| cowanrg |
i am in need of a good DAC. mine is alright, but now that all my sources come from a single source with a good digital out, i would like to improve my sound.
i have a lot of other projects going on and dont need to be a pioneer and reinvent the wheel. basically, im looking for a kit that i can just assemble and go. i know its not very DIY, but ive got all the DIY i can handle right now, i just dont feel like spending $1k+ on a good DAC.
i have been looking on ebay, and "diy gene" has a nice looking kit, but i know you guys dont like him because of stolen designs and such. any other suggestions out there?
here is what i would be dealing with:
i use a media center PC for all my sources (best thing since sliced bread!). it outputs 24-bit through an RCA digital out. its pretty clean, ive compared it to some very nice transports and it does a fantastic job (beating out most of them). i am currently using the DAC in my processor (rotel sp-1098). its not slouch, its one of the reasons why i bought this processor. the manual says: "24-bit/128x oversampling d-a converters from AKM and crystal semiconductors 24-bit/192khz"
it does HDCD, and i assume i will lose that going with a custom built DAC. thats fine with me. i only have a few HDCD's anyways. any help would be great, and if anyone knows of any really decent commercial units for cheap, that would be great too! i dont have a ton of cash to spend on this, i just want to get a better DAC than what i have. |
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| theAnonymous1 |
Have you looked at the DAC's from this site?
http://www.diykits.com.hk/dac.html
And also the "Extreme TDA1543" kit from this site.
http://us.hifidiy.net/
I was actually going to buy three of these, but my funds were low so I just bought three Entech 203.2 DAC's instead. I managed to get the Entech's for only a little more than one of those kits.
The above site even sells a chassis for that kit at a very reasonable price and it looks pretty nice. |
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| lineup |
| quote: | Originally posted by cowanrg
i am in need of a good DAC. mine is alright, but now that all my sources come from a single source with a good digital out, i would like to improve my sound. |
Hello, cowanrg
I dont know if this DAC designed some years ago match all your requirements.
But this sensible and good DAC
by Sheldon Stokes ( think he is member here at www.diyaudio.com )
is in my opinion a Good simple DAC kit
He also has got his Tube Dac:| quote: | The output of the I/V stage
feeds the grids of a pair of tubes (6DJ8's or 12AT7's)
in an SRPP (shunt regulated push pull) configuration.
The total analog signal path consists of
a resistor, a tube gain stage, and a capacitor. |
Sheldon's Projects are well documented and popular.
Guess you will find some topics in this forum about them.
http://www.quadesl.com/dac.html
Regards
lineup
http://lineup.awardspace.com/ |
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| cowanrg |
| quote: | Originally posted by theAnonymous1
Have you looked at the DAC's from this site?
http://www.diykits.com.hk/dac.html
And also the "Extreme TDA1543" kit from this site.
http://us.hifidiy.net/
I was actually going to buy three of these, but my funds were low so I just bought three Entech 203.2 DAC's instead. I managed to get the Entech's for only a little more than one of those kits.
The above site even sells a chassis for that kit at a very reasonable price and it looks pretty nice. |
the extreme TDA1543 kit looks nice. the price is right, under $100 for the kit isnt bad at all. im not sure if they still make it though, it doesnt look like they offer it for sale, i guess ill have to email them. and there isnt much documentation at all...
the kits from diykits.com.hk look alright, but they have NO documentation as to what they are. the prices look great, but who knows that they really are?! maybe someone else has bought from them? here is one of them on ebay:
http://cgi.ebay.com/NICE-24-BIT-196...1QQcmdZViewItem
it looks the same. they seem to be decent, but i dont know much about DAC's, so i cant tell if any of these will sound decent or not. what should i be looking for? |
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| cowanrg |
| quote: | Originally posted by lineup
Hello, cowanrg
I dont know if this DAC designed some years ago match all your requirements.
But this sensible and good DAC
by Sheldon Stokes ( think he is member here at www.diyaudio.com )
is in my opinion a Good simple DAC kit
He also has got his Tube Dac:
Sheldon's Projects are well documented and popular.
Guess you will find some topics in this forum about them.
http://www.quadesl.com/dac.html
Regards
lineup
http://lineup.awardspace.com/ |
hum, i dont know if i want a design thats from "some years ago". also, he doesnt seem to offer a kit, just the bare PCB. i dont mind buying parts, but i would rather just have a box of parts that i put together, or a finished PCB that i add a PSU and case to. |
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| cowanrg |
ok, thanks. that helps a bit. i can watch the ebay auctions and see if anything pops up.
really, im ignorant about DAC's, or at least DIY ones... my favorite real world DAC's are the musical fidelity ones (any of them, but mainly the tri-vista tube dac and the A3.24 one) and the esoteric stuff. if i could come close (or better) than the A3.24, i would be happy. i dont expect to compare or beat the tri-vista or the esoteric (both around $5K+, the esoterics are high as $10k+).
i mean, can i get good sound from a kit, or am i asking too much? and when i say good sound, i mean something that will compete with ~$1500 commercial DAC's? |
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| rfbrw |
| You could build something like the A3.24. There is a schematic in the forum. |
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| cowanrg |
| quote: | Originally posted by rfbrw
You could build something like the A3.24. There is a schematic in the forum. |
hum. but is someone making boards for it? plus, in the newest one, they use chokes and such, it might be a little harder to make than i would want to do. |
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| mourip |
I have built two of Scott Nixons NOS DACs and find them to be excellent and very cheap. He makes SPDIF and USB DACs, tubed and non-tube.
http://www.scott-nixon.com/
Best,
Paul |
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| rfbrw |
| quote: | Originally posted by cowanrg
hum. but is someone making boards for it?
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Not that I am aware of.
| quote: |
plus, in the newest one, they use chokes and such, it might be a little harder to make than i would want to do.
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The choke regulated psu is the easiest part to build. Chokes, though probably expensive, are at least available with relative ease. Far easier than buying parts from NPC. |
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| cowanrg |
hum, the opus looks like it could work. seems like a lot of people like the design. im not a circuits guy, so i can look at it and know anything about it, but it just looks very simple. all the expensive commercial dacs seem to have a LOT of parts, these all look very basic. i know a lot of parts doesnt necessarily mean its better, it just seems odd.
im curious what pricing will be. the extreme dac kit from hifidiy is like $90, which isnt too bad, i would just need a case, transformer, and some little bits to make it work. i have a feeling the twisted pear opus will be quite a bit more. will it sound that much better?
im just confused. there seem to be so many and i have no idea how each will sound, which sounds better, etc. i understand there is a bit of subjective opinion, but it would still be nice to somehow rate them... |
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| Spasticteapot |
Anyone else seen this DAC?
USB tube DAC for under 90$!
http://www.diykits.com.hk/dac.html
They've also got another USB DAC (using a Burr Brown op-amp and a PCM2704).
Furthermore, they've got a decent-looking USB - to - S/PDIF converter. (Then again, I don't know a thing about 'em.)
http://www.diykits.com.hk/pclink.html
I'm not opposed to bodging together a simple DAC (or ripping one out of a dead CD player), and this looks like a nice way to get audio out of a laptop. (Of course, I'd use a seperate 5v power supply. Just in case.) |
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| cowanrg |
it sure does look good for $90! i wonder what shipping is...
im not looking for a usb dac or a usb > spdif converter. it doesnt work as well as they would have you think. im bypassing all internal windows sound processing stuff via the soundcard. you cant do all that with just a usb audio out. maybe im wrong, but i checked into it pretty thoroughly. windows resamples (poorly) to 48khz and then adds its volume control which messes up the sound. using an internal sound card you can bypass all that, but not with usb. |
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| theAnonymous1 |
The twistedpear Opus DAC has balanced outputs. If I'm not mistaken, your looking for ubalanced.
I don't know if they provide a mod for unbalanced, but I think doing so would throw away half of that DAC's intended purpose.
The diykits site has excellent prices, though I'm weary of what he charges for shipping. I'm sure its probably close to half the cost. |
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| yangsmm |
| Thanks for good information.. |
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| mlihl |
I'd like to suggest the Rockna RD-2 DAC. I haven't heard it yet but it comes with some of today's best chips (PCM1796 DAC, AD1896 upsampler...). Board layout seems fantastic, too. You even get a discrete analog output stage...for less than $200
I don't think you'll find a better deal...
http://www.audiokit.ro/dac_rd2.html
Regards,
Mike |
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| cowanrg |
yeah, im looking for single-ended, i cant use balanced. so the twisted pair is probably out. there's probably a way to get it single-ended, but why modify it?
well, thats good, it narrows down the choices. right now its between one of the scott nixon kit, the rockna RD-3 (ive heard good things about it), and the hifikit extreme dac kit.
i emailed them and asked how much shipping will be. it will probably be $300 to ship :rolleyes:
i still cant believe that diyeden dac. $90 for a case with some electronics and some tubes? sheesh, how do these people make money?! im curious how good it is. |
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| mlihl |
I assume the $90 DAC utilizes the PCM2704's built-in DAC functionality which is...ahem..."humble" ;)
Regards,
Mike |
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| cowanrg |
probably.
i doubt its very high quality. i mean, its in a case for $90! and its metal, not paper :)
does anyone see anything wrong with the extreme dac kit? |
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| Spasticteapot |
| quote: | Originally posted by mlihl
I assume the $90 DAC utilizes the PCM2704's built-in DAC functionality which is...ahem..."humble" ;)
Regards,
Mike |
The non-tube DAC uses a Burr-Brown (TI?) PCM1716, which I'm presuming is the DAC. |
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| cowanrg |
even if it does have burr-brown dacs, that doesnt mean it sounds nice. but then again, it could be good. who knows.
ill probably go a safer route and get either of the three i mentioned. price is a consideration here though... |
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| cowanrg |
yeah, that one was mentioned. its on the list of possibilities.
from what im reading, TDA1543's non-oversampled sound pretty darn good. |
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| Spasticteapot |
| quote: | Originally posted by cowanrg
yeah, that one was mentioned. its on the list of possibilities.
from what im reading, TDA1543's non-oversampled sound pretty darn good. |
What kind of input does a TDA1543 require? I'm wondering if I can hack one into a cheapie USB DAC. |
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| Spasticteapot |
125$ for something without USB is waay too much. |
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| cowanrg |
| quote: | Originally posted by Spasticteapot
125$ for something without USB is waay too much. |
for the record, even though its getting used with a PC, i could care less about USB.
but you are right, it looks a bit privey for $125. the others i have been looking at are around $100 or less and seem to have better options. |
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| Daveis |
What opamps is the $125 Monica DAC using?
If they want to elevate it a couple of levels they'd add discrete outputs to it. |
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| Spasticteapot |
Eh. I don't play anything other than Mp3's anyway. |
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| cowanrg |
| quote: | Originally posted by Spasticteapot
Eh. I don't play anything other than Mp3's anyway. |
um, ok...
did you read what i posted in the beginning about what im looking for? |
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| Spasticteapot |
| quote: | Originally posted by cowanrg
um, ok...
did you read what i posted in the beginning about what im looking for? |
Yep.
I'm looking for a DAC, too! |
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| cowanrg |
| quote: | Originally posted by Spasticteapot
Yep.
I'm looking for a DAC, too! |
ah, i see. i think we are looking for entirely different things though. |
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| cowanrg |
so ive narrowed it down. im thinking about these three:
1.) the extreme TDA1543 dac kit. i like it because it uses multiple TDA1543's, has its own supply (just needs an xformer) and seems to be pretty inexpensive.
2.) the audiokitlabs rockna RD-2 or RD-3. a bit more pricey than all the others, but looks good. looks like good parts and good built quality.
3.) the DDDAC 1543 MK2. i really like this one. its relatively cheap, and has a lot going on. looks like inherent support for batteries (i have 10+ SLA 12v's sitting around, no need for power supplie), paralleled TDA1543's, and expansion options.
im probably going to go with the DDDAC if i can figure out what all i need for my setup. has anyone used this dac or had experience with it? |
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| lineup |
a little thinking only
;)
when you read a topic:
good simple dac kit
by a long time member at www.diyAudio.com
dont go fooling yourself :clown:
what it really means, in translation:
latest technology advanced dac at almost no cost at all and a free sample pcb for me
isnt that right, dear cowanrg :D
Regards from another
very long time member
gromanswe - halojoy - lineup |
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| cowanrg |
| quote: | Originally posted by lineup
a little thinking only
;)
when you read a topic:
good simple dac kit
by a long time member at www.diyAudio.com
dont go fooling yourself :clown:
what it really means, in translation:
latest technology advanced dac at almost no cost at all and a free sample pcb for me
isnt that right, dear cowanrg :D
Regards from another
very long time member
gromanswe - halojoy - lineup |
nope, not at all. not only am i willing to pay for something, but im dont care if its cutting edge technology or not.
i just want something that sounds great and is reasonable. obviously, from this thread, there are plenty of kits out there that suit my needs, i just need to decide which will be the best value.
if you've seen any of my projects, you know im not all about keeping it cheap and simple
:whazzat: |
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| Spasticteapot |
| quote: | Originally posted by cowanrg
if you've seen any of my projects, you know im not all about keeping it cheap and simple
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I am!
(It's the only way to have both a girlfriend and a stereo.) |
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| Viktor_MKD |
| If you're looking for a good sound DAC you can look at The Burr Brown PCM Series. Theese are commonly used in many Consumer Electronics. Some are cheap but some are not. If you prefer better quality you must spend an extra buck. Also consider Cirriuss Logic CS series of DAC's.;) |
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| john65b |
The DIYGenie DAC on ebay
http://cgi.ebay.com/24-96-CD-DAC-DI...1QQcmdZViewItem
has eight parallel TDA-1543 at 24 Bit...isn't the TDA1543 ony 16 Bit? Doesn't doubling the # of paralleled chips gets 1 full bit added (so really a 19 Bit with eight)?
Anyway, I have built the Mini DAC at HiFiDIY (same guy thats selling the Extreme DAC on ebay) and for $40 am quite happy..., I am planning on adding three more TDA1543 chips (xtra chips are $2, and a relatively simple mod - stacking the chips and changing three resistors) to improve sound even more...a cheap, fun tweak...
I vote for the Extreme DAC...or the mini DAC and modding it... |
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| Spasticteapot |
| quote: | Originally posted by john65b
The DIYGenie DAC on ebay
http://cgi.ebay.com/24-96-CD-DAC-DI...1QQcmdZViewItem
has eight parallel TDA-1543 at 24 Bit...isn't the TDA1543 ony 16 Bit? Doesn't doubling the # of paralleled chips gets 1 full bit added (so really a 19 Bit with eight)?
Anyway, I have built the Mini DAC at HiFiDIY (same guy thats selling the Extreme DAC on ebay) and for $40 am quite happy..., I am planning on adding three more TDA1543 chips (xtra chips are $2, and a relatively simple mod - stacking the chips and changing three resistors) to improve sound even more...a cheap, fun tweak...
I vote for the Extreme DAC...or the mini DAC and modding it... |
Thanks!
I'm thinking of a dual-1543 Mini-DAC. I doubt I'll even notice the difference, but what the hey!
Does the mini-DAC have a DC-bias prevention capacitor on the output? This is going to be used with my Gainclone, and why use two caps when one will do? |
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| cowanrg |
| quote: | Originally posted by Spasticteapot
Thanks!
I'm thinking of a dual-1543 Mini-DAC. I doubt I'll even notice the difference, but what the hey!
Does the mini-DAC have a DC-bias prevention capacitor on the output? This is going to be used with my Gainclone, and why use two caps when one will do? |
do you want to thread-jack just a little bit more? |
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| Spasticteapot |
| quote: | Originally posted by cowanrg
do you want to thread-jack just a little bit more? |
This thread is about "Good, Simple DAC kits" is it not?
Well, you're not the only one looking for a DAC that is both simple and good! |
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| cowanrg |
| quote: | Originally posted by Spasticteapot
This thread is about "Good, Simple DAC kits" is it not?
Well, you're not the only one looking for a DAC that is both simple and good! |
true enough i guess. i just hate reading threads where EVERY dac kit is discussed. makes searching for things difficult. |
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| john65b |
"i just hate reading threads where EVERY dac kit is discussed. makes searching for things difficult."
Was that not what you asked? |
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| Spasticteapot |
| quote: | Originally posted by john65b
"i just hate reading threads where EVERY dac kit is discussed. makes searching for things difficult."
Was that not what you asked? |
"DAC kits under 100$" is hardly every DAC! |
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| theAnonymous1 |
Spasticteapot,
Before you commit to buying the mini DAC you should ask john65b about its output level. It doesn't have an op-amp to boost the output so you will either need a pre-amp or an amp with relitively high gain. |
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| john65b |
True...standard CD output is about 2V, and the miniDAC is about .7V...
Thanks Anonymous1...
I am hoping the addition of a few more TDA1543 and changing the IV/Vref Resistors will help out on the gain a bit...check out the attached TDA1543 calc that shows what the resistors and #TDA1543 paralleled chip combos you can do...I do not think you want to overdo the output, as you will change the sound quality quite a bit (from what I have read)
Hey Anonymous1...how did your Entech Number Cruncher DAC work out? It would be yet another DAC option here...no soldering, as it is complete unit with power supply for under $50 on eBay...
I don't know if you have another DAC to compare it to, but I would be interested in hearing what you think of it... |
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| cowanrg |
| quote: | Originally posted by john65b
"i just hate reading threads where EVERY dac kit is discussed. makes searching for things difficult."
Was that not what you asked? |
yeah, you are right. i guess the thread was just getting off-topic (or at least what i wanted the topic to be).
i guess most of these kits or suggestions just wont be much better than what i have. the ones ive narrowed it down to should be pretty good, but im looking to beat a relatively decent dac, not just some crummy one inside a $100 dvd player or something. |
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| lucpes |
| quote: | Originally posted by cowanrg
yeah, you are right. i guess the thread was just getting off-topic (or at least what i wanted the topic to be).
i guess most of these kits or suggestions just wont be much better than what i have. the ones ive narrowed it down to should be pretty good, but im looking to beat a relatively decent dac, not just some crummy one inside a $100 dvd player or something. |
IMO TDA 1543 NOS (without reclocking) sounds really good but masks out some of the finer content in music. Really nice with say jazz/vocals but kind of goofs out on more complex music passages. |
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| cowanrg |
| quote: | Originally posted by lucpes
IMO TDA 1543 NOS (without reclocking) sounds really good but masks out some of the finer content in music. Really nice with say jazz/vocals but kind of goofs out on more complex music passages. |
thats very good information!
i really like the finer details in music, and thats why my system excels at right now. i would hate to lose that.
is this problem fixed by using multiple 1543's? the dddac with a slave board could maybe fix that? |
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| theAnonymous1 |
| quote: | Originally posted by john65b
Hey Anonymous1...how did your Entech Number Cruncher DAC work out? It would be yet another DAC option here...no soldering, as it is complete unit with power supply for under $50 on eBay...
I don't know if you have another DAC to compare it to, but I would be interested in hearing what you think of it... |
I don't have any other external DAC's to compare it to and thats probably a good thing. If I can't compare it to anything better there's no way for me to find any flaws in it.;)
In other words; I'm very content with the way it sounds. Its a major improvement over the output of my Audigy sound card that I was previously using. The highs are a lot less fatiguing and the mids are 10 fold smoother.
The Entech has gotten a lot of positive reviews over the years and being able to buy them at the current going price; its hard to beat.
I built new power supplies using dual secondaries with separate bridge rectifiers and caps. This is a major improvement over the original supply that was in my opinion the DAC's only major drawback.
Here is a pic of my yet to completed project....
http://i12.tinypic.com/334q34m.jpg
....and attached is a pic of how the original supply was setup. I'm not quite sure what this scheme is called; but I think its a half-wave voltage doubler. Feel free to correct me. The input is AC, I couldn't find a symbol without the + and - on it.:o
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| cowanrg |
| quote: | Originally posted by theAnonymous1
I don't have any other external DAC's to compare it to and thats probably a good thing. If I can't compare it to anything better there's no way for me to find any flaws in it.;)
In other words; I'm very content with the way it sounds. Its a major improvement over the output of my Audigy sound card that I was previously using. The highs are a lot less fatiguing and the mids are 10 fold smoother.
The Entech has gotten a lot of positive reviews over the years and being able to buy them at the current going price; its hard to beat.
I built new power supplies using dual secondaries with separate bridge rectifiers and caps. This is a major improvement over the original supply that was in my opinion the DAC's only major drawback.
Here is a pic of my yet to completed project....
http://i12.tinypic.com/334q34m.jpg
....and attached is a pic of how the original supply was setup. I'm not quite sure what this scheme is called; but I think its a half-wave voltage doubler. Feel free to correct me. The input is AC, I couldn't find a symbol without the + and - on it.:o
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what is that project you are working on? is that 3 entech's? will it be a 6-ch dac? |
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| cowanrg |
| i think im going to have to see how much of a budget i will have for this project. that will probably dictate which kit i go with. although, there doesnt seem to be much of a variance in the kits. |
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| theAnonymous1 |
| quote: | Originally posted by cowanrg
what is that project you are working on? is that 3 entech's? will it be a 6-ch dac? |
Yes sir, my project is a 6-channel DAC using 3 Entech 203.2's with an IR motorized volume control. The input signal will be from the 3 optical outs of a custom header for my Audigy card running kxdrivers.
I noticed when the Entech doesn't have a digital signal it puts out quite a bit of noise, not sure why. If you look on the left of the pic you will see 3 DPDT relays. I plan on connecting them to the "signal locked" LED output so when there isn't a signal it shorts the inputs of the amp its connected to. The relays only use 30ma, about the same as the LED. I've tested this out on one board already and it worked as planned.
The whole project cost a little over $300, and that includes 3 Entech 203.2 DACs, IR control board, Alps 6 gang pot, chassis, power supply parts, and other misc parts. |
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| john65b |
Anonymous1...
Wil you be using the stripped/modded DCP-501 amp board or 3 amp 6's for the 6 channel amp??
Just curious, and nosey... |
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| theAnonymous1 |
| quote: | Originally posted by john65b
Anonymous1...
Wil you be using the stripped/modded DCP-501 amp board or 3 amp 6's for the 6 channel amp??
Just curious, and nosey... |
I'll be using two rehoused and modded DCP-501 boards configured as 4-channel amps. One will be mids/highs and the other will have one 15" per channel for OB bass.
I'm still undecided about whether I want to build new power supplies for the boards or use the one they came with. A new supply would cost almost twice as much as I paid for each 501.
This started out as a budget Hi-Fi project but has far exceeded what I considered a "budget". I havn't even bought the $500 worth of speakers yet.:smash: |
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| john65b |
| Nice hobby, isn' it? Drives my wife crzy. |
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| cowanrg |
hum. i dont think anyone is going to be able to tell me which of these is the best sounding.
maybe my best bet would be to buy ALL of them and just test them against eachother. i bet that would be one popular thread... i wonder if anyone would be willing to give me a discount on them if i was going to do a shootout.
if someone was going to do a high-end dac kit shootout, which would be on the list? the extreme dac kit, the rockna RD-2 or 3, and the dddac. any others that should be on there? ill only end up keeping one of them. |
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