| FE206ES-R, first impressions - Click HERE for Original Thread |
| validator |
Hi,
today I got a chance to test my Fostex FE206ES-R. I didn't had the time to build the recommended horn enlosure so I un-screwed my Hemp FR8.0 and used my 2 cu.ft reflex cab. I used a 8.2 ohm series resistor to get him reflex-friendly ;)
First impression: good bass (45Hz), very detailed midrange, clear high range. A quick plot shows 92dB up to 2000Hz with a 4dB rise to the top end (even with the 8.2 ohms resistor!).
A very nice driver to play with ......
Regards
Thorsten |
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| DocLorren |
Thorsten,
Thanks for these preliminary impressions, I just received the drivers from you and would like to thank you for organizing the availability of these drivers in Europe. When do you plan to build the recommended enclosures? Contemplating other cabinets as well? |
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| validator |
Hi,
the recommended horn will take some time. We have a DIY fair in November and I have to develop some kits with other drivers. Maybe Fostex Germany will build the horn for the fair.
I'm sure there will be other users here in the forum who will build it?!
Regards
Thorsten |
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| DocLorren |
In the end I will, for sure. Maybe even before the November fair.
I think so far, only No Xo is close to finishing his cabinets.
Considering the highly praised FE206 in the regular BLH enclosure, I'm sure the ES-R will deliver something special. |
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| Scottmoose |
I'm going to cry now.:bawling:
Glad you like them though. |
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| DocLorren |
Scottmoose,
Just drop by to have a listen once they're finished. |
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| Jacobus |
I'm very curious how it compares to the normal 206 and to the dx serie from lowther. I was thinking of using the fe206 but if the special edition is a big step up than I might consider that one instead.
cheers,
Jacob |
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| blumenco |
I have not broken them in very much, but the sound is a wholly different beast than the normal 206e.
like the 166 es-r, It is way chiller. I think that for me, super tweeter will be unnecessary though, whereas I have been debating a super tweeter with the 166ES-r off and on for some time now. my final decision is to not use one, and live with the softness.
I am pretty sure that the radial cone making really is playing a part here. they were able to tune out the hard resonances in the upper range from the cone and whizzer I am guessing. it is immediately audible. the result is buttloads of evenness across the spectrum. there is very little dynamic masking going on as well.
they just sound good too. very fun. kindof heavenly. definitely meant for super clean low powered triodes.
by the way, and it sortof goes without saying, the magnets are beautiful!!!
the cast frame is a big step up for me as well. the 166 es-r really deserved one. on the 166, I am still struggling with ideas and solutions on getting the things sealed and properly secured to cabinets.
having used the 166 es-rs for a year now, I can say that they have broken in unexpectedly well and slowly. they went through many stages, and have ended up becoming well endowed with beautiful tone over this last year. break in is not as dramatic as some of the other fostex drivers, because they actually sounded good out of the box. but they have a very subtle character. this character has become more and more definite and easy for the ear to attach to over the year.
the 206es-r is very very dynamic. they just disappear as well. it sounds like no noise comes from the cone. just music surrounding it. very errie. compression driver esque. I imagine many transformations into a very nice character for these drivers.
I have been using mine in small sealed cabinets for a few weeks. I cannot wait to let them fly in the reccommended enclosure. 101db here we come!
my opinion though about the drivers is that they are a steal. they sound wholly different from te normal version in almost all good ways. I found myself able to sit very close to them with no fatigue set in by shoutyness that the 206e demonstrates.
don't get me wrong though, i love the 206 E, i have a pair. they are their own thing. the 206es-r is another.
I compare it to the 166es-r only because this seems to be the second driver in a new "sound" for fostex. I think that they received alot of flack about the banana plant fibre sound over the past 6 or so years and they are wanting to redeem themselves with a less harsh sound. they are wanting to show what the banana plant is capable of.
thing is about the banana plant fibre stuff is that it ends up sounding great, it just takes FOREVER! a few years really. the difference is not subtle though. course, i am sure you all know this stuff. hope my humble opinion serves well.
I know I am quite a fanboy here, but these things really are very special I feel.
Clark |
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| xcortes |
| Do they give 101 dB in the recommended blh enclosure? |
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| planet10 |
| quote: | Originally posted by xcortes
Do they give 101 dB in the recommended blh enclosure? |
If the back-horn is properly done will only lift the bottom (so ~ <250 Hz) efficiency will still be the same as in the midband, which by Fostex spec is 98 dB.
dave |
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| xcortes |
Thanks Dave. That's what I thought but bluemenco's post says 101 dB.
BTW. Any plans on offering phase plugs for these babes?
xavier |
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| planet10 |
| quote: | Originally posted by xcortes
BTW. Any plans on offering phase plugs for these babes?
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At this point i'm thinking standard 206 plugs should work.
dave |
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| blumenco |
I dunno, I have heard higher frequencies coming out of horn mouths before. not necessarily desirable, but still.
efficiency is tough to rate accurately. I feel that in room efficiency, (especially with strategically reinforcing rooms) and frequency response is so far different than rated in most cases, that we really end up guestimating. that is what I am doing here.
if we assume that every action has equal and opposite reaction, then the back wave would be just as powerful as the front wave. perfect reinforcement would give 3db extra on efficiency. thats all mumbo jumbo though. realistically, the horn sucks up a decent amount of that. my final guestimate would be that it hovers around 100db efficient or a little under. if our horns end up being precicely 98 db, then its a sad day for bass.
also, I feel that a little more weight should be placed on the lower frequencies when averaging efficiency on frequency response, just because so much more of that 1 watt goes to below 250 or so hertz.
in either case, I am certainly no expert here. out of my league.
just some thoughts.
Clark |
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| no xo |
| Well the construction of the cabinets for my FE20ESR`s are done , except for a little more sanding. I will cover the top, sides, and baffle with walnut veneer and use ebony stain for the mouth and back. I usually finish the cabinets with 3 coats of poly and on these I`m making magnetic grille covers for the baffle using Klipsch cane grille cloth to give them a sort of 60`s look, removeable of course, These cabinets are HEAVY and moving them around to finish them will require strength and care. The drivers are hooked up to a small receiver now with a bass heavy cd on repeat and will be played almost constantly until I mount them in about another 2 weeks if all goes well. Listening to the drivers not mounted or broken still impress me but I will post my progress when done. I can compare them to the Fe206E`s in the recommended horns, side by side, and I`m anxious to hear the differences and I`ll probably do some rough measuring with a test CD and a Radio Shack SPL meter to see the differences. I`ll let anyone interested know what I find. This is a great hobby. |
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| planet10 |
| quote: | Originally posted by blumenco
if we assume that every action has equal and opposite reaction, then the back wave would be just as powerful as the front wave. perfect reinforcement would give 3db extra on efficiency. thats all mumbo jumbo though. realistically, the horn sucks up a decent amount of that. my final guestimate would be that it hovers around 100db efficient or a little under. if our horns end up being precicely 98 db, then its a sad day for bass. |
The whole point of the back-loaded horn is to lift the drooping bass up to the same leavel as the midrange (and done well will also cancel baffle-step losses. A horn is really only good for about 3 or max 4 octaves so if it is providing an increase of efficiency up into the midrange it is not going to be doing it too well.
| quote: | | if our horns end up being precicely 98 db, then its a sad day for bass. |
That is exactly what the goal should be... if we are getting to 50 Hz on this horn that is more than 15 dB of gain (at 50 Hz).... we don't want any horn gain above 200-250 Hz.
dave |
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| xcortes |
| My carpenter delevired today the eighty pieces of plywood to build the recommended blhs. They're gonna be big and heavy. I already started putting together the horns. I think in a couple of weekends they can be playing. |
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| SunRa |
Validator,
how would you compare the Fostex 206ESR and the Hemp? |
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| validator |
Hi,
FE206ES-R has more detail in mid and high range but Fostex cost twice as much as Hemp FR8.0DIY. The bass is better with Hemp but I could only compare in identical reflex enclosures. FE206ES-R is a horn driver and should be placed in the right enclosure.
Regards
Thorsten |
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| bassrogue |
Hello everyone! This is my first post!
I ordered my 206 es-r drivers last week and can hardly wait to try them! They will be going in some 208 sigma BLH Cabs. that I built last year. Has anyone used this cab. and will the 206es-r work in them?
Im using the FE 206 in them right now and I think they sound good but then this is the first and only fullrange speakers Ive heard.
Thanks! |
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| bassrogue |
I've had a few days of listening to the new 206esr now and my first impressions are that they are well worth the money spent.
I dont have a way to do any real measuring except comparing to the old 206 that I've had in those boxes up till now. They are smoother through the entire range and much more defined too.:)
On the bass end I feel that they may go a bit lower but then that could be just the added definition giving the illusion of lower bass. I'm just not sure about that.
I think they could use the planet10 phase plug and I will put them in as soon as I work up the nerve to cut the center cap out of a $225 driver!;)
I'm powering these with a 45 set and all in all I could'nt be happier.
I'd like to thank everyone here for all the wonderful info that I've read here at DIYaudio!
Travis |
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| no xo |
| FWIW I`ll have my Fostex recommended horns done by the middle of next week. I veneered them in walnut, and stained the inside of the mouth black. 2 more coats of poly and the drivers go in. I`ll ask a friend to photograph them and get them on this website, (I`m a computer dufus) so I can show them off. The finish is looking good and I hope the pictures do them justice. About 200 hrs. on the drivers now so that when they get installed they`ll sound about fully broken-in. I`ll see you when they`re completely done. |
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| Lagroute |
Hi !
Just tried my brand new pair in the Le8t's 80l closed boxes !
They aren't really broken (+-10hours), with a solid state AURA VA50 amp (I'd prefer a SE tube or mosfet amp but they aren't finished), but even in these boxes the sound damn good !
I think their frequency response is a little smoother and less rising than fe206e but they seem a little less dynamic (maybye due to the closed 80l boxes ?).
The magnet is huge and the finish impressive. Really more worth the money than many many other speakers ! damn fostex, these japanese really are the best ! |
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| no xo |
| The drivers were installed in the Fostex recommended cabinet last nite and I had some time left for listening. High frequencies seem smoother and more extended than stock FE206E`s ( I have the regular 206`s in Fostex recommended cabinets also), mid range a little more detailed, and bass overall about the same. I`m not sure if it is my room or the placement, but I get a sort of droning coloration in the lower mid-upper bass that the regular models don`t have. The more I listened the less obivous it seemed, maybe more energy in a range the others were lacking in. When I added a sub and played around with adjustments, bass improved and they sounded better, but they are different. I plan to move them around a little and further tune the sub. Overall they are better, but those who own the regular FE206E`s can rest assured they have an excellent driver. I`ll check back after some more listening. |
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| no xo |
| I`m getting about a 4-5db rise between 150hz and 200hz ,where other speakers in the same position in the room don`t. Anyone have a suggestion for taming this in the horn? Maybe those Fostex reflectors. Any suggestions welcome. |
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| no xo |
| I`ve been listening for 2 weeks now and expirimenting with stuffing almost everyday. Well I think I`ve got it right. I added polyfil, and filled the whole cc, making sure there was plenty directly behind the driver. I damped the cc alot more than I had planned to, but that did the trick. Last nite I listened to them for about 4 hrs, with no fatigue, in fact it hard to turn the system off last night. Vinyl sounds so good thru these, I`m playing stuff I have not played for 20 years..literally! When I finished them, I was dissapointed, but playing with position and stuffing these are very enjoyable. I have a friend that will post some pictures of them. |
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| Pendergast |
Awesome!
Really looking for those pictures noxo! |
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| hm |
Hello,
to fill up the sound below 1 kHz try
a bi driver tripel horn, you get bass
from the second cheap driver BG20,
and by interlacing the membran movement
you will get a best step response,
specially because the Fostex has a stroke of
only 0,6 mm, the 206E has 1,5 mm.
http://www.hm-moreart.de/102.htm
free download, measurements |
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| Jrook |
Hi noxo, can you post a few pictures for us now that they are finished. Heres a look at my 166ES-R's
http://home.earthlink.net/~conartonj/id1.html
I have a pair of the 206ES-R but wanted to wait till all the
fanfare and hoopla die down before settling on a cabinet.
:wave:
Best,
Jrook |
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| no xo |
| Jrook, I had a friend who is more computer savy than I post some pictures, but he put them on a thread I started called Fostex HP Reflectors. On page 2 of that thread there are 2 or 3 pics posted by noxonewbie, a friend that has been "bitten by the bug." Please check these out and give me your honest opinion, I appreciate constuctive criticism, so both positive and negative statements are welcome. Thanks for the request, Ray |
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| no xo |
| Last nite I removed all the poly stuffing and deflex from the bottom of thr CC and added more wool felt behind the driver and sand bags to the bottom of the CC. This brought back the resonance around 150HZ to 200HZ and they sounded worse. There is a pronounced lower mid, upper bass peak that really bothers me. This morning I went back to stuffing and deflex and the peak is reduced, but not gone. Tonite I plan to put some deflex on the sides of the CC and put a little stuffing in the throat and listen some more. Any comments on stuffing the throat? Based on what I read stuffing is usually a bad thing for dynamics and want use as little as possible. After I make these changes I`ll report what I hear. |
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| DocLorren |
NoXo,
Pooh, sounds like the recommended enclosure and ES-R are pretty difficult to tame. Although I am familiar with long break in time of Fostex drivers, I think your 150 hours should give a fairly good impression of the final sonic settling. Your listening impressions surprise me a bit since Fostex is familiar with BLH designs and I am pretty sure they have taken some pre-cautions not to scrw up their new special and expensive 206ES-Rs. So what is up with the design? |
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| no xo |
| Hey Doc, I wish I knew the answer. I`ve built the Fostex recommended horns for the FE206E`s and love them. When I saw that Fostex was coming out with a limited edition "improved" version, I had to have them. In my room the standard versions with T90A`s capped with a .33MFD cap, sound better in almost every way. I will continue to expirement with damping in the CC, but the resonance I hear makes me wonder if I have a poor glue job and a loose panel inside creating the sort of droning sound in the lower mids/upper bass. I hope that`s not the case or there will be a fire. You can see some pictures of the finished a friend/helper posted in the HP Reflector thread. If you have any ideas let me know. Thanks, Ray. |
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| mp9 |
| you may want to get a pair of clamps and two 2x4s or deep dish clamps and listen with clamps on specific joint locations . moving them around may help locate a miscut/unbonded panel . good luck . |
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| no xo |
| That`s a good idea mp9. When I glued the final side panel I used 2 100lbs steel weights and 4-7" deep clamps to make sure the interior walls were sealed and 18 to 20 clamps around the perimeter. All pieces were pretty square and accurately cut ( my dad was a wood shop teacher when I was growing up) so I hope there are no loose panels, but I can`t get inside far to check. Last nite I removed all poly stuffing in the CC and lined it with deflex except the front baffle and that helped alot. Now they sound pretty good at lower levels, but the more I turn it up, things fall apart. I`ll try the clamps this weekend and post the results, and thanks for the idea. If there are loose panels way inside, any suggestons how to seal them without ruining the veneer with screws? |
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| no xo |
| I think I `ve got it right. I lined the CC (back, sides and bottom) with deflex and added a little wool batting to the throat and thing evened out nicely. After getting the damping right and with additional break in I like these more every time I listen to them. I now feel that these are the among the most listenable speakers I`ve owned. It`s been a learning and rewarding process. |
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| DocLorren |
No Xo,
Good to hear they are really smoothing up and getting right. Do you think it was worth the hassle compared to your (cheaper) 206s? Do you think it needs 200+ hours before you should modify the enclosures or experiment with damping?
Two days ago, I just unpacked my ES-Rs and drove them, without any enclosure or baffle, with my T-amp to hear what they would be like. I was shocked! Straight out of the box and totally naked they sounded bloody bloody awful. Like an amplified telephone line. Agreed, I had to smile a little since it also reminded me how the Fostex 108ES sounded for the first few minutes/hours and they are fantastic right now after 300+ hours. Still, there was sonic shock, a feeling of undeserved punishment. If I weren't prepared for it and didn't know what they are probably capable of in the future I would have sold them immediately. |
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| no xo |
| Doc, I today I feel differently about them than I did yesterday. Last nite I was playing some Steve Earle and back came that resonance I thought I had tamed. In fact they sounded bad, and this was on a simple acoustic piece where fullrangers usually shine. I`m about ready to bring them back in the shop and adjust some more, but Wed. nite I stripped one of the T-nuts which mounts the driver. Now I have to cut the screw to get them out again,very frustrating. I go back and forth with these. My regular FE206E`s never gave me this much trouble, and today I feel like selling the "ESR`s" and put the regular ones back in the system. Last weekend I was having alot of fun with the ESR`s and now I back to square one. Am I a flake, do I need counseling, or should I just take more medication(LOL). I need a doctor`s advice. But seriously, I will continue to work on the ESR`s because when they do sound right I hear so much promise. I hope more break in, they have at least 250 hrs on them now, and I`ve heard they need 600 to 1000 hrs before they smooth out. I not ready to give up or sell them yet, but my patience is wearing thin. Also I will bring them in my basement and hook them up to my HT system and see if room nodes are the problem. Hang tough, Ray |
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| Lagroute |
I also think the main shocking thing is that they do not sound like the other FOSTEX imho. They have different tone (due to the radial paper making ?). I think there's less harshness in the highs than the 206e but the mids aren't as clear as the Fostex usually have ... Do you think so ?
I still do love them and find them easier to drive than the very good but agressive without a good sweet tube amp fe206e. |
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| no xo |
| Well here we go again. I was able to spend some more time wth them this weekend. I cut the mounting bolt that had the stripped T-nut and pulled out both drivers again. This time I added some more wool batting to the throat, I filled the entire 1st section, lightly and made sure it was even and somewhat loose. They sounded pretty good, even on the discs I was complaining about on my last reply. So back and forth I go. And yes, they do sound different from the other Fostex drivers I`ve used,(FE206E, FE166E, FE127E) so my expirience is limited. The Fe206ESR`s have more mid bass energy than I am used to and on certain recordings this is wonderful and other recordings, not so great. I will continue to work on these because I feel that when the horns are tuned to my room and tastes, I will have some very satisfying sound. I listened to the new William Orbit yesterday and it sounded very good. The story will coninue. |
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| no xo |
| Things continue to improve. I didn`t get much time to listen last week with Independence Day. I`m finding that the break in period for these is much longer than any other speaker I`ve had expirience with. It also seems the horns break in as well as the drivers, and my ears become more familiar with their sound. The FE206ESR highlights the difference between vinyl and cd more than I`m used to, which leads me to believe they are more accurate than what I`m used to as well. Deflex in the CC and light wool stuffing in the throat seems to give the most balanced sound. Kloss gave me the best advice about stuffing and break in. The more I play them the more I like them. I kind of relate it to some of my favorite music. The first time I heard Frank Zappa, I thought what is this ****, and as time went on he has become one of my favorites. It was so different, it took time to "digest" like the FE206ESR. |
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| uwin |
| hi,can u tell me how much about the speakers? |
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| no xo |
| Uwin, I`m not sure I understand your question, could you be more specific, and I`ll be happy to tell you what I know about my pair. |
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| DocLorren |
No Xo
I guess he wants to know whether you will have another depression after another hundred hours or so of ES-R break in time... |
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| no xo |
| Last nite I had a chance to play them a couple hours and they are settling in beautifully. I gave them a pretty good work out and played a wide variety of music. I think that these are so different from the regular FE206E that the sound was not at all what I expected. The break in time on these are huge and I`m glad I was told by Kloss to be patient. They are really beginning to shine. I`ve added a T90A with a .33mf cap and like the results and am considering going for the T90aEX. No more depression or wavering back and forth on the sound. They are aging like fine wine. I`ll keep posting, thanks Ray. |
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| uwin |
| quote: | Originally posted by no xo
Uwin, I`m not sure I understand your question, could you be more specific, and I`ll be happy to tell you what I know about my pair. |
i am sorry,i want to know how much money about the fe206es-r (a pair) in your country?
In china it would cost about 550 USD. |
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| uwin |
Thanks,its almost the same price in the USA and China,after paying the tax.hehe |
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| xcortes |
| I've been playing mine for maybe 30 hours now (I'm not friend of forced break in) with a 600mW amp. Without any filling or deflectors, nada. Either I'm getting used to it or boominess is going away. Maybe break in time unleashes the higher frequencies leveling them with the lower ones? |
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| uwin |
| I don`t like to break in the speakers,its feel so good to taste the transformation of them. |
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| xcortes |
Maybe 50 hrs on them and they're already shining. No boominess, no harshness, lots of detail. They sound fantastic.
I have a question to all you: why doesn't Fostex recommend any filling material or reflectors? In other BLH designs I remember them recommending at least reflector pads but not in this one. Could it be that they really intended the design to be used bare? Mines are that way and although I'll experiment with filling later I don't need any urge to. |
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| Scottmoose |
| Good question. You'd have to ask Fostex for the definetive answer I'm afraid. One thing I would do is put some felt or similar on the back to the CC, just to stop any reflections coming back through the cone -those Fostex CCs are pretty shallow. Other than that, if you're happy, I'd leave well alone and enjoy! |
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| no xo |
| Doc Loren, I have had progress over the last couple weeks with regards to taming the horns. Wool stuffing in the throat and lining the cc with deflex was a big improvement. When I decided to build these I wanted to use Nordost Blue Heaven speaker cables and the ones I own are set up for biwire. So I used a biwire input cup and Nordost 2 Flat for internal wiring. I pulled all of this out and ran a set of Signal Cable Basic speaker cables, soldered directly to the driver and Zplug bananas on the amp. This is a huge improvement, as well as significant break in time. I could not believe the difference, especially since the Signal Cables are far less expensive than Nordost. I also bought 2 pair of Signal Cable interconnects, CD to pre. pre to amp. I am so happy I stuck it out with these horns. The sound is wonderful and I`ll probably keep these for many years. It took longer than I thought, but the end result was worth the effort. Being a greenhorn, I really appreciate all the advice and encouragement from the knowledgable people on this site. If I can do it, anybody can. |
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| blumenco |
no xo that is awesome to hear! congrats. now get ready to continue tweaking ad nauseum, or simply let them settle for a year and then make final changes. just wait till you move furniture a few inches and notice a change in the sound! try keeping a digital hygrometer around and find out at what humidity they sound best. an old gizmo tweak was an whole body ivertor for like 15 minutes. after you right your self, your system should sound better. I can vouch for this.
yeah, it is so strange the effect that cables have on the tone of the speaker. it can totally accentuate and hide problems.
i cannot wait to start construction of my pair. I hope to have them done in a few weeks here.
I will be experimenting cable wize between high quality (but not very expensive) litz cable and magnet wire. I am anticipating the magnet wire to be the killer combo here but eh we will see. it has gone either way before.
Clark |
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| Jeb-D. |
| Excuse my stupidity, but how does a 8.2ohm resistor make them bass reflex friendly? |
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| Pendergast |
Hello,
For some reasons, I am not allowed to post new thread. I do not want to hijack this one, but I thought some of you would be interested. My apologies if I err.
I had the drivers at home for a while, and ordered the wood a few months ago, but it is all 6 hours away by car; it is at my parents place, where I wanted to build it with my father.
So I got bored and thought, what the heck, let's open baffle them.
I used the plans here, and modified them a bit so the driver is 12 inches down from the top.
My source is an Apple Powerbook 12 inches 1GHz, with an Audipohile USB from M-Audio, some kimber interconnects from 12 years ago, and my amp is a S.E.X. from bottlehead, stock.
The material for the open baffle is cheap: 2 sheets of 4' x 4' 3/8" thick plywood that I got for less than 40$ (canadian). The job was tough, as the plywood is too flexible. There is no doubt in my mind though that with better plywood, more quality you come out.
I am having fun. The voices especially are fantastic (especially Mavis Staples and Lucky Peterson's album "Spirituals & Gospel Dedicated to Mahalia Jackson").
:D |
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| ScottG |
| quote: | Originally posted by Pendergast
Hello,
For some reasons, I am not allowed to post new thread. I do not want to hijack this one, but I thought some of you would be interested. My apologies if I err.
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The key to starting a thread is to check the upper left hand box that asks if you have searched.. |
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| Pendergast |
| quote: | Originally posted by ScottG
The key to starting a thread is to check the upper left hand box that asks if you have searched.. |
Here I am learning something new. Noted. Thanks. |
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| Pendergast |
I created a new thread more relevant. Is there a mod who could remove my post here?
Thanks. |
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| CLS |
| quote: | Originally posted by Jeb-D.
...but how does a 8.2ohm resistor make them bass reflex friendly? |
A driver disigned for horn-loaded usually has a very low Qts. Low Q drivers are often suited for vented box, too, but too low of it would limit the cone excursion, thus bass-shy.
Resistor in series with driver makes the Qes higher, thus higher Qts. This would free up some bass response.
Using amps with high output impedance have similar effect. |
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| blumenco |
forced break in is hard to do as well.
some of us consider that there is a simple time aspect of break in of these banana pulp cone drivers - on the 1-2 year realm. it is hard to speed that up and I feel that the most profound break in comes from that simple time passing, having them installed and playing regularly for that long. it is fun to hear the musical instrument develop.
in my mad science, I amm considering experimenting with humidification/dehumidification, stressing, destressing (via b+ applied to terminals in certain amounts) etc, etc. even sunlight, etc.
no doubt I would destroy a few. cryoing works too, half the time....
Clark |
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| ScottG |
Thee spider (and to a lesser extent the surround) needs good old fashion *signal related* excursion. The same for the glue between the diaphram and the surround.
The diaphram needs increased levels of oxygen. Oxidation makes the bannana fiber more compliant and turns the color a bit more brown. (..my 166esrs are much darker than when I recieved them - and the response is smoother and less "chalky".) |
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| blumenco |
wow, I never thought of the oxidation, but it really makes sense. that would explain the simple time factor here. hmmmm..
thanks
Clark |
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| blumenco |
I have had the es-rs in small sealed test cabinets for a few days now. been playing with the t90aex. I have a .47mfd on them.
these things are just so pleasing. I like the tone so much more than the 1666es-r. the 166 is very nice and all. totally incredible in fact, but i must admit that it was never involving enough for me. too tame. the 206 es-r have far better vocals to my taste. everything is very involving. there does seem to be a small hole somewhere in the midrange. I hesitate to talk much about it because of te test cabinet. just listening to the speed of these drivers though, I am very pleased. best big cone full ranger i have ever heard. there seem to be so many benefits of the big drivers, except cost, size, and the shoutyness, which these do not have.
they necessitate the use of highly refined low power tube amps. just no two ways about it.
they allow you to peer into the soul of your amp. few will be happy with what they find.
well,
see yas
Starting construction on monday.
Clark |
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| Scottmoose |
I'm thinking Red Wine Audio Sig. 30 or Clari-T at this point would be A Way Forward. Or one of Admiral Nelson's First Watt or DIY Zen designs.
Other than those, tubes every time. |
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| no xo |
| Bluemenco, are you using an attenuator on the T90AES? I want to incorporate a pair but I am trying to avoid a pot or transformer. I had used the T90A`s with just a .33 mfd cap and that seemed OK, it was definately not bright, and a .47 mfd cap seemed to sizzle a little more than I care for. I`m having a hard time justifying the $, and you opinion is of value to me. Thanks, NOXO. |
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| DaveCan |
| This was sitting way back on page 13 (when searching from the whole year) so I thought I'd bump it as I'm really curious to how people are liking the 206esr now? Anymore info on the sound and cab options of these drivers would be great to read about.. Dave:) |
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| no xo |
| DaveCan, if you read the whole thread, you know I was frustrated the 1st few weeks with the sound. I got some good advice from a few inmates here, on stuffing and damping the horns. Kloss and Bluemenco were especially helpful with the right way to tune them. Been listening to them a few months now, without feeling the need for further adjustment. I use them more as a wide band driver, augmented with T90AEX and a sealed sub. Currently I am very happy with the sound and feel these will be my main speakers for a long time. They`re detailed, and have a natural soundstage. On piano, acoustic guitar, and vocals they are more convincing than anything else I`ve ever had in my home. For almost 20 years I was a LS3/5a, and Proac 1sc owner and fullrange sound has changed everything. Anyway, after some judicial stuffing and lots of break in, I now love the FE206ESR in the Fostex recommended horn. YMMV |
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| DaveCan |
| Hi no xo, I did read it all, just wondered now that you all have had them for sometime, maybe some updates could come forth.. Would you have any comments on the driver on it's own without any augmentation on the top or bottom now that they've had some hours on them.. Dave:) |
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| bassrogue |
I've had my 206esr's for about 8 months now and it seems like they just keep getting better every time I listen.
The only changes made are the addition of planet10 phase plugs and removing more than half of the stuffing from the CC. They sounded great with the chamber nearly full of stuffing at first but as they wear in they became "restricted" sounding. All thats left is a pad of poly fill about 8"X8"X2" right behind the driver.
The phase plugs were a big step (cutting the dust cap off a $225 speaker:eek: ) but well worth the the blood that was sweated out doing it! IMHO (it was'nt that bad)
I'm using fostex recomended 208 sigma cab's with no tweeter or sub and I dont feel a need for either one.
People that hear them ALWAYS ask where the sub is and have a hard time believing there is'nt one! :cool:
"That much bass can't be coming from just a pair of 8" drivers!" |
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| DaveCan |
| I hear you on the dustcapectomy that could be nerve racking on a driver like that. How do the mids and highs compare to the fe108's if you've heard them? Nice to see you enjoy them solo without any augmentation as that's how I would want to use them if I can get a pair. Hmmm I wonder how they would sound in a BIB cab.. Dave:) |
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| bassrogue |
I've never heard the 108 but I'd sure like to! I've been planning to build BIB's for my ESR's for a few months now but I never can get the time to do it. :bawling:
Maybe now that winter's coming I can focus on some projects (BIB, frugal, and an amp or two):smash: |
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| blumenco |
I have mine in the acoustic guise that I will leave them.
decent solid core wire
t90aex - .33mfd cap fostex cs series
inch thick pad of crimped fiberous poly type damping behind driver and bottom of cc. it is one continuous piece.
these speakers will certainly stand the test of time. I am consistently amazed by their overall balanced character for a large 8 inch BLH. they seem to choose the right compromises and amaze in the right ways. they have a very intense and involving sound. they can totally disappear with the right amps. yes, perhaps the 208es-r will be fun to play with in its own right. the 206es-r is a great speaker though, and will be reserved a special place in my heart for a long long time. the resonance tone especially of the horn has developed into a beautiful or even sarcastic tone. amazing and subtly expressful of the bass notes. they have a range of super low bass that is jaw droppingly impressive for anyone to hear, yet beautiful at the same time. as many of us know, it is frequent for a speaker to be rated down to 30hz. it is rare for it to have any sort of musical expression down there. most speakers I would rather have tuned higher and keep the dynamics. but these things deliver and sing at that realm. even though, they seem to have a monitor's tone for the most part. the recommended enclosure at least. but strangely there is a little something more - I love all the sublte color from them as well. it is realistic and artistic at the same time. they are musical instruments of a high level of refinement. needless to say, I am not dissappointed here. I have learned alot from their construction and implimentation. they are hyper efficient and allow our tubes to sing forthright and be strong of character. as far as amp tone is concerned, they provide a neautral environment within which to work. by neutral, I am using the word distinctly differently from that of the commercial audio realm. it is concerning their efficiency and inherent tone. amplifiers sound as they are - too dry, too sweet, whatever their problems, they come out obviously. as well, their merits too. this quality being different from certain other high efficiency types, which end up needing an amp of certain tone quality - not the neutral one (either sweetened or dried)- to sound good at all. these horns, by my estimation, like a relatively neutral toned amp for greatest musical performance. they also sound good with alot of different tonal styles depending on one's preferences. it affords an interesting potential for diversity in this realm.
what am I using? a well tuned and built sex amp. jensen coupling caps, alps pot. building paramourII then converting them to emissions lab mesh plate 45s, foreplayIII. source is the echo mona digital audio interface (hard drives - no jitter) studio aesthetic - neutral tone - affords playing around from there and knowing what you are dealing with...I have wanted to play with 45s for some time. this is my much anticipated opportunity. yay!!!!
well, it is good to hear these long term impressions of the horns from other people too. to me, in the BLH realm, they are the only impressions that matter. yes, no doy, blh are hard to refine and to have patience with but in the end are worth every minute of waiting for the wood to destress and for your tone to develop in 2+months. they are almost pointless to tweak with till that time comes. an instrument builder is patient with every step of the process. constantly keeping an open mind when trying a new design. that is what I have learned to do through these horns.
well, see y'all
Clark |
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| no xo |
| DaveCan, last nite I removed the supertweeter and sub and played some music. For my music tastes, I feel the sub is more important than the T90AEX. I listen to alot of electronic music like William Orbit and his music requires output below 40HZ. When I was playing acoustic music like Guy Clark and James McMurtry, I don`t miss much important without either sub or tweeter and the musicians actually have a more believeable presence in the room. Piano, which I feel is one of the Fe206ESR`s strong points, need do augmentation at either end. On the T90AEX`s I use only a .33mfd Fostex cap, no attenuation, and the sub comes in about 50HZ and the level is low. I don`t try to add more bass and treble, just extend them a little. I could live happily without them on 90% of the music I play, which sort of makes me wonder why I paid so much for so little. Back to horses for courses. If you want to rock, sub and super tweet help alot, but if your tastes are more mellow, I think you get a little more "magic" with just the single driver. From my expirience the best thing you can do to improve the sound is give them PLENTY of break in. It`s great to have a speaker that I like more and more everyday, I just got off to a rough start. NOXO |
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| blumenco |
good to hear noxo. I love william orbit!
my enclosures, as mentioned, are able to do 75-85 average db at listening position with a sex amp at nine o clock. this is the sweet spot of the system for most of the music I listen to. I love the way things are breaking in.
I actually measured my enclosures with ~12db rolloff down to 15hz. ha!!! with definite and significant output below 40hz to around 25.
I think though that like the effect of a super tweeter, it is significant output as low level as it is.
yeah, I am hooked on my supertweeters though, especially the t90aex, which has proven to be a very nice one indeed. especially in the larger rooms that these things were meant for. it is a magical back horn. super speed. I find that while perhaps the supertweeter might really only apply to the demands of vinyl playback. that the single driver keeps the treble of our ever nasty digital down.
Clark |
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| THX |
Hi All.
New driver from fostex
FE-208ES-R !!!
8Ohm
foF38Hz
fo23kHz
99dB/W/m
100W
mo12g
Qo0.16
7.95cm
3.1kg
6.3kg
185m
http://tokudane.jugem.jp/
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| validator |
Hi,
nothing new at all - sorry :D This driver has been discussed several times here. It is a "Japan market only" model. You might get one from "Eifl Export" at high price.
Regards
Thorsten |
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| planet10 |
| quote: | Originally posted by validator
You might get one from "Eifl Export" at high price.
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They haven't got it listed & they did not answer an inquiry.
They do have one scant mention of a 208eS (which at $400 each is a lot more than the listed 208eSigma at $188). That could be it.
There is an FE88eSR.
dave |
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| Scottmoose |
Now the FE88ES-R is a driver I would very much like to hear. I've seen a cabinet design for it somewhere which is rather nice.
Wish Fostex would get that 208ES-R out into wider availability though. That thing is potentially one of the finest FR drivers ever made. |
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