| edjosh23 |
I've been apart of this hobby for a couple of years now and have been using cheap tools. I've been using a 45watt RS soldering iron and a $20 multimeter from Home Depot. I'm going to NC State next year for EE and as I'm building more and more things. I've had to buy multiple soldering irons and new tips all the time. Along with the the really high temp silver solder from RS and I figure its time to move up.
I've read the other threads about soldering stations and which people prefer. Most answers were any Hakko or a Weller WES51. My AP physics teacher along with BrianGT have recomended the WTCPT to me.
Multimeters... mine does very little, but it is so useful. Therefore, I would like a more accurate and more useful one. I think it is a good idea. Anyway, as a mechanic we kept a Fluke in the shop and a friend has a Fluke as well, but the Flukes are very expensive, so I was looking at this Extech 310
My overall budget is around $200, but I will splurge for something much better.
Also, I'd like to stop buying RS solder, the melting temp is very high and my desoldering iron can do its job only half the time. HMC Electronics sells lead-free solder. Which melting temp is good and which is best for these purposes?
Any suggestestions about these products,
Which is best for me?
Which I should or shouldn't buy?
What other products I should look at?
Thanks,
Josh |
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| edjosh23 |
Any recomendations?
Anyone just want to say hello?
Thanks,
Josh |
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| lndm |
Hi edjosh23,
You may be buying into the solder station at an opportune time. Lead free solder is on its way in and it takes more heat to melt. My solder station will get that hot but I don't like the idea of running it high all the time. New lead free solder stations are still a little high in price where I'm from, but these things don't tend to last. Or you could do as I did and bought a few pounds of conventional solder, for a rainy day :D |
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| edjosh23 |
lndm,
I was looking at lead-free solder like this . I have no clue what temp the RS lead-free silver solder melts at, but if the RS desoldering iron has trouble melting it, and 425degrees F doesn't look very high, I'm guessing the RS desoldering iron gets that hot.
Do you have any suggestions on what solder and equipment I should buy?
Thanks,
Josh |
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| EC8010 |
| quote: | Originally posted by lndm
Or you could do as I did and bought a few pounds of conventional solder, for a rainy day :D |
It's a strange thing, but every engineer I know has bought a lifetime supply of solder with lead in it...
PS The Extech meter looks like rubbish to me. I have a couple of Fluke 89mkIV that I bought for their accuracy. They also do true RMS, but that's very rarely useful for audio. I've occassionally used their logging function. Think carefully before you buy a meter. Basic accuracy costs and is probably worth paying for. Gimmicks aren't. To be honest, most of the time, you don't need accuracy. But you do need speed and dependability (not suddenly giving a funny answer because there's lots of AC on the DC, or vice versa). I don't reckon it's worth spending more than £20 on a meter unless you're getting a real meter. |
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| lndm |
I believe that tin/lead solder melts at 190C/374F, but I run my iron at 330C because at lower temperatures I'd need to hold the iron on the joint to melt it and meanwhile the heat spreads into the components.
This is a quote from a wave soldering tute. Just included it for interest.| quote: | www.indium.com
* Solder temperatures for Pb-free wave soldering is typically 260-275ºC (500-527ºF).
* The higher soldering temperatures of Pb-free alloys could damage components, warp the boards or stress solder mask and board finish.
* Tin pest can form in Sn/Cu alloys. |
Normal solder has a tin/lead mix of 60/40. One quality of this that is useful is that it goes from liquid to solid over a small range of temperature. If you've ever bumped a joint while it is 'drying' you'll know that it ruins the joint and it needs reheating. Any alloy that solidifies gradually may be more difficult to work with when hand soldering. |
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| edjosh23 |
Well, I do half a 1lb roll of "regular" solder, but I live about 5 minutes away from 2 Radio Shacks and I always buy lots of solder.
I'm less worried about the solder if the irons that I'm looking at go to about 800' . But its just desoldering, I'll try to desolder a joint and I end up pulling up PCB traces.
I don't believe I've actually damaged any components, sure it could happen, but if the melting temp of these lead-free solders are even lower, than thats good.
So do you think an iron that has variable temp that I can change by turning a knob is better than the WTCPT?
EC8010,
what do you consiver a real meter? I'm starting college in a couple weeks to become an EE and I'm sure the meter and iron will be used quite often, and since this is my hobby they are used all the time, so durability is important, and persionally if I'm going to spend money on something I want it to last and work well.
Thanks,
Josh |
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| EC8010 |
| quote: | Originally posted by lndm
I believe that tin/lead solder melts at 190C/374F, but I run my iron at 330C because at lower temperatures I'd need to hold the iron on the joint to melt it |
That suggests that you're using a tip that is too small and that has a sufficiently small thermal mass that it can be appreciably cooled by the joint. Use a tip that matches the joint...
I've used a Weller TCP for twenty years. No6 tips. |
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| lndm |
| quote: | Originally posted by edjosh23
if the melting temp of these lead-free solders are even lower, than thats good. |
I don't think they are.
| quote: | Originally posted by EC8010
Use a tip that matches the joint... |
I use a 0.5mm tip on mostly point to point. I have a preference for quick melting (right or wrong), but I'll take your word for it and try something larger, tips are cheap. Ta. |
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| EC8010 |
| PTP generally needs a 2mm wide tip, or 3mm wide if it's older stuff. I keep a selection of tips and change them for each joint if necessary. It makes all the difference in the world to have the right tip. But you're right to want it to melt quickly. If it doesn't melt quickly you're risking adjacent components. |
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| mike.m216 |
| Lead free solders are not easy to get good joints with. It takes more heat, and doesn't flow too well. Stick with leaded solder. |
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| jackinnj |
fwiw, I use a Weller that my grandmother gave me as a gift when I got my ham radio license in 1966 -- my kids gave me a new body for the dang thing when it finally succombed to falling off a 18 foot ladder -- i have probably used it every day for 40+ years.
in the new and modern era i would suggest a Weller soldering pencil. the lead free solder -- fuggheddaboutttit -- while you can -- i don't think the industry has remotely investigated the disaster that this will become in a couple of years with respect to reliability. one car battery disposed improperly by some bozo in West Virginia has more of a deleterious environmental impact than three or four thousand CD players with lead solder.
DVM's? You can get a HP 3468 or 3478 which were kilobuck devices in the 1980's for a pittance -- buy from a reputable EBayer. I have both as well as an NIST traceable DVM and the 3468 and 3478 are well within the parameters of the lab instrument. The Triplett and Simpson analog meters are wonderful and built this country from sea to shining sea (as did Heathkit and Eico). In spite of what has been said, I have an Extech photometer and it compares quite favorably (doesn't mean better) than my Tektronix and Texas Instruments devices (yes, TI did make photometers!)
having some tears will make you a better engineer. |
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| BWRX |
For a good performing soldering station at a great price check this out:
http://www.circuitspecialists.com/prod.itml/icOid/7508
I have used the unit in the link above just about every other week for the past year (mainly for surface mount soldering) and the tip is still like new. The ceramic element heats up quickly and is still going strong too. I use Weller and Hakko irons at work and think the CSI station 2A is every bit as good (maybe slightly worse with heat recovery) as those. Whatever you get, be sure to keep the tip nice and clean and you'll have reliable operation for years. |
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| edjosh23 |
BWRX,
I've been following your threads about your new class D amps and see that your solder smd quite well. I won't be using smd nearly that much. That iron looks quite nice and I like the idea of hot tweezers as well. The price looks good as well, but I have never heard of the company.
BrianGT and I talked today about irons and I think I'm not leaning towards the Weller WESD51.
I found this DMM on ebay and it looks great, but I'm confused about the japanese packaging. Has anyone heard of this Fluke 17B ? It looks great, but I'm unsure if the DMM itself is in english. I wrote to the seller, but I may not get an answer back anytime soon.
Thanks,
Josh |
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| TeeDee |
Josh,
I can tell you that a variable temp station is very nice to have the best control. I personlly have been impressed with the selection of weller solder stations here at all-spec. I actually have been trying to get feedback from this forum on the differences between the weller wes51 and the weller wesd51 both are variable temp.
Also, as one of the posters mentioned, lead free solder is starting to come back because of RoHS standards over seas. I have been making the transition over!!
you need to check out all-specs kester lead free solder |
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| loek |
For the new lead free solder you need a number 8 tip with this TCP station is my experience.
good luck, Loek |
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| edjosh23 |
Well I got a couple emails back from ebay sellers about the Fluke 17B. They said that the unit itself was in english, so I bought one. The shipping was more than the unit itself, but the unit itself was $55. The seller should be emailing me soon about how long it will be for the unit to get here, it is in Hong Kong, but my other experiences with recieving packages from Hong Kong have been very good.
So I guess now its about the iron. If anyone has any more suggestions please tell me.
Thanks,
Josh |
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| 4fun |
| quote: | Originally posted by EC8010
I've used a Weller TCP for twenty years. No6 tips. |
I have been using weller tcp (that macnetic cuire thing) for many years in work as audio/video repairman. My colleges back then did think I was wrong using No6 tips because the low temperature. But I think they were wrong, to high temperature causes oxidation and with right knowledge it was possible to transfer the right amount of heat with that low tip temperature.
Today i use a more flexible weller wich electronic temperature regulation, but soldering with rather low tip temperature is still a confession.
Weller does very good soldering tools and have good supply of spare parts. |
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| edjosh23 |
4fun,
You said your new iron has "electronic temperature regulation", does that mean you have the wesd51 ? How does your new iron compare to the WTCPT?
Thanks,
Josh |
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| BWRX |
| quote: | Originally posted by edjosh23
I've been following your threads about your new class D amps and see that your solder smd quite well. I won't be using smd nearly that much. That iron looks quite nice and I like the idea of hot tweezers as well. The price looks good as well, but I have never heard of the company. |
Thanks for the compliment! I take pride in my soldering work. Some guys at work say my soldering is better than a reflow machine ;)
The station I linked to will work just as well with through hole components as it will with SMDs. It's all about getting the right tip and using it at the right temp.
I was going to get the hot tweezers but have held off so I can divert funds to other projects. The price is very good for what you get. You don't have to get a name brand station to get good quality. |
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| poobah |
If you want to buy your last soldering iron first, get a Metcal SP200 and call it done. Ebay it... $80 - 120. Then buy tips.
For your first real meter, get a fluke portable... like a Fluke 80, 83, 87.
For your second meter get a bench model and spend the $$ HP34401A's are good ($1200+) Older HP like Jackinnj mentions are good too.
;) |
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| burnedfingers |
Poobah
You forgot to mention something here......
A wife that will buy those tools. |
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| poobah |
You can always get another wife...
:smash: |
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| EC8010 |
| My ex-wife bought me a DVM in 1989 and I still occasionally use it so it's outlasted her by a good few years. Lower maintenance too. |
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| loek |
Indeed, when you use tip 7 and inspect the soldering with a microscope you clearly can see the oxidation , not the case with a tip no 6...
Greetings, Loek |
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| 4fun |
| quote: | Originally posted by edjosh23
4fun,
You said your new iron has "electronic temperature regulation", does that mean you have the wesd51 ? How does your new iron compare to the WTCPT?
Thanks,
Josh |
That's too new :-) my gear today is WECP-20, electronic control with connection for esd protection.
Comparison, hmm.
Reliability is much improved with electronic control. The mechanical thermostatic switch could get stuck on old WTCP. Another obvious advantage over old WTCP is choice of tip temperature over a wide range. |
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