| whats gan on |
i bought this cd player last week and i am very impressed with it
i was expceting a pile of dung. but when i took the lid off i noticed it was well designed, much better than the cd 4 i used to own
does any body have any experience with this player i would love to do some diy with it i have pics i can send |
|
|
| Sonusthree |
Oh yes indeed my friend ;)
It is surely an excellent player (except for the display).
I have done all the usual mods;
Black gates, shielded, mains lead, cabinet damping, Sorbothane feet, Audiocom regulators for the clock and digital sections, Quality Gold/Teflon RCA sockets, 75 Ohm resistor termination on digital out, Switch to disable display lights etc.
Still more to do though. :bawling:
Did you know that this player was designed by John Westlake from Pink Triangle who posts on this forum when he can find the time? It's one of his favourite designs for Cambridge audio alongside the Isomagic Dac.
Well I have to say that it sounds pretty fanflippintastic in stock form but us DIY'ers are never satisfied.
I'm sure that you noticed that the board uses surface mount components making it (for me) a nightmare to consider changing opamps etc. I will one day but, right now, it scares me to risk my player. Also the ribbon cable that connects the laser is very delicate and I've knackered a few in the pursuit of audio nirvana. If anyone knows how to release the ribbon without stressing it then please contact me.
I am considering adding this tube buffer at the moment
http://www.audiodigit.com/index.php?section=81
There is plenty of space inside the case. I'm thinking that it may be easier for me to use this as an output instead of trying different opamps. Perhaps I could just bypass the output devices and avoid soldering surface mount stuff alltogether?
I'm also going to try a simple mod to dim the display lights in an effort to make it readable from more than 6 feet away. :smash:
Another important thing is the remote control. The stock remote that I got with the unit has only basic functions (Yours may be different). I have recently purchased a Cambridge Audio SRC-01 which means that I can now access programming, search and display functionality that was previously unavailable to me. It will work with any philips based CD remote.
Congratulations on a great choice and welcome to the forum. :wave: |
|
|
| whats gan on |
hi thanks for the info and welcome, do you have any pics of yours modified i would love to copy it, i am used to cd players that cost £2500 now i can not afford that sort of money any more. i would love to see if i could get this player close to a really hi end player. have you compered it to any exspencive players with the mods i have have noticed 2 x + 5 volts 7805 at the bottom of the cd player i think they power the dacs do you know which one power's the clock is it a 7805 in between to plus and minus regs at the back as thee is 5 all together i would be very greatful for your help if it is not to much trouble
:) |
|
|
| whats gan on |
hi the lead from the laser if held firm and lift up vertical no side ward movements at all, the lead will be fine i have had it off a few times. the link you sent me was very interesting
i know what you mean as this lead and the laser has to come off to get at the board i am really looking forward to your reply :) |
|
|
| sreten |
| quote: | Originally posted by whats gan on
......i would love to see if i could get this player close to a really hi end player.....
:) |
Hi,
I've got one. It allready is. If it sounds good in your system leave it
pretty much well alone except possibly for the coupling capacitors.
Which should also be checked at the amplifier end and if your going to
be a purist about it one set of coupling capacitors shouild be removed.
:)/sreten. |
|
|
| whats gan on |
hi thanks for that my mate wants me to take it down and compare it to his modified cd 63 with clocks and other stuff done to it i will let you know what i think when i get back in a few hours
thanks for your input;) |
|
|
| whats gan on |
| quote: | Originally posted by sreten
Hi,
I've got one. It allready is. If it sounds good in your system leave it
pretty much well alone except possibly for the coupling capacitors.
Which should also be checked at the amplifier end and if your going to
be a purist about it one set of coupling capacitors shouild be removed.
:)/sreten. |
one more thing is the transformer any good as it is not a toroidal transformer
bye for now i am off to compare it |
|
|
| Sonusthree |
| quote: | Originally posted by sreten
Hi,
I've got one. It allready is. If it sounds good in your system leave it
pretty much well alone except possibly for the coupling capacitors.
Which should also be checked at the amplifier end and if your going to
be a purist about it one set of coupling capacitors shouild be removed.
:)/sreten. |
Hi Sreten. I'll definitely be looking into this one. A cheap tweak is a good tweak. Have you done any of these things to yours?
| quote: | Originally posted by whats gan on
one more thing is the transformer any good as it is not a toroidal transformer
bye for now i am off to compare it |
Torroids have their own disadvantages and I reckon the stock transformer looks quite beefy enough for the job. If anything I may consider completely seperate powersupliies for the digital and analog sections but I have to (reluctantly) agree with Sreten.Mods should be done only after careful consideration. The mods that I have added so far have been 'Like for like' capacitor and regulator mods. To be honest I'm not exactly sure what difference they have made. At the time I was very pleased but I was also very eager to believe that I was helping things. All I can say with any certainty is that I don't think I have made it worse!!
The obvious thing to do to most players is to add a quality clock but I remember reading that the CD4SE has a very good clock circuit and that changing the clock could therefore be detrimental.
I would also like to say that the ONLY reason that I would consider adding the valve output is to remove some harshness from my system. (yes, I know it is a sticking plaster solution) I would at first use as a stand alone buffer to test and then consider substituting the outputs for this. If I didn't have this problem with MY system then I would be more than happy to stop the modding.
My recommendations to you are to first try one or both of these things;
(a) Add some bitumen damping to the case and transport but don't foul the mechanism.
(b) Consider swapping the captive mains lead for a good quality shielded one. :att'n: Safety alert :att'n: Just make sure you know what you are doing.
These are easy and cheap first tweaks and are unlikely to damage the player.
I'd be interested to hear your opinions on the results. |
|
|
| Sonusthree |
Here's an old picture from May this year showing the board with Audiocom super regs on the bottom for the Digital sections.
At the top of the picture just out of view (attached to the brown wires) is another Audiocom regulator feeding the clock circuit. (Can't remember the name but it was the best one they sold at the time.)
You can also see the Black Gate caps. I messed up a bit here I think. From memory I increased from 2200uF to 3300 but they are just a little too wide and just about touch the sides of the transport mech which I'm sure cannot be a good thing. Also they are now standing off the board more than I would like so I will have to sort this out sometime soon.
You can also see the (Pink) Elna cap that I parallelled with the original on the transport side. This seems to fit neatly under the transport mech but I doubt it has any sonic benefits but who knows?
And the Bitumen damping and the extra copper shielding on the base. Once again YMMV. |
|
|
| whats gan on |
hi i am back with the cd 4se and the cambridge is a much better cd player, though the marantz is a very clean sound which sounds thin compared to the cd4se the vocals are fuller warmer instruments sound very real i must say for £15 the cd 4se is a megga bargain. cheaper than a trichord clock 2, i must admit i would like a little of what the marantz offers which is treble but if i was to lose the sound it has now
i do not think i would risk killing its sound i have thought of running the clock from a 12 volt motor bike battery. in the past i had a qed digit just giving the opamp its own power was very big upgrade i reckon super regs on the AD711 opamps should be very good upgrade any one have any thoughts on this :hot: |
|
|
| Sonusthree |
It's very interesting to hear that the CD4SE beat the Marantz in all but treble. I suspect that this could be system dependent?
In my system I have;
CD4SE ----> Cyrus2 & PSX ---->Tannoy 611 Mk1
The speakers and amp are both known for their forward treble so it is therefore difficult for me to comment. On lesser systems I have found the Cambridge a little too warm and lacking detail but with my kit I have too much of the very highest treble. :whazzat: I'm sure I'll get it sorted soon.
I think a better supply for the opamps would be wise but remember that there are 4 regs to replace for the analogue section. This is the reason that I have tackled the clock and digital sections first!
I think a battery supply for the clock would be good but is it really 12 Volts? I can't remember right now or were you suggesting regulation afterwards? Please forgive my ignorance.
| quote: | Originally posted by sreten
Hi,
I've got one. It allready is. If it sounds good in your system leave it
pretty much well alone except possibly for the coupling capacitors.
Which should also be checked at the amplifier end and if your going to
be a purist about it one set of coupling capacitors shouild be removed.
:)/sreten. |
Sreten, Could you advise on removing the coupling caps. Is it just a case of removing the blue Philips cap nearest to where the output leaves the board? I'm going to have a look later this evening and try to work it out for myself but I'd feel alot more comfortable with your advice onboard. I suppose I should then check for DC at the output and also that my amp has coupling caps at the input. |
|
|
| whats gan on |
| the cd 4 was on tested on a Affordable Valve Company class a amp castle harlechs with a very good replacement vifa tweeter used in AE1 MK 3 i would say on first listening the marantz was a more detailed player but the instruments had no body at the end of the day i have heard a musical fidelity cd pre and it was very much like the cd4se the tannoy 611 are sweet sounding i never found them bright or harsh good bass mind |
|
|
| carl.stock |
Hi, whats gan on. :)
I have four CD4SE CD players! :bigeyes: (Yes, I am mad! ;))
I have not modded any of them, although I did add some damping material and new feet to one of them. I know that is not really electrical DIY as such, but it is as far as I can go in my situation.
I know this may sound clichéd and yet more ‘hi-fi speak’, but it is such an unusual sounding player – I’ve never heard anything like it.
Lovely machine. And John is very helpful. :)
To think this machine cost around £150-£200 a decade or so ago is mind boggling. It can be found on eBay for as little as £20 sometimes because many do not realise it is such a find.
Does anyone know of particularly good amps to go with this player? It sounds good with some Cambridge Audio models (A3i, etc.), as well as some Arcam (Alpha 6 Plus), which I did not think would sound good at first. Goes really well with the Arcam units I have, but I think it is best with the Cambridge Audio A3i. :)
Different cables, to me, do not seem to make much difference with this unit, although Canare cable seems to be particularly good with this unit. I really love the Cambridge Audio Pacific interconnects used inside! :)
Regards,
Carl |
|
|
| whats gan on |
wow four players mind you i see why to be honest mate i would save up and buy a very good amp that cost over a grand new or much more. the amp is the heart of any good system, but you will pay a lot less used .or try the amazing sonic t amp in the modified form. it will cost you about £100 the amp is the heart of any good system i used a t amp in the past very good amp but lacked bass. but the one i have just metioned should have bass as it is a revised there is one on ebay its super t amp
the cd player really is a gem and it needs the best you can afford to realy get the best from it |
|
|
| carl.stock |
Thanks very much, whats gan on. :)
Don’t worry – I have only four CD4SE players because they cost me between £20 and £30 (with a couple being a bit more), so I figured they would be good for spares. However, they all work, with just one’s display backlight not working.
I am selling off other hi-fi equipment so I can consolidate my hi-fi and home cinema equipment and get the right equipment put in the right places. :) |
|
|
| sreten |
| quote: | Originally posted by Sonusthree
Sreten, Could you advise on removing the coupling caps. Is it just a case of removing the blue Philips cap nearest to where the output leaves the board? I'm going to have a look later this evening and try to work it out for myself but I'd feel alot more comfortable with your advice onboard. I suppose I should then check for DC at the output and also that my amp has coupling caps at the input. |
Hi,
I'm not an inveterate fiddler so I haven't moddded my CD4SE.
The above sounds entirely reasonable, assuming there are coupling
caps on the output, I had a quick look once but wasn't entirely sure.
My system also has sibilance issues, think this is related to my
Audiolab 8000A, the best approach I think is the speakers c/o.
If you could sketch out the treble unit c/o may have some advice.
:)/sreten. |
|
|
| JohnW |
Hi,
The CD4SE is direct coupled; there are no coupling capacitors on the output.
John,
The best upgrade is to replace the AD711 OPAMP with a discrete design, this will give the greatest improvement, I would do this first before adding new regulators.
JohnW |
|
|
| Sonusthree |
| quote: | Originally posted by sreten
My system also has sibilance issues, think this is related to my
Audiolab 8000A, the best approach I think is the speakers c/o.
If you could sketch out the treble unit c/o may have some advice.
:)/sreten. |
From what I can gather the Audiolab and Early Cyrus amps have quite similar characteristics. Powerful but forward. A bit like me! :D Sorry.
You have already, very kindly, helped me to figure out my crossover in this thread which is definitely a work in progress:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/show.../>
ht=
I have since heard the later MK2 611 and the sound is very different but lacks the magic of the MK1. The crossover and cabinets are identical but the drivers obviously have different specs. To put it bluntly they have really toned down the crossover region to reduce the natural sibilance of the horn but they sound very very dull and lifeless. I will be updating that thread very soon with my findings so far.
Sreten you are a true gentleman, Thank you.
| quote: | Originally posted by JohnW
Hi,
The CD4SE is direct coupled; there are no coupling capacitors on the output.
John,
The best upgrade is to replace the AD711 OPAMP with a discrete design, this will give the greatest improvement, I would do this first before adding new regulators.
JohnW |
Hi John,
Thanks for taking the time to post here. I know just how busy you are. I know that you have designed some great stuff that I am yet to hear but there remains something special about the CD4SE. To me I love that something made for us ordinary people can sound so great. It seems as if in this one design you used all you're expertise to squeeze the best player from such a reasonable budget. In my opinion this is the mark of a really good designer.
:worship: Needless to say I am a big fan.
If I was to replace the AD711 would it just be a case of making or buying a 'daughterboard' and connecting up the inputs to the opamp to the new discrete circuit?
Unfortunately I would have to study hard before I design my own discrete outputs.
Any pointers would be appreciated. I like to learn. |
|
|
| EUVL |
There are few commercially available opamps on the market. One example is :
http://www.forsselltech.com/JFET990-2.htm
But you can Google to find others.
It would most unlikely be plug and play, as the footprint will be totally different. And you should check whether the supply voltages are compatible.
But I am sure John would be able to give you much better advice.
Patrick |
|
|
| Sonusthree |
Hi Patrick,
This is where things get a little scary for me :xeye:
Firstly the native regs for the opamps are +/- 8 Volts. At least +/- 12 Volts is required for all of the commercial offerings I have found so far and this would mean also finding a new Bi-polar supply from somewhere. I lack the confidence, resources and perhaps the skills to mess around with mains voltages.
I think that it would be too much for me to deal with at once. Both technically and financially. If there was a tried and tested foolproof DIY breadboard type approach then I may nervously consider it.
I am also considering is swapping the 711 for a Burr Brown unit which is pin compatible. This would be easy, except I have no experience replacing surface mount stuff.
Finally my thoughts turn once again to the replacing the 711 with the "Tubalizer" I mentioned before. Technically this would seem like an easy substitution for someone of my ability. It only requires a simple +12 Volt supply which I can upgrade later on perhaps to a battery.
But the sound of this tube buffer is an unknown quantity and I would defintely be taking a risk. A £65 risk (96 Euros).
http://www.audiodigit.com/index.php?section=81
My integrated amp has a passive preamp so I would expect that this choice would be very important. |
|
|
| whats gan on |
hi all i am going to run the clock off a 12 volt battrey today i will
connect the live to pin 1 of the 7805 reg. i remember that when i done this to a trichord clock 2 it was a big improvement a lot more clarity was the result i will let you know my findings later today |
|
|
| whats gan on |
| what's gan on i got nothing would not work at all ? i Connected the 12 volt + to pin 1 and earthed it to the case never worked anyone know why :bigeyes: :bawling:hellllllllllllp |
|
|
| Sonusthree |
| quote: | Originally posted by whats gan on
what's gan on i got nothing would not work at all ? i Connected the 12 volt + to pin 1 and earthed it to the case never worked anyone know why :bigeyes: :bawling:hellllllllllllp |
From your description it's not exactly clear what you did and I don't want to patronise you by asking things like 'did you remove the reg from the circuit board to do this?'
A picture of your setup would be great but otherwise a step by step account of what you did would be great.
I'm sure it can be sorted out.
Cheers. |
|
|
| whats gan on |
| HI the 5 v voltage reg was in place with the first pin taken away from the curcuit board then i connected 12 volts dc ,which was fed by battery. normally the reg would take it down to 5 volts so it would work the clock i have done this in the past with power supplies but not a battery. though i have ran a clock 2 from a battery it must be a earth issue or any thing else i have not a clue thanks for you reply sorry i did try to atacha a pic the file is to big sorry the reg is u 14 on the board |
|
|
| markk02474 |
| quote: | Originally posted by whats gan on
the marantz is a very clean sound which sounds thin compared to the cd4se the vocals are fuller warmer instruments sound very real |
Sounds like your mate might have chokes in his CD63 at R613-R616. These are between the +/- 12v regulators and the opamps, showing them a couple Ohms of power supply impedence, thus starving them for power. I used a ferite beaded jumper in mine instead. |
|
|
| anodyne |
Sorry to break into this thread but the forum won't let me post a new one after searching. Please forgive me and read on !
My well-liked Cambridge CD4SE has begun making spitty thunderous noises after working normally for about 40 minutes. Can anyone please tell me if there is a component in it that is known to fail after some years with this effect ? Also I notice there's loads of spare space in the case. Is there anything useful that could be fitted in in ? Many TIA. |
|
|
| Sonusthree |
Hi Anodyne,
I've never heard any sound from a CD player described as spitty and thunderous!! Sounds impressive!
Does it still play discs while making this noise? Is it a sound from the speakers (unlikely) or mechanical noise from the player itself?
More details on the fault would be helpful.
I could only guess at this stage that it may be a dodgy motor.
The most common failures of players of this age are usually lasers and motors. 7 - 9 years ain't bad going for a laser.
New lasers are about 22 quid from Dalbani.
Is the noise a clicking, a rhythmical rubbing, or loud whirring?
I know it's not that easy to describe.
What to do with all that space............................................
| quote: | Originally posted by JohnW
John,
The best upgrade is to replace the AD711 OPAMP with a discrete design, this will give the greatest improvement, I would do this first before adding new regulators.
JohnW |
John Westlake (JohnW) is the designer this player so he should know!! I have toyed with the idea of adding a tube output stage but I think I'll try the discrete transistor output that John is suggesting. This may well require, or at least benefit from, another power supply to give the +/- 12 to 25 volts needed for various designs.
I've just invested some money in breadboarding kit and will soon try out some designs.
Have you seen the Marantz mods thread? It's huge!!! Some people over there have separated their digital, analogue and servo supplies by adding more transformers (Power supplies). This could be done internally if you're up to the job.
Cheers,
Martin. |
|
|
| anodyne |
Hi Martin,
Thanks very much for responding. It's a quite scary sound from the speakers which mostly but not completely masks the music. It doesn't occur when using another source, even after a couple of hours.
From what you say I think I'll replace the laser and see what happens - or doesn't !
Not much point in upgrading until solved, but thanks very much for the pointer. |
|
|
| Sonusthree |
Hi Anode. Try to remain positive :clown:
I think you should wait for a second opinion on this from someone a bit more knowledgeable than me before spending the money on a laser. However, it would probably only harm your wallet to do so and it would eliminate one possibility. I'll leave that up to you.
I've never really experienced this kind of thunderous noise from the speakers myself. A bad laser can sometimes make the sound from the speakers seem extremely choppy and fragmented. Is that what you mean?
There are people here who may recognise the problem if you try a little harder to describe it. You reap what you sow around here. My concern is that it may be a problem on the circuit board itself.
Does it happen straight away when you switch on from cold?
Does it work if you leave it switched on for some time before playing?
Does it happen every time and all CD's?
Can you quickly scan to the last few tracks of the disc and does this help?
Have you tried it on a full moon?
The experts around here (not me) are like detectives. They need clues.
You may even hear from JohnW himself.
Cheers,
Martin.:) |
|
|
| anodyne |
Hi Martin,
Can't really add much to original post: the CDP "...has begun making spitty thunderous noises after working normally for about 40 minutes".
It never does it from cold, doesn't do it every time I play a CD (even the same one), the noise is definitely a superfluous noise rather than something chopping up the signal, and I haven't tried it at full moon but it has snowed recently.
Will try skipping tracks but I'm sure it's not a faulty or dirty CD. |
|
|
| Sonusthree |
Hi Anodyne,| quote: | Originally posted by anodyne
Will try skipping tracks but I'm sure it's not a faulty or dirty CD. |
I mentioned scanning forward quickly through the tracks because the laser sled moves along a rail that is lubricated. Sometimes with age (and dirt) this grease hardens in some areas ( this relates to different areas of the disc) and prevents the laser from tracking the CD properly. Skipping quickly toward the ed of a disk can sometimes get past the icky sticky bit and therefore reveal the cause of your problem.
It would seem that your problem is related to the unit heating up and I hope that someone more knowledgeable than me will chime in with some good advice for you.
I could guess some more but .... well...... they would be just guesses. Spindle motor, sled motor, dry joints.......
Someone else around here must have an opinion?
If you really want to have a go at it yourself then this is what I would do. I'm not sure if others would do the same!!
Change the laser and while you're at it apply (while disconnected) a low voltage to each motor and check for any knocking or unusual sound while it is running. Clean the rails that the laser runs along with some cotton buds and alcohol and then re-grease (Not 2-in-1 oil though!).
Beware with this player that it is quite easy to ruin your new laser by stressing the very delicate ribbon cable that attaches it to the Circuit board. It tends to rip at the edges rendering it useless. You could replace the laser and damage it on the way in. It happened to me and I cried. :bawling: Maybe it's just me.
If this is not the answer then it would have to be an electronic fault that would require some skill to sort out (unless it is simply a dodgy regulator). You have probably seen that most of the components are of the teeny tiny surface mount variety.
Have you heard of freeze spray? You wait for your player to warm up then zap individual components with it and if the problem goes away then you've hit the bullseye!!
:att'n: I'm sure everybody knows but I have to add a warning about mains voltages and how they can kill you if you don't know what to do........:att'n:
Anybody else have any ideas? Or even agree?
Cheers,
Martin. :) |
|
|
| anodyne |
Martin,
Thanks for a really helpful reply. I'll check out the mechanisms as well as I can (I've met mains volts before) and try the freeze spray (of which I hadn't heard.
Thanks again, |
|
|
| whats gan on |
| quote: | Originally posted by Sonusthree
Here's an old picture from May this year showing the board with Audiocom super regs on the bottom for the Digital sections.
At the top of the picture just out of view (attached to the brown wires) is another Audiocom regulator feeding the clock circuit. (Can't remember the name but it was the best one they sold at the time.)
You can also see the Black Gate caps. I messed up a bit here I think. From memory I increased from 2200uF to 3300 but they are just a little too wide and just about touch the sides of the transport mech which I'm sure cannot be a good thing. Also they are now standing off the board more than I would like so I will have to sort this out sometime soon.
You can also see the (Pink) Elna cap that I parallelled with the original on the transport side. This seems to fit neatly under the transport mech but I doubt it has any sonic benefits but who knows?
And the Bitumen damping and the extra copper shielding on the base. Once again YMMV. |
has any one ran the cd 4se off battries i have with great results martin this would suit you as you have super regs i am now running the digital and a nalog from a pc powersupply sounds great but i am not sure if the cd4 sounds better with the battery power i neeed to do a to b com |
|
|
| Sonusthree |
| quote: | Originally posted by whats gan on
has any one ran the cd 4se off battries i have with great results martin this would suit you as you have super regs i am now running the digital and a nalog from a pc powersupply sounds great but i am not sure if the cd4 sounds better with the battery power i neeed to do a to b com |
Hello mate, long time no see!
I'm in a bit of a pickle at the moment with mine. This thread will explain my strange problem:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/show...&threadid=98598
The designer John W himself to recommends changing the AD711 for a discrete output. I've been building some low voltage valve stuff for this purpose but am getting a bit lost with such small components. The problem I have is knowing where to grab the signal from on the board and I cant work out if the AD711 is integrating the signal from the differential DAC. There's an NE5532 or NE5534 in the player too and I have no idea what that does. I assumed that the signal would leave the DAC, go to an integrator and then to a buffer.
Yes, I've been planning to try separate supplies in mine for sometime. Have you wired it so that only the motors and control circuits are powered by the original transformer? That looks quite easy I suppose or have you given a separate supply +/-8V to the analog section?
Many people believe that separate supply to the clock (middle 5v reg) gives good results in other players. My first move would be to try that with a separate supply for the opamps.
Cheers,
Martin. |
|
|
| whats gan on |
| hi martin honest mate getting a good -power supply to the the 711 oamps ,reeps good results. also the positive regs are all powered together the clock the dac i think. if you look at the underside of your board you will see were the power is going the regulators you must cut the traces from the diodes then connect to wires to the caps |
|
|
| sreten |
Hi,
Are the AD711's 8 pin DILs or surface mount ?
:)/sreten. |
|
|
| whats gan on |
| hi they are surface mount |
|
|
| sreten |
Hi,
well checking up on the AD711 :
A discrete equivalent is not going to be easy (worse is easy) - at all.
The only dubious parameter (typical of -ve rail Vas stage, 3 stage amplifiers)
is negative rail ripple rejection, which is very much worse than the +ve rail.
So I'd concentrate on the negative rail, some CRC filtering ?
:)/sreten. |
|
|
| Sonusthree |
| quote: | Originally posted by sreten
Hi,
well checking up on the AD711 :
A discrete equivalent is not going to be easy (worse is easy) - at all.
The only dubious parameter (typical of -ve rail Vas stage, 3 stage amplifiers)
is negative rail ripple rejection, which is very much worse than the +ve rail.
So I'd concentrate on the negative rail, some CRC filtering ?
:)/sreten. |
Hi Sreten,
JohnW must have recommended it for a good reason. I wonder If he has a specific design in mind? I naively assumed that any good discrete circuit would do.
I've been investigating the possibility of taking the output directly from the dac but I don't want to kill it in the process. I don't know enough to mess with it and I already have one strange intermittent problem to deal with where the music slows down as if time stretched and distorts. It sounds like playing music through windows media player at the slowest possible speed and then ,usually, it recovers and plays OK again.
So, I guess until we can find a very good discrete alternative then the best thing would be to give the opamps their own well thought out supplies or maybe, just maybe add a little 'daughter board' with an opamp socket and play 'til the cows come home.
I think the supply is the safest bet since, as you know, it sounds pretty darn fine as it is.
I'm tying my little brain in knots trying to trace this SMD circuit.
Cheers,
Martin. :D |
|
|
| whats gan on |
i am running the + side of things from a 12 volt motor bike battery
and it is a big improvement,it runs all 4 positive regulators and the bass is deeper and the whole sound is much much better more insight into the recordings. i would try this first as a op,amp with good powerful clean dc does sound really nice
try this it is a cheap upgrade it is well worth it ;) |
|
|
| Sonusthree |
Vey interesting....
I don't have any 12V batteries though.
I was going to put another transformer inside the case with some simple regulation at first. I'm sure that your method would help but you still have everything (digital and analog) except the motors and servos running from the same supply.
There are 2 5 V regulators at the bottom of the board. I wonder if they get fed directly from the DC rails or from the +/-8V regs? I'll have to investigate that.
I like the idea of the dacmagic with lots of seperate supplies but will I be able to do it without damage?.
(P.S. (Off topic) If you are still using the Cyrus amp you should change the large caps. I can confirm from my recent experience that they are probobly cream crackered.) |
|
|
| whats gan on |
martin look at the board from under neath , all the + regs are fed 5 in total from one cap then there is the -VOLTS WHICH THERE ARE TWO REGS wihch comes from one cap i have a pic look there its your old pic . i am happy to run the transport from its internal power
the other cap is negative i am sure the op amps ne5534 two dac chips clock and the positve supply to the op amps |
|
|
| whats gan on |
hi martin i got shot of the cyrus it was to bright for me lacks bass, i got a nad 3020 mod and it sound's more musical. the two regs from the bottom are fed from one cap also the top 3 regs i have been using a pc power supply for all these it sounds good but i am not sure if the battrey power is better it should be mind you it last a few days with out charge by a car bat
the only way i can describe the sound after mods is comparing it to something that sounds £3000 deep bass wide transprent 3D soundstage strings sound sharper and more focused you pick out music without any shut in effect the trouble is now i feel i need hi end amp and maybe speakers to show what it can really do |
|
|
| Sonusthree |
Cheers, I'm definitely going to experiment!!
Can anyone tell me what the NE5534 is doing? is it a buffer for the dac's output or an integrator or both? Or, is it connected to the DAC's input? I'll try and work it out for myself but I'm very inexperienced.
What's Gan On: I can't believe that you swapped the Cyrus for a 3020. I have a 3225 and it sounds so thin and weedy with my Tannoy 611. It's a shame that you never heard the cyrus with new smoothing caps. It's a high current amplifier that is starved by those two old capacitors. Perhaps my NAD also needs new caps and this is an unfair comparison. I heartily recommend anyone with a Cyrus one or two to change those smoothing caps now!!
Cheers,
Martin. |
|
|
| whats gan on |
hi the 3020 sounds warmer and laid back i like it better i hate the forward sound of the cyrus 2. is the nad you have anything like the 3020 as i have tons of bass and lots of power
the ne5534 are either buffing or acting as regulation
martin what i would do mate is buy a motor bike battery for £8
hook it upto the positve side of things and wow what a cd player
all you do is cut the trace from the diodes to the cap then hook up the wires to the cap
then you will see that the cheaper opamps sound more like valves with a good clean detailed sound only when they have very clean dc |
|
|
| whats gan on |
hi all i woud forget about the atx power supply the 12 volt battery blows it a away. and the improvmnet over standard is is massive
if anyone owns a cd4se do it as it addss £££££££££ to the sound no little improvements here :) |
|
|
| whats gan on |
| hiend cd player on a budget :smash: :bigeyes: :bawling: :rolleyes: :mad: :o :( :) :cool: :clown: ;) :xeye: |
|
|
|
