine, but I can do no better!
| quote: | Originally posted by Bobken
"I would be very interested to hear further from you on this subject if and when you have some worthwhile feedback, based on practical experience, to add to this thread".
Regards, [/B] |
|
|
|
| Sparhawk |
| quote: | Originally posted by halojoy
Must be quite easy to test, if laser reading is changed for better or worse. Make a run without damping, record the digital signal. Same with dampening, record the digital signal.
Use your PC to compare the signals. No problem with todays digital in/out connections soundcards and modern computer techniques.
|
Such comparisons have been done in the past, not with damping mods in particular, but with other variables. More often than not, the data is found to be bit-identical. But this means nothing. You have to understand that musical data is not the same as computer data. With digital music, the timing of the bits is just as important as the value of the bits. Minute amount of jitter are audible. When you consider things in the time domain, digital components suddenly seem to have much in common with analogue. |
|
|
| dorkus |
| yes, the primary difference between analog and digital systems is the MANNER in which external inputs (vibration, power supply fluctuations, etc.) modulate the output and thus what type of distortion they produce. there is no question however that both systems are susceptible to such interference. |
|
|
| planet10 |
Another scenerio where damping could be seen to benefit is: without damping we get more vibration on the disk making the laser mechanism work harder to track the disk. This causes more noise and load in the power-supply degrading the analog section of the player.
You will also note that all the high end players pay particular attention to damping. The Linn CD-12 for instance has a chassis milled out of a solid billet of aluminum into a shape that is intended to immunize it from external vibrations.
dave |
|
|
| mrfeedback |
Another scenerio where damping could be seen to benefit is: without damping we get more vibration on the disk making the laser mechanism work harder to track the disk. This causes more noise and load in the power-supply degrading the analog section of the player.
Yup, thats what I said earlier on .
Additionally, digital power supply fluctuation causes modulation of the analogue waveform datastream slicer (jitter), modulation of the clock oscillator (jitter) and modulation of timings in the DSP chip.
Seperated power supplies for servo, digital and analogue audio stages pays big benefits.
Mechanical damping helps, but the electronics require attention also.
Eric. |
|
|
|
