| wchick |
Thank you Mr Pass for this Penultimate Zen Diy project. I'm a newbie in this hobby and the simplicity of this project really gave me encouragement and finally satisfaction. After burning in the Zen 4 for around 20 hours, it sounds very good. I'm playing back my CD collection one by one, noticing that each of them are different from what I have known before. This amp is very comfortable to listen to. Thanks! Mr Pass.:cool: My coming project will be a pair of Aleph 5 Mono.
:angel: :drink:
Wallace |
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| David Huang |
| Dear Wchick:cool: very nice.hope post more pictures.Can you tell me about the chassis, transformer, capacitors size and more detail.Thank you! |
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| PedroPO |
very good job:D
send more pictures! |
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| Mad_K |
-Congrats!
Really nice looking amps you've got there!
-PS -Why build A5, when you've got this one? (Besides the power output, but I wouldn't worry about that -it seems you can get a little more power from your ZV4 than the original) |
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| wchick |
David,
I followed Mr Pass's article of Penultimate Zen as close as possible since I'm a newbie I wouldn't change anything that I didn't fully understand. I used 2 transformers from Avel Lindberg, one for each channel being 250VA, 18+18V. I use two 26,000 uF power supply caps for each channel (got them from Apex Jr.). For the chassis, I bought aluminium sheet from onlinemetal.com; top, bottom and rear are all 1/8 inch thick. They are bolted together with L-bar. Front plate is custom made from par-metal.com, 3/16" thick and was clear anodized. Will post more pics after work.
Mad_K,
I actually plan to build A5 long before the Zen V4's article was released. You know, I feel a little nervous by just having the service manual for me to start. Although Mr Pass said that A5 is not harder to build than Zen V4 (and A5 require no adjustment) I feel much more comfortable to have a "construction manual" to follow. So, I did Zen V4 first, kind of a hand on experience for me a newbie. You might not know how this kind of article is so precious for me. I literally read it many many times to get an idea what's going on and what should I do. Like the balanced line stage article, in a paragraph Mr Pass mentioned how to wire a transformer. Someone may think it not necessary, but to me, it was so helpful. To this point, I really amazed how can a super veteran like Nelson can be so considerate to newbie diyer. :nod:
You know what, I have already have the matched mosfets, heatsink and PCB for Aleph 5. I'm so eager to build one. Stereophile elect Pass' Aleph series to be one of the most significant 100 audiophile equipments. I think I would be proud to own a clone of such a fine amplifier.
Wallace |
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| Mad_K |
Aha....
Now I read you..
Should be lots of fun!
Seems to me that you are good at this, so A5 should be easy for you now...
Good luck! |
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| trigon |
Hi wchick.
Are those copper plates or some goldish stuff.
Very nice and clean.
Trigon. |
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| JasonL |
that is what im going to build how does it soind man.
J |
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| JasonL |
just as a question i seen on the diy some where and booked marked it but lost teh bok mark i seen some where on here the pcb layout in pdf format any one know where that is..?
PWEESE...
( mani got to start saving things to my external hard drive..) 120 gig's is alot of saved things but ill have it ..)
Jason |
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| wchick |
Trigon,
Those are brass plate to spread heat among the heatsinks. Still the center one is remarkably hotter than the others.
JasonL,
It sound pretty good to me. I'm still waiting my speaker to ship to me. Right now I just hook it with a crappy loudspeaker but I'm quite enjoying. :cool:
Wallace |
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| JasonL |
i agree ias i too have crappy speakers till i build some new ones.
here is my choice
a pair of either paradigm studio 100's or a pair of towers from enercy conosure 9's
or
build a pair or satelite speakers consisting of a 7" vocal driver and a focal tweeter and then 4 10" sub of focal drivers .. ill be powering the 10" with my av800. after some mods. and teh satelite speakers with my aleph 5's
what you think... |
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| Dustin Haug |
| If you don't mind me asking approximately how much did this project cost labor not included. I think it's interesting to see how much people spend on projects so I can get a more realistic idea of what it'll cost to make one myself. Nice work!! |
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| wchick |
Thank you.
approximately,
Heat sink $40; chassis aluminium $110; Toroid $77; electronic $120; PCB $50; PS caps $28; RCA female jack $14.5; binding post $25; plus other smaller stuffs. Totally around $480 (it doesn't include shipping cost though).
I'm sure you can cut your cost on metal if you find a local supply. I was so lazy to search locally that I purchase from internet. I use cardas RCA and vampire binding post too. I have a tendency to spend money on good connectors that i don't know whether they really worth to. It makes me feel comfortable, I guess.
:xeye:
Wallace |
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| gary_r |
first off very nice job. your amp turned out veru beautiful and nicer looking than most pro jobs.
i have been looking at this site and the pass diy site and thinking about giving it a go. i have done a search and haven't really seen that much about the sonic difference between the zen and the aleph series. what do you expect to hear defferently coming out of the aleph 5.
also what about the cost differences between buliding the two amps. you said around 450 $ for the zen. what do you think you lay out for the aleph 5 mono's?
for a newbie in this but a good sense of diy and smarts is one really easier than the other??? and if so which one...?
thank you and good luck with new sounds,
gary |
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| protos |
Regarding pricing Aleph 5 monos here is the the list of most expensive to least.
1. Heat sinks . Could be as much as half the price of the project so any savings there would help. Mine cost 400 Euros or about 400 Usd .(4X 250mmX300mmX4mm). Ouch !! You could probably do with less heat sinking than this.
2. Power supply caps. You'll need around 150,000 to 200,000uF.
Could cost between 120 to 200 Euros.
3. Transformers. 2x 500VA. Around 100 Euros.
4. Output Mosfets . Irfp 240 cost me around 4-5 euros each. Minimum is 6 per channel so around 50 Euros.
5. Aluminium panels. Cut to size. 60 Euro.
6. PCB . Dpends if you make it yourself. I wasted a couple till I got it right. Around 60 Euros.Can buy them ready for a little more.
7. Electronics. Can't remember exactly but it is the cheapest. |
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| wchick |
Gray,
I think the cost of a pair of Aleph 5 mono would be just slightly more than a Zen V4. As Proto said, it depends quite a lot on what kind and price of heatsink you use. A5 need a bigger transformer so add some cost to it too. Also, you need matched mosfets for Aleph, either buy a bunch of them to match yourself or get them matched from other source. Both cost you some extra money.
As I mentioned before, I feel more comfortable to have a "construction manual" to follow so I start out with Zen V4. In fact, many diyers and Nelson himself said A5 is not any harder than Zen V4.
I recall someone said in another thread that A5 sound more "authority" than Zen. So far, I have a feeling that the Zen is very comfortable to listen to but slightly lack the bottom power (the penultimate zen article has already mentioned but still good to my taste). Beside, a 60W vs 25W gonna make some difference in some loudspeakers and maybe quite desirable.
Below is the heatsink I planned to use for my coming Aleph 5 mono. One piece for each side that would be dissipating around 75W. I compare this heatsink with one in Aavid and believe it has a thermal resistance of about 0.42 W/C. So it would be about 31.5C rise above ambient (25 +31.5 = 56.5C) which is very good. I'm being conservative that lets say it rise to 39C above ambient, which is finally at 64C, still acceptable to me. :hot:
Wallace ;) |
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| gary_r |
thank you for sharing. i don't plan on starting anything until after the new. right now i am still trying to sort out what i really want to do and this info helps a lot. good luck with the aleph 5's and i look forward to watch their progress here at the site. at least i hope you share along the way.
thanks,
gary |
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| herm |
Wchick;
I have built the Zen4 with one channel on a 9" section
of the Aavid heatsink shown above (total dimension =
9" x 9.75" x 2.28").
I am running the low power version (no r1) so I am
dissipating approximately 66 watts per channel.
The heatsink barely gets hot. Your 75 watts will not
even phase those sinks...
As soon as I find something to measure it with, I will
give you actual rise over ambient numbers.
-herm |
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| kpars |
Dear all,
I am a newbie also, and need transformer information. I will use the amp in 220V. What is the ideal watts of the transformer? What parameters are involved with transformers? Sorry folks, I am a mecahanical engineer and do not know much about electronics, I just love hi-fi and diy projects. Also what if I do not use toroidal transformer?
Thanks |
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| herm |
kpars;
What amp are you going to build? |
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| kpars |
I am planning to build Zen V4.
thanks |
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| UrSv |
Recommendation according to the article on ZenV4 which gives you the information in writing from Mr Pass himself:
2*18 VAC giving 36 VAC at 300 VA per channel.
If running one transformer for both channels 500 VA would be suitable.
/UrSv |
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| wchick |
herm,
I'm glad to hear that your heatsink work out so good. Seem quite likely that my coming A5 should be cool enough. By the way, did you buy your heatsink directly from Aavid? If so, did you buy a big piece and cut by yourself or buy them pre-cut? Also, I'm very interested to know how much they cost you.
UrSv,
I noticed that you diy yourself a pair of ProAc 2.5 clone. I wonder what amp you feed them. I plan to build a pair too and feed with pass amp (most likely Aleph 5). I know ProAc sound great with tube. Could you give some comment about this? Thanks.
Wallace |
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| UrSv |
The ProAcs are currently driven by a DENON AVR-2800 but that will be replaced by an Aleph 30 as soon as possible.
BTW. The ProAcs do not sound bad at all with the Denon...
/UrSv |
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| herm |
Wchick;
I paid $50 for (2) 18" sections.
I got them surplus from a local motor control manufacturer
through an inside source. Too bad I can't get more - I
would buy every one they had!
I had a buddy cut them with a band saw into 9" lengths.
Not too hard, but use lots of lubricant.
-herm |
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| Zapped |
Question re: transformers. wchick, you have located your toroids side by side. Is there any bad effect from locating them stacked on top of one another. Like, some kind of saturation effect or magnetic interaction between the two?? If not, sure would save horizontal real estate to do so.
{P.S. - That is a very clean looking amp you have there, wchick. Heat sinking looks more than adequate. Hope my intended ZenV4 sinks will work --couple of 23 year old Heathkit sinks that would have been on the side of their 250 wpc kit super amp (I bought them as parts).-- but they have no where near the surface area that yours do. Have used Elliot's calculator to est. thermal resist. but not sure}
Larry Wright
Seattle area |
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| wchick |
Larry,
I can't comment the issue about stacking transformer. I myself tried to avoid this, that's why I placed them side by side. However, I do see quite a number of fellow diyers stack their transformer. Maybe other experts may comment this.
Heatsink in my amp maybe sufficient but not efficient because they are in 3 separate pieces. One of them is significantly hotter than the others. I hope you have single big heatsink in your case.
;)
Wallace |
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| herm |
wchick;
As I stated before, I am running the Zen4 in low
power mode ( no R1 ). I am dissipating approximately
66 watts in to each 9 inch sink.
Using a kitchen thermometer, I measure a temp
of 112 degrees over a 62 ambient (fahrenheit).
Looks like you will be in good shape with your
aleph 5 monos.
-herm |
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| wchick |
Thanks for your info, Herm. Really appreciate.
:cool:
Wallace |
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