| hacknet |
| does ferric chloride smell like bleach? or like swimming pool water? i got a bottle cheap and im not sure if i got the rite stuff... is it similar to bleach? on the reciept it states bleach... pls help.. |
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| UrSv |
| If it is Ferric Chloride I haven't used in 20 years but at that time it was brown and did not smell like bleach. It causes bad stains on most anything. |
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| hacknet |
| oh... so it doesnt smell at all like bleach? |
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| halojoy |
no it doesn't smell much, but aluminium kettles
get attacked as well as coppersurfaces, PCBs
I put it in a kettle, warm to 50 Celsius, and etch
there are alternatives to FerroCloride |
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| hacknet |
| is bleach any use in etching pcbs? |
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| hacknet |
| the *** sold me bleach!! she said i asked for fabric clorox... jack ***.... wasted my money... i got 7 liters of the stuff sitting in my room now |
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| UrSv |
| quote: | Originally posted by hacknet
the *** sold me bleach!! she said i asked for fabric clorox... jack ***.... wasted my money... i got 7 liters of the stuff sitting in my room now |
Not really her fault is it so no need to call her anything? If she said you wanted Fabric Chlorix you should probably explained a bit further that that was not what you wanted. Normally you don't just buy it just anywhere but you have to do that in special electronics shop or similar.
"You get what you ask for so keep asking until you get what you want" |
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| peranders |
| quote: | Originally posted by hacknet
does ferric chloride smell like bleach? or like swimming pool water? i got a bottle cheap and im not sure if i got the rite stuff... is it similar to bleach? on the reciept it states bleach... pls help.. |
Check here!
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/show...&highlight=h2o2
Bleach together with acid kicks a**. Read more about it in the thread and also the precautions!.
Ferric chloride is strongly yellow and if it's in a bottle dark brown. |
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| sikkek |
Peranders,
I don't think he has H2O2 bleach, but some chloric bleach. I don't know how that will react when mixed with HCl..... |
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| jackinnj |
| thinking Oxidation-Reduction gives me a headache. |
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| SY |
| Ferric chloride is the best etchant. If you have trouble locating it, try using something like sodium perchlorate or ammonium perchlorate. What you want is a strongly oxidizing Lewis acid. |
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| peranders |
| quote: | Originally posted by sikkek
Peranders,
I don't think he has H2O2 bleach, but some chloric bleach. I don't know how that will react when mixed with HCl..... |
hacknet, don't use any fluids if you aren't sure what it is!
Known working fluids:
Ferric chloride, whatch out for stains on clothes!!!
Ammonium persulfat (in Swedish). White powder, gets blue when used. Equally good as FeCl3 but it's easier to solve in warm water, no gases either. I have used it a lot. Watch out for stains on cotton, bleaches!! Can also make holes!!
Peroxide + HCl + 3 parts of water = dangeruos but really effective. Watch out for stains, holes in your clothes!!! |
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| AuroraB |
Ferric chloride exists in two versions,-- FeCl3 and FeCl2. Only FeCl3 is usable as an etchant...
The trick about FeCl3 as an etchant is that is is reusable until the "soup" is saturated with copperchloride....then the etching time increases dramatically and finally halts.. it also needs to be heated to 45-50 deg. to be usable without very long process time...
Other usable etchants are Sodium sulphate and ammonium sulphate, both can be reusable but needs the same heating as FeCl3. Should be available at electronic suppliers. Both gives a transparent solution, whereas Ferric chloride is a mess and stains everything..
All the above etchants needs air, either by being sprayed or foamed. Submersion only don't work....
An alternative etchant is 50% strength hydrochloric acid, 50% hydrogen peroxide, and water, mixed in 1 : 1 : 2.
This is a one time solution that must be mixed immediately prior to use, and then disposed of. Cannot be stored ready made. Mix accurately, or you have no process or ultra fast , which gives too much underetching of the edges.
The process develops chlorine gas, so use well ventilated only...
Good luck |
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| hacknet |
| i got Cl bleach... i guess i can use it to bleach my school shoes.... bleach iz kinda acidic rite... cant i get it to work? |
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| SY |
Small pedagogical point from a former chemistry teacher- FeCl2 is NOT ferric chloride.
The persulfates will work fine. IIRC, sodium persulfate is the fastest of the persulfate etchents. |
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| hacknet |
| can i boil off the bleach to make it more concentrated? i got 7 liters... help me get rid of it guys!! |
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| hacknet |
| i juz found a supplier dat sells fecl2... iz cheap but i need a licence from the ministry of environment before i can purchase the chemical!!! pcb etching is out of the window!! |
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| AuroraB |
I stand to be corrected....:D ,
but FeCl2 does exist, but is still not usable as an etchant...
For the Sodium an ammonium stuff, -they are both -persulphates...of course...
The HCl, H2O2 and water mixture is actually quite fast. I have often used it in "hurry" situations and for non critical work, when my etching machines where out of duty, for some reason or the other.... |
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| peranders |
| quote: | Originally posted by SY
Small pedagogical point from a former chemistry teacher- FeCl2 is NOT ferric chloride.
The persulfates will work fine. IIRC, sodium persulfate is the fastest of the persulfate etchents. |
Don't we mean FeCl3? |
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| peranders |
| quote: | Originally posted by hacknet
can i boil off the bleach to make it more concentrated? i got 7 liters... help me get rid of it guys!! |
Forget it if you don't know what it is! If it is H2O2, no, you can't boil it! |
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| MRehorst |
Either use it in the laundry or call your local trash collection people to find out about hazardous waste pickup. DON'T BOIL IT!
Don't pour it down the drain. Maybe you know someone with a swimming pool who can use it to keep the pool sterile...
MR |
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| UrSv |
| One could also bring it back to the shop... |
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| hacknet |
| it is household bleach... cant i do anything to make it more potent..? i tried returning it.. he gave me a black face and told me to f off. |
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| MRehorst |
More potent for what? Trust me, the stuff is nasty enough as it is, and you don't want to go mucking about heating it or mixing it with other stuff. Just write it off and dispose of it properly. If it's laundry bleach, give it away to your neighbors. Your neighborhood will have the brightest whites anywhere.
MR |
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| SY |
| quote: | Originally posted by hacknet
cant i do anything to make it more potent..? |
Try Viagra.
BTW, some classic troll stuff here. My hat's off to you. |
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| sam9 |
I believe this tread has established that Ferric Chlorite:
A- does not smell like bleach
B- is brown
C- leaves nasty stains
D- etches copper
Let me add a couple of nice properties -
E- plants seem to love it. When it nears exhaustion I pour it in the pots with the philodendrons. I don't the biochemistry wqell but they guy at the gargen store says it gets broken down and converted to chlorphile.
F- is is used in municipal and industrial wastewater treatment --disinfectant and for "flocculating" whaterver that is.
G- Preparation of drinking water - apearently binds with nasty metals and causes them to settle out.
You can also look at an MSDS: www.mgchemicals.com/msds/415.html
Actually, if you are going to use chemicals in your hobby, I suggest downloading an MSDS for each of them. |
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| Christer |
| quote: | Originally posted by sam9
I believe this tread has established that Ferric Chlorite:
F- is is used in municipal and industrial wastewater treatment --disinfectant and for "flocculating" whaterver that is.
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Flocculation is when particles in a liquid groups together in
larger and larger aggregates, so that they can be easily
filtered away. Since many types of particles flocculate very
slowly or not at all, one usually adds a flocculating agent (I
don't know if this is the proper english term) which helps
the particles flocculate. These agents are chemically called
ion bridges, so I assume they have the property that they
form a "bridge" between ions so they can bind to each other
via this agent. There are different version of flocculating
agents depending on which types of ions they are to bridge
(pos-pos, neg-neg, pos-neg). I understand that these
substances are usually based on polyacrylic amides. I had
no idea ferrochloride could be used, though. |
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| SY |
There are all sorts of flocculants other than ion bridges. Bentonite, isenglass, egg whites, silanes... basically, anything that will get colloidal particles to clump up.
"Flocculating agent" is an OK term , though usually it's called a "flocculant." There's a dirty joke in there somewhere, if you care to dig it out. |
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