| kazoo |
Well I had one of the kids pinch the dust caps on one of the 127E BIBs so decided to cut out the dust cap and istall a phase plug. Here is a little write up to explain it if someone else needs to try it. I looked at Planet 10's site for the warnings and some ideas of what I was getting into. Also look at the diagram on his site of the speaker to see where the voice coil wires are and how they are routed. To let you know it was not too bad cutting the cap out, so here we go.
If you look at the front of the speaker you will notice the white glue that holds the voice coil wires to the cone. If you follow them at a slite angle towards the dust cap that is where the voice coil wires should be. I started cutting the top of the cap using a very sharp razor knife. I kept cutting at it until i reached the black glue line that holds the cap on. The only part I did not cut all the way down to the black glue line is where the voice coil wires are. I left a big chunk of the dust cap there so I would not cut the wires. Once you get to the point that there is hardly any dust cap left except for part of it by the voice coil wires you can pull the cap carefully off the speaker and it should let go easy. All you should have left behind is the hard paper tube that has the voice coil wire wrapped around it with alot of paper fuzz on it. Now what I did so I could see the wires is I started scrapping at the tube using the knife where I thought the wires were. If you do this gently in a little while you will see a copper wire start to shine through the paper and you will see the edge of it. Then do a little more clean up around the wires leaving little bumps where they are so they don't get cut. Now you are done. Put in the phase plug and see what they sound like. Attached are some pictures of the final results. I forgot to take pictures during the process but the final pictures will show where the voice coil wires are and what they will look like after you cut around them. If you have any questions let me know especially if I need to explain something more clearly and as always do this at your own risk. |
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| Svein_B |
Nice (and brave) surgical procedure !
Did you use the Planet10 phase plugs for the FE103/108?
According to Planet10:| quote: | | The void between the dustcap & the voicecoil former is filled with a black glue -- in all 4 cases some of this gets on the inside of the voice coil former as well. This overspill rubs against the phase plug so it's removal is necessary. ... |
From your picture 2 above, i do not see any traces of glue on the inside of the voicecoil former. Was there no such problem on your drivers? - maybe it depends on production series?
SveinB |
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| Scottmoose |
| Very interesting. You're a braver man than I am! Though... if we can solve this black glue business, I might try it on my 126s, which are already heavily modified by Dave, to the extent where they give Sigmas a fright. |
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| kazoo |
| quote: | Originally posted by Svein_B
Nice (and brave) surgical procedure !
Did you use the Planet10 phase plugs for the FE103/108?
According to Planet10:
From your picture 2 above, i do not see any traces of glue on the inside of the voicecoil former. Was there no such problem on your drivers? - maybe it depends on production series?
SveinB |
Hi Svein_B
No, I do a little wood working so I made my own phase plug but to Planet10's specification. In one of the post he mentioned how he measures them so they look the way they do. I bet that if you told him you need one for this speaker or a custom one he would create one for you. I hope I am not stepping on Daves toes with that comment.
When I did this I did not see any glue on the inside. It could be a certain run of speaker or maybe they redesigned them so it would not happen. One thing I did notice is that there should be no way glue gets inside the the tube that holds the voice coil wire. The reason I say that is becasue when I was cutting the cap off to the black glue line I was also cutting a little of the paper tube that holds the voice coil wire. If you notice the bumps on the pictures that is where the wire goes up and over the tube. So from that I guess I cut about an 1/8" off the tube. So unless they really got sloppy with the glue they would have to go over that lip and inside. But I did not see any glue on the inside. So I guess they must have fixed it. |
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| kazoo |
| quote: | Originally posted by Scottmoose
Very interesting. You're a braver man than I am! Though... if we can solve this black glue business, I might try it on my 126s, which are already heavily modified by Dave, to the extent where they give Sigmas a fright. |
Hi Scottmoose,
Like I mentioned in the post above I did not see any black glue inside the voice coil tube. I tried to order some of the modified 127s from Dave for the Fonken project but put them in the BIBs to break in until I made them. But I did not get a response so ordered the stock ones from somewhere else. Like I mentioned I had to do this because the cap was crushed and I could not stand looking at it. I bought these about 3 months ago so Fostex could have changed their production. |
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| Scottmoose |
| Interesting. I'm surprised you didn't hear from Dave though -your email must've got lost somewhere along the line. My 126s are from a recent batch Dave ordered so it might well be possible with these too. I'll look into it. |
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| vinylkid58 |
I'm going to try this with my 127's also. Our Sheba puppy decided to give the dust caps a little nibble. They are still intact but look awful. I'm also working on a pair of Fonkens; they are slightly different from the box plans on Dave's site.
Excellent job installing the phase plugs BTW, and thanks for the info.:)
Keep us posted on your Fonken progress.
Jeff |
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| widman |
The dust caps on the 126s and 127s must be very inviting. I didn't even have 5 hours on my speakers before my son's friend popped one in.
I poked a hole in the tip with a pin and pulled it back out with a piece of wire. Then I sealed the hole with glue. Now I really need to do the puzzlecoat mod and hid the discoloration.
pete |
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| gychang |
opinions on the sound quality after the mod?
thanks,
gychang |
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| vinylkid58 |
| quote: | Originally posted by widman
The dust caps on the 126s and 127s must be very inviting. I didn't even have 5 hours on my speakers before my son's friend popped one in.
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Kids just love to poke at speakers for some unknown reason. I've seen this happen to all kinds of drivers; even dome tweeters, which don't take kindly to such abuse. Some kind of protective covering is a must with small children around, or puppies.;)
Jeff |
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| widman |
I was actually thinking about a protective covering on the kid. Then I don't need to worry about the effect of a grille over my speakers.
pete |
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| planet10 |
| quote: | | Originally posted by kazoo I bet that if you told him you need one for this speaker or a custom one he would create one for you. I hope I am not stepping on Daves toes with that comment. |
The new FE108eS plugs are actually the same as the prototypes for the FE127. The plug needs to be a bit longer than the stock 103/1197 plug.
I'm excited that you found success. I may try this again. I'm pretty gun-shy after loosing 4 out of 4, but -- even with the scraping from the black goop at high levels -- the plugs make an improvement. It was clearing up that last scrapping problem that lead to the death of our 127s. I'm glad their death has produced some positive results.
dave |
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| planet10 |
| quote: | Originally posted by kazoo
I tried to order some of the modified 127s from Dave ... but I did not get a response |
That would only have been because the mail didn't get thru. It is a crime that SPAM & the resultant antiSPAM have made email an unreliable communication medium sometimes.
I have modded FE127 in stock & ready to ship. 126s might take a bit longer, i'm working thru the next batch.
dave |
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| Scottmoose |
| I can vouch for the 126s. Elsewhere I described them as being a bit like a baby version of those modified Decware 206s. They're almost as good as the Sigmas, and probably have an edge in the bass. With plugs in them... I'll have to think about it. |
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| niiico |
| quote: | Originally posted by widman
The dust caps on the 126s and 127s must be very inviting. I didn't even have 5 hours on my speakers before my son's friend popped one in. |
It's true with every speaker... Mine have also suffered sometimes.
But I think it's an educational problem. My daughters did touch them only once. After explaining 'em firmly why they shouldn't, they never did it again.
The general problem is with my friend child or my daughters friends... :bawling:
I found one solution : the tweeters are soft domes and I have phase plugs in the boomers :) It only let some fingerprints on them when they touch it...
| quote: | I poked a hole in the tip with a pin and pulled it back out with a piece of wire. Then I sealed the hole with glue. Now I really need to do the puzzlecoat mod and hid the discoloration.
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Did you try a vaccum cleaner? It works very well on mine old speakers. You gently approach the bare tube closer and closer without touching the speaker until the cap comes back. |
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| widman |
There are quite a few threads about popping out a crushed dust cap and I tried some of the suggestions. The dust cap on the FE126 is fairly stiff and wouldn't pull back out with either a vacuum or tape.
I agree on the education point. Both my kids understand that speakers are for listening, not touching.
pete |
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| kazoo |
| quote: | Originally posted by gychang
opinions on the sound quality after the mod?
thanks,
gychang |
Hi gychang,
At the time I did the dust cap removal, I had only about 150 hours of playing time on them. To my ears the phase plug smoothed out the higher frequencies. It made the speaker easier to listen to. They are in the BIBs right now and sounding pretty good. |
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| kazoo |
| quote: | Originally posted by planet10
That would only have been because the mail didn't get thru. It is a crime that SPAM & the resultant antiSPAM have made email an unreliable communication medium sometimes.
I have modded FE127 in stock & ready to ship. 126s might take a bit longer, i'm working thru the next batch.
dave |
Hi Dave,
That is what I thought. I was using my work email an it probably looked like spam. I just wanted to know how much they are (127). If you don't mind can you post the price here. Like I mentioned they were originaly going into the Fonkens but ended up in the BIBs to break in. So I need another pair anyway. I am making the Fonkens for the the kids room right now and they are helping to make them. Can't wait to see what they sound like. |
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| planet10 |
| quote: | Originally posted by kazoo
how much they are (127). If you don't mind can you post the price here. |
$130 CAD/pr (~$115 USD) + post + applicable taxes in Canada.
dave |
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| Scottmoose |
| And just to repeat from a very satisfied customer: the standard drivers are great. But Dave's mods elevate them into another league entirely. They're worth every penny. |
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| kazoo |
| quote: | Originally posted by planet10
$130 CAD/pr (~$115 USD) + post + applicable taxes in Canada.
dave |
Hi Dave,
The price looks good. Now I just have to find a way to get my info to you. I will try to use the wifes email to see if that will work. Talk to you soon,
John |
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| planet10 |
I've a zillion email addresses.... and i have a toll-free telephone number.
On the planetsofta web page.
dave |
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| dfreemansc |
...and lived to tell the tale!
Having the luxury of a fried driver to practice on gave me the courage to 'butcher' my 126's.
There was some glue on the inside of the VC tube, but cutting approx 1/8" off the end of the tube removed this.
I initially left the 'nibs' as suggested earlier, but then I experimented with the 'dead' driver a little further, and managed to remove these completely without hitting wire, so crossed my fingers and did the same on my 'best' drivers, with no ill-effects.
The result? Much more refined and detailed treble (albeit a little less of it).
A mod worth doing IMHO.
PS Apologies to Dave - I 'borrowed' your Dammar mod and redid it in Mod Podge (I didn't have any Dammar!). |
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| gychang |
| quote: | Originally posted by dfreemansc
A mod worth doing IMHO.
PS Apologies to Dave - I 'borrowed' your Dammar mod and redid it in Mod Podge (I didn't have any Dammar!). |
What is Dammar mod for the speaker I have been hearing about. Is there a website re this?
thanks,
gychang |
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| dhumke |
| That is a brave mod, kazoo. Can you describe how the sound has changed? I have a pair of FE127's I built using plans from the Timinator, and they sound great, but could maybe be a little less crashy. I was thinking phase plugs might be the answer, but I don't want to lose any top end. |
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| vinylkid58 |
| quote: | Originally posted by dhumke
I have a pair of FE127's I built using plans from the Timinator, and they sound great, but could maybe be a little less crashy. I was thinking phase plugs might be the answer, but I don't want to lose any top end. |
Do the mods shown on Dave's site (Planet 10) for the FE127; don't worry you won't lose any top end. Cone treatment and basket damping are very easy and worthwhile for this driver.
Jeff |
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| kazoo |
| quote: | Originally posted by dhumke
That is a brave mod, kazoo. Can you describe how the sound has changed? I have a pair of FE127's I built using plans from the Timinator, and they sound great, but could maybe be a little less crashy. I was thinking phase plugs might be the answer, but I don't want to lose any top end. |
Hi dhumke,
The phase plug seemed to smooth out the high frequencies. I did not notice loosing any top end. They just seem easier to listen to after the phase plug. Also I want to do the mods Dave has on his site and see how much more the drivers will improve.
John |
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| dhumke |
Thanks, guys. I have been recently exposed to the "full Range Phenomenon" and am totally amazed. I have an Onkyo ss HT receiver, and with some CD's I still occasionally get up to make sure it's in stereo mode, because I'm hearing music on the sides and behind me. It sounds better than most stuff mixed for 5.1 surround, because it’s so natural. I went to a high end stereo shop with a few of my really good CD's, and listened to some ridiculously expensive systems. One system they had set up cost $150,000, (!!??) and the imaging and soundstage was nothing like the $37 Fostex’s. I kind of feel like I must be delusional, or something.
Has anyone else been down this road, and can you recommend other CD’s that have that quality? I have found Pink Floyd DSOTM, Llewellyn - Mysts of Avalon to be two of the best.
Dave |
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| Svein_B |
The curiosity got the better of me today, and I put knife to dustcap on a pair of FE-126e in my Frugel-horns.
I cut around the dustcap about 2mm up (that's somewhere between 1/16" and 1/8") and trimmed to the edge of the voicecoil former.
There was some black glue most of the way around the inside of the voicecoil former. I cut this away with a sharp pointed surgical knife. Sealed the fibres around the edge with ModPodge to finish the job.
Until I get in touch with a guy in Canada to send me a couple of cedar tree phase plugs, I made my own temporary ones from 3/4" steel pipe and plastic caps :D
SveinB |
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| Colescuttle |
This was before smoothing the cut edge. A week or so curing the cone treatment and this driver is ready to go.
Colescuttle |
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| planet10 |
At the rate you guys are going, Scott is going to have to make some more of these for me.
The original FE127 proto plugs turned out to be perfect for the FE108eS, so we made some up for 108s, now that you guys have figured out how to successfully operate on 126s & 127s they can be put to there original purpose.
Yellow Cedar (light), yellow cedar (dark) & 1 set walnut. George gets 1st pick -- althou with the black drivers he might want a black set.
dave
PS: any more discussion specifically of my plugs should move over to my AVB thread. |
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| Colescuttle |
The black would work best with the black cone treatment. Could you send me...umm...what color was that now?
George |
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| planet10 |
Black?
I'll get Chris to make one of the above black then.
dave |
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| Svein_B |
I installed the long (108eS) version of Planet-10's phase plug on my FE126E drivers.
I think however that the shorter FE103 plug would be better suited for the FE126e. The long version protrudes about 1/8" in front of the speaker surrounds.
It could be that the FE126E and FE127E are slightly different since the 127 is shielded.
SB. |
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| planet10 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Svein_B
I installed the long (108eS) version of Planet-10's phase plug on my FE126E drivers.
I think however that the shorter FE103 plug would be better suited for the FE126e. The long version protrudes about 1/8" in front of the speaker surrounds.
It could be that the FE126E and FE127E are slightly different since the 127 is shielded.
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It is possible... with these little drivers our goal was to have have plug extend just past the front. I can send you a set of shorter plugs if you'g like to try them out.
How do they sound?
dave |
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| Svein_B |
Hi Dave! I am not complaining, the plugs seem to work nicely :)
I just want to suggest that I think the shorter plug would look more nicely proportioned.
Photo of FE126e with long plug: |
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| planet10 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Svein_B
I just want to suggest that I think the shorter plug would look more nicely proportioned. |
Looks like we could start the taper to the point earlier...
dave |
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| SCD |
Good one Don!
That is one serious phase plug. |
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