| mantisory |
Hi there,
I am just wondering if anyone knows any good sources of information on hand winding MC step-up transformers...or would it not be worth my time to try it?
Mantisory |
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| phn |
Do you like the idea of winding 1-2 km magnetic wire 1/4 the size of a human hair 3000 turns on a three chamber bobbin with a few pct tolerance on a core made of a couple dozen paper-thin layers? At least that's how Telefunken used to do it. That's on the extreme end. Most are not made that way.
With good to great step-up transformer around for about $100, you probably have to want to make your own for it to make much sense. |
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| mantisory |
where do you find a| quote: | | good to great step-up transformer around for about $100 |
? most i've seen have been more in the 4-500$ range for a pair... |
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| phn |
There always seems to be some Peerless 4722 on eBay.
Haufe transformers turn up fairly regularly. T42 has a step-up ratio of 1:20, T41 1:10. My guess is that they come from old Klangfilm gear. They were used as input/balancing transformers.
All tend to bring around $100/pair. More if they are boxed or mounted.
I believe Shindo and Auditorium 23 source their transformers from Haufe. The legendary, and ridiculously high-price, Neumann BV-33 was probably sourced from Haufe as well. |
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| zix |
Mc transformers for less than 500 dollars? How about Lundahls? They have several different winding ratios available
LL1678 1+1+1+1 : 16+16 Moving coil input. Amorphous core. about 60$ each.
LL1681 1+1 : 13+13 Moving coil input. Mu metal core. about 85$/each.
LL9206 1+1+1+1 : 10+10 Moving coil input. Amorphous core. about 60$/each.
I will shortly be using the LL1578 (not the 1578XL, I don't know if the XL will work as an mc stepup trans). The 1578 is listed as a microphone input transformer, but can be used as an mc stepup too. 1:10 or 1:5 ratios is possible. I got lucky, was offered a non-RoHS pair for less money, didn't hesitate.
All of these are probably very good. Prices for these are in dollars as I found them on http://kandkaudio.com/. http://www.lundahl.se/ is the manufacturer web site.
Or how about the Sowters?
8055 Studio Phono 1:10, "fully balanced", about 57 pounds/each
9575 1:20 Low Z, about 49 pounds/each
9570 1:10 Low Z, about 49 pounds/each
9580 1:12.5 High Z. about 49 pounds/each
All of these are also probably very good. Prices for them are in Sterling Pounds as I found them on http://www.sowter.co.uk. |
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| mantisory |
hmmm...for some reason i thought the lundahls and sowters were much more - i guess i had the s&b's on the mind or something :)
thanks!
Mantisory |
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| phn |
I forgot the new stuff. I have never used anything but vintage transformers. I was going to mention Lundahl, but...
Jensen is another alternatives, and it's on your side of the pond. |
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| SY |
Jensen is a fine alternative. Their 1:10 stepup is (IIRC) about $80.
I've got a pair of 4722s myself. For the era, they're pretty good. But at least on paper, the modern stuff walks all over it. |
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| phn |
I wouldn't get the 4722 myself. But they are common in your part of the world.
I probably will try some of Lundahl's transformers. Like Haufe, they use amorphous core. |
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| enilsen |
I don't know if I’m barking up the wrong tree here, but I've seen microphone transformers with reasonably good specs starting at about $10 and up.
I can only assume the more you pay for a transformer, the better it should be but these low budget items have got me thinking they might be able to substitute the less expensive MC step-up items.
Would I be wasting my time if I was to go out and purchase a pair of CP8201 microphone transformers . |
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| mantisory |
actually i ended up getting a cinemag CMQEE-3440A...haven' tried it yet...hopefully in the next couple weeks.
mantisory |
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| tubee |
http://www.amplimo.nl/
Click on Signal transfo's
In Holland easy achievable ones. Sound? Best is Lundahl i assume. |
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| stokessd |
I've got a pair of Jensen MC step-ups in an extruded sescom case that I'm not using (I sold my turntable). I'd be willing to sell or trade them. they are the 44K-DX units (http://www.jensentransformers.com/datashts/44kdx.pdf) They are a 10:1 step-up for low impedance cartridges.
I've got some pictures of them in the case here:
http://casastokes.dyndns.org/photoa...dio%2FMC_Stepup
I have tied up the wires rather than cutting them, aside from the fraction of an inch used to solder the wires to the connectors, they are stock length.
They cost about $100 each new. Got anything to trade?
Sheldon |
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| enilsen |
| quote: | Originally posted by phn
[B]I'm not sure low-price mic transformers have good enough frequency response. I any event, step-up transformers need not be expensive.
The common Beyer mic transformers are probably the best budget step-up transformer out there. You can get pairs for under under €25 on eBay. http://cgi.ebay.com/Beyer-Dynamic-V...1QQcmdZViewItem
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Here's a interesting link (read) on the use of microphone transformers used as MC step-up transformers. Moving Coil step-up transformers |
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| KBK |
what about 1:1 to 1:2 loading of a 47k/~5mv unit? anyone ever tried it? Why? Yah never know till yas dunned it. Ie, I'll never rule it out unless I hear something that sounds definitive. Pun intended.
Might help those POS high inductance units finally sound OK for once. (It might be noticable at this point..that I'm a super low output MC fan, or rather, super low number of turns would be better way to say it) |
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| jvlake |
| What would be a good (ish) cheap step-up transformer for a ribbon microphone. I here these mic's are sometimes as low as .5 to an 1 ohm. Do you think a peerless 4722 could be bludgeoned in to use? |
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| bulgin |
Hi All
I have a Supex SDT 1000 'booster for MC cartridge'. Nicely made. Looks like some h/q Tiffany rca's at the back + earth terminal and in front an on/off saying "boost/off".
The device is nicely made with an alu faceplate and an outer fluted rubber jacket which one can slip off. The casework under the rubber is completely soldered closed and goldplated.
And the darn thing hums. Not seriously, but it's there. If the armlead is unclipped from the stepup's earth tag, it sounds like a wannabe Moto Guzzi. Fortunately I have other stepup devices.
@Sy: Nice new avatar, my man :D Could it be Brutus:cannotbe:
bulgin |
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| pengboon |
| How about the Denon AU-300LC? Anyone tried those? Esp on their own (Denon) MCs? |
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| Cobra2 |
The Jensen and Lundahl are much better trafos than the Denon.
Even on a DL-304
Arne K |
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| pengboon |
| I see... but from a performance/price standpoint, is the Denon a good deal? |
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| Cobra2 |
Not unless you get the Denon-trafo used / cheap...
Arne K |
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| pengboon |
| Thanks for the advice. I got (from a Japan business trip) the Denon at about USD80+ intending to use together with the DL103R. I believe that is quite cheap? I still have not opened the packing, so I can still pretty much sell it away. I will try to explore the Lundahl options... which should I be using? :) |
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| Cobra2 |
OK, you got the Denon cheap...
I cannot remember the Lundahl type, I use Jenssen, that I bought used, and glued into a small box. (I did not have any mounting-hardware).
Arne K |
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| pengboon |
I am considering using the Lundahl LL1636. Will that match well with Denon 103R and the "Analogue Addicts phono preamplifier 2006" edition (using opamps available from this site)? I didn;t do the MC part as I could not get the transistors readily.
thanks! |
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| Sarchi |
I believe you'd want a 1:10 for the 103 and a typical 47K MM stage. I have a DL103 and I've just ordered the LL9206's from K&K (kandkaudio.com). If you trust an "industry guy", Mike Elliott of Counterpoint fame has a comparison of several trafos, it starts about 5/6 of the way down this page. http://www.ariaaudio.com/PreampNews.html
He liked the Sowters the best. |
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| Pyre |
| quote: | Originally posted by Sarchi
I believe you'd want a 1:10 for the 103 and a typical 47K MM stage. I have a DL103 and I've just ordered the LL9206's from K&K (kandkaudio.com). If you trust an "industry guy", Mike Elliott of Counterpoint fame has a comparison of several trafos, it starts about 5/6 of the way down this page. http://www.ariaaudio.com/PreampNews.html
He liked the Sowters the best. |
When you purchased the LL9206's did you spring for the mounting boards or were you going to mount them to your own boards? Do you agree with Mike's review of the LL9206's
I was going to buy some altecs on ebay but got tired of getting out bid so I just ordered some LL9206's from K&K's today thanks to your link. Thanks! |
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| Sarchi |
YES...these things sound fabulous so far in my system. For the cost I think they're amazing. I don't think vintage trafos would hold a candle to the modern amorphous cores. I did go for the little boards, they're cleverly designed, but you may go blind soldering the jumpers for 20dB gain. They are tiny. :whazzat:
Also, to get rid of hum I had to tie the input and output RCA shields together, that's what Kevin suggested and it worked perfectly. A metal Hammond box takes care of the rest of the shielding. |
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| PTSOUNDLAB |
Hello,
does somebody tried CineMag CMQEE-3440A ? They have good reputation.
I want to know if it's a good choice for Grado Platinum Statement Wood Body or Denon DL103 or Audio Technica OC9 cartridges ?
Thanks
Pascal |
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| PTSOUNDLAB |
Thanks, but I try to have infos with Grado Platinum Statement Wood Body or Audio Technica OC9 cartridges.
I don't know which is better, CineMag or Denon AU300LC for the same price ?
I try to have shared experiences with other cartridges than DL103.
Regards
Pascal |
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| Andy Bartha |
| Why do you need a step up transformer for the Grado and the Audio Technica? They are both moving magnets with an output near 5mv. The 103 is moving coil with a low output of less than .5mv. You need to decide on a cartridge first and then decide if you need a step up transformer. Moving magnets do not need any kind of step up since they have plenty of output. |
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| PTSOUNDLAB |
Sorry Andy but :
Audio Technica OC9 = MC 0,4mV output
Grado Platinum Statement Wood Body = MC 0,5mV output
With these cartridges we need a prepre or mc transformer
Pascal |
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| RAYSIMMONS |
Andy,
You could call me sometime!:D |
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| Andy Bartha |
I stand corrected. I had forgotten that the OC9 is a moving coil with low output so you will need something to step up the voltage. The Grado Statement has an output of .75mv. This output is enough if you have high gain phono stage. I have no idea if it will work into step up transformer.
Something to play with while you are deciding which transformer to use that is dirt cheap and sounds good is a op amp. The njm 2122 is ultra quiet and you can set the gain to about 33dBs with a 100 ohm and 3.3k ohm resistor and two 9v batteries. The 2122 is very cheap and the resistors should as quiet as you can afford with whatever loading you need. You could set it up with a 8 pin dip switch. I've built several of these and they are shockingly good with high quality resistors. You can parallel two 9v batteries for longer baterry life. |
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| Pyre |
| I ended up going with the LL9206's in the end and think they sound amazing. I can not say that I have much to compare them to for transformers but I am happy with the purchase. They are in the shielded metal cases in the bottom corner. It took a lot of grounding but it operates without any hum or noise with a nice set of 5751's. I'm using a Sony XL mc1 MC cartridge. |
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| jlsem |
The Grado Statement is a moving iron cartridge with an output of .5mv.
John |
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| Toaster |
Sounds interesting Andy.
Literally just that, or do you use decoupling caps or any other additional bits? |
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| Andy Bartha |
| No output coupling caps just the loading resistors on the input. The two resistors to set up the gain you want and two caps across the batteries, very simple. This sounds as good as your parts. |
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| jlsem |
Never buy:
1. Cheap tires
2. Cheap food
3. Cheap audio transformers |
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| Toaster |
Thanks Andy.
I'll have to give that a try, although the NJM2122 doesn't seem to be available in the UK. Mouser have them but will not be getting any more. Digi-Key stocks them too.
I'm assuming the signal's going to the non-inverting input? |
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| pjanda1 |
| quote: | Originally posted by jlsem
Never buy:
1. Cheap tires
2. Cheap food
3. Cheap audio transformers |
1. I haven't had bad luck with cheap tires (though I avoid the really, really cheap.) They've all exceeded their milage ratings with no problems. My inlaws just had a belt slip on a cheap tire, though.
2. The best food in town is cheap: A Thai/Laotian place called "Asian House." Granted, the decor and ambience leave something to be desired (located in an old gas station with 20 year old everything), but the large portions of perfectly balanced, ultra fresh food annialate all but Corks Wine Bar and Grill. My most recent entree there was $42. Veracruz Mexican Bakery in Willmar, MN made the best Tacos I've ever eaten (easily eclipsing anything I found in Santa Fe, NM) for $1.50. Their flan was world class at $2 for a huge slice. Too bad I was practically their only customer or they'd still be in business.
3. I'm not looking to spend much more than $100 for a pair of step ups. Many folks in the same boat are buying vintage mic transformers on ebay. Plenty of folks used to scout for output trannies from consoles and r2r's, but there seems to be a growing consensus that one is better off purchasing the budget options from Hammond and Edcor. I may give the little guys a shot.
pj |
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| Pyre |
| I paid 65 bucks each for the LL9206's |
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| Andy Bartha |
| signal goes to the non inverting input |
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