| calico88 |
I just got this speaker and trying to decide what enclosure design to build.
confuse... I need software fro horn design, but which one ?
any reccomendation for start ?
how to ?
best design... well famous or people most talk about particular design ?
help need pls for amateur like me.
regards
cal |
|
|
| Scottmoose |
Generally, you should design a cabinet for your driver, don't try looking around for one and then try to fit the Coral into it.
Of course, that's where we kit a bit of a problem. Because to the best of my knowledge, there isn't a complete set of T/S parameters available for the Coral Beta 8 anywhere on the web. So unless you have the facility to measure them yourself, or can get them measured, we're in the realms of guesswork. Software won't be of any use to you either until you can get them. When you do: Martin King's MathCad worksheets are streets ahead of most other software for the DIYer, plus he has huge white papers and articles on his site: www.quarter-wave.com |
|
|
| lovechild |
Hi
here is the original BL-Horn plan for the Beta 8.
hope that helps,
LC
edit: no TSPs but some facts and sth. to read: here. |
|
|
| calico88 |
Thanks guys for the schematic,
I think I need the best, I need better than the standard Coral Horn Enclosore, I saw many bigger design claim to be better than the standard horn enclosure.
but of course that's not for coral beta 8.
can anyone tell me how to get that bigger horn enclosure for beta 8 ?
well at least how they calculate for certain FR speaker, and I can use my parameter for my beta8.
I wonder if anyone can tell me which one is the best horn enclosure ever built, of course this is relative questions.
no such thing is the ebst..... but you think it's the best.... you know what I man. :)
I got to build this for best enclosure.
cal |
|
|
| Scottmoose |
No such thing I'm afraid. A cabinet is designed for a driver, so what works for one drive-unit doesn't automatically work for another. We're talking Beta 8, right?
You say you want the 'best'? OK, it's possible to either custom design a cabinet, or identify an existing one that will work very well, but you'd need to get your drivers' T/S parameters measured first, or its just a crapshoot. If you don't want to get the drivers measured, and go for a shot in the (relative) dark, then remember bigger is better with horns. GM taught me that. You can always damp it down if it's too much, whereas you can't boost what you don't have in the first place. In which case, a few ideas. Remember, I'm not suggesting these are optimal, just that they'll have a chance of working. No point in going for an optimised design like Ron's Dallas II as you're not using the driver it was optimised for. So, cabinets that might be interesting, and forgiving enough:
1) A ~ 0.6 scaled Tannoy GRF Autograph cabinet.
2) Bruce V1.1 double BVR horn. See toward the end of the Spawn of Frugelhorn thread here.
3) A Nagaoka D-58.
4) If you want to go crackers, double the D-58 by mirroring a second cabinet above it. Hold filter chamber volume as for a single horn, or increase by 10%, reduce the area of each throat by 25% and you're in business. I shudder to think of the weight of this monster though. |
|
|
| calico88 |
thanks for the best info I got so far. :)
I will do the T/S Parameters measure tomorrow, as soon as I got a "nickel" for the weight to test.....
after that then what ?
I saw the Frugelhorn looks good, but I think my coral beta 8 will be twice as that big at least , I love big bad speaker..
I'm reading the thread ... gez so long....
which one do you think is the best for my coral beta 8 those 4 choices you give me ?
haven't seen the rest though... but I like BIB.
btw. just a crazy question, do you think this speaker is possible to put into car ? on the dasboard ?
I saw the original sealerd box which is small, well not small enough, I wonder if there is any "way" to treat/trick the box that can be small ?
just a crazy idea.
I think I need someone to guide me how to learn to build horn/this project.
I just don't have any clue....
regards
cal |
|
|
| Scottmoose |
No idea about the car side of things. Possibly. Bit of a waste though.
A BIB did occur to me, but without the parameters, we have to go generic, and huge. They'll probably work well, but it's not 100% until we have some accurate electrical measurements (Qe, Qm, Bl, Vas, Re are the ones we need).
It's the Spawn of Frugelhorn thread I was thinking of: a series of double horns of which Bruce V1.1 is the largest version. Should match the driver well enough. Currently, of the cabinets I mentioned above, that's the one I'd probably go for. Looks good too. A doubled Nagaoka D-58 would probably be an awe-inspiring system, but would be very large indeed, and cripplingly heavy: unless you've got concrete floors I could see it going straight through it! |
|
|
| calico88 |
thanks again,
I will get the parameters soon, my friend left me the measurement, all I need is find the coin/nickel for wieght measurement tool.
looks like the Frugel horn is your best suggestion here that match to my Coreal Beta 8.
I couldn' tfind the Brice 1.1.
If I got the parameters of my beta 8 then How can I design/adjust the Frigel Horn to match my beta 8 parameter ?
I couldn;t find the plan also.
regards
cal |
|
|
| calico88 |
BTW what do you think about this lhttp://www.speaker-online.de/bauen/naumann/
it's a legent on the 70's ? boy I was 5 years old back then.
any good ?
cal |
|
|
| ulfheden |
| quote: | Originally posted by calico88
BTW what do you think about this lhttp://www.speaker-online.de/bauen/naumann/
it's a legent on the 70's ? boy I was 5 years old back then.
any good ?
cal |
I've used the Schmacks horn with the Coral Beta 8 back in the late 70's. It is an incredible combination. It suffers some coloration like all horns, but the ones I had were made out of chip board. There is a lot of improvements possible with the original plans when it comes to bracing. Mine were made from the original plans with no additional bracing.
It plays classical music very well and rock music amazing. Bass is rock solid. Kick drums have an incredible punch. The only thing missing is the lowest octave.
Original and improved plans here:
http://www.lup-berlin.de/archiv/Bausatz/index.html
If you have the space, build them and be happy :D
/Peter |
|
|
| calico88 |
I downloaded the file H 530/ Schmacks Horn Schmacks Horn mit PSL225ALU;
I coudnlt find the new design or this is the new design ?
are you saying this dimention will fit my coral beta 8 ? no change what soever ?
cal |
|
|
| ulfheden |
| quote: | Originally posted by calico88
I downloaded the file H 530/ Schmacks Horn Schmacks Horn mit PSL225ALU;
I coudnlt find the new design or this is the new design ?
are you saying this dimention will fit my coral beta 8 ? no change what soever ?
cal |
If you take a look at the last file in the archive, schmacks2.jpg, (ought to be a GIF since drawings compress better as GIF, photos compress better as JPG) youll see that there has been som "roundings" added to the path of the horn.
Yes, it will fit. Just take care of the dimension of the baffle hole for the speaker. The speaker is mounted from the outside. Use quite a bit of stuffing in the chamber behind the element for a start.
/Peter |
|
|
| calico88 |
thanks peter,
I will draw with solidworks to check if the speaker will fit perfectly before cutting the wood.
22mm MDF is what I will use.
this is small a box ? I wonder if this is better than BIB ?
I was hoping 2Meter tall of box. :)
If you sure this is "best" for me ... I'll do this.
regards
cal |
|
|
| ulfheden |
| quote: | Originally posted by calico88
thanks peter,
I will draw with solidworks to check if the speaker will fit perfectly before cutting the wood.
22mm MDF is what I will use.
this is small a box ? I wonder if this is better than BIB ?
I was hoping 2Meter tall of box. :)
If you sure this is "best" for me ... I'll do this.
regards
cal |
Well... recommendations is a risky business. :rolleyes: Your milage may vary! I can't of course promise that you will like them. But I can promise you that I'd love to make a pair again. If my Nagaoka D-58s with FE206E that I'm building now don't work out well, I'll might build a pair of Schmacks horns.
/Peter |
|
|
| calico88 |
I have not done the T/S yet, would you guys help me out soon as I got my beta 8 T/S ?
the Bruce 1.1 looks better than Schmacks Horn, well I like bigger, for me bigger box has better sound. (amateur tought like me)
tell me guys, if these 2 speakers are really fit with my beta 8?
do I need to adjust ? which one ?
I will post my T/S soon as I can. may be I have to skip office work.
appriciate your help but I need more :) with T/S and box adjustment base on it
cal |
|
|
| Scottmoose |
| We can tell you when we've got the parameters. The Schmacks is supposed to work already. Bruce should work, as one of my design goals for it was to create a cabinet which would work with as wide a range of drive-units as possible. Only high Q, high Vas drivers (for example the Visaton B200) won't go in, and as the Beta 8 was designed for horn loading, it should not suffer from this problem. |
|
|
| calico88 |
this is the parameter that close to beta 8, I took it from diyparadise.com
this T/S is originally from Coral Flat 8A, should be about the same, what yeo said.
Fo 54Hz
Qms 7.312
Qes 0.52738
Qts 0.4919
Vas 60.319 L
may be you can see something from this.
cal |
|
|
| ulfheden |
| quote: | Originally posted by calico88
this is the parameter that close to beta 8, I took it from diyparadise.com
this T/S is originally from Coral Flat 8A, should be about the same, what yeo said.
|
As I remeber (it was almost 30 years ago) the Flat 8 is different compared to the Beta 8. Smaller magnet. I wouldn't bet on the Flat-8 specs for use as Beta-8 design parameters.
/Peter |
|
|
| ulfheden |
Cal,
You will find some T/S measurements here, scroll downt to the "Coral Corner":
http://de.geocities.com/peter_rehkop/system.html
Grab the excel file. (no, it's not my homepage)
Some more here:
(from: http://www.rahaso.de/foren/msg.php?...&x=1&idx=10946&)
Coral Beta-8, TSPs
Treiber 1 Treiber 2
Sd (cm2) 214
Re (Ohm) 6.85 6.86
Fs (Hz) 53.5 51.4
Qe 0.47 0.43
Qm 4.78 5.06
Qt 0.43 0.40
Vas (l) 79.9 75.2
Mms (g) 7.17 8.29
Cms (mm/N) 1.23 1.16
B*L (N/A) 5.9 6.5
Rms (kg/s) 0.5 0.5
Le (mH) 0.39 0.41
/Peter |
|
|
| Scottmoose |
| Oh, we can have some fun with this! Should drop straight into Bruce, no mods needed. If I get chance to later I'll run a MathCad sim of the cabinet with these drivers. |
|
|
| calico88 |
wow ... that's faster than me, haven't got time to chech T/S yet, no wonder I coudnlt find it.. it's in german.
thanks guys,
Now what .. ?
I saw the sealed, ported box from the reccomendation Coral it self but I don't like them.
I like Big, Horn.... well not to big, about 2 meter tall is my size !
Scottmoose,
with bruce design box, no need mods ata all ?
what do you mean by run mathcad sim ?
sorry my basic question....
let me know what you can do with mathcad .
those T/S can be trusted ? I think thay can, correct me if I'm wrong, they tested 7 times and the average is the number that I should pick... right ?
still confuse which box I should build ? help...
cal |
|
|
| ulfheden |
| quote: | Originally posted by calico88
wow ... that's faster than me, haven't got time to chech T/S yet, no wonder I coudnlt find it.. it's in german.
|
Not the first link. :xeye: Don't miss the the excel sheet,
It's an average of T/S parameters for 8 different drivers!
/Peter
|
|
|
| calico88 |
what's the excel shetet data average for ?
why they test the 8 different driver for ?
this data is what I need right ?
Some more here:
(from: http://www.rahaso.de/foren/msg.php?...&x=1&idx=10946&)
Coral Beta-8, TSPs
Treiber 1 Treiber 2
Sd (cm2) 214
Re (Ohm) 6.85 6.86
Fs (Hz) 53.5 51.4
Qe 0.47 0.43
Qm 4.78 5.06
Qt 0.43 0.40
Vas (l) 79.9 75.2
Mms (g) 7.17 8.29
Cms (mm/N) 1.23 1.16
B*L (N/A) 5.9 6.5
Rms (kg/s) 0.5 0.5
Le (mH) 0.39 0.41
why do I need other's data like the 7 drivers on the excel ?
I don't ?
cal |
|
|
| Scottmoose |
You test a large number of drivers because no two drivers are exactly the same. Generally figures + / - 5% of the average are considered acceptable. That's why you will frequently see the phrase 'pair matching'. Specialist sellers like, for example, Planet10 hifi (Dave), Validator (Thorsten) etc will test a batch of drivers themselves and match them into pairs who's characteristics are as closely aligned as possible.
MathCad refers to Martin J. King's seminal MathCad worksheets, which I use in designing every speaker I come up with. There's a variety -horns, TLs, isobaric, sealed box, open baffle etc.
I ran a quick check. Q of the Coral is a little high to be ideal, so the low frequencies roll off a little below 100Hz, but in some ways that's probably a good thing as Bruce could get a bit hefty with some drivers unless you're careful over setup. You should get a solid 40Hz. The Schmacks horn I've never modelled in MathCad -I really should look into it at some point. It's got plenty of internal volume, so it should do well -by the above accounts it works well enough. |
|
|
| calico88 |
so you suggest Bruce box without any mods ?
and I will get solid 40Hz ?
no mods ?
cal |
|
|
| Scottmoose |
| Should do. If you want a tweak, increase the cabinet width by 1in which should give a bit more volume, which the Coral likes. Otherwise it should perform decently. Of course, there's only so far we can go with simulations -final test will always be in the building! |
|
|
| calico88 |
thanks guys,
now I'm interested in MatchCad,
1. how you test/calculate for this case ? any screen capture ?
2. could someone give me step by step how to do this case with mathcad, I mean like tutorial captureing the screen ?
3. any sample mathcad file ?
scottmoose,
you said final test olways in after the building, so... after building what we can do is play the RTS ? then we know which freq. is "not there" right ?
you said again that every box design you calculate with mathcad, suppose I design the enclosure with Sphere ( no corner at all), this idea can be calculate with mathcad right ?
how do we know that this design will work ? I mean will this sound better than other design ?
now I'm interesting in designing my own.
now I become greedy :)
I think my friend has MatchCad .
cal |
|
|
| calico88 |
I goit the math cad file but I think it's to complex to begin with.
need a files and captures files for start
cal |
|
|
| calico88 |
Scoot,
" Should do. If you want a tweak, increase the cabinet width by 1in which should give a bit more volume, which the Coral likes. Otherwise it should perform decently."
increse the width by 1 inch, so it become 11 inch right ?
just make sure, so I think I decide to build this Bruce 1.1
do you think thicker MDF will be better ?
cal |
|
|
|
