| kristleifur |
Stumbled upon the announcement that 41hz are shipping amp9 and amp11 now. Haven't seen it mentioned here, so I thought I'd give you a heads-up. I'm definitely not affiliated.
amp11:
http://41hz.com/main.aspx?pageID=131
"Mono, 60W @ 4 ohms"
amp9:
http://41hz.com/main.aspx?pageID=130
"A four channel amp suitable for 12V to 24V single supplies. An amp for very low impedance high power loads. Mostly hole mount components. "
These look nice. I don't know anything though :)
Haven't I seen a few people here either praising or looking forward to amps using the (edit) 4100 chip, like the amp9?
(edited topic, put the amp names in) |
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| djQUAN |
I'm waiting for amp8 and amp32. :)
can't seem to get satisfied with too much power. |
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| David Shanks |
I saw these too; I was looking seriously at two AMP4's to run my horn system actively instead of the modded Sonic Impacts I'm using at the moment. Tough choice between these and a pair of Charlize's. Now I'm thinking of a quad of AMP11's! (I have a friend who is very experienced with SMD construction, otherwise I wouldn't even consider this).
I don't need the extra power, but for some reason I think the bridged 2050 will sound better even at very low levels..would be interested in hearing from anyone with a differing opinion though. |
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| v-bro |
Amp32 and amp32-ps came out by the way!:) :) :) :) :)
Would like to know how the quality relates to the "old" amp3...
And am curious to the quality relations between amp6 and amp6 basic (besides the fact that one has a power supply on board..).
How are the new toroids?
Are they only smaller?
By the way:
Here's a ready made version of an amp with the same chip as amp9:
http://www.autocostruire.com/catalo...2c2e7a945ed0cfe
And one with two of 'em chips:
http://www.autocostruire.com/catalo...2c2e7a945ed0cfe
L:hot: :hot: king forward to the amp8 pictures!!! and specs.... |
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| v-bro |
| Just bought AMP9, allready owning an audiodigit... funny how the pcb's always seem smaller in reality.... |
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| Dxvideo |
Hi v-bro,
I want to build a 2 x 50W @ 4ohm HI-FI amplifier. I'm interested with 41Hz's AMP1 kit. But i have no experience about Class D and T products. And i have some questions about 41Hz Class T kits,
- Does sound quality of AMP1, comparable with LM3886, 3876 or 4780 GCs? What are the quality facts (SNR, PSRR, THD etc..) of it..
- I have two of MeanWell 24v 4,5A SMPS and i want to use that PSU's for AMP1 kit (which i plan to buy) as symmetrical supply. In that case should i add some extra components (or something else) to block high frequency noise or any other kind of noise that i dont know...?
- I plan to add a preamp (with tone controls) module to your AMP1 module, which;
http://sound.westhost.com/project97.htm
Does that preamp suitable for AMP1? Or what kind of preamp (with tone controls) do you recommend for it?
- For the AMP1 module, everything else power supply components includes to kit (TA2022, inductors,high quality resistors and polyester caps etc..) .. I mean "can i use it after soldering and connecting to my MW SMPSs without buy anything?". I'm asking that because its too hard to find high quality components in Turkey.
Thanks a lot for your replys in advance. After i have answers from you i will purchase an AMP1 module from your site...
Best regards,
Özgür |
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| Dxvideo |
| I am sorry, in fact i dont know the relationship between v-bro and 41Hz, but as i can see he (or she) looks like 41Hz's owner.. If i'm wrong i apologize from v-bro.. |
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| v-bro |
No need for an apology, but I'm not the owner. I placed the link there out of mere sympathy for Jan (the owner), I just love his amps and he's been very supportive...
The amp1 uses the same chip as amp5 (nicely visible in the 'amp overview' chart....) This is a quote from someone at the 41hz forum:
"...finished the AMP5 kit and guess what, it's replaced my dual channel LM3875 mono blocks. The dynamics are in a different league. I am using Dynaudio Audience 42 loudspeakers which are 4ohm and are fairly hard to drive.".
The only differences I know between amp1(-B) and amp5 are that amp 5 has a speaker protection relay and power supply componentry on board (rectifier bridge, 5V regulator, etc..). With amp1 you don't have either only with amp1-B you do have the speaker pr. relay. Both amp1 and amp1b need an external 5V supply (which can be made with a simple regulator on the same supply...)
SNR:102dB (104dB in bridge mode) A-weighted.
THD+N:0.015 (below 0.02 within certain power level)
PSRR:can't find it, normally very high with Tripath chips...
Only your supply will give an output power of 40watts 4 ohms and 25watts 8 ohms (clean power, below 0.02% THD+N)...and I think 4,5A is a bit small...it might work with 8 ohm speakers or not playing loud for long time...If you want the amp to perform at it's best I would suggest a higher voltage supply with more power...I don't think you need to add anything to filter out any noise...these amps seem to operate quite well from poorly stabilized and/or filtered PSU..
The amp produces 50 clean watts at 8 ohms and 75 watts 4 ohms with the higher supply voltage (4 ohms:32V but with 8 ohms:35V). Offcourse your PSU needs to be well stabilized than...
Look at this datasheet, it shows performance graphs:
http://41hz.com/downloads/TA2022.pdf |
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| cotdt |
| AMP7 looks promising... =) |
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| Dxvideo |
Thank you v-bro.. Your informations will be very usefull to me. But i afraid i have more questions,
- The forumer from 41Hz says "dynamics are in a different league". Do you think it upgrades to super league or down to the local league:D Means should i get it positive or negative, its not clear?
- 102dB is weighted at full output power. Dont you think its wrong? Because it should be at 1W output... As you know at lower points noise is more important..
- You say "speaker protector relay". Will my speakers need protection? Or protection from what? By the way, will my tweeters safe with AMP1 or AMP5? I asked that because of PWM frequency is ultra sonic so it can kill my tweeter while i cannot hear it. May be or not?
- Whats the voltage gain of AMP1? Does line level (0,775v) signal enough for full output?
- I have TWO of SMPS and each of them is 24v 4,5A, if i connect them in serial and middle point will be the GND the result will be as that;
24 + 24 = 48v x 4,5A = 216VA.
I will need 2 x 50W = 100W by %80 (at least) efficiency = 125W. Is there any issue that i missed? And i can adjust the output voltage that SMPSs until 26,8v.. Do you think they will enough for my needs?
And a final question; have you ever used any of 41Hz kits? If you have used what are your observations?
Sorry, i asked a lot i know that.. But i am very sceptical at this point because of my poor class T knowledge.
Thank you very very much, with my best regards,
Özgür |
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| kristleifur |
| quote: | Originally posted by Dxvideo
- The forumer from 41Hz says "dynamics are in a different league". Do you think it upgrades to super league or down to the local league:D Means should i get it positive or negative, its not clear?
- Whats the voltage gain of AMP1? Does line level (0,775v) signal enough for full output? |
"In a different league" usually means "much better" :)
Regarding the voltage gain:
I just downloaded the assembly instructions for the Amp1 and Amp5 and looked at them. There wasn't anything in the Amp1 instructions about setting voltage gain, but the gain is settable in the Amp5 by exchanging gain resistors. Both amps use the same chip AFAIK, so I guess there might be a chance of swapping corresponding resistors in the Amp1 to change the gain in that too. |
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| Dxvideo |
Thank you my friend.. I asked the "league" question because of my poor English knowledge. For voltage gain question. I need that information for; do i need a preamp or not for line level signals. I'll ask to Mr Jan. Thank you again for all..
Best regards, |
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| v-bro |
I've just finished building my first AMP9, took me six hours straight... winded the toroids nicely tight.. And dous it sound good? No, it sounds great! Now listening to it for the first hour I realize it sounds quite different from the Audiodigit... Can't really judge how it will sound after a good break-in period but it appears the staging is more precise, the low frequencies seem to extend deeper and mid frequencies seem to have more detail and richness...it's just scary to listen to some tracks with my eyes closed..
I also like the class A/B optional switch, the larger buffer capacity (6x2200uF=13200uF in the Audiodigit where the AMP9 has 3x12000uF=36000uF!!), the wider PCB leads at high current connections, the overload and fault led options and the PCB measures smaller than the Audiodigit. The input caps are also larger, maybe that's why it goes sooo deeeep...
I think these toroids also make a lot of difference, the Audiodigit has aircore coils..AMP9 just sounds more lively and seems like having more power, it sounds like a 'bigger' amp with more control..it's more articulate, but not in any way harsh or sharp edged..rather smooth and easy..
Love it allready, just have to put it in a box..:)
By the way I measured barely 10uH on my LCR meter with the whole toroid (a single layer) filled, no spaces visible, even pushed every winding on them, 45 windings max. Though the assembly instructions indicate 42 windings to be enough..
Here's a pic of my test configuration (thanks to some of you guys :worship: I've come up with a very effective way of clipping the chip to a piece of aluminum with silicone cloth inbetween...): |
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| felixx |
| But how is the sound comparing with Amp1 ? |
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| v-bro |
| I wonder a lot! Gonna buy either amp1, amp5 or amp 11 soon.... |
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| dwk123 |
My question is when they say 'mostly' through-hole components, what does that mean? From the pics on the site, it looks like the only smd stuff is the two sets of relatively large caps. If so, I might not mess it up too badly.
After building it, would you say that it would be OK as the first smd-related project for a non-expert solderer? |
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| v-bro |
Hi,
the SMD parts are large enough to grab with your fingers, on my AMP9 board the only SMD parts are relatively large diodes....(16 pieces each side...). The hardest part of creating the amp was winding them f....n' toroids, but after making two with my bare hands I used some tools (being very carefull not to crack the ferrite)
As it's very important to get the windings really close to the ferrite I placed the wire under my feet applying tension to the copper and pinching it all 'round with a pair of pliers. Thiw proved to be the only way to get 45 windings (which I consider max.) around the toroid in one layer..(mostly measuring 0.90uH barely peaking at 10uH, but amp works and sounds fine). I would advise to glue the toroids well to the board....
There are always lots of optional components going with each amp from 41hz...I've mounted them all, since (for instance the input protection zeners) I'm going to pass the amp on to somebody else (a collegue) who won't bother being carefull with it anyway...
But the AMP9 has lots of options the Audiodigit doesn't have (the Audiodigit has two led mounting options on the board both with the same function :confused: where the AMP9 has three with different function (power, fault and overload indication)...
The one I use is the 12V "low profile" version by the way with 16V caps, the 'normal' version has 3x15000uF 35V caps, must be a bit more powerfull at 27V..but like the Audiodigit it sounds great from 12V (SMPS)...and can handle the enormous load I connect to it...(ESL loudspeakers you see...)... |
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| v-bro |
| quote: | Originally posted by v-bro
(16 pieces each side...). |
Sorry,
I meant 16 pieces, 8 each side of the board....
amp9.... |
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| Spasticteapot |
I think I'm getting an Amp4 or a pair of Amp11's for the holiday season.
Mmm...tripath. |
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| v-bro |
| Probably my next: 2x AMP1 or AMP5 bridged (monoblocks...):smash: |
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| v-bro |
| Finally encased it... |
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| DocLorren |
Another beauty V-Bro!
We should arrange a listening session shortly in The Netherlands.
Lot of D-class amps awaiting right? |
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| v-bro |
Oh yes, and there are more to come! Welcome Welcome!
I've just really started to listen to AMP9 and it keeps surprising me, what a wonderfull amp....sigh.... Showed it to my collegues yesterday and they were really surprised again by the enormous power from such a small box...'so there are two stereo amps in there?! Waaow!' Tomorrow (if there's time) I will connect some PA speakers at work, one of my collegues insisted upon doing this test...
I've just recently upgraded my subs at home a bit and will test AMP9 in parallel on them soon..(I have three TAA4100A-based amps at the moment..two can drive my speakers at home, one in my car if it performs well in parallel. otherwise I'll sell one to a friend...my car will have an SMPS-driven AMP5 or two AMP11 in the near future....) |
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| bellwood |
Hi,
I assembled AMP11.
However, the amplifier does not take the trouble of moving as it thinks.
LED of fail and mute were lighted
When I touched the land of R52(IC side) by the human body, LED turns off and the sound came out normally.
Also, LED turns off when I touch VPPSENSE of TC2001 with the tester and the sound came out normally. |
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| v-bro |
It's hard to say what exactly is going on from here, but I think it is a bad connection or bad soldering somewhere. Make sure the status of the led should be 'normally-on' or 'normally-off'....
AMP11 is not for beginners, it uses mainly SMD components...to have a go at some 'easier' amps first can teach you what to look for when problems occur...
-Is the chip well aligned?
-Did you measure all connections to the chip legs for conductivity or short cuts?
-Are all components placed correctly? (+ and - for caps, diodes, and no exchanges...)
-Did you rinse all solder flux contamination off the board, especially around the chip legs? (use alcohol and a tooth brush for instance)...
You can use a strong spotlight to hold the board against to see the leads/connections better...
Go over it and go over it.....and go over it again....
Use your dmm wisely... |
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| bellwood |
Hi v-bro,
Thank you for your advice.
I did bill the solder and the check of the part many times.
However, the skill of the problem solution seems to not sufficient to me.
I want to try as I am played the music with this amplifier. |
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| v-bro |
| From what eyou describe the problem probably has to do with a connection that fails to connect to ground... You're just a footstep away from a working amp I think....This CAN make it like looking for a needle in a haystack....:smash: |
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| bellwood |
I removed C1 and J5.
However, two terminals of C1 seem to be connected to GND.
Each bill solder is being confirmed with the magnifier with the tester.
However, I am not able to discover the differences in two amplifiers.
And, the check of the circuit during the output I have short-circuited and there is not the reaction of one AMP11.
I seem to have crushed IC. :bawling: :bawling: |
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| v-bro |
I doubt it, I thought this many times during the construction of lots of AMP32 kits....In the end I had them all working, this is a very good SMD-amp to start with by the way...
I think the chip won't be damaged from short circuiting the output, all Tripath amps I've tried are well protected against this... Did you install an overload led? Normally only the led will burn when the outputs are shorted and the amps switches itself off, I think you made a short circuit somewhere. Than also the amp will never produce sound, it will remain in 'protection mode'.... My suspicion gets stronger because you measure a connection between both pads of C1 to ground, this seems odd to me....
To get this straight, I've never built an AMP11 myself... I do intend to as it seems like a very fine amp...
Maybe you can ask Jan from 41hz for more specific information....open a customers support thread, he does answer these! Or start with a thread at the 41hz forum, Jan would prefer you to do this first...
I'm getting into the instruction manual of AMP11 and datasheet of TK2050 to see if I can find out more, maybe I even find something helpfull...;)
Good luck for now!:smash: |
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