| Relax |
I want to make like a cube of woofers. I was thinking like 4 or 6 cheap 6-8inchers on the sides of a cube.
I have found a bunch of different woofers I could use, but is it even worth it if one woofer's frequency response is 55hz to whatever?
I think like 6 small woofers would be cool. I am thinking like ~$10 for each woofer. Cheaper is better though.
Any suggestions, moderate music listening, rarely movies. Small room(dorm).
Its going to mate with two of Cyburg's needles with TB W3 in them.
Also the smallest box possible really.
And the woofers will all need to be firing at the same time i suppose to avoid cancelation, so will this be a problem as far as reduceing ouput? I am up for sealed or ported design...
Also would liek it to be able to run with this amp or similar:
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/show...tnumber=300-782
I know its small but I think it would be cool little amp and cube of subs.... |
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| Cal Weldon |
First off, try and avoid putting woofers on different sides of the box. Cool or not, it's not going to help it sound good. The cancellations can reduce the amount of bass your ears hear.
Second, that amp won't cut it even for small woofers. You will want to consider at least the next step up, I think it's the 70 W unit.
You are far better off to buy one good woofer and not 6 cheap ones, again cool or not.
EDIT: How about two woofers and four drone cones aka passive radiators. Actually on second thought that's a dumb idea. |
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| Relax |
i can't see multiple woofers facing different directions ruining the whole point source idea, wouldn't it just create a better circular pattern of radiation?
I will do the 70 w then. |
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| Cal Weldon |
I'll have to let others give you the technical side as all of my dealings are trial and error and I remember there being a lot of error in the trial. ;)
If you do decide to go with six woofers, is there no way you'd be happy with them all on the same side of a non-cubic box?
EDIT: It's not the point source that's so much of a problem as the waves cancelling each other. |
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| Stocker |
| all the same, this type of thing has been done and pictures posted by one or two of the members here. If you want a very small box, then a LOT of power and some sort of bass extending equalization will be required (linkwitz transform etc.) |
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| poobah |
Cal is right, right, and right.
Bass will do the circle thing without help. One nice woofer would be better than 5 pieces of poopy. With some exceptions the best sound comes from the least number of drivers.
By the time you get the internal volume (cubic feet) for 6 drivers it won't be a little cube anymore anyway.
:D |
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| Relax |
So is there absolutely no way this will sound anywhere near good? I just want a cube of woofers....
And its not critical listening, just jammin to music in my dorm... |
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| poobah |
| What frequency will you roll these woofers off at? |
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| RobWells |
If you can find the right 4 / 6 woofers to model well in the desired box size and cross them at a sensible frequency then I can't see a problem. In fact the push - push loading on opposite sides of the box can be of benefit.
You'd need to cross at ~80Hz if you only want 1 'cube' imo .
Cheers,
Rob |
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| purplepeople |
If you're in a dorm, I suggest a huge transmission line that's hung from the ceiling. If I were one of your typical classmates, I'd be way more impressed with that. "Omigod... that thing is huge!"
:)ensen. |
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| speaker |
| quote: | Originally posted by Cal Weldon
First off, try and avoid putting woofers on different sides of the box. Cool or not, it's not going to help it sound good. The cancellations can reduce the amount of bass your ears hear.
Second, that amp won't cut it even for small woofers. You will want to consider at least the next step up, I think it's the 70 W unit.
You are far better off to buy one good woofer and not 6 cheap ones, again cool or not.
EDIT: How about two woofers and four drone cones aka passive radiators. Actually on second thought that's a dumb idea. |
How will woofers on different sides of an enclosure lead to cancellation of sub-bass frequencies? |
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| simon5 |
High Fs, high Qts.
If you only want midbass, it will be ok...
About 3x 8 ohms in parallel, if you got a beefy amplifier, might be ok, otherwise, don't push it too loud. |
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| planet10 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Cal Weldon
First off, try and avoid putting woofers on different sides of the box. Cool or not, it's not going to help it sound good. The cancellations can reduce the amount of bass your ears hear. |
As long as the woofers are only working at low frequencies, it doesn't make any difference which side they are one. I always like to use bass drivers in push-push pairs. Finding a cheap 6-8" driver that goes as low as say a pair of 10" would be a REAL challenge. Buying fewer of a higher quality of larger drivers is -- generally -- going to give better results. 2 10s or 2 8s would be mu suggestion. A pair of ApexJR 8s is $80. A pair of extremis 6,8s (which i sort into the same bin as typical 10s) would be $200 (we are working on subs for Scot & Chris with this last configuration)
dave |
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| Stocker |
Guys he isn't aiming for hifi here, just some tunes.
Go for it. You might have to use active equalization like I said, in order to get the lower frequencies, but go for it and enjoy it. |
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| Relax |
I might just try 2 10s now.
although 3 seven inchers might be cool. Any suggestions on a single 10 or 2 10s cheap yet good quality that will reach normal listening levels with minimal power? |
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| simon5 |
| You can't extend your budget for 4x 7 inchers? It will be easier on your amp and louder. |
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| Relax |
thats the same budget. lol.
4 smaller subs around 10 a piece, or 2 10s around 20 a piece, or 1 ten for 40.
I modeled the 4 7s above in a simple sealed enclosure and they dropped quick. like -3 db point somewhere above 35hz.
Kinda a buzzkill.
I really shoudl hold off anyways, i have some tangbands awaiting some enclosures and a sub for a car that needs to be built. I still want to explore the idea, but the budget may be to tight.
Suggestions still wanted, heck if I can do it for this cheap I will! |
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| Volenti |
| quote: | Originally posted by purplepeople
If you're in a dorm, I suggest a huge transmission line that's hung from the ceiling. If I were one of your typical classmates, I'd be way more impressed with that. "Omigod... that thing is huge!"
:)ensen. |
I second the TL idea, 8' of concrete form tube and an mdf end, couldn't be simpler :smash: |
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| Relax |
| 8 foot tube? how big diameter, like that of the sub? |
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| planet10 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Relax
8 foot tube? how big diameter, like that of the sub? |
Bigger than the driver... if you are considering a TL, you should model it.
dave |
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| roger_lew |
| If you like the idea of having lots of woofers how about a cube with 2 push-pull Dayton DVC 8" opposing one another and 2 matching Dayton 8" Passive Radiators opposing one another. You would have great efficiency, the size and look you are going for, and they are cheap (23$ per woofer, $14.20 per PR)! I have this setup in a 15" cube powered by a cheapo 120w goodwill reciever and it sounds really amazing for its price and size. |
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| xstephanx |
he coudl also use one of those tangband high excursion 8s, those are soo cool. im relaly tempted to make some active stereo subwoofers to go with my energys out of those, btu i knwo i dont really need em.
but yeah two of those tangband 8s with 4 prs and youd have woofs on all sides! jsut make sure the active drivers are on top and bottom of the cube. |
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| chops |
How about one of these in either a half or full wavelength TL?
Tang Band 6.5" Sub
However, please don't ask me about how to design one as I have no clue when it comes to TLs. This is one sub design I still have yet to venture into. :D |
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| xstephanx |
| sorry to hijack a bit but chops, what ever happened to those monster 2x15 dipoles you had? |
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| chops |
| quote: | Originally posted by xstephanx
sorry to hijack a bit but chops, what ever happened to those monster 2x15 dipoles you had? |
I retired them well over a year ago ONLY because they were entirely too large for my room and I couldn't place my main loudspeakers where they needed to be to sound good. I still have all four 15" drivers sitting in the closet though. :D |
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| Cal Weldon |
| quote: | Originally posted by speaker
How will woofers on different sides of an enclosure lead to cancellation of sub-bass frequencies? |
Speaker, I'm using the wrong term, sorry.
| quote: | Originally posted by planet10
As long as the woofers are only working at low frequencies, it doesn't make any difference which side they are one. |
In theory I agree but I wonder. When you factor the room into it, aren't you asking for trouble if you have woofers firing everywhere, especially as the frequency goes up?
My one experiment with a cube did not go well and I have not gone down that road again. In my mind, it doesn't make sense. |
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| roger_lew |
| I have not experienced any problems personally with phase cancellation using opposing woofers. But I should also mentioned that the sub is crossed at 100 Hz, so I do not know if it would present problems at higher frequencies. I recall reading somewhere that placing woofers on opposite sides reduces box resonance because the motion of opposing cones cancel one another. The same is true for passive radiators opposing one another. Many plate subs offer phase adjustment which could possible correct potential phase problems. |
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| Retsel |
If the backwave of the woofers' drivers is trapped, which would occur with your suggested design, then there would be no problem with sound cancellation.
We should really rely on what we have learned applying dipoles or horns which have certain characteristics that are desirable when reproducing sound.
You generally don't want drivers on the sides of boxes because they will direct the sound towards the side walls and add to early reflections from the side walls. When the sound is bouncing off the side walls and reaching your ear within a short period of time after the direct sound reach your ear, it sounds distorted. This is true of higher frequencies and may not be a problem for your box if you are truly using this as a subwoofer. Reflections against the back wall is not so much a problem if the box is at least 5 feet from the back wall. Again, this is all true of the frequencies above some threshold that also depends on the size of the room.
Directing the woofers in different directions may help or hurt the production of room nodes, which is another concern. Usually having the bass created from different sources helps to reduce room nodes, but I doubt that if the sources are coming from the same box that it would make enough of a difference.
Retsel |
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| bender460 |
| I've built a Decware "wicked one" with two Dayton 10" 295-315's. This is a GREAT music sub for the money. And it could double as a coffee table. |
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| purplepeople |
Relax: I'm curious, have you decided what you're gonna do?
:)ensen. |
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| Relax |
I have decided to sell every piece of audio gear I own.
Nah just playin, I have an Infinity reference 1032w i just got, my third one. The other two are in a Decware Wicked one in my car, best car sub I have ever heard.
So I plan on doing a small sealed enclosure for the Infinity or a ported enclosure that fits under the bed and fires upward into the bed.
I am building prototypes soon, and will decide then. I also have a Decware "Death Box" I built I am going to try, i have a feeling it will win, but by how much will determine if I can spare the space for it.
My real focus is on the DIY Parthenon. I am prolly going to be attempting a mimicked design using some cheaper components and construction for the Parthenon. Hopefully using my Student or Educational discount for some stuff.
If I hadn't gotten the free Infinity, I would prolly be building a 4 sided cube with some 8 inchers, or maybe two satelite subs witht he apex jr. 8 incher. |
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| xstephanx |
upward firing into the bed rules, just make sure the port is firing up too. but yeah i did that once with two cheap, high fs 10s with low power (50w each) and a tiny box (2 cu ft for two tens ported!) but yeah it actually shook the bed like crazy when youre watching videos, the entire matress vibrates to explosions.
so i can speak from experience and say, go for it. |
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