| Rino odorico |
Hey all, well I have been in the basement reading all about how tubes work...still need to learn more :>) Currently I'm restoring a console type amp with EL84's. But I think I'm almost at the point of building one...or two :>)
My question is, I have a box full of Luxman EL34's (never used and still in boxes) as well as a box full of ECC83's (never used). I feel I should be doing something with these. Anyone know of a good design to build? Nothing large, just a simple but awsome sounding amp to drive a pair of 2-way bookshielfs, DIY of corse.
Man are tubes fun!
Rino Odorico |
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| SY |
| It's not the tubes which will determine the direction of a design, it's the iron. What kind of OP transformers do you have access to? |
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| Joel |
| EL34's? You could build some version of a Dynaco ST-70. |
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| Rino odorico |
As far as what trans. I would use, well I don't own any at the moment. But...I live in South Western Ontario so Hamond Trans. would be very easy to get. Actually, my parents live in the same town they are produced.:bigeyes:
How about a OTL type of amp...good/bad?
Rino Odorico |
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| fdegrove |
Hi,
In case you want to put your tubes to good use:
The CR syblos are there to indicate NFB loops of which there 3 local ones and 1 global.
As far as the PSU goes you could use a tubed or one using silicon diodes.
I'll mail the daigrams with examples to Dave since I can't seem to attach a file.
Cheers,;) |
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| SY |
OTL with EL34s? Naah. Bad choice.
Keep it simple. Get a 6600 ohm p-p OP anchor, use a simple input circuit (like a triode voltage amp direct coupled to a long-tail inverter- the Eico HF87 circuit is a classic), use a simple power supply. I'd avoid the silicone that Frank suggests- it's too jiggly. But silicon rectifiers will work.
Joe Curcio's ST-70 circuit is a good one, too. I used his input stage and regulator to drive '34s wired as triodes with good success. |
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| dhaen |
| quote: | | How about a OTL type of amp...good/bad? |
Not with EL34's. Even in triode mode, they're quite high impedance.
Buy some nice Iron, and enjoy. |
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| fdegrove |
Sy,
| quote: | | I'd avoid the silicone that Frank suggests- it's too jiggly. But silicon rectifiers will work. |
That was your typical example of a Freudian slip.
Rino:
The two diagrams are sent off to Dave.
You'll need UL OPT for these to work as per the diagram but that shouldn't be a problem.
Cheers,;) |
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| planet10 |
| quote: | Originally posted by fdegrove
I'll mail the daigrams with examples to Dave since I can't seem to attach a file. |
Frank, as requested -- being an IT guy i'd have thot not being able to attach pics would have frustrated you enuff to figure out what's wrong with your Windoz box (hey that might be the diagnosis right there -- sorry couldn't resist :D )
dave |
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| planet10 |
Guess it would help if i actually attached the pic.
dave |
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| fdegrove |
Hi Dave,
Guess it was an open door.;)
I'm pretty sure it's the firewal in the router acting up on me.
Since that sits with Siemens I'll have to ask them for a dedicated port.
You know these guys,they're paranoid as hell.:rolleyes:
Thanks for posting the piccies,:cool: |
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| planet10 |
And the other one. I think Frank intended on sending a power supply but this is another example of PP EL34.
dave |
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| planet10 |
Now both those circuits have too many ECC83s in them for my taste (i know you have new ECC83s -- what kind, on eBay they may fetch enuff to pay for the iron -- especially if they have little diamonds on the bottom).
Here is what i'm going to base my Dyna ST70 on:
this schema and a couple accompanying ones (and a picture) can be found at the http://www.vacuumstate.com/schematics.htm]Vacuum State[/URL] web site (you will have to scroll down a bit.
dave |
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| SY |
| "Boucles de contre-rčaction" sounds sooooo much more romantic than "feedback loops. |
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| fdegrove |
Hi,
| quote: | | And the other one. I think Frank intended on sending a power supply but this is another example of PP EL34. |
Correct,only I didn't want to chop of the circuit part since it may be usefull to others.
Naturally it will need some mods to work with the first circuit and I'd put some bigger caps behind the chokes.
This one circuit that benefit from the brute force approach especially when crossing to Class B operation.
Sy,| quote: | | "Boucles de contre-rčaction" sounds sooooo much more romantic than "feedback loops. |
Charmant,no?;)
All,
If anyone needs a translation of the french text under that first circuit I'll be happy to do it.
Cherio,:cool: |
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| Rino odorico |
Wow, thanks guys! And the circuits don't look that bad to build! Now, just to choose which one to do...
As far as the tubes...been a while since I looked. From what I can remember about the ECC83's, they are not "Matched" or in any order. Darn can't remember what make. Put it to ya this way, I have approx 20 of them. They actually can from Luxman Canada's service depo.
The EL34's approx. 15-20. I know that those are not in matched pairs. What make are they, well they say Luxman directly on them...so who ever they used back then.
Frank, never seen anything like that pre-stage before...4 tubes?
Rino Odorico |
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| SY |
| Ah, Frank, I wouldn't have guessed that you are a Walloon. And even if a Flem speaks French, he won't admit it. |
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| fdegrove |
Hi Rino,
| quote: | | Frank, never seen anything like that pre-stage before...4 tubes? |
Actually what you see are just two 12AX7As',each contains two triodes that should be matched already internally.
The diagram you see is very well thought out and is known to be able to drive even difficult loads with ease.
The EL34s' should be matched for optimum performance.
Maybe ask a dealer to do that for you against a nominal fee?
Yur Lux tubes are likely to be Japanese jobs built by Matushita,NEC or Toshiba depending on age.
Sy,
Mon ami,you izz wrong in yourrrr assumption.
Je suis Flemish,and proud of it.
| quote: | | And even if a Flem speaks French, he won't admit it |
Fact is most Flems do speak French whereas very little Wallons speak Flemish.
Put a Wallon and a Flemish guy together and within a second or two they'll speak in french to each other,never,never the other way around.:D
Cheers, |
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| tiroth |
| Thanks for the schematics guys! |
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| Rino odorico |
Great, should have known...as per the reading I have been doing..."some triodes will actually be doubled internaly" or something like that (can't remember the words perfectly, but I get the jist).
Looks like a great starter amp Frank. Hate to bother you about it, but when I print it...can't really read it very well. Could you if possible (please) e-mail it to me? Now here's the topper...and anything else you have on it?
rodorico@ca.telus.com:D :D :bigeyes: :bigeyes: :xeye: |
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| planet10 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Rino odorico
Hate to bother you about it, but when I print it...can't really read it very well. Could you if possible (please) e-mail it to me? |
I'm pretty sure Frank just snagged these off the net (i've seen them both before), if so what you see is what you get. URLs to those sites would probably be more useful.
dave |
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| planet10 |
| quote: | Originally posted by fdegrove
The EL34s' should be matched for optimum performance.
Maybe ask a dealer to do that for you against a nominal fee? |
Bill Perkins (PEARL in Calgary) does this, usually as part of his cryo regime.
dave |
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| fdegrove |
Rino,
If I send you the same stuff it's not going to solve the printing problem.
Try to open them in a graphics program and split the pic into 2 or more sections.
Save the separate parts,enlarge them so you can read all that's on it and when printing those enlarged parts make sure your printer is set to "fit to page".
That should solve it.
Cheers,;) |
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| fdegrove |
Dave,
On this occasion you put them up here so they're local.
I usually have to resort to urls since I have this problem uploading anything from my local disk.
The site is protected against mirroring so no luck there and printing from it won't solve the clarity problem either.
Just for info,;) |
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| Rino odorico |
Cool, thanks Frank.
Can't wait to try some of this out. I can see it now...a mad scientist in the making...mmwaahhh, ah hahaha (tyring to type in my best scary voice)
Rino Odorico |
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| planet10 |
| quote: | Originally posted by fdegrove
On this occasion you put them up here so they're local. |
It is a little trickier to get them, but i just drag them out of the browser on to my desktop (it may be trickier under windows), change the *.php to *.jpg or &*.gif and open it in PhotoShop (or graphic converter or back in my browser).
The ones i posted have also been cleaned up a bit (they are actually gifs) from what Frank sent.
dave |
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| fdegrove |
Hey,
Anything a Mac can a window can too.:D
Works in Windoz too thanks to Mickeysoft.
Sorry Dave 1-1?
Cheers,:cool: |
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| Rino odorico |
| Oh great, now look at what I've started! |
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| dhaen |
| quote: | | Oh great, now look at what I've started! |
2 grown men boasting about their gui's! |
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| fdegrove |
Rino,
Dave knows where I'm coming from so don't loose sleep over the little games here.
BTW is the power of a single PP pair enough for you?
Cherio,
John,
| quote: | | 2 grown men boasting about their gui's! |
Better that than boasting about.....:D |
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| Rino odorico |
Hey Frank,
Hum, 2 PP El34's...is that enough power? I would have to say yes, unless you have something up your sleave. Now the question (as I sip on my morning coffee) is, should I even ask...yes I should.
Ok Frank, I'll ask...why, what do you have in mind?
Rino Odorico
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| fdegrove |
Hi,
Well, I was thinking about a multiple PP of El34s but we better forget about it.
When I think I run a pair of self-made bookshelf speakers with a set of 2A3s PSE putting out a couple of Watts to more than satisfying levels....
No,I thought also that you could add a volumecontrol at the input
with a bypass connection straight in.
So for CD you could connect to that and for sources requiring a preamp you could then use the direct connection.
After all it is easier and less costly to drive speaker cable of some length than to use long interconnects.
Cheers,;) |
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| jam |
Dave,
Please keep us informed on your vacuum-state EL-34 project. I gathered the parts to build one but got distracted. Have you heard a built unit? It looks like it could be something special.
Jam |
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| fdegrove |
Hi,
Not much is missing really.
Add the CCS and you're there.After all it would work without it or have I missed out on something?
Cherio,;) |
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| planet10 |
| quote: | Originally posted by jam
Have you heard a built unit? It looks like it could be something special.
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I haven't heard one, Dice45 has heard one that would be close. I have a number of other amps that are also candidates for this treatment. The 1st one out the gate will probably be a Scott LK48 with EL84s.
dave |
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| fdegrove |
Hi,
A ccs treated EL84?
Sound like breakfast in bed to me.
Of the small power tubes I must say I prefer the EL84 over a lot of them till you hear the EL86.
Shear magic...
Ciao, ;) |
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| planet10 |
| quote: | Originally posted by fdegrove
Sound like breakfast in bed to me. |
I'm hoping so. If the 1st one works out, i have Dyna iron for a set of monoblocs.
| quote: | | Of the small power tubes I must say I prefer the EL84 over a lot of them till you hear the EL86. |
I haven't run across this one yet... have you heard the SV83?
dave |
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| fdegrove |
Hello,
| quote: | | I haven't run across this one yet... have you heard the SV83? |
Yes I have toyed with that one.
It isn't bad at all but i still prefer the NOS E84L/7320 made by Siemens.
The russian E84LM,the military one,is excellent as well if you want a bit more top end and speed.
The EL86/6CW5 requires a different OPT but can really sound impressive.
An excellent noval power tube.
Ciao, ;) |
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| planet10 |
| quote: | Originally posted by fdegrove
The EL86/6CW5 requires a different OPT but can really sound impressive.
An excellent noval power tube. |
Got any "maps" in your collection? From what i could quickly gather this would use an OPT in the same general impedance range as a 2A3?
dave |
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