| thomaseliot |
Veteran produced more than one hundred boards for ZV9, but I can't see here around so many building experiences (see "Where are Zen V9 builders" thread).
As I'm new in Class A I suspect this is only apparently an easy project, or newbees don't want to put obvious questions. I'll take the risk.
I have already Veteran's pcb and Lovoltech jfets, so the first problem is overcome. Next problem is the choice of components. Here too I suspect that each one has its secret contribution to an overall equilibrium I don't understand and that a single spec of a single component can destroy it.
I compiled following part list collecting informations from members bigbrowncow, gewa and others. There are Digikey part n. so it can be useful to other too. I will update it if there are observations.
Do I go on?
Cheers
Thomas |
|
|
| thomaseliot |
For an easy check of the part list here are pictures of amp and ps pcb:
 |
|
|
| neil_kaye |
Thomaseliot,
Thanks for taking the initiative on this list, I for one will definitley find it useful.
I know Peter Daniels just completed a ZV9 and perhaps he might be willing to share his parts list? |
|
|
| thomaseliot |
Hi Neil,
nice to find you here. Do we start building? :)
Peter Daniel uses very high grade components, something like the whole part list value for 2 caps. I would go with ordinary components for this first try.
Ciao
Thomas |
|
|
| Peter Daniel |
I never prepare parts list for my project, and usually use what I have in stock. Since this is a special amp, I decided to use the best, or maybe rather, most expensive parts I had available ;)
Panasonic caps and Dale resistors would be fine here.
Here's the link to my version of the amp: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/show...90&pagenumber=1 |
|
|
| GuidoR |
Thomas,
Mine is under construction.
As usual (for me) the main difficulties are in the mechanical parts.
Moreover, I don't like "square box" appearance that the major part of the constructions has (except for that of Peter, really something new), but this amplificate the difficulties (especially due to the fact that I haven't any mechanical skill...).
Anyway, I based my build on 4 heatsink (mod. 8059, 150 mm
at www.esco.it) so it has been necessary to modify the PCB.
Thank you for the BOM, soon I will order from Digikey.
I only suggest to add fast recovery diodes, or FRED's from IXYS (sold by Digikey also)
Guido |
|
|
| sts9fan |
Thanks for this parts list! I am a new at this and I am going to tackle this project soon! I had a pretty much complete list made up but some of the parts eluded me. I think it would be nice to have this "new to class A" thread
Guido:
Which FREDs would work well with this amp?? |
|
|
| thomaseliot |
Hi Guido,
Thanks for the link. Amp enclosure would be next step, after we'll appreciate first sounds.
I would go with good ordinary components like these:
Not yet time to go better than the model :)
Have you a Digikey number for diodes you hint?
Hi Peter,
all resistors in part list above are Panasonic. Where can I find Dale resistors on line? |
|
|
| Peter Daniel |
| Dales can be sourced from Mouser. |
|
|
| trango |
| quote: | | all resistors in part list above are Panasonic. Where can I find Dale resistors on line? |
Since you live in Europe you may consider
http://www.schuro.de |
|
|
| thomaseliot |
Thanks Trango.
here is alternative DALE resistors part list for 1/4W resistors found in http://www.schuro.de/preisl-cmf-55-1.htm. I couldn't find same component on other on line catalogues.
n. 2 - 852400 CMF-55-143 100 Ohm 0,1%, TK25 0,738 € 1,476
n. 2 - 852494 CMF-55-143 22,1 KOhm 0,1%, TK25 0,738 € 1,476
n. 4 - 852409 CMF-55-143 221 Ohm 0,1%, TK25 0,738 € 2,952
n. 4 - 852411 CMF-55-143 1,5 KOhm 0,1%, TK25 0,738 € 2,952
n. 2 - 852417 CMF-55-143 1 KOhm 0,1%, TK25 0,738 € 1,476
n. 2 - 852486 CMF-55-143 3,32 KOhm 0,1%, TK25 0,738 € 1,476
n. 2 - 852444 CMF-55-143 9,09 KOhm 0,1%, TK25 0,738 € 1,476
n. 2 - 852391 CMF-55-143 47,5 KOhm 0,1%, TK25 0,738 € 1,476
n. 2 - 852459 CMF-55-143 33,2 KOhm 0,1%, TK25 0,738 € 1,476
TOTAL € 16,236
F3 (see picture above) has an ordinary bridge rectifier, what do you think?
For 3W resistors ar OK the Panasonic above? |
|
|
| GeWa |
These are my boards.
I do need to finish this amp but there's always stuff coming up that prevents me from doing so! :bawling:
Regards |
|
|
| thomaseliot |
| quote: | Originally posted by GeWa
These are my boards.
I do need to finish this amp but there's always stuff coming up that prevents me from doing so! :bawling:
Regards |
Hi GeWa,
waiting for TAS5162 you have some time for this project :)
Are the same components of the part list you published time ago? (Looks like something is thifferent). What do you think about the part list in the previous page?
Ciao
Thomas |
|
|
| trango |
thomaseliot, thanks for the summary of the Dale resistors. Schuro also have Slit Foil caps that I think I will order for the C1 on the amp card.
/Trango |
|
|
| GeWa |
Thomas
| quote: | | waiting for TAS5162 you have some time for this project |
Aahh, somebody who's keeping good track of things ;)
I already have the TAS5162 but not the rest that has to go with it.
The only parts I've changed in the meantime are the capacitors. C1 is a Jensen 4 pole, C2/C3/C4 are Elna Cerafine's and C5/C9 are Elna Silmic II.
The BOM in the previous page is basically the same as I used in the beginning. Nothing wrong with it.
Regards |
|
|
| GuidoR |
Hi all.
Digikey reference for the IXYS: DSEI8-06A-ND (8A 600V in TO220 case, .91 Euro each).
sts9fan: I admit, I'm not a technician, I know FREDs only by their fame...
Trango, I have a bad experience with Schuro: waited for a reply from them for two months, an e-mail remainder a week, but no reply at all: maybe my order (abt 120 Euro) was't big enough...
In any case, I prefer Digikey: fast and with "correct" prices.
Guido |
|
|
| thomaseliot |
Yes Shuro doesn't answer to email. Somebody knows Shuro Bank Account? Maybe If I wire money together with an order they answer.
Maybe I go with ordinary Panasonic 1% metal film from Digikey.
Guido,
Thanks for the part number. I will add to part list. I've to confess I have some doubts on how to mount these TO220 on Veteran PS board. Will you help? |
|
|
| steenoe |
Its not TO220's, they are smaller than that. I dont know if you found my old thread or if you didnt find any usefull informartion in there? Take a look at the pic's I posted, long time ago, could be usefull for you??
Steen:cool: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/show...7384&highlight= |
|
|
| thomaseliot |
Hi Steen,
of course I looked at your first built Zen V9. For that I'm here :)
I want to copy your boards put flat on cabinet sides in an enclosure like this:
Your resistors are metal film 1% ? |
|
|
| steenoe |
| quote: | | Your resistors are metal film 1% ? |
Yep 1% metalfilm's allright. I dont think that the BOM is so important afterall. Just pop in the best value that you have!
Steen:)
Hey, that chassis looks great:cool: |
|
|
| thomaseliot |
| quote: | Originally posted by steenoe
I dont think that the BOM is so important afterall. Just pop in the best value that you have!
Steen:)
|
Thanks Steen, that was what I needed to read. I order soon the part list in the previous page from Digikey, and the chassis shown above. |
|
|
| trango |
Hi,
I will also use the HiFi2000 chassis. I've used them for all may electronic projects so far and I'm quite satisfied with the quality, which is not perfect, but good enough! I plan to build 4 channels of Zv9 in two separate chassis. These will be combined with 4 channels of UcD180AD (to drive my woofers) in the same chassie (i.e 2 channels Zv9 and 2 channels UcD in each chassis). My main concern (besides to mention UcDs in this forum ;)), is the temperature of the chassis which will be around 60-65 degrees. I don't know if the UcDs can stand such high temperature for and extended time. Does anyone have an opinion? I've get no answers from the ClassD forum... |
|
|
| thomaseliot |
| quote: | Originally posted by steenoe
Yep 1% metalfilm's allright. I dont think that the BOM is so important afterall. Just pop in the best value that you have!
Steen:)
Hey, that chassis looks great:cool: |
May I ask how to implement a LED for the front of chassis? |
|
|
| steenoe |
Here is a nice little calculator for the current limiting resistor for LED's: http://www.penguinlovers.net/audio/...ster_value.html
You can power the LED from a convenient place in the psu. The first set of caps in the raw psu, would be a good place. (Before the regulator)
Steen:) |
|
|
| thomaseliot |
Thanks Steen, kind as usual :)
To the part list have to be added 2 lines (from DigiKey catalogue):
2 pcs 67-1751-ND LED 5MM BLUE/BLUE DIFF LENS 0 1,80000 €3,60
5 pcs PPC13.3KXCT-ND RES 13.3K OHM METAL FILM .50W 1% 0 0,15600 €0,78
I calculated 50V for 30mA low intensity blu led. |
|
|
| Paul Ebert |
| Does anyone know if the HIFI2000 enclosures are available in the USA (or could be shipped here for not too much expense)? |
|
|
| thomaseliot |
| quote: | Originally posted by Paul Ebert
Does anyone know if the HIFI2000 enclosures are available in the USA (or could be shipped here for not too much expense)? |
I buy hifi2000 enclosures from www.audiokit.it . They can ship to USA but the enclosure i ordered is 7,3 KG (16.3 lbs): take a look UPS site for the cost.
P.S.
I checked the price in www.poste.it : to NY USA it is 93€ :( |
|
|
| steenoe |
| quote: | | hifi2000 enclosures |
The Slimline series with 10 mm faceplate looks pretty cool too:)
Steen:) |
|
|
| thomaseliot |
| quote: | Originally posted by steenoe
The Slimline series with 10 mm faceplate looks pretty cool too:)
Steen:) |
Hi Steen,
Slim line has no heat sinks. €93 is delivery costs to USA. |
|
|
| steenoe |
| quote: | | Slim line has no heat sinks. |
Nope, but since you need an active preamp for the ZenV9, a BoZ would look nice in that chassis;) A BoZ would be a nice mate for the ZenV9. That is the preamp I like best with the Zen9, really dynamic and nice sounding.
Steen:)
BTW Talking about chassis, take a look at these:
http://www.thlaudio.com/casebpwrE.htm
The PRAL-30267F All Alum. Chassis for Pre. amp. would really be something for a BoZ:cool: Watch the dimensions though, its not
big'ish. |
|
|
| thomaseliot |
Well, the easy work is done. Just the pot is different from part list (where it is in the wrong size), and the Mundorf mcap I had at home already.
Here is the ps. A little doubt: is the rectifier in the right side?
Now I'm waiting for transformer and chassis.
Steen, maybe I don't need an active preamp, as I have 96dB speakers :) |
|
|
| steenoe |
| quote: | | is the rectifier in the right side? |
That doesnt matter much as long as you watch the polarity. It seems like you have connected the rectifier in the intended end with the bleeder resistor. What value did you use for the bleeder?
The boards are great looking:)
About the active preamp, I am not sure you can be without?. You will find out when you connect the amp for a listen though:)
Steen :cool: |
|
|
| thomaseliot |
| quote: | Originally posted by steenoe
What value did you use for the bleeder? |
It is 2.2K.
Do you think the preamp is needed for power? I have a 5W t-amp and I can shake windows with my fostex fe206 :)
Ciao
Thomas
P.S.
Chassis from thlaudio are wonderful. |
|
|
| steenoe |
| quote: | | Do you think the preamp is needed for power? |
Hmmm, Yes. Its just that the ZenV9 needs some output-voltage swing from the source to put out the 15 watts. My guestimate is around 4-5 volts for full output. Most CD players can deliver in the neighborhood of 2 volts. My X'ed BosoZ with the pot wired at the output is no good, but since using the X'ed in single-ended out I have allready halved the outputswing. So this leads me to think that a preamp is needed, and the BoZ is a shotgun;) Drives anything with ease. My speakers are not really efficient though, so you could try without the preamp.
Steen:)
BTW Here is a source for BoZ pcb's:
http://basaudio.net/various.htm |
|
|
| thomaseliot |
| Thanks for the link. I'll think at it. Just hope I'll be able to make sound this zen amp. |
|
|
| trango |
Looks very nice!
It would be very interesting to know how warm the HiFi2000 chassis get?
This week I've ordered one of the larger chassis with heatsinks, the height is 16 cm and the depth is 40 cm.
I cant wait to start building my own Zv9! |
|
|
| mach.88 |
Hello everyone,
is there anyone who would be willing to share a leftover stereoset of Veteran´s Zv9 boards?
Thanks!!!
Chris |
|
|
| thomaseliot |
As I was requested, I post again the Zen 9 part list I used for the modules shown above:
corrected some errors and raplaced the Pot with the right size one.
I got a beautiful HIFI2000 all black chassis with handles and huge heat sinks, while I'm still waiting for the transformer. |
|
|
| Onvinyl |
Hi,
what caps do you european fellows use with the boards (and where to buy)?
I have BC-Components (ex-Philips) 10mF/63V and they don't fit pinwise.
thanks,
Rüdiger |
|
|
| steenoe |
Hi Rudiger, RS components has several Panasonic types. The board is layed out for standard 10mm snap-in (assuming you mean C1 on the main board) Here is a link:
RS- online snap-in caps
Steen:) |
|
|
| thomaseliot |
Caps from Digikey are cheaper for us in Europe. Same Panasonic TSHA 10000 uF cost more than 8€ from RS or Farnell, while 6,7€ from Digikey. Farnell is cheaper than RS.
Hi Steen,
I got all materials. ZV9 boards and PS are ready, a big 500VA transformer 2x35VDC is here, and chassis, binding posts and I've printed already PassDIY and ZENv9 stickers.
Now I can't postpone anymore the first amps test for the fear to fry them (they are su cute :) )....
Have you any hint how to proceed? (Maybe a 12V supply to start?)
I know other PassDIY newbees have these doubts.
Then there is the POT: how to behave with this?
Ciao
Thomas |
|
|
| steenoe |
| quote: | | Have you any hint how to proceed? |
If you want to be carefull, you can use the Lightbulb method to start the amp.
I dont remember where it is described, but I am sure it is here on DIYaudio somewhere. I just fired up 1 channel at the time, but I am pretty reckless:D | quote: | | Then there is the POT: how to behave with this? |
P1 is adjusted to get 1/2 the DC supply voltage at the output. (Before the outputcap:D Hopefully there isnt any DC at the speakerterminals) First measure your actual supply voltage, then adjust the trimpot till you get a reading of half of that.
Readjust after the amp has cooked for an hour or so.
Its always pretty exciting to fire up an amp the first time and a great thrill when it plays music too:) Good luck.
Steen:) |
|
|
| trango |
| quote: | | Now I can't postpone anymore the first amps test for the fear to fry them (they are su cute ).... |
Good luck! |
|
|
| thomaseliot |
| quote: | Originally posted by steenoe
Its always pretty exciting to fire up an amp the first time and a great thrill (when) IF it plays music too :clown: |
|
|
|
| icewall |
I'm sitting at work - just lokking at the boards lying in front of me. ;)
Good Luck! |
|
|
| steenoe |
| quote: | | IF it plays music too |
:clown:
Offcourse it does:D And I am certain that the ZenV9 is a great mate for your efficient speakers, Thomas. I am pretty sure that you will like it a lot:)
Steen:cool: |
|
|
| sts9fan |
| digikey seems to be out of BC1602-ND for C7. Can someone suggest an alterative? Thanks for your help! |
|
|
| farl |
please help...... where can i get the LU1014 JFET.
Farley |
|
|
| dviswa |
Hi All,
Looking at those Hifi2000 cases makes me drool.
Looking at the shipping cost makes me :mad: :bawling:
Somebody please point me to a cabinet I can buy here in the US.
I have the heatsinks, transformer, board and the FET, once i get the chasis, I can join the party :D
Thanks |
|
|
| ZAC1 |
Hallo Patrick,
I need 10 of LU1014 so how can I get it?
Thanks
Zeljko |
|
|
| ZAC1 |
Hallo Patrick,
Sorry but I am new member and cannot sand You mail so if you can calculate with my 10 LU's (or send me your e-mail) I'll be glad.
Thank you! |
|
|
| EUVL |
As far as I know, no one has yet published the Id vs Vgs curves for the LU1014D at about 1A, other than the curves in the datasheet.
I did that today, and here is one typical result. A 1-ohm 10W metal foil resistor is connected to the source to measure current (see Nelson"s ZV9 article, Fig. 10). Voltage from Drain to 1R resistor free end is 3V. Gate is connected to 0V via 1 500R resistor, and driven by a unctions generator with a 100Hz triangular wave between -2V and +1V.
Merry Christmas,
Patrick |
|
|
| Zen Mod |
| quote: | Originally posted by EUVL
As far as I know, no one has yet published the Id vs Vgs curves for the LU1014D at about 1A, other than the curves in the datasheet.
I did that today, and here is one typical result. A 1-ohm 10W metal foil resistor is connected to the source to measure current (see Nelson"s ZV9 article, Fig. 10). Voltage from Drain to 1R resistor free end is 3V. Gate is connected to 0V via 1 500R resistor, and driven by a unctions generator with a 100Hz triangular wave between -2V and +1V.
Merry Christmas,
Patrick |
tnx for X-mass present ;) |
|
|
| thomaseliot |
Xmas has gone, time to finish this project.
New chassis from HIFI2000 is here and mounted:
 |
|
|
| thomaseliot |
There is something mounted inside:
 |
|
|
| thomaseliot |
And now the most funny thing.
I've not yet powered up the amp!
I took pleasure building, so delayed the firs test and .... finished the amp before testing it.
This way I had time to take some pictures before sparks and flames :)
 |
|
|
| neil_kaye |
| Can't wait to hear your impressions. And great job on the build |
|
|
| trango |
| That looks very promising! I'm eager to hear your impressions! |
|
|
| steenoe |
| quote: | | I took pleasure building, |
Nice job, Thomas. Thats a fine amp. You could start up one channel at the time to limit the sparks a bit;)
Steen:) |
|
|
| mach.88 |
Hey guys,
nice amp you´ve built yourself.
Please do us and yourself a favour and use a lab-powersuply to first start up your amp. Once you´ve powered it with lowest current slowly allow it to draw more power. If something should go wrong, you will not burn beyound recognition...
Cheers
Chris |
|
|
| thomaseliot |
Thanks for encouragements :)
I've not a lab-PS, but I have a lm317 circuit with a trimmer and a 18VAC transformer. Besides I have a 200W light bulb connected to live main.
What is the minimum voltage to make the amps work?. |
|
|
| Peppe |
Hey Thomas,
very nice work!
It seem you used the same case I did for my Aleph 30 (4U 300mm deep).
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/show...336#post1019336
Zen V9 was my favourite project but my ls 3/5a are 82 dB!
Take a look to the temp too, I got 35° C above the ambient with 104 Watt per channel.
Ciao
Peppe |
|
|
| thomaseliot |
Finally I powered the amp and ................ it works :cheers:
But it was not so simple because I had some problems that maybe others can have. For the first test I used an old CDP, cheap speakers and, overall, a 200W light bulb: this saved one channel from a first short.
Here the circuit for the light bulb:
The bulb light up on powerup, then turns immediately off and, after a few seconds appears a constant weak light. If there is a short on the amp, the bulb doesn't turn off, but remains lit with its normal light.
This was the case for the right channel. I dismounted the amp, checked components, soldered again mosfets and cleaned the board with a toothbrush. On next try both channel worked.
Then I "cooked" the amp for an hour to fix the voltage trhough the pot P1 when heatsinks are hot: nice trial if you don't have a multimeter with small clips like Steen. I found that R18 (the side toward center of the board) and R7 (toward the edge) are good sites where to anchor ordinary "crocodiles".
With 35Vac I get 45Vdc at amp input, so I fixed the voltage measured as above at 22.5V.
Finally I mounted again the chassis and on a final test without light bulb............ again a short on the right channel, whith smoke coming trough cover holes.
Well, I discovered that tha cause of the shorts are the standoffs of the PS. The smoke came from the for 3w resistors that now are baked. The amp would be save.
Now I've to wait monday to buy new resistors and PLASTIC standoffs. |
|
|
| thomaseliot |
I'm proud to present to you my Zen v9 nicely playing his first string quartet :D
Stickers are there for a try and will be replaced by a serigraphy.
The problem was solved empirically. The short had to do with mosfets, not standoffs. By unscrewing mosfets from heatsink, the short was away. So I just put on ceramic insulators and the amp works. Is there something to know on how properly fix mosfets to heatsink? I'd like this amp to last :)
Now the sound.
It's playing his first hour of music so it is not yet at its best, but it is .... incredible.
The first surprise is the absolute silence at power up. With volume all open there is no noise. Drivers look like dead at 50 cm and have real weak hum with the ear at 10 cm. Star ground works :D. The source is a PC with EMU1212M through an external Wolfson dac: if I had a doubt that the PC is noisy this is a nice evidence that it is not.
What is incredible with the first music playing is the bandwidth: in a simple string quartet there are more sounds on violins highest harmonics and cello lowest string. And more sounds in the middle in a fascinating detail.
With my Fostex FE206 96db, I can play the quartet at live volume with the pot at 2 o'clock, so the power is enough. Tomorrow I'll try big orchestras :D
Next days I'll post more detailed impressions on sound with my reference recordings, but with what I listened today I can say already that this was really an experience to do, for us coming from Class D.
May I risk an evaluation? This amp overshoots largely my UCD180 on its best qualities: clarity and exacteness of sounds. Funny is that I spended half the money with this Zen :xeye:. |
|
|
| steenoe |
Congrats, Thomas. Nice that everything worked out. I agree that its amazing, how good sound one gets from the ZenV9 for the invested $$. Mr Pass is the greatest gift for the DIY community, ever:) I am in the process of making a pair of efficient speakers at the moment, when they are finished; the ZenV9 will be pulled out again. I will try it without feedback also. Interesting stuff:) | quote: | | Is there something to know on how properly fix mosfets to heatsink? |
As long as they are bolted tightly to the heatsink with a locking washer under the screw-head, you should be fine. Thats assuming that the ceramic insulators are good enough, which they probably are.
How did you make that nice "ZenV9" sticker?
Thomas, your amp will look good in any livingroom. Well done.
Steen:) |
|
|
| Mjjg |
| quote: | | Is there something to know on how properly fix mosfets to heatsink? |
I believe this (below) is a good article about transistor mounting and heatsinks in general. Though I agree that a screw and a washer will work just fine, you might increase reliability and life span of the transistors if you use some more elaborate way of mounting the transistors.
http://www.sound.westhost.com/heatsinks.htm
A really nice work by the way. I myself am just in the planning stage right now. I envy each and everyone that have a working Zen 1-9.:xeye: |
|
|
| thomaseliot |
| quote: | Originally posted by steenoe
How did you make that nice "ZenV9" sticker?
Steen:) |
Hi Steen.
Thanks. Here attached is the file for stickers with enough resolution for a serigraphy. The yellow "Zen" would be gold colour, but with your aluminium front plate I would go with Black or dark grey.
What speakers are you planning?
Mjjg, thanks for the link and for the envy :) . |
|
|
| steenoe |
Thanks for the PDF:) Nice work on that logo.| quote: | | What speakers are you planning? |
Some of the DIY'ers around here has got together, and are working on some Abby clones, with Fostex FE166E drivers. I was offered to join them for a pair of cabinets and ofcourse said yes. I dont have to do any work (for a change:D ), so that was an easy decision;)
For starters it will be those, but future plans might include some other cabinets like the BIB or maybe backloaded horns.
Steen:) |
|
|
| neil_kaye |
Fantastic. Looking forward to a full review. Please post more pics if you have.
You have given more a push to finish mine. Thanks for all the help along the way |
|
|
| trango |
That really looks very good! I've decided to start building mine.
I'm going for four channels but I only have two PSU cards, so I would like to use 15000 uF caps. These are the ones I'm choosing from
Panasonic TUP
Panasonic THA
United Chemi Con
Cornell Dubillier
Any suggestions or should I just pick the cheapest?
/Trango |
|
|
| Zen Mod |
| quote: | Originally posted by trango
That really looks very good! I've decided to start building mine.
I'm going for four channels but I only have two PSU cards, so I would like to use 15000 uF caps. These are the ones I'm choosing from
Panasonic TUP
Panasonic THA
United Chemi Con
Cornell Dubillier
Any suggestions or should I just pick the cheapest?
/Trango |
"just pick the cheapest" |
|
|
| steenoe |
| quote: | | "just pick the cheapest" |
Yep, but check the datecode if its surplus. Those Chemicons can easily be 10-15 years old or more.
Steen:) |
|
|
| trango |
Thanks!
Order placed!
/Fredrik |
|
|
| thomaseliot |
Hi,
As promised I'm back with some sonic impressions about ZenV9 after some hours of listening. I can confirm that power is enough in a "Zen" system configuration without pre: SPDIF from PC (truly Toslink, so there is not a ground in common) => DAC => ZenV9 => Fostex FE206E.
Nevertheless a 5W T-Amp sounds louder in this system, what disappointed me at the beginning. So, as I'm an ugly guy, I selected the third movement of Mahler's 2nd symphony to see how ZV9 would behave. The T-Amp can't reproduce it well, because if you set volume so that weakest sounds are well audible then, when it comes with the big orchestra, with all double basses and brass reinforced by kettledrums, the amp starts emitting confused and distorted sounds.
Here arrived the surprise with ZV9. With the big orchestra came out thick sounds and deep double basses together with crystal sounds of bows and trumpets, in a very clear image. Not so loud to shake windows, but enough to feel basses in the chest. So I comprised: Zen amp spreads the power in a natural way, while I'm used to amps that boost the middle range (many recordings too do that) to give the impression of a louder sound.
This leads to another impressive character of this Zen: the coherence of sound. With this I mean only the relative loudness of each instrument with respect to others. Good example of incoherent sounds are many recordings of concerts for violin and orchestra, where the violin sounds louder than all the bows together. If you want a thick sound of double bass in a small room then a flute must sound weak. That's what Zen9 does, but without any sacrifice in detail and resolution.
To test an amp detail I'm used to play voices "a cappella": the test is easy, just count the voices. But this task was too easy for Zen9, so I went to Liszt's Etudes trascendentales for piano solo (Arrau). These are always boring if you don't listen to a live piano, because there is nothing to listen but only the beauty of all sound you can get out from a piano.
Here another surprise, for what I think is the best character of Zen9: the beauty of each single sound. It has so much detail that you can enjoy all resonances and reverb of each single note, which is what is needed to enjoy Liszt studies. I repeated the experiment with similar boring studies for solo violin (Ysaye) and solo cello (Shostakovic) and I couldn't stop listening. I think ZenV9 is a jewel to use like a 12 years old cognac, in silent nights, when you want to savour rich sounds, instead of just listen. |
|
|
| neil_kaye |
Thomaseliot,
I had a similar listening impression when i compared by gainclone (LM3875) to mt T-amp. I found the t-amp had more thrust, ecspecially in the bass but lacked teh seperation and clarity that was immediatley apparent from the gainclone. Over time i forgot or got over my need for oomph and have truly begun to appreciate the honesty of the gainclone. It is so revealing that i have all but given up listening to old MP3 (recorded at bit rates less then 196kbs) as the msuic lack so much seperation.
From your impressions i really want to hurry up and finish up my zen (man this chassy i staking for ever). I sounds wonderful.
Good job |
|
|
| sts9fan |
Can somebody explain C5 in the PS for me? I have the boards and all the parts but this cap does not seem to be on the schematic from veteran.
Thanks |
|
|
| thomaseliot |
Hi Neil,
I used the T-Amp comparison only for perceived SPL out of a 5W amp. I know some people have done good mods to it but, as is, it is impressive for size and price.
Another world are more powerful Tripath amps. My reference are a couple of amps based on TA2022 (50W, 150W bridged) and one on TA0102A (100W).
Not yet done a direct comparison to point out differences, I just discovered something never heard in this Zen. Even in some renowned tube amps I know well. Yes, I confess, timbers and clarity are not the best characteristics of Tripath amps, though there is still much to experiment.
I never heard to a gainclone, but I'm sure you'll find something magic in ZenV9, if you have efficient speakers (what is that in your avatar?). |
|
|
| neil_kaye |
My avatar is a pair of Jordan VTL's that i made several years ago. I have a blog which describes most of my DIY projects. It can be found here:
http://web.mac.com/noteldov/iWeb/Ne...te/Welcome.html
Just click on audio projects.
I recently replaced the the Jordan's with a pair of Zu Druids. Since most of the amps that i have built are under 30w i needed a pair of pseaker that were more efficient.
I am very happy with the Druids. |
|
|
| sts9fan |
Can somebody explain C5 in the PS for me? I have the boards and all the parts but this cap does not seem to be on the schematic from veteran.
Thanks |
|
|
| thomaseliot |
| quote: | Originally posted by sts9fan
Can somebody explain C5 in the PS for me? I have the boards and all the parts but this cap does not seem to be on the schematic from veteran.
Thanks |
Hi,
I found the cap in one part list from GEWA. It is not in Veteran's schematic, but on PS board there is a symbol of a cap on output side.
I used this because usually, in PS, there is always a small 0.1uF cap to filter hi-freq.
Neil,
sumptuous objects in your site. I'm sure you'll be really impressed with Zen+Jordans. Where can I find those nice VUmeters? |
|
|
| dviswa |
Hi Guys,
I am planning on using FRED diodes (DIGIKEY DSEI30-06A-ND) for the supply. Can somebody who has used descrete diodes (TO-247) please tell me if the they need heat sink.
Thanks,
Dinesh |
|
|
| sandstorm33 |
| Hi-Anybody have spare boards for the ZV9??? Have money or toroids for trade!!! #1 2x28vac 1.68amps #2 2x22vac 1.28amp #3 2x18vac (hafler d110) All are new with washers and mtg discs. Also 20uf polypro's . |
|
|
| meanman1964 |
| What toroid do I need for my ZV9?What't the max-Ac-voltage that I could use? |
|
|
| doggy |
I have a plitron trans. from a 4780 gainclone, what range of power supply voltage can be used for this amp? and what is a workable va rating?
Thanks, Looking for a new project, just finished an A30 |
|
|
| thomaseliot |
| quote: | Originally posted by doggy
I have a plitron trans. from a 4780 gainclone, what range of power supply voltage can be used for this amp? and what is a workable va rating? |
Everybody used a 50VDC PS with 150VA to 300VA for each channel. |
|
|
| meanman1964 |
| I have 2 toroids of 2x30V/300VA,are those suitable to use? |
|
|
| thomaseliot |
| quote: | Originally posted by meanman1964
I have 2 toroids of 2x30V/300VA,are those suitable to use? |
You get ~20% less than max ZV9 power that is 14W. |
|
|
| farl |
Can i use 15000uf for C1 (output caps) instead of 10000uf. I have this one from my Marantz receiver power supply and I want to use it. It is Elna for audio 15000uf 63V.
Thanks |
|
|
| vatofale |
| quote: | Originally posted by thomaseliot
/snip
TRANSFO "R" 500VA 2X36V
This is what I would have bought. Discovered too late... |
That looks like a very nice transformer, any idea who makes them - I need a 240V version |
|
|
| meanman1964 |
| I've a question about Q5(ZTX450)what replacement can I use without changing values of other components but when it's needed what need to be changed? |
|
|
| Babowana |
| quote: | Originally posted by meanman1964
I've a question about Q5(ZTX450)what replacement can I use without changing values of other components but when it's needed what need to be changed?
|
Any small signal npn tr satisfying the followings is useful:
- The same leg marks (ref. to the attached figure)
- Max. Vceo rating greater than 30V
- Max. power dissipation rating greater than 600mW
- Min. dc current gain of 25 or greater (min hFE of ZTX450=100)
- Similar physical size as ZTX450
- The black-color body
I have used KSP42 with success.
Cheers,
:) |
|
|
| meanman1964 |
| Do the output fets need to be matched? |
|
|
| twitchie |
| quote: | Originally posted by Babowana
Any small signal npn tr satisfying the followings is useful:
- The same leg marks (ref. to the attached figure)
- Max. Vceo rating greater than 30V
- Max. power dissipation rating greater than 600mW
- Min. dc current gain of 25 or greater (min hFE of ZTX450=100)
- Similar physical size as ZTX450
- The black-color body
I have used KSP42 with success.
Cheers,
:) |
Thanks for this information Babo. I always feel ripped of for whatever reason when I use ZTX450 and ZTX550, so if I can use 2N5088 (npn and fits all the criteria you mentioned) I'll try it.
ZTX450 is about 8-10x more money than the 2N5088 at digikey
Thanks and good to see you up and about |
|
|
|
