| Apex Jr |
Hi Guys...
I've just been hit with a trademark infrindgement letter
stating I can't use the word Teflon on my website.(Wire)
They tell me since I'm not buying from them and do not
have a license they have asked me to remove the name from my website. The wire is a good seller for me and
my prices are lower than anyone, so I'm kind of wondering
if there's any other key words or idea's on how I can promote
this without the word being used.
I've asked to get a license or if I use the word and put that
R under the name or use a phase to state that the trademark is there's but to no avail:mad: This along with the RoHs stuff
is making it very hard to stay in business...
Any Idea's
Steve @ Apex Jr. |
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| Zen Mod |
If I remember correctly-they made Teflon for Space Shuttle?
you can use that link....'special plastic thingie for eggs baking and Space Shuttle" |
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| SY |
| "PTFE" is the generic term. |
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| gmikol |
Steve--
Is DuPont the manufacturer of the coating that's on your wire? If not, I can understand their position. It dilutes their trademark to have any type of polymer fluorocarbon referred to as Teflon. (see Xerox, Kleenex, etc.)
I know it's not perfect, but what about using the generic term for teflon, PTFE? And referring to it on your webside as "PTFE Silver Plated Copper Wire" instead of "Teflon Silver Plated Copper Wire". Then have the PTFE part be a symlink to Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PTFE
At least it's a start.
--Greg
EDIT: Ack...Sy beat me to it. |
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| dr.strangelove3 |
Teflon is the brand name of PTFE by DuPont...
But not many people search on PTFE... |
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| Aengus |
What if you described it as "PTFE Silver Plated Copper Wire" and had a note that read "Teflon(R) is Dupont's Registered Trademark for PTFE - the wire I sell does NOT use Dupont's Teflon(R)". Don't see how the lawyers could argue against that, but anyone Googling "teflon wire" should get your site.
While I sympathize to a reasonably large extent with attempts to protect intellectual property - since I sometimes create it - I also object to the imperialism of lawyers who are trying to colonize the language and fence it off from us aboriginal users :-). |
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| EC8010 |
| quote: | Originally posted by dr.strangelove3
But not many people search on PTFE... |
You're absolutely right, I find it much easier to just call it polytetrafluoroethylene. :D |
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| Apex Jr |
Thanks Guys....
You have given me a good idea and will implement it
with the link, great idea..... PTFE
5 heads are better than 1
Thanks for the help
Steve @ Apex Jr. |
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| KBK |
Look at the date of the original trademark and patent registration. It may have run it's course. At that point....pardon my legal ignorance..but it may be a moot issue.
Also, the generic thingie. Kleenex, ski-doo, Xerox, etc. Teflon is likely now generic. Like 'Cola'. Dupont is simply being ..uh..***.
I WANT my product to become part of the backdrop of life. It's like a licence to print money. Wait.... the Fed does that already.
Oh, yes. If you know the original maufacturer of the wire you are selling, look up if it is an actual Teflon brand based Dielectric. If it is, then you have the right to call it what it is. Then you can grab the Dupont Lawyer by his $3 tie, haul him arcoss his desk,and tell him to take a long hard suck on your backside. |
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| I_Forgot |
There is an "old" search engine trick to get people searching for your competitors to see a link to your site. Lets say you are McDonalds. You put "Burger King" in the key words list on your site so that any time someone searches for "Burger King", they see your site, along with all the Burger King sites.
You can do the same with the phrase "teflon wire". Put it in the key words for your PTFE coated wire page. When someone searches for "teflon wire" they will still see your page even though the word does not appear anywhere on the visible page.
I_F |
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| Geek |
Doesn't work that way. I've battled (and won!) against people like Nameprotect, who search for hidden tags and words.
You CAN say, "PTFE coated wire. PTFE is better known as "Teflon" ".
With a (c) to DuPont regarding Teflon.
Double check your laws. |
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| EchoWars |
| quote: | Originally posted by KBK
Then you can grab the Dupont Lawyer by his $3 tie, haul him arcoss his desk,and tell him to take a long hard suck on your backside. |
/me...now cleaning the Diet Coke from my keyboard and monitor after I read that...
:D |
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| KBK |
Hey, I write that stuff -- just for those beautiful moments. Glad to see I haven't lost my touch.
but I will say it is stolen without shame, from the MacLean & MacLean (brothers) Canadian comedy album, "MacLean & MacLean Suck Their Way To The Top."
Side two, of this gloriously erudite masterpiece was a different album, called "MacLean & MacLean Take the 'o' out of Country."
Not for the timid of, er, language. Foul, that is.
http://www.macleanandmaclean.com/ |
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| classd4sure |
Do you really think Dupont would let the patent on Teflawn laps?? I find that unlikely.
Hmmmmm.... it really seems like their lawyers ought to have better things to do:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teflon
"The EPA's scientific advisory board found in 2005 that perfluorooctanoic acid (PFOA), a chemical compound used to make Teflon, is a "likely carcinogen." This finding was part of a draft report[4] that has yet to be made final. DuPont settled for $300 million in a 2004 lawsuit filed by residents near its manufacturing plant in Ohio and West Virginia based on groundwater pollution from this chemical. Currently this chemical is not regulated by the EPA.
In January 2006, DuPont, the only company that manufactures PFOA in the US, has agreed to eliminate releases of the chemical from its manufacturing plants by 2015, but did not commit to completely phasing out its use of the chemical. This agreement is said to apply to not only Teflon used in cookware but in other products such as food packaging, clothing and carpeting. DuPont also stated that it cannot produce Teflon without the use of the chemical PFOA, although it is looking for a substitute."
http://www.chebucto.ns.ca/Health/Ns...ncancerrisk.htm
You'll love this one too:
http://www.2spi.com/catalog/chem/teflon_ptfe.html
Just imagine if microshaft started saying "hey.. you can't use windows...", hang on, they did try that.
Whatever, ask them if it's ok to say :
"Our wire uses PTFE, associated with Dupont's Teflon, found polluting your water supply, poisoning you through your cookware since before you were born, clothes, carpet, oceans, and generally polluting the world over through mass chemical spills with various cancer causing agents, or directly through your food supply. Why do we use it? Simply, it's the best." |
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| SY |
| quote: | | Do you really think Dupont would let the patent on Teflawn laps?? I find that unlikely. |
Not only likely, but it is true. Patents are good for a fixed term (17 or 20 years, depending on era and jurisdiction), and cannot be renewed. The trademark Teflon is a different matter. One can make a cola drink, but cannot call it "Coke" or use the "Coke" tradename to promote it. |
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| classd4sure |
| They "can't" be renewed after 20? No kidding. So if you patent something you've got twenty years to make your fortune on it... or the industry can just hinder you for twenty years and then reinvent it.... Q# %(*%^!#(!@#$ |
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| ErikdeBest |
| quote: | | One can make a cola drink, but cannot call it "Coke" or use the "Coke" tradename to promote it. |
Actually the true coca cola formula has never been patented, just because this 20 year expiration period. If coca cola had been patented when invented, we would all know the formula by now!
Erik |
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| SY |
| quote: | Originally posted by classd4sure
They "can't" be renewed after 20? No kidding. So if you patent something you've got twenty years to make your fortune on it... or the industry can just hinder you for twenty years and then reinvent it.... Q# %(*%^!#(!@#$ |
Pretty much, yeah. The European system is particularly rigged against individual inventors and small companies.
But, to be fair, the scenario you outline is unlikely and rare. You've got a 20 year monopoly on your idea in exchange for revealing it. |
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| jackinnj |
| Irv Shapiro took the helm of DuPont in the early 1970's -- and he was a lawyer -- |
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| classd4sure |
| I dont' know how credible it is, probably not very, but last week I was reading how once upon a time hemp was extremely wide use for all kinds of products. Dupont had a big hand in ensuring the dawn of the "war against drugs" in order to ensure it got demonized and done away with. Thereby ensuring a very wide market for all their synthetics. |
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| jackinnj |
| quote: | Originally posted by SY
Pretty much, yeah. The European system is particularly rigged against individual inventors and small companies.
But, to be fair, the scenario you outline is unlikely and rare. You've got a 20 year monopoly on your idea in exchange for revealing it. |
NJ and Michigan are also rigged against individual inventors and small companies -- the tax code is anti-entrepeneur -- so people start up elsewhere. All of the job growth in NJ over the past 6 years has been in the public sector -- no private sector job growth in 6 years. Over 45,000 public sector jobs and an equal loss in the private sector.
In Michigan so many companies have moved out that they changed the law regarding property taxes so that municipalities have a super-priority claim on a firm's assets. People were driving up to their factories in a bunch of Freightliners and moving stuff out in the dead of night ...Michigan is still in love with the auto companies and the tax laws are advantageous to Ford, GM and Chrysler with their huge legacy problems, but make it impossible to be a global competitor. |
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| phn |
The "Coke formula" is a gimmick. People who buy Coke buy an image. There's no greater symbol of America and the "American Way" than Coke. I cannot imagine anything lamer than Pepsi--It's Almost Coke. :rolleyes:
SY is right. The keyword here is Trademark. The early Mickey Mouse(TM) comic strips are in the public domain. You can reprint them without paying money to Disney(TM), but you cannot use the Mickey Mouse(TM) name. Of course, Disney(TM) will turn your life into a living hell until you cease publish them.
I guess authors should start trademark the names of their novels and characters in them. 70 yrs from now, the novels will be in the public domain, but not the titles and character names. |
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| SY |
| quote: | Originally posted by jackinnj
Irv Shapiro took the helm of DuPont in the early 1970's -- and he was a lawyer -- |
Irish fellow? |
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| jackinnj |
no, he was a member of the tribe.
interesting for DD -- the company was founded by French Hugenots -- came to the US in 1805 or thereabouts -- I am sure that there was some grave-spinnin' when Irv was named to the post. He lead the company through some really challenging times in the 70's -- and there were some real head-to-head battles with their suppliers.
DD's research is prodigious and screwed up at the same time. |
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| KBK |
The trick for patents, is to apply for and have your patent approved, but the patent leaves out very critical and pertinent bits, where the invention cannot be propelry executed from the supplied information. This creates a seperate and difficult point that most cannot pass, when it comes to voilating your patent in places that tend to not honour things like patents.
When the patent is about to expire, add the pertinent bits back in, or some of them....and renew it.
This process, will take some thought to complete properly. The pertinent bits, for example have to be somethig that people will simply never figure out, as they could potentially step by or around your patent via this method. You might have to think for an extra year or two, before applying for your 'limited' patent. |
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| rdf |
| quote: | | They "can't" be renewed after 20? No kidding. So if you patent something you've got twenty years to make your fortune on it... or the industry can just hinder you for twenty years and then reinvent it.... Q# %(*%^!#(!@#$ |
The industry can hinder you for 20 years with patent attacks. May the biggest legal budget win. Two sides to every coin.
| quote: | | You've got a 20 year monopoly on your idea in exchange for revealing it. |
Ding ding! The original intent of the patent system as I understand it is to spur innovation for the benefit of society. The whole point of a limited term monopoly is that the knowledge (nearly always built on the prior work of others) becomes avaliable for the benefit of all. The notion that ideas are 'property' in the physical sense owned by individuals or corporations is a relatively recent abstraction. |
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| SY |
| quote: | Originally posted by KBK
The trick for patents, is to apply for and have your patent approved, but the patent leaves out very critical and pertinent bits, where the invention cannot be propelry executed from the supplied information. ...
When the patent is about to expire, add the pertinent bits back in, or some of them....and renew it.
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The first part is grounds for invalidation of the patent. Really, really bad idea. You are OBLIGED to reveal completely the best practice at the time of filing ("preferred embodiment") and the patent must contain sufficient information that someone in your field can follow it and build the invention. If you don't do that, the patent is not enforceable.
The second part refers to a renewal process which does not exist in the patent system. When your 17 or 20 years is up, it's up. |
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| classd4sure |
| quote: | | Ding ding! The original intent of the patent system as I understand it is to spur innovation for the benefit of society. The whole point of a limited term monopoly is that the knowledge (nearly always built on the prior work of others) becomes avaliable for the benefit of all. The notion that ideas are 'property' in the physical sense owned by individuals or corporations is a relatively recent abstraction. |
This is also my understanding of it |
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| rdf |
| Sorry classd4sure, I sometimes have this unfortunate patent 'tick', a mild form IP Tourettes. :) |
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| classd4sure |
| Don't we all.. |
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