| tarcuper |
Do anyone wants to probe pure carbon cable?
Smooth sound, low noise, much detail
Insulation polyethilen, resistance 5 Ohm/m, outer diameter 4mm.
You can use it for interconnenting, inner cabling of low current signal in amplifiers, dac, cd players, etc.
The first ten diy member, who are interested in, now get the stuff for no costs at all.
I'll post 4x25cm cables, already applied with contacts, so you can solder easy them.
I only want to read your serious experience about the diy use of these cables. |
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| morpheus82 |
| why not?i'm in for a set!let's try these...you can post a picture it will be more interesting... |
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| jasonlky |
Hi,
Sign me up for your carbon cables. I am currently building a new pre and power amp and I am experimenting using the best quality components that I can sanely afford without angering my wife. I am also building my own cables using techniques that can be downloaded from the net. As u can imagine, if I use good quality components in my amps, I would expect the same quality in my cables. I could use the carbon cables as hookup wires in my pre amp and possibly the power amp.
I have also diyed my own UP OCC based copper interconnects, while they are good, I am still not satisfied and I am now experimenting with different geometry for the interconnect construction. If your carbon cables work as well as you advertise, I would be in audio nirvana. Since I am building balanced XLR cables, any chance that I can get 6 x 50cm cables? 25cm is abit short for my application.
While not complaining, 4x25cm would do just as nicely.
Thanks |
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| morpheus82 |
| i'm building too!8 x lm4780 parallel power amp!!i was thinking to use for dac to amp connection, but are they coaxial?anyway i have several places where to use them...:D |
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| torzsok |
| I'm in also. The cheaper for you, as I'm from Budapest too. |
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| FastEddy |
I will be building microphone XLR cables (as pre-amp to amp interface and/or microphone to pre-amp) ... similar to jasonlky above. I too "am experimenting using the best quality components that I can sanely afford without angering my wife".
I will need two "carbon wires", 30 meters total length each, for prototypes. (Conductor diameter of 4 MM with 5 Ohms per meter should not be a problem as it is additive to overall impedence ... yes?)
Your recommendations for structure of these XLR terminated cables will be appreciated = two "carbon wire" with metal wire ground? ... three "carbon wire"? ... other? ... termination with what? ... silver solder? ... mechanical (pressure)? ... other?
Got production costs? (Payment by PayPal?) ... volume discounts? ... shipping wieghts? ... importing into Nortrh America, duties and/or taxes?
All of the above can be resolved later, but prototypes first, yes?
email: support@firewirestuff.com
http://industrialcomponent.com/contact.html
:smash: |
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| FastEddy |
Yes I would like to get your 25 CM sample(s) for initial tests prior to purchase of segments as I describe above.
Will I need two? ... or three? ... to build a complete XLR cable.
I believe for XLR cables it might be a good idea to use #18 AWG silver/copper, teflon covered as ground (center) conductor in a balanced line, mostly for mechanical reasons. ... Yes?
Thanks
:smash: |
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| Stevox |
Hi,
You can also, Sign me up for your free carbon cables.
I am currently building a DAC and could use some good cable for inside the dac.
Thanks, |
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| mike.m216 |
| I'm interested in trying this out. |
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| Zen Mod |
am I in first 10?
I'm interested to compare carbon to till now my fave silvered Cu tiny solid core.......... |
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| tarcuper |
Please send email to me, and I post the sample cables on monday for everybody
Thanks |
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| morpheus82 |
| i've already sent you an email, did you receive it? |
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| jasonlky |
| tarcuper, email sent. |
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| exhausted mule |
Highly interested.
i'm looking to put together a reference system that will be used in a measurement and design room.
if these could compare to possibly the best on the market available today...
then pls, count me in. |
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| FastEddy |
email sent this day 8/18
Thanks
FastEddy |
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| dagney2000 |
Hi Tarcuper.
Í am very interessted in the carbon cable set that you provide for testing.
I am a very keen listener and so you will have my serious opinion about this cable.
Hopefully I will be one of your nominies.
Best regards
Gi |
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| torzsok |
| Well, it seems that I'm too new here (though I have been reading for about a year but no posts from me), and can not email. Any suggestions? |
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| morpheus82 |
post, post and...if you don't know what to do...post!:D
you can post your email so he can contact you...:cool: |
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| FastEddy |
... click on "tarcuper" 's name, fill out the email message with your particulars ... a response would be up to Mr. "Tarcuper", but if you don't have incoming email facilities, then simple "snail mail" may have to suffice ... be sure to indicate such ...
:smash: |
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| tarcuper |
dear folks,
I1ll send to everybody the sample cables, but please mail me the adresses (who didn't do it yet), because I cannot send email to you via diyaudio.
thx
tarcuper |
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| dagney2000 |
Hi Tarcuper.
Í am very interessted in the carbon cable set that you provide for testing.
I am a very keen listener and so you will have my serious opinion about this cable.
Hopefully I will be one of your nominies.
Best regards
Gi |
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| tarcuper |
It is not so rigorous the limit, how many inquiring can get carbon cable sample.
Therfore, welcome, who want to probe it, please mail me your postal adress, I post them via air mail, so I hope everybody will write his experience the sooner, the better:) |
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| mike.m216 |
| Did you recieve my email? :) |
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| Stevox |
Hi Tarcuper,
I received your cables today, and would see if I can build them in my DAC to test them this weekend.
Thanks.
Peter |
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| tarcuper |
| This is the sample cable I've post to everybody, with solderable connections |
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| tarcuper |
| I attached the photo, but I do not see it |
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| mike.m216 |
| Looks interesting! Looking forward to getting mine! |
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| tarcuper |
cleaning, sticking, crimping... it looks easy...
perfect litze structure, 48.000 fibres, but I can make thicker of course, but making good contacts is already not so easy.
But it worth while, because no more harsh at all, you can hear louder with no disturb, or quietly with no loss of details, because of the lower noise floor...
but...
some people like excitement in music, they never mind more harmonics, little more distortion, more bass feeling, etc. This cable is not for them.
If you like relaxing or discovering music, do not want more from music, than exist, yes, this carbon cable is probable for you. |
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| FastEddy |
tarcuper: " ... some people like excitement in music, they never mind more harmonics, little more distortion, more bass feeling, etc. This cable is not for them. ..."
For our projects we are looking for the very best possible signal pass through = least distortion, lowest noise floor (maximum headroom), better impedence match at audio frequencies, etc. ... the best possible XLR cable.
:smash:
I understand something about crimp connections and was wondering, over time and usage, if the crimp connections deteriorate or get lose or change impedence?
I would have guessed that the application of solder might improve mechanical strength by filling any gaps between the crimped connector and the fibers. Would crimping and soldering improve the longer term connections ... Yes?? Would adding solder to the crimping be worth the trouble & expense? :confused: |
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| exhausted mule |
i would think so eddy,
expecially if your thinking of connecting/disconnecting the cables more than a few times. |
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| morpheus82 |
| hmm...i really think that soldering carbon will be VERY hard...or maybe it's just an impression?:confused: |
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| tarcuper |
You cannot solder carbon at all.
Crimping technics is used by much well known cable production firms, it is probably better than soldering.
Carbon absolutely stand up against corrosions. |
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| Stevox |
Hi Tarcuper,
I have connected your cables in my DAC output, and yes it sound different now.
It is what your are saying a little quiter and less harsh, soundstage is good.
But I have to listen more.
Thanks,
Peter. |
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| FastEddy |
tarcuper: " ... You cannot solder carbon at all. Crimping technics is used by much well known cable production firms, it is probably better than soldering. Carbon absolutely stand up against corrosions. ..."
Got it for sure. No solder allowed.
Stevox: " ... have connected your cables in my DAC output, and yes it sound different now. It is what your are saying a little quiter and less harsh, soundstage is good. ..."
?? Is it going to be worth EU$4 per meter ?? ... I guess I'll just have to wait for my samples.
Patience is a virtue ...
:smash: |
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| exhausted mule |
tarcuper,
quick question, how do these cables stand up to heat? (ie: a heatshrink gun) |
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| Zen Mod |
| quote: | Originally posted by exhausted mule
tarcuper,
quick question, how do these cables stand up to heat? (ie: a heatshrink gun) |
ends are heatshrinked |
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| exhausted mule |
| quote: | Originally posted by Zen Mod
ends are heatshrinked |
thanks |
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| jasonlky |
Tarcuper,
I have received the carbon cables. Thanks. I have decided to use is as hookup cables in my preamp build. Does this make sense? Sometimes I ask myself if this is logical as the rest of the tracks in the PCBs is just normal copper.
Anyway, my proposal is to cut up the carbon cable to my desired lengths and terminate them using my own crimp connectors. I am aiming for the shortest possible signal paths. Please advise how I should go about this and what crimp connectors should be used. I have not taken apart the heatshrink of your cable to check them out yet. Need your advise. |
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| FastEddy |
" ... I have decided to use is as hookup cables in my preamp build. Does this make sense? ..."
Yes, and the closer to the pick up(s), the better. If there is a noticable difference it should occure close to a microphone, guitar pickup or phonograph cartrage ... between the pickup(s) and the pre-amp of incoming into the first amplification stage ... There may already be some discussions about using carbon conductors between the phono cartrage and the first pre-amp stage.
Alternately you might consider using it between a quality stand alone pre-amp and the amp.
As Tarcuper has already noted, the "wire" has about 5 ohms impedence per meter, so connections between high impedence inputs and outputs is probably a better choice.
(Using this stuff for speaker "wire" would most certainly be wasteful and counter productive. Example: 8 ohm impedence of speakers being changed by the 5 to 10 ohm contribution of the "wire".)
:smash: |
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| jasonlky |
| Should I be concerned about the mechanical pressure applied to crimp the carbon conductors to the solderable wires? |
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| tarcuper |
| quote: | Originally posted by jasonlky
Should I be concerned about the mechanical pressure applied to crimp the carbon conductors to the solderable wires? |
Yes you should crimp in that way with a wire tubing made from Cu.
Interesting fact, that the shorter the carbon cable, not better the sound. Interconnect cable about 25 cm length does not sound better, than say 70 cm.
If anybody wants more cable, email me the punctual lengths, and I make it so and send to you.
It costs 4 euro/m + 1 euro/connection. I think, it is not much for that quality. I am excitedly waiting for the impressions about the use of samples.
:yes: |
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| exhausted mule |
| i will post as soon i as receive the cables and put them to use. |
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| jarthel |
received the cables.
1. can I use it as a hookup wire? amp pcb to the output leads?
2. can I twist 2 wires together?
3. from reading other replies, it seems I cannot cut these wires?
thank you. |
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| morpheus82 |
| me too!received, now i just have to found out a little bit of time to use them...otherwise they look great!:up: |
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| tarcuper |
| quote: | Originally posted by jarthel
received the cables.
1. can I use it as a hookup wire? amp pcb to the output leads?
2. can I twist 2 wires together?
3. from reading other replies, it seems I cannot cut these wires?
thank you. |
Of course, this cable is excellent as hook up wire.
You can twist them easily, and it's recommended.
Do not cut it now please, if you like it, you can order them in any length with contacts. |
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| poobah |
Why are people considering this nutty stuff?
Really? Why?
:rolleyes: |
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| jarthel |
| quote: | Originally posted by poobah
Why are people considering this nutty stuff?
Really? Why?
:rolleyes: |
4 letters: F R E E |
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| poobah |
I guess...
It is COMPLETELY retarded though. This may be the most asinine thing I've heard from here yet. |
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| astouffer |
| Hey if its good enough for spark plugs on a 1990 caprice its good enough for high end ;) Why, just why can't I think of things like this to sell? While on the topic of ridiculous cables. Ever see those cables advertised in stereophile that need 36v of bias along the length for some odd reason? |
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| auplater |
| quote: | Originally posted by poobah
I guess...
It is COMPLETELY retarded though. This may be the most asinine thing I've heard from here yet. |
I've got some .030 self-fluxing welding wire I'm gonna try as interconnects w/o the ground...
they'll replace the coat hangers I've been using for 20 yrs. or so...
...way I figure it, you can't git ground loops w/o that silly ole ground wire on the outside screwing things up...so it should have less noise floor signal
:D |
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| poobah |
I cannot for the life of me understand the rational of introducing resistance in places where we like to pretend it is zero. Not to mention, we know that carbon is pretty aweful as far as a resistor is concerned... good for guitar amps.
:rolleyes: |
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| FastEddy |
" ... Why are people considering this nutty stuff? ..."
Why not! ... seems like it is worthwhile trying it, even if the math does not look right (5 ohms per meter >=not=< 0.05 ohms per meter).
It may be possible that the use of carbon conductors in certain situations could prove to be better than current technologies or standard practices.
It may be a waste of time, but sometimes us DIY types feel the need to try something new, just see if we are missing anything.
(I believe it will make good, possibly great, microphone cable ... but I gotta try it first to be sure.)
:smash: |
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| poobah |
That might explain having a degree in physics and no job in physics... in your own words.
Really dude... whacky is whacky. It's one thing to sell BS... it's another thing to embrace it.
Can't y'all just put resistors in series with your cables and pretend?
:(
This is FRIGHTENING... it REALLY is.
:( |
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| exhausted mule |
what's that saying?
better to have loved and lost...
than to never have loved at all?
something like that... |
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| poobah |
No... it's called common sense.
Why not put 1/16 inch (1.5mm) piping in your house and enjoy the rich clarity of taking a shower.
Stupid is as stupid does, Sir.
:) |
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| exhausted mule |
Thanks poobah, your comment has been noted.
i'm sure there's a reason why this gentleman is sampling his cables...
Understanding the drawback of carbon I for one am still willing to see it measured and scrutinised under my own means.
If perhaps nothing can come of these cables then i just wont buy his next shipment to canada.
however, if there are some benefits we haven't seen with using carbon,
then a few us will be on the early bandwagon.
only way to find out is to try it. |
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| jarthel |
isn't science about "going boldly where no one has gone before"??
===========
sun revolving around the earth?
man on the moon?
man flying like the birds?
magellan setting sail to the "edge of the world"?
==================== |
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| poobah |
OK... that is brain surgery...
The gentlemen is sampling his cable because he hopes to sell some of it... is that HARD to grasp? He probably bought a roll of 20,000 meters at a surplus auction. Where is the spec sheet? Where is the part number? Why doesn't the seller explain how to properly terminate the wire?
It looks like low grade, reject, spark-plug wire to me... probably from a Yugo factory!
The problem is that one moron will get some cable... and speak of its virtues... no data... no facts... just listening (from people that listen to disco & pop)... but that won't matter.
This forum should be better than that... should it not? This isn't about being open minded... it's about being stupid.
DAMN!
Can I sell you some lake property in Florida? Why can't people who don't know jack trust poeple that DO know jack?
:( |
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| poobah |
jarthel,
Right! Oh so right! Audio is not about science anymore... really. It is about APPLIED SCIENCE... engineering. There are a few mysteries I 'spose... and speakers still SUCK!
The guys that figured: earth around the sun, moon around the earth, weren't selling anything, in fact, they got punished for speaking the truth.
BTW... I have spent plenty of time, as have many others, helping you with a design; don't go down this path, we enjoy helping others.
This is just BS. |
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| exhausted mule |
poobah,
you should have chimmed in earlier about the reasoning behind your prohibitions with this member and his samples.
otherwise it just looks like you have nothing else better to do on a saturday night than ***** about growing thread you haven't regarded as worth your time beforehand... |
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| Zen Mod |
Poobah and few others
you are damn rude in last few pages;
tarcuper give samples,without any obligation ;
he want to sell what he have,but without any obligation,again ;
now,just reread his posts in this thread,and you'll see that he's not sneak oiling in any moment;
before sending samples,he even didn't say anything about expected quality and virtues.
now-if you or someone else continue with this pupu sharade what's good and what's not,I'll personally report to mods that we have here issue with typical school children bullying
:hot: |
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| tarcuper |
Dear Poobah,
I recommend to you to glance this, especially about carbon cable benefits:
[URL=http://www.vandenhul.com/artpap/hybrid.htm]
My cable is made of the same carbon fiber hasp.
5 micron elementary fibre, 48000 pieces, or two or four times more as desired
de facto absolut litze construction
no crystall crossover distortion at all
never sounds harsh, but no loss of details
very low noise
by far the best quality/price ratio
what to want so far?
It is not a spark-plug wire at all. Why are you so viciously? Do you think that you know everything about audio?
Tarcuper |
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| mrshow4u |
| Ya know, I'm kinda with Poobah on this one. A couple of posts back, somebody responded to my post and said something like "...you might progress from your current understanding of audio" and went on to talk about how it was more "emotional" and "spiritual". Hmmm, okay that's kinda weird. Aren't there bigger fish to fry in improving audio than the 0.000000% THD wires? These differences are so large that nobody wants to take part in blind listening tests. So when a new super-material is stumbled upon and listened too, it wont be subjected to any scientifically based testing. I don't know, that sounds all very mystical. |
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| Bare |
Ohhhh.. Great another audiophool who's 'discovered' Spark Plug Wires
Sorry Mate.. But Van den Huil Cornered the fool market with those some time ago :-) |
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| phn |
| quote: | Originally posted by poobah
Why doesn't the seller explain how to properly terminate the wire?
:( |
You can't. It's like Van den Hul's carbon fibre cables. They have to be factory terminated. The Van den Hul site has more details. There are also more details on how the cables work, having quite high resistance. |
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| poobah |
All,
This came from van den Hul's 3rd paragraph... where I stopped.| quote: | | I have named this: Cross Crystal Distortion (CCD). |
Does this guy have anything to sell? Why doesn't the big shot Nobel scientist publish a white paper?
Choky,
You KNOW better than this... or you should... really.
You know... the man on the corner also gives you your first rocks of crack for free. NOT an accusation... just something to remember.
REAL products have REAL data sheets with specifications. The real data sheets will tell you how to use the product (terminate?).
Has this stuff been dipped in liquid nitrogen?
Will it work better with pointy feet on the bottom?
Does it have arrows so we know which direction to put it?
How long does it take to break in?
How long before it wears out?
How fast is it?
Is it Oxygen free?
Who is the manufacturer?
What is the part number?
Where is the data sheet?
Where did you get it and how?
:rolleyes: |
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| Zen Mod |
| quote: | Originally posted by poobah
All,
This came from van den Hul's 3rd paragraph... where I stopped.
Does this guy have anything to sell? Why doesn't the big shot Nobel scientist publish a white paper?
Choky,
You KNOW better than this... or you should... really.
You know... the man on the corner also gives you your first rocks of crack for free. NOT an accusation... just something to remember.
REAL products have REAL data sheets with specifications. The real data sheets will tell you how to use the product (terminate?).
Has this stuff been dipped in liquid nitrogen?
Will it work better with pointy feet on the bottom?
Does it have arrows so we know which direction to put it?
How long does it take to break in?
How long before it wears out?
How fast is it?
Is it Oxygen free?
Who is the manufacturer?
What is the part number?
Where is the data sheet?
Where did you get it and how?
:rolleyes: |
poobah
yes,I received samples but,due to my constant lack of time in last period,I didn't tried them yet.
but-that is not really important;
what is important-I didn't reacted on your opinion,or professional attitude or whatever,and I usually have attitude regarding snake oiling same as yours ;
I reacted on way how you and few other boyz and girlz here presented own attitude - in bad manners and in lousy way.
tarcuper do his job in polite way ;
you and I and anybody else can have each own opinion about articles he try to sell,but we also have obligation to be polite to other members.
next step freely can be that we call ppl names as schweine,pig,racist etc,whenever other side have diff opinion .
correct me if I'm wrong ?
I repeat-I really don't have any opinion about sonic capabilities of tarcuper's cables either positive or negative;
not yet. |
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| poobah |
Choky,
I haven't called anybody anything. Sorry if anyone is offended.
I'll just watch from now on...
But, someone will come along and report good results with this cable... then where does it go? Think about it...
Someone is going to get offended by the circumstances and truths... not me. Research "N-Rays".
BS is a communicable disease... nothing wrong with vaccinations.
And yes Exhausted Mule... I was spoiling for fight... nothing makes me madder than this never ending cable garbage, and N-Rays.
:) |
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| exhausted mule |
that's ok poobah,
I sure there are alot of things that get your angst going...
as for the cables, I am sure i will be able to form my own opinion about these otherwise i would have started my own thread concerning the benefits/downfalls of using a said type of carbon as an electrical conductor.
Like i posted earlier. i will compare everyaspect of these cables with modern top of the line interconnects ( i plan on using these from pre>amp). I will post my findings as subjectively and un-biasly (word?) as possible.
general antics like yours spoil if for anybody who might be unbiased towards their goals.
Audio isn't a cult, its a way of life. so pls. give those involved a little more credit and respect. its only kind to ask of from such a dedicated individual such as you no?
(P.S. If they sound like **** i wont use them. plain and simple) |
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| Scottmoose |
| FWIW, I can think of a few occasions where a high[er] resistance cable might be of some use -like with low Q FR drivers being powered with an SS amp. It's should help lower the damping factor and prevent said amp overdamping the driver and the bass from vanishing, so there is some science here. But equally, 30AWG magnet wire or a small high-power resistor would have the same effect. I can't see there being anything else notable though. If it's not monstrously priced, no voodoo lies are used to market it, and it makes people enjoy their system more (irrespective of whether or not it actually makes a difference itself), fair enough. |
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| Zen Mod |
| quote: | Originally posted by poobah
Choky,
I haven't called anybody anything. Sorry if anyone is offended.
I'll just watch from now on...
But, someone will come along and report good results with this cable... then where does it go? Think about it...
Someone is going to get offended by the circumstances and truths... not me. Research "N-Rays".
BS is a communicable disease... nothing wrong with vaccinations.
And yes Exhausted Mule... I was spoiling for fight... nothing makes me madder than this never ending cable garbage, and N-Rays.
:) |
nah;
just enjoy in your audio fun and leave others to do the same ;)
express your opinion ,same as others;
tell that something is BS,and that's always fine with me;
but-what is important -you can always be a gentleman .
in this world,where we all can have different tastes and opinions , we need one common thing to communicate- politeness.
besides that,you can count that we ,luckily,have another common thing-passion for music and electronic
:devilr: |
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| rdf |
| quote: | Originally posted by Scottmoose
FWIW, I can think of a few occasions where a high[er] resistance cable might be of some use.... |
Or a grid stopper ahead of an input tube, normally much higher than a few ohms in resistance. I have no interest in trying but there's probably an argument to be made that high resistance interconnects stabilize some less than optimally-designed (cough...cough) front ends. |
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| poobah |
| That is exactly what I'm talking about... :up: |
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| Zen Mod |
| quote: | Originally posted by rdf
..... but there's probably an argument to be made that high resistance interconnects stabilize some less than optimally-designed (cough...cough) front ends. |
why for "less than optimally....."
interconnect can bring differences in sound ;for worse or better-that is often decided with someone's ears or -better-taste.
on the other hand-why is always presumed that any wire for signal (except speaker wire ) must have negligible resistance?
negligible comparing to what?
I'm really not questioning here;just pointing on (I think) most important issue in debate (weakest point in arguments of one side).
just for record-I'm not on any side ;good piece of conductor is good,no matter does it have or not few ohms |
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| rdf |
I didn't say resistance is bad, only that it might be beneficial in a cable under certain conditions. It was meant as inclusive, not exclusive. As I know you know, added resistance between final output device and first input device is a very, very common practice, usually in the form of a grid stopper in tube circuits for example. Some designers may not use them, in those cases high R cables might provide a rather prosaic benefit. If so the reason here would be rather uncontroversial even if the expense wasn't. That isn't to say carbon might not have a benefit elsewhere. If like a resistor the cable generates low level 2nd harmonic, there is the theoretical possibility of distortion cancellation when followed by an active device with equal 2nd harmonic content. It would be rare and of contestable benefit but possible.
This example too isn't to be exclusive, just tossing out potential ideas for investigation. More importantly, I haven't a clue, having never seen or touched the stuff. Growing up, mom always warned me never to make concrete proclamations on complex and arcane physical interactions at the sub-atomic level beyond my personal realm of experimental experience. (She also said never lie but I obviously just failed her with that last sentence.) |
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| poobah |
It's a certainty that somewhere, somehow, the application of resistance will improve things. I have wondered the same thing about serendipitous cancellation in tube rigs being resonsible for the charmed reputation of carbon comps.
The danger lies in falsely assessing causality; especially when it comes to something like cable...
:xeye: |
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| tarcuper |
Does it have arrows so we know which direction to put it?
No, it has no direction at all. Has your plug the right direction?
How long does it take to break in?
There is no need to break in, except because of the plug. Is there any firm claiming the break in time of their RCA plug?
How long before it wears out?
More than you should worry about it.
How fast is it?
You can use it in the 100 megahertz region, if you twist them properly.
Is it Oxygen free?
Yes, it is.
Who is the manufacturer?
It is made in Hungary as a whole
What is the part number?
bad question
Where is the data sheet?
bad question
Where did you get it and how?
bad question, see answer above
Judge before hearing it is vicious and slightly baroque:) |
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| Scottmoose |
| quote: | Originally posted by poobah
It's a certainty that somewhere, somehow, the application of resistance will improve things. I have wondered the same thing about serendipitous cancellation in tube rigs being resonsible for the charmed reputation of carbon comps.
The danger lies in falsely assessing causality; especially when it comes to something like cable...
:xeye: |
Agreed, with no bias or reference to any particular product.
Personally, I do not believe we can hear the difference between materials, nor do I consider cables to be a 'component' per se, except insofar as their electrical properties can affect the response of the components attached to each end, for example, a power-amp and drive-unit, in either a benefical or detrimental fashion, depending on what you need it to do. Theoretically, in a well-designed system, you shouldn't need a cable to do anything other than carry a signal, but life is rarely ideal. |
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| exhausted mule |
| quote: | Originally posted by Scottmoose
Agreed, with no bias or reference to any particular product.
Personally, I do not believe we can hear the difference between materials, nor do I consider cables to be a 'component' per se, except insofar as their electrical properties can affect the response of the components attached to each end, for example, a power-amp and drive-unit, in either a benefical or detrimental fashion, depending on what you need it to do. Theoretically, in a well-designed system, you shouldn't need a cable to do anything other than carry a signal, but life is rarely ideal. |
the quality of your cables are just as important as the quality of the capacitors used in your "components"
a system is an integral components of its own. to mismatch one component throws off the entirety of the system as a whole.
now, in a perfect system, you would have you, in an empty space listening to the thoughts of an individual minus the medium in which it is transmitted.
so perhaps a cable has meaning or importance to the system its providing for... to discredit that is to discredit what the original goal of the first hi-fi stereo system was in the first place.
authenticity. its a personal choice on who strives for it or not. but i'm pretty sure the reason behind the debate of cable quality is derived from that fact. |
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| rdf |
| quote: | Originally posted by poobah
.... I have wondered the same thing about serendipitous cancellation in tube rigs being resonsible for the charmed reputation of carbon comps..... |
I doubt it in the general case. Effectively nulling the second harmonic by cancellation requires close matching of harmonic injection between the two devices across a wide range of operating levels. It's not an easy target to hit and pure luck without plenty of measurements. |
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| Scottmoose |
Of course it's electrical parameters affect other components. But 'quality' of wire means very little. Quality does not automatically mean OFC, silver, carbon, teflon, gold or a flood of precious metals or odd substances. It just means choosing the right thing for the right situation. 30AWG magnet wire is a 'quality' cable for example if used in circumstances in which it would benefit the system's accuracy. Whether or not you tailor the effect a piece of wire makes to minimise or maximise these is of course down to the bloke designing the system in the first place.
For myself, there are no capaciors at all in my amplifier (apart from it's power supply) or speakers, not that they've ever given me great cause for concern anyway as transformers and transitors, to say nothing of the source, produce far more distortion than they do. Most fancy caps produce more distortion than regular types according to the measurements I've seen BTW. |
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| rdf |
| quote: | Originally posted by Scottmoose
It just means choosing the right thing for the right situation. 30AWG magnet wire is a 'quality' cable for example if used in circumstances in which it would benefit the system's accuracy. |
Funny you should mention it because a pair of 18 guage magnet wires hanging in air (no sheath, all air dielectric save for the RCA connectors) are my favourite interconnects right now. Probably $5 a pair. For me it's not a 'sky opens up' change and near inaudible with some speakers but one consistent difference is the way the system reacts to RF. This open wire construction results is less noise from the tweeters (98 dB efficient) than twisted pair silver. Both require an ear to the tweeter to hear BTW. I can't grasp why and have to believe component interactions of this kind well above the audio band are responsible for some reported differences. |
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| poobah |
rdf,
Agreed... it would be a snowball in hell thing at best.
Tarcuper,
Baroque? Thank you! |
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| tarcuper |
There are some more sample cables, if anybody wants. Do not shy please, it costs absolutely nothing at all. You may leisurely ignore scepticism of poobah and alike, perhaps they are out of picture(sound:)
:) |
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| FastEddy |
... received in good condition by mail. ;)
Two sets received, two different "guages", enough for two complete, short 3 "wire" cable sets.
Planning to test as braided, balanced, 3 conductor with XLR cables:
* with and without shield
* with and without silver/copper wire as ground connection
For use as interconnect between pre-amp / mixer and amp and as microphone cable.
... Results to follow.
:smash: |
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| tarcuper |
| I wonder if you have probed the samples already? |
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| ticovski |
It took me some time but I had some things to do. here is what me and friend perceived from first listening of tarcupers carbon cable sample:
system was nothing fancy:
-Cd player Marantz CD 17
-amp is Marantz PM 17
-speakers are B&W P6
-he is using cardas twin link interconnects and speaker cables also cardas, crosslink speaker cable
That way system is enough balanced that it is not tiresome listening for many hours and can make me enjoy music.
First impression of 25 cm interconnects between cd and amp are:
-good balance
-details are there
-good control of bass
-carbon cable needs more power from amp for same listening volume comparing with cardas, but nothing to be worried in this system
-nothing falls apart when complex and loud music is played
-so far so good, we are pleased with this cable in this particular system
Thanks for sending me samples. |
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| Panicos K |
| tarcuper,can you post your e-mail to me please? |
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| Panicos K |
| tarcuper,I tried to e-mail you but keeps coming back.Can you contact me? |
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