| Christian |
I downloaded the new explorer and it worked fine a couple of days, then it crapped down.
I don't know whats wrong, but it takes about a minute to start the program.
So, I set out to reinstall the older 5.5 verion, but IE6 won't let me. All I get is a message when I that the system has detected a newer explorer and that the installation can't be done.
What shall I do??? how do I get rid of 6.0 ISP
/Chris |
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| kristijan-k |
Hello Christian,
Try to solve the problem with System Restore,
if your windows support it.
(start-programs-accessories-system tools-system restore)
It should take care it.
Best regards,
Kristijan Kljucaric
http://web.vip.hr/pcb-design.vip |
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| mbroker |
"Microsoft Internet Explorer 6" appears on my Add/Delete Prorgrams list in Win2kPro. It also shows up in Win98SE. Use this to uninstall IE6, which should then revert back to IE5.5, or whatever you had previously.
IE6 started some "intereting events" on my brother's computer, related to his "Web Trap" software and firewall. No clue if that was spurious of not, tho my brother did adamently blame me for *all* his subsequent computer follies.... :rolleyes:
Regards,
Mark Broker |
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| JasonL |
the reason your having this delay in explorer is because there is a file that is damaged but it is still useable. go to networking in start setting and add remove then to windows setup and remove dial up networking the reboot and do that proceedure again but install it. then reboot and all will be fixed but that is for win 98 and win98 se and me 2 k ill have to look it up for you if you need that let me knwo i can help.
Jason |
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| Christian |
Thanks a lot JasonL, it WORKS!!!
I did the reinstallment, an viola! I still don't know what went wrong, but who cares. My explorer works really smoooooth again.
I couldn't find explorer in the windows remove installed progs.
Anyway, thank you all you been a great help.
/Chris |
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| Christian |
well, guess what, same problem again!!!!
It started again, and whats whorse, I now seem to have gotten some kind of virus this time. It's a program that opens a Pop-Up every! time I start IE.
What shall I do. I have run System Mechanic and deleted everything suspicius, still the problem remains.
I'm going to run a search for files containing the URL to this pop-up but there isn't much I can do anymore. Starting to thinking about formatting and reinstall Win2000 all over.
Any ideas about how to deal with this??? |
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| Ken L |
But if I were you, I would format and reinstall - reinstalling only programs and features that you actually use, while first doing a full thorough scandisk or even a zero fill (some call this a low-level format)
IE is so deeply embedded in the operating system that once you have problems frequently the best thing is to just format and reinstall.
Depending on your usage, it's frequently not a bad idea to format and reinstall once a year - I never seem to make it a year.
I'm running Win2KPro and IE 5.00 - it does everything I want
I suggest doing only the security fixes-patches in terms of updates.
I now stay away from a MS product until at least the second Service Pack is out. :D
If you only add programs that you actually use and update when you have a true need to do so you'll be more hassle free.
Course, I'm prejudiced!
;)
Ken L |
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| JasonL |
as i was writeing up my little write up about uninstalling the networking and installing it i was pondering the fact that it was a viruse because virusees do remove and destroy your conection to open there own ports and ect things you should format and reinstall i use the tools to remove viruses but then yuor system is nver the same format reinstall windows. i know it is a pain but hey fresh clean install yea.. if need help let me know ill help ya inany way that i can..
Jason
and useualy when install a fresh install of widows is goes like this
windows> drivers> then Av ( norton the best.) then install programs one at a time.. i like to ghost my drives. system install fat32 then ghost then convert to ntfs is prefur.. |
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| roddyama |
Hi Chris,
I was having a simular problem after updating to IE6.0 on Win98SE. I tried everything including uninstalling IE completely, but it didn't stop the problem. I then decided to upgrade to Win2k since it is so stable on my work notebook. It wasn't easy (another story), but I got it loaded and the same problem started again, but worse.
Again, I tried for two weeks to fix it to no avail. Last week I upgraded my motherboard and processor from an FIC2013 and AMD K6-3 450 to a Gigabyte with an AMD Athlon 1800. I had to reload Win2k (again no fun), but the problem is gone and IE5.0 works fine. I have yet to get the nerve to "upgrade" to IE6.0.:eek: Don't know if I want to risk it.
I think my hardware just got too old for the software. They can only support so much backwards compatability before it gets to be too much. I don't know if this is of any help. I hope so.;)
Good Luck,
Rodd Yamashita |
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| planet10 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Ken L
But if I were you, I would format and reinstall - reinstalling only programs and features that you actually use, while first doing a full thorough scandisk or even a zero fill (some call this a low-level format) |
You gotta love windows. You have to jump thru so many hoops just to keep it behaving badly.
One of the reasons i don't do Windows, just not worth my time. I just stay away from the dark side.
dave
(very predudiced and opinionated Mac user, and now that its a UNIX box even more smug) |
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| sangram |
| quote: | Originally posted by planet10
You gotta love windows. You have to jump thru so many hoops just to keep it behaving badly |
Linux is a good desktop system if you don't run any professional apps or games.
I need to use Windows, I have both 98SE and 2kPro on the same machine, both run fine with no hiccups. 98SE runs without IE, i used 98 Lite to set up a small 98 system which only runs my games, and my full blown 2K install runs my Music Production software... |
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| Jean |
have you already tried running repair tool ?
start/run/ and paste this :
rundll32 setupwbv.dll,IE5Maintenance "C:\Program Files\Internet
Explorer\Setup\SETUP.EXE" /g "C:\WINDOWS\IE Uninstall Log.Txt" |
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| Christian |
Seems the pop-up is gone now? Haven't shown
today anyways :-) I ran the repaire tool, thanks Jean, and it runs pretty smoothe now, it doesn't hang every time I open a new window etc. But I don't know for how long.
There's still a delay of a couple of seconds everytime I start/open something from the Desktop. May this virus is still there lurking??
/chris |
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| Christian |
Hey! Just installed Ad Aware, a prog that cleans the computer of junk, adware and stuff. Works pretty good, no more delay and no pop ups either.
I'll set the programm to scan my computer once a day and maybe I'll be spared from this horrible bugs.
Best Regards
/chris |
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| Ken L |
I would still be running Linux, if it weren't for apps. I don't run any games
I have several different needs for sharing docs,etc. with others via e-mail.
I ran Linux for about 7 or 8 months and having to keep getting on another machine for various things was too much hassle.
While I'm not really keeping up, I'm hopeful that the open source community will bring in the ability to run PC programs on a Linux platform.
That's how I would like to run a 'puter if I could.
Ken L |
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| Lisandro_P |
I said it before and i'll say it again:
www.opera.com
Thank me later :D |
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| JasonL |
i say this WINDOWS SUX and mac is wining there respect more..
im buying mac to get away from all these problems.. YEAH plantet10..
you probably have a viruse you should get that looked at.. and adaware HAHAHA that is going to cause more problems that it is worth but hey its your computer not mine..
im just a tech so ido know what im talking about.. |
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| CharleyW |
Life is much simpler if you keep components on your system within the generation of the Operating System you're running, i.e., (pun intended) with Win 2000 = IE 5.5 or lower, Win 95 don't install Visual Studio 6 (that's when I made up this rule), etc.
The fact that XP shipped with IE 6 should be a clue.
Anybody on one of the hybrid versions (95,98,Me) is just waiting on a serious accident to happen. I have heard every excuse under the sun for not upgrading; most of them relate to bad habits (not saving license keys or original discs) and penoriousness (I propbably spelled that wrong; I mean being cheap). Oddly, the cheap ones can usually afford to do it but they think that the computer should last as long as the Vise-grip they inherited from their grandfather.
It won't.
Before anyone accuses me of bias, I have 2 Win 2K machines, 1 Linux, and 1 Win XP Pro.
My rant of the day is over. |
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| mbroker |
| quote: | Originally posted by Lisandro_P
I said it before and i'll say it again:
www.opera.com
Thank me later :D |
Have been for a year and a half now ;) Although there still is some "incompatibility problems" with some web sites that force me to use IE.... Usually the "only Flash" sites.
Clear the internet history, and dial down the cache to a few 10s of MB in the Internet Settings.
Uninstall all the software you don't use at least once every few months. Make sure to check the Program Files folder to verify the software was completely removed.
Clear all the contents in the /temp and windows/temp.
Run checkdisk, then defrag.
Also, stop installing every stupid piece of software you run across on the internet. :)
I thought that there was a Windows Emulator available for Linux already?
Mark Broker |
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| Lisandro_P |
| quote: | Originally posted by mbroker
Have been for a year and a half now ;) Although there still is some "incompatibility problems" with some web sites that force me to use IE.... Usually the "only Flash" sites. |
Yeah, i encontered some too, but since i installed Opera 6 i had NO compatibility issues with any site. I have the browser set to identify as MSIE5.0, that could help...
Good software. Once you get used to it, it makes you wonder why can't they all make it like that anymore. |
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| mbroker |
I have trouble with www.imprezawrx.com, and other sites that use flash for navigation, despite having flash installed properly in opera, and having it identify as IE5. I remember that opera didn't work properly with some job site, hotjobs.com, or something. I had emailed the webmaster about it, only to get a kurt reply that "opera isn't supported." A couple weeks later it was working flawlessly :)
The mail client still needs a bit work, IMHO, like sorting by thread.
I give it :up: :up:
Cheers,
Mark Broker |
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| planet10 |
I tried Opera. Certainly better than the fatties, but it is missing a couple crucial features for my work that still leaves iCab as my favourite web browser. Anyone on a Mac who hasn't tried it should (and the rest of you can suffer :D )
And i still use Eudora for email.
dave |
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| Ken L |
But IMHO Linux is the way to go.
I loaded Red Hat and ran a small network on it for a while and loved it - I only changed back to Windows due to a need to for compatiblity on document swaps.
Linux seemed smoother, more stable and more intuitive at syntax level -
Latest stats I saw were that about 60 percent of the webservers out there are Apache powered, and wouldn't be surprised if the numbers were higher now- Not to mention IBM, HP, and others that are releasing Enterprise editions for LInux
Again, I haven't looked at it in a while, but it seemed to me that the Open Source community was growing and prospering.
Sorry Dave (Planet 10), but I believe the world and the Internet would be a better place if we were all Linux based.
Of course I will admit that I'm prejudiced -
Ken |
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| planet10 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Ken L
Latest stats I saw were that about 60 percent of the webservers out there are Apache powered, |
I believe the number is greater
| quote: | | Sorry Dave (Planet 10), but I believe the world and the Internet would be a better place if we were all Linux based. |
You should note that some of the most vocal people switching to OS X (Apple's new open-source UNIX based OS) are Linux users. Finally a killer UI on a very solid UNIX that runs MS Office (POS that it is). And on hardware that is better than 99.99% of the Intel boxes (and the undisputed best laptops). I have nothing against Linux...
Go read (or watch the movies) testimonials of people who have switched. One of the more interesting is a fellow who started a very successful ISP in India based on Linux and is now writing an OS X switcher series for one of the Mac websites... i'll see if i can dig up the URL.
I believe the world and the Internet would be a better place if there weren't so many people using M$s mediocre brand of computing.
dave |
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| fdegrove |
Hi,
| quote: | | I only changed back to Windows due to a need to for compatiblity on document swaps. |
And that is where the problem lies for most of us and the corporate world:Compatibility.
Remember OS/2?
| quote: | | Latest stats I saw were that about 60 percent of the webservers out there are Apache powered, and wouldn't be surprised if the numbers were higher now- Not to mention IBM, HP, and others that are releasing Enterprise editions for LInux |
Doesn't really matter what you run on the server as long as your protocol can access it and the file systems are compatible.
One reason to run Apache on a webserver is that you can run it with very little hardware requirements.
Hell,I'm sure a half decent 486 with enough ram and discspace runs it just fine.
IBM has given it a major boost,makes me wonder how long Big Blue is going to let it run for free though.
| quote: | | Sorry Dave (Planet 10), but I believe the world and the Internet would be a better place if we were all Linux based. |
Don't kid ourselves: a Mac user is a different breed.Period.
No way you're going to convert this lot.;)
Cheers, |
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| planet10 |
| quote: | Originally posted by fdegrove
Don't kid ourselves: a Mac user is a different breed.Period. |
Thanks Frank... i've always considered being called normal denigrating...
| quote: | No way you're going to convert this lot.;)
|
1 user at a time :D
I think that we already have a higher percentage of Mac users on this forum than in the general population. That would jive with Douglas Adams (RIP) famous quote: "Even though Mac Users may be only 10% of the market, always remember that we are the TOP 10%!"
This is not just the ravings of another Mac Evangelist. There are studies that back up the contention that smarter people are more likely to use Macs.
And anyone who is really fiscally responsible will buy Macs because of the dramatically lower support costs. And anyone in a creative profession is crazy not to use Macs -- there is strong backup for shareholders suing any director of a creative organization that mandates a switch to PCs based solely on lack of fiduciary responsibility.
dave |
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| Ken L |
| quote: | Originally posted by planet10
I believe the number is greater
You should note that some of the most vocal people switching to OS X (Apple's new open-source UNIX based OS) are Linux users. Finally a killer UI on a very solid UNIX that runs MS Office (POS that it is). And on hardware that is better than 99.99% of the Intel boxes (and the undisputed best laptops). I have nothing against Linux...
I believe the world and the Internet would be a better place if there weren't so many people using M$s mediocre brand of computing.
dave |
I probably should have said Open Source rather than Linux - I do tend to think of them at the same time -
I haven't been keeping up with what's been going on the open source community so I'll check out OS X
thanks for the info
Ken |
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| fdegrove |
Ken,
Not another headbanging session please.
It isn't easy for any of us to keep up with that spinning wheel so don't you blame yourself.
I wouldn't,so why you?:rolleyes: |
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| pinkmouse |
| My Imac is now four years old...it's getting a bit clunky, and the hard drive is a little fragmented so I may have to do a clean install of the OS... For the first time in four(!!!) years:rolleyes: It's just too damn frequent for my liking! |
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| planet10 |
| quote: | Originally posted by pinkmouse
the hard drive is a little fragmented so I may have to do a clean install of the OS... |
Seems a little drastic. Why not just SpeedDisk it?
I used the same OS (with updates) across 4 machines (7200 to Beige G3) in 8 years. Just copied the old drive to the new drive and away i went. Finally installed fresh with the G4. (one downside of OS X is that it doesn't do this nearly as well).
dave |
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| pinkmouse |
| quote: | Seems a little drastic. Why not just SpeedDisk it?
|
A) I'm a cheapskate, and as I have never had need of Norton on my Mac (unlike my PCs!) I never bought it, and £80 seems like a lot for a disc optimiser.
B) It's probably a good time to get rid of four years worth of dodgy extensions, etc, and other bits of rubbish that have been accumulating on my hard drive! |
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| jean-paul |
Mozilla anyone ? For mac and pc. See www.mozilla.com.
Free, fast, compatible and no bloatware. |
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| fdegrove |
Hi,
If you don't have defragmenting software,actually copying files from one place to another and back again has the same effect.
You can't do it with files the os has open though.
Does any of you uses mirroring soft such has Ghost or Drive Image?
It is a lifesaver and if you make a backup once a month (or whatever policy suits you) you will be in business in about 10 to 15 minutes depending on the size of the partition.
Cheers,;) |
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| jean-paul |
Hi Frank,
You're right about defragging disks. Contrary popular belief Mac's suffer from defragmentation too. Maybe a bit more than pc's.
No this isn't an anti Mac slogan. I service Mac's and Speeddisk is a very nice tool for defragmentation of Mac's. After defragmenatation the machine is faster and less prone to errors.
I would not use Diskdoctor 6 / 7 though on systems with MacOS 9 or higher. I have reinstalled too many Mac's that were "repaired" by Diskdoctor. Mac's own disktool is better.
Norton Ghost is a fanastic tool and your claim about the time for restoring is true unless someone uses Windows XP ( good, but large ! Takes about 3 cd's ). Drive Image is another one that does its job well. There is a free tool I tried too but it wasn't comparable to Ghost nor Drive Image. Forgot the name.
Problem with Ghost is the cost. Every "ghosted" pc counts for one license. Especially in companies using Ghost will be expensive.
Best is burning the image on a cd together with a Win 98SE bootdisk. Than you can fdisk/format the disk and there will be cd support. In this way you can even "ghost" a newly bought disk that's not even formatted.
Newer versions of Ghost support burning cd's in DOS ! One can make a bootable diskette with only Ghost.exe on it. Boot with the diskette and just run Ghost.exe. Firewire is also supported in the newest version. Imagine burning a cd in DOS on an external Firewire burner !!! Ever tried ghosting over a network ? |
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| planet10 |
| quote: | Originally posted by jean-paul
You're right about defragging disks. Contrary popular belief Mac's suffer from defragmentation too. Maybe a bit more than pc's.
No this isn't an anti Mac slogan. I service Mac's and Speeddisk is a very nice tool for defragmentation of Mac's. After defragmenatation the machine is faster and less prone to errors. |
I'll second that. Speeddisk is an essential utility for the Mac (well worth the £80/$200 CAD). Under X the disk fragments even faster. The need to use Disk Doctor (or Disk Warrior) has gone to about 10% of what it was before the auto check was implemented after a crash (OS 8.6 i believe).
dave |
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| Electro |
Christian, when setting up a Windows computer. Split the hard drive into two partitions. Give 4 to 8 gigabytes to Windows only. The second partition will be for your data (documents, sounds, download files, audio pictures, etc). Second install Windows, drivers for your hardware, change the location for My Documents and Favorites, copy the CABS files from the CD to your hard drive, and install Norton Ghost. Then image only the windows drive. When something goes wrong you can alway re-image it and you are back up to a freshly Windows OS with your Favorites and My Documents intact. Then install your programs. The easy part is installing the programs.
Always have your anti-virus software running either in the background or scan the downloaded files every time. You can do both if you are very worried. Remember always update the anti-virus software. You can have as many anti-virus software installed but they can not run at the same time.
IE 6 does have spyware included. Use a third-party web browser and do a search on the internet to remove the spyware in IE 6. You need IE 6 to download updates. It is possible to download all the updates from Microsoft but each computer needs certain updates.
The only way I know of correcting a network problem is to remove all network drivers and modem with in the device manager. Then reboot. Upon booting into windows. Windows said it detected new hardware. Install the detected hardware but tell windows to only use the drivers that are located on your driver disk instead on the Windows drive (C). Windows will also tell it has to reboot in order for the drivers to work. Do what it tells you. This is for all Windows versions.
Never upgrade from a previous version of Windows to a higher version. For example Win98 --> Windows XP (upgrade). Ignore what Microsoft recommends and do a full installation.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
.| quote: | I would still be running Linux, if it weren't for apps. I don't run any games
I have several different needs for sharing docs,etc. with others via e-mail.
I ran Linux for about 7 or 8 months and having to keep getting on another machine for various things was too much hassle.
While I'm not really keeping up, I'm hopeful that the open source community will bring in the ability to run PC programs on a Linux platform.
That's how I would like to run a 'puter if I could.
Ken L |
Look at VMWare or BOCH. Either one can run Windows Applications this doesn't include games. VMWare simulates an Intel processor on a Intel based chipset. BOCH can simulate just about any brand of processor and chipset. BOCH is not stable as VMWare.
| quote: | | And anyone in a creative profession is crazy not to use Macs |
Look at Virtual Hideout to see what crazy people did their x86 computers.
I have MS IE 6 running right now as well as Netscape 4.78, Netscape 6 (Mozilla), Opera 6 on Win98. All of them starts up in a few seconds. Many people forget to defrag their hard drives every once a while. Remember like DOS, Windows is also messy storing files on a storage medium. Norton Speed Disk is better than Windows Defragger. Its also much, much faster. Norton Speed Disk came with my Norton Utilities 2001 that cost US $50. I feel bad for those that had to pay hefty price tag.
About OS X, its not true UNIX/LINUX. UNIX/LINUX users had a hard time customizing by the config files (fstab, rc, ...). OS X ignores the config files and uses its own. If you want true LINUX get Redhat, Mandrake, SUSE, Slackware, Debian or any distro on DistroWatch. I'm sorry Planet10, but Apple advertised wrong. |
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| planet10 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Electro
About OS X, its not true UNIX/LINUX. UNIX/LINUX users had a hard time customizing by the config files (fstab, rc, ...). OS X ignores the config files and uses its own....I'm sorry Planet10, but Apple advertised wrong. |
I don't know enuff to know how the config files don't make OS X a true UNIX (LINUS is not a true UNIX) or what defines a true UNIX, but it is one really solid kick-*** OS (and it is continuously getting better), and is now the largest installed base of UNIX.
And certainly the only UNIX that someone would get for their (average) mom (i don't know whether the iMac Bill Gates bought for his mom is running X).
dave |
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| jean-paul |
MacOS X is FreeBSD ( www.freebsd.org ) with a shell from Apple. Fact not fiction. MacOS X Jaguar is based on FreeBSD 4.5. Real UNIX as you can see.
It is called Darwin at Apple's and is available for X86 pc as well. Without the Aqua shell that is, unfortunately !!!!
MacOS X probably is the best OS in the world. It has the looks and the power.
What bothers me as a Mac service technician is that former MacOS 9.xx users that enjoyed their OS and not even could spell the name UNIX now all seem to embrace MacOS X ( It's UNIX you know ! ). Worse is that a lot of them now are complaining about the memory management and stability in MacOS 9.xx ! Things that if they came from the mouth of a pc owner could cause a verbal war. One of the reasons Apple developed MacOS X is the less than optimal memory management in their former OSes.
Unices are the best OSes when stability or security are concerned.
Both on pc's and Mac's. User friendliness was not the best until now, something Apple has solved very good with Aqua. |
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| fdegrove |
Hi,
| quote: | | Best is burning the image on a cd together with a Win 98SE bootdisk |
If the pc supports the cd-drive in bios you can work even faster by making the cd bootable using a floppy image.
On that image you can also provide for a ramdrive and load whatever you need there.
Since the copy was done on a sector by sector and bite by bite basis you dont have to prepare the disk in any way since everything is going to be overwritten anyway.
One program I often use for this (at home) is Drive Image 5.0
from Powerquest (remember Partition Magic?).
It has a driver that emulates a 2.88 Mb floppy in memory that you can edit to you hearts' content.
It also a lot faster then Ghost.
So whenever you decide to do a backup you just launch the program from within the OS and it will then reboot to DOS and launch itself.
Images can then be written to CD format and split to user defined sizes.
I take a complete shot of a full install whit all SP's and all updates for OS and any other soft that I have installed.
I find installing software such as MS Offfice 2000 such a PITA and too time consuming to not include it.
If not you're often busy for half a day going through piles of cds' and arranging thing to how you like them.
Re defragmentation:
Here is what I do to avoid fragmentation and for safety purposes as well in case thing go wrong:
On Win2K: make several partitions :
One containing OS and required software.
Another for the swapfile and IE internet cache and e-mail.
And another one where you store data and any other stuff you temporaly put there.
Also for the Win98 and Millenium users Diskeeper Lite is available at Executive Softwares' site for free and works a lot better and faster then Speeddisk incorporated in these OSs'.
Cheers,;) |
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| Ken L |
a little bit when I was running linux
I could always do most everything I want in DOS -
And for win98se and prior - ever since drive costs came down I have never fooled with Ghost, drive copy or similar
Boot to a prompt and run
xcopy C:*.* D: /E /C /H /R /K /Y
and that will clone win9x drives right over to a destination partition ( D in this case) - quick, simple, much faster than tape or CD storage -
Right now win2Kpro is doing what I want, it's quick and stable. Since it's not running on a DOS platform, I don't have the flexiblity and ability to work from a command prompt as I have had in the past.
When I change OS I'm going to go with an open source platform where I will make the effort to learn what is necessary to function at a command prompt.
I think there has been some good info in this thread that I'll take to heart and check out.
ken |
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| fdegrove |
Hi,
One major problem when cloning older versions of Win9X under DOS is the lack of support for long file names.
Therefore I used a little proggie called DOSLNFBK that would collect all long names into a database using a batchfile that specified what partitions to search.
For restores you would then use it in reverse.
It was a little masterpiece and moreover it was 100% freeware.
In later incarnations it suported FAT32 filesystems as well.
Xcopy is only useable when running DOS based OSs' and won't even see a NTFS filesystem.
It has a host of other limitations that progs such as Ghost and Drive Image overcome.
Drivecopy is only useful for copying to another HD.It doesn't offer the freedom the others do.
Ken,
These programms save a lot of time especially for the pro when you need network support and removable media such as CDR,CDRW,Iomega drives etc.
On top of that they usually have an option to use the Bios INT 13 address line giving them fast access to drive and media.
If using scsi gear this can then reach speeds of 40Mb/s on a single volume.
With multiple disk packs on raid controller(s) these programs become even more usefull.
One caveat though: IMO none of these support dynamic volumes as you can build in software on W2K server.
In that case only a complete disaster recovery using expensive backup up software (Veritas) and a streamer can save you.
Other than that,it is good to see people still appreciating the power of good ole DOS.;)
See you, |
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| Ken L |
| quote: | Originally posted by fdegrove
Xcopy is only useable when running DOS based OSs' and won't even see a NTFS filesystem.
|
I know.
I'm not going to be comfortable with an OS where I cannot work at a syntax level - so I'll go with an open sourced base OS
Thanks for the info
Ken |
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| Lisandro_P |
| Well, i found it reassuring to have a shell underneath all to do stuff like that quickly, easy and and painlessly. Most people *****ed about win95/98 "running" over DOS (i did), and it's surely nice to have a nifty desktop running, but in the long run you find out how much time it saves. |
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| fdegrove |
Ken,
| quote: | | I'm not going to be comfortable with an OS where I cannot work at a syntax level - so I'll go with an open sourced base OS |
Just me trying to protect you from an impulsive swing:
Doing so will not solve the problem but inevitably bring others along with it.
Not to mention the lurning curve and the lack of corporate support.
Cheers,;) |
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| planet10 |
| quote: | Originally posted by fdegrove
Therefore I used a little proggie called DOSLNFBK that would collect all long names into a database using a batchfile that specified what partitions to search. |
One thing that amazes me as this thread continues is all the little pieces of software are needed to do things that just seem natural (and are built-in) to the MacOS, the older ones or X.
It is no wonder that support staff for a Windoz-based organization outnumber the staff for a mac-based one 10-1.
dave |
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| fdegrove |
Hi,
Quite a lot of the possibilties are actually there and often far more than people actually realize.
The most important tool however is experience and the will to learn.
This was especially true when Win95 came out.
Once you'd wrestled through that all that followed was a natural progression.
Still to this day I think that NT4 in its' latest reincarnations is a very good system.
Win2K however offers possibilities with software that used to require a vast investment on hardware,rendering 80% of the functionality of a raid controller redundant overnight is no small feat.
I'm not defending Microsoft here it's just that they had that brillant sense of economics Steve Jobbs never saw.
After all tens of thousands of people are making a good living supporting this oh so flawed OS.
(Note the irony.)
Looking at it that way I can only welcome competition but so far nobody had the same clout.
Majors such as IBM tried but failed,too bad but it is the truth.
Open source,Linux, BSD you name it is not going to change that overnight.
Running a Mac was always a mystery to me since I did not know what to do short of installing everything afresh.
I'm pretty much convinced the system is not perfect either despite what enthusiasts may claim.
Looking at another aspect that is very important to a lot of people and quite likely the number one reason for the succes of the PC is that you can upgrade hardware quite easily and you can easily put together your own machine without too much technical knowledge.
Were I to work for the graphical sector,I'd say the Mac still offers advantages but not as much as say 15 years ago.
What I like about the Mac though is that it is easy to work with and quite likely require less attention to run (although when it goes South I'ld be at a total loss).
Oh well,;) |
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| Ken L |
| quote: | Originally posted by fdegrove
protect you from an impulsive swing:
Not to mention the lurning curve and the lack of corporate support.
|
Not impulse - I really did like Linux - and have been saying I ought to go back to it long before I came across DIYAUDIO - learning curve wasn't a problem - Corporate support is not an issue to me - I never use it anyhow:D
Ken |
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| planet10 |
| quote: | Originally posted by fdegrove
The most important tool however is experience and the will to learn.
Running a Mac was always a mystery to me since I did not know what to do short of installing everything afresh. |
With 18 years Mac experience (my original 128 (upgraded to the max) holds up one corner of my coffee table) i know that with pre-X OSs there is hardly ever a situation where you need to start fresh. Now with X i'm starting a fresh learning curve as far as the guts go, the UI even thou quite different in many ways falls to hand quite quickly.
| quote: | | Were I to work for the graphical sector,I'd say the Mac still offers advantages but not as much as say 15 years ago. |
Creative organizations would still be crazy to not use Macs. 1 simple statistic. Macs 27 billable hours in a 40 hr week (and this was with the Classic OS), vrs 18 for PCs (and a large number of the missing 9 hrs have the artist type, watching the IT type fix their computer).
There is no perfect OS (and there never will be), but Mac OS X with its marriage of a UI evolved from the classic Mac OS sitting on top of the industrial strength UNIX developed originally for the NeXT, and a pdf imaging model, with excellent OpenGL support built-in is as good as it gets for day-to-day use in 2002. And the native development environment, derived from NeXT-Step allows developers to get aps out in a fraction of the time it takes for Windows (or Classic Mac OS for that matter). Couple that with all the UNIX aps waiting for an Aqua-face and we should see aps just keep coming (i'd love to get involved [or funded] to do a killer audio ap).
And it is only at version 1.2.1 with Apple working like crazy to improve it.
As to hardware, it is true that Apple's full OS only runs on Macs* (Darwin runs on almost everything), but that isn't too much of a hardship considering that the quality of the hardware is 1st rate and not really equalled by any box wearing the "Intel Inside" warning label.
*Apple (is reputed to) keep a fully up-to-date version of X running on Intel, ostensibly to help weed out bugs, but if it ever turns to their advantage to release it you could have X for Intel in the time it takes to put together a killer ad campaign.
dave
(Note: the author of this message is VERY biased, and he thinks with good reason) |
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| sangram |
Uh, oh, another Mac-PC thing?
PC (as in Wintels) are mass machines, with the problems and economies of scale.
Macs are not, and that has another set of good and bad.
All good. I use both, and find that both have their good and bad. |
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| planet10 |
| quote: | Originally posted by sangram
All good. I use both, and find that both have their good and bad. |
Are you on X yet?:D
dave |
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| sangram |
:( Unfortunately, no. :( My bosses won't let me buy any new Macs till bottomlines come up by 50%. Recession...
We have, however, got in three new Wintel Machines. The less said the better.
Unfortunately, the support for Mac machines around here is pretty pathetic. When we need it, that is. |
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| sangram |
| quote: | Originally posted by planet10
... *Apple (is reputed to) keep a fully up-to-date version of X running on Intel, ostensibly to help weed out bugs, but if it ever turns to their advantage to release it you could have X for Intel in the time it takes to put together a killer ad campaign... |
Well, I'd be interested to know what kind of timeframe THAT is. I'd like a few months, with a shoot in the Honduras.
(I'm in advertising by day, soooo...) |
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| planet10 |
| quote: | Originally posted by sangram
:( Unfortunately, no. :( My bosses won't let me buy any new Macs till bottomlines come up by 50%. Recession... |
X is a whole new ball-game. It completely transforms your Mac (mostly for the better -- X still has some rough edges, but they are working on them -- 10.2.2 shipped yesterday, my Update control panel told me it was there, i clicked the update button, it automatically downloaded it from the net and installed itself while i was working away on other things, reboot and i'm up-to-date!
Doesn't take a new Mac to run X, anything from a Beige G3 on will run it.
dave |
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| planet10 |
| quote: | Originally posted by sangram
Well, I'd be interested to know what kind of timeframe THAT is. I'd like a few months, with a shoot in the Honduras. |
:)
We won't know until it is on us, but i think we'll have to see a slip by someone else (or a bold move to lose Windows by some big PC manufacturer) before Apple pulls the rabbit out of the hat.
dave |
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| Ken L |
Will take a while to get a drive ready to put it on.
:D
Ken |
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| sangram |
| quote: | Originally posted by planet10
... (or a bold move to lose Windows by some big PC manufacturer) before Apple pulls the rabbit out of the hat.
dave |
That time may be sooner than any one of us thinks. Windows is being rapidly replaced by Linux in the Corporate and Server Market, and the e-Mac and $200 LinTel PC may cause M$ to do some serious re-thinking... Compaq (though not a good enough example) has already started offering PCs with a Linux option (that are about $100 cheaper). |
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| sangram |
| quote: | Originally posted by Ken L
Will take a while to get a drive ready to put it on.
:D
Ken |
I'm interested in knowing how that turns out. The biggest single factor in Linux's way are professional applications, or rather, the lack of Linux versions of professional applications - photo editing, sound and music recording and composition, 3D modelling, animation...
Linux needs to start getting support in a big way from other vendors if it is to grow. I guess it's OK for the home market on one hand and the server market on the other, it can also be easily used on the corporate desktop, but not by the professional user (I imagine a large proportion of this audience would be on Macs or alternative hardware anyway, so supporting Linux may not be on the agenda for the developers in the first place...)
Hey, this is a audio forum. Why are we discussing tech in here? :cool: Whatever goes... :) |
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| JasonL |
so far i have used and liked the following
mandrake all versions they just get better i can see mandrake becoming a desktop lots of utilities and help menues for support and ect
Redhat was good but i didnt like it no utilities and the one program i like that mandrake had that redhat didnt was hard drake ( witch is a hard ware finder and installer )
iv tryed turbo linux kinda cool looking
os-x jaguar mac ( witch is what im running now
os 9
windows 95 , 98 me 2000 win2000 server windows xp corp profesional
bsd all versions.
and probably more. i guess ill be talking to planet 10 alot soon when i get my mac for help. im using my girl friends i book verry nice of her to let me use it for my audio stuff. and email but i ssee that i need more power so ya im getting a dual prossessor g4 i SO CANT WAIT eheh
Jaosn |
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| Ken L |
| quote: | Originally posted by sangram
I'm interested in knowing how that turns out. The biggest single factor in Linux's way are professional applications, or rather, the lack of Linux versions of professional applications - photo editing, sound and music recording and composition, 3D modelling, |
It'll be several weeks or more but I'll post my results - I'm running two boxes, I've got one of those promised out as soon as I build the P4 and mobo that I've got sitting here, then I'll get a P933 I think it is, back in that is running fine - that's what I figure I'll set up Linux on - I'm hopeful that Red Hat has most of the hardware drivers with the package- Then I hope that the native RedHat win emulation will take care of all I need - That can be my surfer box and I'll still have a Win2Kpro box I can use for apps, etc.
Ken |
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| fdegrove |
Hi,
| quote: | | I'm hopeful that Red Hat has most of the hardware drivers with the package- Then I hope that the native RedHat win emulation will take care of all I need |
Hardware support was always one of the reasons I never really went for it.
Software support being another.
Does this OS support MP?
Thx, |
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| Ken L |
ummm,whachha mean by MP??
I didn't have a real problem with drivers before but they didn't just load right up either.
Applications is the only reason I ever left Linux. However, now that I am semi-retired my need for applications is much less. Plus, I think WIN emulation is a good bit further along
With Linux there's no need for all the rebooting and formatting, etc. Plus it was rock solid and fast.
Another major thing to me is that I feel very comfortable with a command line OS. I am preparing now to move away from Win2KPro - If I'm going to learn new syntax, I would prefer it to be non MS
Ken |
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| jean-paul |
| Multi Processing ? More than 1 CPU in your box. |
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| Ken L |
Yep sure does support Multi-processing -
Actually, Linux takes less resources than win systems do for multiprocessing environment -
I really have thought for some time that applications is the only area in which MS leads the open source community.
Ken |
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| dlharmon |
Redhat 8 even comes with OpenOffice (star office based) that can open all those MS office files. I downloaded it the day after it was released, and I think it is the best yet.. I only boot the M$ virus now to run spice because I haven't found anything for linux.
Darrell Harmon |
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| Ken L |
You're motivating me to burn the ISO's I D/L and install them.
I need to burn them and do the checksums, but I doubt I'll have time to do anything else till after Thanksgiving at the earliest.
BTW, in what part of Tenn are you located??
Are you a tube guy?? or mostly SS
Ken |
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| fdegrove |
Hi,
| quote: | | Actually, Linux takes less resources than win systems do for multiprocessing environment |
That's why I asked,MP is not really a strong point on W2K pro,the Server version is better at that.
My machine all run W2K and other then big hogs such as Photoshop and Premiere you really don't notice much difference.
Other that,I can't reallly complain.
I find it a lot easier to work with then NT4 and all the hardware gets installed and updated without a reboot.
Only security updates and SPs' require that to be activated.
What I don't quite understand is why you're complaining about formatting taking up so much time.
It's a lot faster then it ever was especially if you're running 36GB disks as I do here.
Ciao,;) |
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| Ken L |
MS systems, I would have to format several times a year to keep it running smooth -
Takes a good while to redo your settings and reload software, etc.
Now when I build a clean configuration I just clone it over to another drive - then when the config I'm running on gets buggy, I just format the partition and clone that config back on another machine.
I would rather not fool with having to do that and did not have similar problems when I was running Linux.
Later
Ken |
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| fdegrove |
Ken,
When you do a clone and then a restore there is no need to format.
The mere fact that a clone is a sector to sector,byte to byte image will take care of that on the fly.
I never had to format again since I did the first install over two years ago and these are pretty complex machines.
Once you have your boot partition running all others can then be reformatted in the background if you whish to do so.
I also find the latest NTFS incarnation to be very smooth and fast in operation.
Ciao,;) |
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| Ken L |
Well, yeah uhh
I fully prep every time I build a configuration - up to and including a "zero fill" format - some call it low level format -
All neat and tidy;)
Not necessary, I know.
I do think that as drives have gotten larger and density increased on the platter there is more opportunity for errors:xeye:
Probably is the obsessive compulsive part of my personality coming to the fore as much as anything
Later
Ken |
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| pinkmouse |
Ken,
Obsessive compulsive, and cynical, mmm, so tell me about your childhood...:D :D
{My degree in psychology coming to the fore:rolleyes: ) |
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| Ken L |
Actually, I did have some things to sort out there - ADHD diagnosed, OC as a personality type - not a disorder.
With all that sorting said and done for decades now - I am one of the happiest people that I know, and have a very rich appreciation of people and life.
BTW, the skeptical/cynical identity crisis that I continually struggle with comes mostly from my business background -
And you, Pinkmouse? Somewhere within the depths of my varied and ADHD riddled mind I remember having come across statements to the general effect that many (most?) drawn to the field of Psychology and Psychiatry are drawn due to the feelings of need for themselves?
Actually, it has been quite interesting for me to note that you and I often share common opinions on what is sometimes unusual situations.
Perhaps you could check my e-mail and take care of other business for me when I am on holiday?
:rolleyes:
Ken |
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| fdegrove |
Hi,
I noticed this before:you two must be clones.
A rather little known disorder in the medical world with quite a bit of related minor disorders and consequences for the person suffering from it.
With the right medication this is not cured but say subdued.
I think far more people suffer from this than we realize.
A good friend suffered from this for years without realizing it,he's a smart guy but easily overloaded by his environment.
Once he takes medication I hardly recognize him,he feels better that way but he's not the same bright guy I know he can be.
Thought I'd share this, |
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| Ken L |
I didn't really need any meds for ADHD till I was over fifty.
The coping skills I had developed deserted me.
After a roller coaster ride of doctor of the month and medication of the month, I do much better without any medication for ADHD.
I eat mostly shrimp, fish, sushi and dairy products - I stay away from processed foods - I take a good vitamin regime and try to run a couple of miles three or four times a week - I feel the best I have in years -
I do have some minor side effects from some other meds I take, at times I can be anywhere from a little unfocused to _very_ unfocused.
Although I'm doing great, I'm not the same bright guy I used to be either ;)
But such is life
Ken |
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| pinkmouse |
| quote: | | And you, Pinkmouse? Somewhere within the depths of my varied and ADHD riddled mind I remember having come across statements to the general effect that many (most?) drawn to the field of Psychology and Psychiatry are drawn due to the feelings of need for themselves? |
Yup!!:) , but 6 years on the road in Rock'n'roll cleared me of that!
Sorry, Ken, didn't mean to be so close to the bone with my joke, I have a good friend with bad ADHD, and I understand a little of what it is like.
Frank- I have a vision from a famous movie, 2000 men sitting on a hill, one stands up and says "I am Pinkmouse/KenL" then another and another...
;) |
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| Ken L |
| quote: | Originally posted by pinkmouse
didn't mean to be so close to the bone with my joke;) |
Not really, I have several friends that are pyschotherapists and have heard that more than once:)
What instrument did you play??
Another interesting parallal -
I started playing base in honky tonks when I was 15, played weekends on the road with a rock and roll band for several years when I was in high school- then my senior year in high school took a club job 6 nights a week - was in the local club scene as a sideman for 5 or 6 or years until I got married, had kids, and took a day job. I have always missed playing a little bit. I have never missed the nightclub scene in the slightest.
Do you still make any music??
Later
Ken |
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| pinkmouse |
Hi Ken
Altough I play Rythym guitar a little, I was more of a backline tech and noise boy when I started out.
Then I got into lighting design, and moved into corporate work, it pays better:) .
Yes I miss gigging a little, but certainly not touring, it was knackering being on the road for 6-8 weeks at a time, doing the same old thing night after night...
I still do the odd project for my old rock'n'roll mates, for instance I lit a certain wedding that happened in Ireland earlier this year:cool:
Below is a little piccie ( the first one that came to hand after the reinstallation noted earlier in this thread) of the kind of thing I do... |
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| planet10 |
| quote: | Originally posted by pinkmouse
I was more of a backline tech and noise boy when I started out. |
I did a bit of spot roadie work at uni... certainly don't miss humping the B3.
Then when i was trying to develop my own PA system, i got to be a roadie again, and occasional sound man.
| quote: | | Below is a little piccie ( the first one that came to hand after the reinstallation noted earlier in this thread) of the kind of thing I do... |
What is that? Some sort of dynamic adverts in the underground?
dave |
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| pinkmouse |
Mmm B3s, great sound, very heavy...
That was an exhibition stand for Sony Broadcast and Professional, in Asterdam a few years ago, here is a better one-
Dave , have you had any experience with IPnetshareX, I'm having a few problems getting it to work? |
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| planet10 |
| quote: | Originally posted by pinkmouse
That was an exhibition stand for Sony Broadcast and Professional, in Asterdam a few years ago, here is a better one- |
Tradeshow booths -- that is a nice area of endeavor. I'll keep that in mind should HD3D rise from dormancy and we need a booth.
| quote: | | have you had any experience with IPnetshareX, I'm having a few problems getting it to work? |
We use it to access the AppleShare server at the puter shop i work part-time (i didn't set it up thou)... contact me privately and we'll see if i can help you work it out. Probably force me to do the Firmware upgrade on my Firewall (i have been sitting on for months) so that we can actually try it out.
dave |
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| fdegrove |
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------
Title: Cumulative Patch for Internet Explorer (Q328970)
Date: 20 November 2002
Software: Internet Explorer
Impact: Execute commands on a user's system
Max Risk: Important
Bulletin: MS02-066
Microsoft encourages customers to review the Security Bulletins at:
http://www.microsoft.com/security/s...ns/ms02-066.asp
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/se...n/MS02-066.asp.
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------
Issue:
======
This is a cumulative patch that includes the functionality of all
previously released patches for IE 5.01, 5.5 and 6.0. In addition,
it eliminates the following six newly discovered vulnerabilities:
- - A buffer overrun vulnerability that occurs because Internet
Explorer does not correctly check the parameters of a PNG graphics
file when it is opened. To the best of Microsoft's knowledge, this
vulnerability could only be used to cause Internet Explorer to
fail. The effect of exploiting the vulnerability against Internet
Explorer would be relatively minor - the user would only need to
restart the browser to restore normal operation. However, a number
of other Microsoft products - notably, most Microsoft Office
products and Microsoft Index Server - rely on Internet Explorer to
render PNG files, and exploiting the vulnerability against such an
application would cause them to fail as well. Because of this,
Microsoft recommends that customers install this patch regardless
of whether they are using Internet Explorer as their primary web
browser.
- - An information disclosure vulnerability related to the way that
Internet Explorer handles encoded characters in a URL. This
vulnerability could allow an attacker to craft a URL containing
some encoded characters that would redirect a user to a second web
site. If a user followed the URL, the attacker would be able to
piggy-back the user's access to the second website. This could
allow the attacker to access any information the user shared with
the second web site.
- - A vulnerability that occurs because under certain circumstances
Internet Explorer does not correctly check the component that the
OBJECT tag calls. This could allow an attacker to obtain the name
of the Temporary Internet Files folder on the user's local machine.
The vulnerability would not allow an attacker to read or modify
any files on the user's local system, since the Temporary Internet
Files folder resides in the Internet security zone. Knowledge of
the name of the Temporary Internet Files folder could allow an
attacker to identify the username of the logged-on user and read
other information in the Temporary Internet Files folder such as
cookies.
- - Three vulnerabilities that although having differing root causes,
have the same net effects. All three vulnerabilities result
because of incomplete security checks being carried out when using
particular programming techniques in web pages, and would have the
effect of allowing one website to access information in another
domain, including the user's local system. This could enable the
web site operator to read, but not change, any file on the user's
local computer that could be viewed in a browser window. In
addition, this could also enable an attacker to invoke an
executable that was already present on the local system.
In addition, the patch sets the Kill Bit on a legacy DirectX
ActiveX control which has been retired but which has a security
vulnerability. This has been done to ensure that the vulnerable
control cannot be reintroduced onto users' systems and ensures
that users who already have the control on their system are
protected. This is discussed further in Microsoft Knowledge Base
Article 810202.
The patch also makes a further refinement to cross domain
verification check that was first introduced in Internet Explorer
Service Pack 1.
Mitigating Factors:
====================
With the exception of the Malformed PNG Image File Failure, there
are common mitigating factors across all of the vulnerabilities:
- - The attacker would have to host a web site that contained a web
page used to exploit the particular vulnerability.
- - The attacker would have no way to force users to visit the site.
Instead, the attacker would need to lure them there, typically by
getting them to click on a link that would take them to the
attacker's site.
- - By default, Outlook Express 6.0 and Outlook 2002 open HTML mails
in the Restricted Sites Zone. In addition, Outlook 98 and 2000
open HTML mails in the Restricted Sites Zone if the Outlook Email
Security Update has been installed. Customers who use any of these
products would be at no risk from an e-mail borne attack that
attempted to exploit these vulnerabilities.
In addition to there are a number of individual mitigating factors:
Malformed PNG Image File Failure
- - Internet Explorer and other affected applications such as
Microsoft Office and Microsoft Index Server could be successfully
restarted after the failure.
- - Microsoft has not identified a method by which this buffer
overrun can be used to execute code of the attacker's choice on
the user's system.
- - This vulnerability is not present in Internet Explorer 6 Service
Pack 1.
Encoded Characters Information Disclosure
- - The vulnerability would not enable an attacker to read, modify
or execute any files on the local system.
Temporary Internet Files folder Name Reading
- - An attacker could not use this vulnerability to read, delete or
modify any files on the user's local system other than information
contained in the Temporary Internet Files folder.
- - An attacker could only exploit this vulnerability by having a
user visit a malicious web site and then follow a malformed link
on this malicious web site to a second web site that the user
trusted.
- - This vulnerability is not present in Internet Explorer 6 Service
Pack 1.
Frames Cross Site Scripting, Cross Domain Verification via Cached
Methods & Improper Cross Domain Security Validation with Frames
- - The vulnerabilities would only allow an attacker to read files
on the user's local system that can be rendered in a browser
window, such as image files, HTML files and text files.
- - The vulnerabilities would not provide any way for an attacker to
put a program of their choice onto another user's system.
- - An attacker would need to know the name and location of any file
on the system to successfully invoke it.
- - The vulnerabilities could only be used to view or invoke local
executables. It could not be used to create, delete, or modify
arbitrary or malicious files.
Risk Rating:
============
- - Important
Patch Availability:
===================
- - A patch is available to fix this vulnerability. Please read the
Security Bulletin at
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/se...in/ms02-066.asp
for information on obtaining this patch.
Just to make you aware of yet another loophole in the Mickeysoft department.
Oh well,next one may be a Mac.:confused:
Ciao.:cool: |
|
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| pinkmouse |
| quote: | | Oh well,next one may be a Mac. |
Go for it Frank, you know it makes sense!:cool:
Dave, thanks, I will be in touch as soon as I have some free time! |
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| fdegrove |
Hi,
I think in reality it isn't as bad as I make it out.
Come to think of it,I've been a professional user since 1992 and I just haven't got a clue how the public perceive all these updates.
To me Win2K does all I can possibly ask for and then some,yet I'm curious how many of you changed from PC to Mac and why?
What about hardware?
SCSI still in the Mac?
I ask because I swear by that standard no matter what serial IDE may bring SCSI disks are so reliable I haven't had any hardware failure for at least five years.
Not to mention the shear speed and transfer rates these can yield.
Thoughts?
Ciao,;) |
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| pinkmouse |
| quote: | | To me Win2K does all I can possibly ask for and then some,yet I'm curious how many of you changed from PC to Mac and why? |
For me, it was simple ease of use, I ran various Amigas for about 8 years, then bought an Imac to run my business on.
At that time most people were running Win95 on PCs, and my experience at work was that you had to spend half your time fixing drivers and other software nonsense, rather than working. I actually ran two PC laptops for a while, and after the second was stolen, I gave up on PCs, even though a lot of specific design software I use was only available on PC, I could still use it at the companies I worked for, and could just carry around a CDR with all my data on it.
With Mac, there is very little system stuff to be done, most of it takes care of itself, and is very transparent to the user, you don't have to spend hours searching for stuff everytime you upgrade, and end up reconfiguring your entire system, I found this with 95, 98, SE, ME and 2k, all of which I have used.
To be honest, even though most current Macs use IDE, it is more than fast enough for anything I wish to do, and I belive most computers are now faster than will ever be used by 95% of the population.
Yes, it is frustrating at the lack of software support in some areas, but then I think, I have a machine that boots in half the time of a Win2k machine, will run for weeks without crashing, and at 3 1/2 years old still does everything I can throw at it.
:cool: |
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| fdegrove |
Hi,
| quote: | | At that time most people were running Win95 on PCs |
Sure,those were transitionary years changing from Win 3.X to 95 but those days are long gone.
W2K takes good care of itself as well and I haven't expereinced a crash in years.
Not that it is perfect but it is a far cry form W95,even NT4.
The major problem with it is nor as much W2K itself but apparent incompatibilities with the XP driver and code models.
This can cause trouble when people update software.
| quote: | | I found this with 95, 98, SE, ME and 2k, all of which I have used. |
Let's be fair: with Windows 2000 I never have to look for a single driver disk.It may not be the latest but I can always upgrade by doing a system update online.
| quote: | | I belive most computers are now faster than will ever be used by 95% of the population. |
The need for speed and graphics card with blazing speeds are the main thriving forces for development,gamers you know.;)
| quote: | | To be honest, even though most current Macs use IDE |
Although I love a responsive and fast machine, speed comes second to reliability in my book hence my preference for SCSI disks and peripherals.
| quote: | | I have a machine that boots in half the time of a Win2k |
W2K is not a fast booter but I only boot it once a day so not much of a priority for me.
Cheers and thx,;) |
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| planet10 |
| quote: | Originally posted by fdegrove
yet I'm curious how many of you changed from PC to Mac and why? |
I switched before there was Windows. Was doing Desktop publishing a year before Brainerd invented the term, helped beta test PageMaker 1 (a reason to switch to Mac right there), and PhotoShop 1.
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What about hardware?
SCSI still in the Mac? |
The hardware is outstanding. Build quality 2nd to none. Industrial design PCs only wish they could aspire to.
Although the majority of users will find an iMac or eMac just fine, Frank will need a G4 tower.
Built-in, dual processors (0.87, 1.0, 1.25 GHz) with vector processing units, support for 2 monitors (AGPx4), firewire, USB (only 1.1 so far), sound in & out. 4 free PCI slots (this is where you put your adaptec SCSI card), 2 IDE buses & room for 4 drives (and built-in support for RAID 0 or 1), CD-R/DVD reader or DVD-R, space for another removable media drive (these are on a 3rd IDE bus), 1000BaseT, modem, AirPort (this is amazing on the PowerBooks -- surfing from the couch).
The OS is FreeBSD 4.x with a Mach kernal, pdf display imaging (anything you print can be saved as a pdf), 1st rate OpenGL, a gorgeous and well thot out GUI heavily evolved from the mating of the classic Mac GUI & NeXTstep, and a native development environment that is unequaled (an ancestor of which was used to develop the 1st incarnations of the world-wide-web -- by a non-programmer). And built-in software to support the classic Mac OS, even a 68k emulator so that you can run many a program from before the PowerPC -- i still occasionally fire up Daleks)
Any more questions, fire em at me, i'll be happy to try to answer.
dave |
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| jean-paul |
| quote: | | The hardware is outstanding. Build quality 2nd to none. Industrial design PCs only wish they could aspire to. |
Hello Dave,
Please come off your cloud. I never had so much hardware failures with pc's as with Mac G4's. Memory, mainboard and power supply errors are common. Anybody that has owned a beige G3 can tell you about the on board SCSI card with its peculiarities.Agreed, nowadays series are better than ever but don't exagerate the build quality. In my company Dell pc's have far less hardware errors than Mac's. Software errors are higher though. Tasks that are performed with pc's are much broader whereas the Mac's are practically only used for graphical / layout jobs.
Industrial pc's are far more reliable. I also work with Sun hardware, I have never seen any defect in the 3 or 4 years they *continuously* run till now. Although a Mac-pc battle can be fun, please separate facts from fiction.
Jean-Paul |
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| pinkmouse |
Jean-Paul
You must have the exception then, most studies show cost of ownership and downtime much less on a Mac than PC...
Check out this link summary page, ( one of many! )
http://138.202.192.14/~trembath/smon/tco.html
When I bought my Mac, I had no axe to grind regarding platform, I just weighed up the advantages and disadvantages of what was in the market, and chose accordingly, and I think I made the correct choice.
So much of the suspicion on both sides is due to technophobia or fear of the unknown, and in a way is similar to the great religious debates of the middle ages, both sides on a moral high horse with no room to compromise.
Sly Stallone, Jean-Claude Van Damme, and Arnold Schwartzenneger are sitting around one day discussing a possible project together, as they all want to break typecasting they decide to co produce and star in a biopic of classical composers. Sly thinks for a while, then decides on Beethoven as his role, as he sees the challenge of playing a deaf composer as very satisfying. Jean-Claude decides on Mozart, as he relishes the possibilities of imersing himself in a totaly different culture. Arnie sits there for a while in quiet contemplation, and then states " I'll be Bach..." |
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| jean-paul |
| quote: | | So much of the suspicion on both sides is due to technophobia or fear of the unknown |
True, but I work with both systems and try not not be biased by these phenomenons. I just look objectively at the failure rate.
Early ( 400 MHz ) G4's are crappy machines. And original Mac 21" CRT screens rarely survive 3 years of use without failure. Same goes for power supplies of the older Mac's.
Productivity of Mac users is higher due to the small area of use.Second plus is the fact that technical knowledge of the system is not necessary with Mac's. Hey, I am positive too about the Apples ! I partly earn a living by servicing them.
Only the remarks about build quality tend to go a certain direction that is beneath the truth. Looks and/or design of the case are not the same as the internal hardware-design.
About downtime: until recently Apple didn't have real servers. Pc servers have proven their reliability (regardless of the may be not so reliable OS they run). We were talking about hardware, didn't we ? Time will tell what the new Apple servers will do.
And yes, I want an Ipod too !!!!:D |
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| planet10 |
| quote: | Originally posted by jean-paul
Please come off your cloud. I never had so much hardware failures with pc's as with Mac G4's. Memory, mainboard and power supply errors are common. |
I have worked at dealers for a long time.Digital board & power supply problems are not common (power supplies are an issue with MacPlus style computers but those should be doorstops by now). There were a few specific products (PB5300, one particular 17" monitor) that had design flaws.
Memory is exactly the same as used in PCs so you would expect the same failure rate.
Our failure rate for PCs sold is dramatically higher.
| quote: | | Anybody that has owned a beige G3 can tell you about the on board SCSI card with its peculiarities. |
I've owned at least 3 (still have 2). 2 of them served reliably 24/7 as my webserver -- now a G3 smurf. Other than the normal SCSI black magic inherent in the bus i have had no SCSI issues. Now the IIfx had weird SCSI.
BTW any Beige G3 is now over 5 years old and if a PC would have been a door stop for a while.
| quote: | | Agreed, nowadays series are better than ever but don't exagerate the build quality. |
Certainly since NeXT took over Apple hardware & software quality has gone up.
| quote: | | Tasks that are performed with pc's are much broader whereas the Mac's are practically only used for graphical / layout jobs. |
Certainly there are some niches where there is PC software that you can't get for the Mac (yet) but for any general purpose task there is, and for doing almost anything creative a company would be failing their fudiciary responsibilities by using PCs (and that is well documented).
| quote: | | Industrial pc's are far more reliable. |
But we aren't talking industrial PCs.
| quote: | | I also work with Sun hardware, I have never seen any defect in the 3 or 4 years they *continuously* run till now. |
An | | | |
