| Devius |
Hi
I have aquired some electronic valves, and in the middle of them there were three 1B24A tubes. Two of them in boxes and one without a box. These tubes bear a radioactive sign on the boxes and on the tube metal envelope. I have researched and it turns out they have some radioative material in their composition, namely Cobalt 60. The exact quantity I'm not aware since the brand of the tubes doesn't apear on the page listing the information.
What I'd like to know is if these tubes are dangerous to keep around or if they are just dangerous if broken or somehing.
Thanks |
|
|
| Tweeker |
| Dont leave them under your pillow, and dont break them, the dust is very fine and difficult to clean up. Half life is 5 and a quarter years (read: its highly radioactive), its 99.9% Nickel in about 50 years. Cobalt 60 emits gamma rays. |
|
|
| Tweeker |
| This tube can contain upto a microcurie of Cobalt 60. |
|
|
| Mark A. Gulbrandsen |
1 Micro-curie = One millionth of a curie. That amount of radioactive material that disintegrates (decays) at the rate of 37 thousand atoms per second.
Treat any radioactive parts or substances with extreme care!! I have a couple that contain radioactive substances but they are not measurable with a Geiger Counter so most would deem them safe. They are way to cool to just dispose of but they may be a reason for my hair loss.....:bigeyes:
Mark |
|
|
| Tweeker |
| West brand 1B24A tubes can contain upto 2 microcuries of Radium 226. |
|
|
| Nordic |
| Sounds like you are building a valve powered WMD. |
|
|
| Tweeker |
| Let me know if you have any tubes with Nickel-63.:darkside: |
|
|
| Tweeker |
| Valves are the way to go for WMDs, SS just isnt hard. |
|
|
| Devius |
I have those valves in a far corner of my house lol
WMD?? Weapon of Mass Destruction? :O Not really...
The 1B24A valves I have are from JRC and they have an inscription that says something like "manufactured by Japan Radio Company for Raytheon". They are at least some 30 years old. I didn't quite understand all that technical stuff about decay but, given their age does that mean they are not dangerous any more? Or is it the opposite? |
|
|
| Stocker |
| half-life: the time it takes for your valves to be half as dangerous. In twenty more years they will be almost completely non-radioactive. |
|
|
| Tweeker |
| The joke here is that (almost?) all implosion triggered nuclear devices are powered by valves. |
|
|
| electropt |
Hi,
If you are unsure about those tubes call, or visit our national Nuclear Institute.
Their contact:
Instituto Tecnológico e Nuclear
Estrada Nacional 10, 2686-953 Sacavém, Portugal
Telef.: 21 994 6000 - Fax: 21 955 01 17
Regards,
Hugo
PS: Qualquer duvida apita! (Olha só) |
|
|
| Mark A. Gulbrandsen |
| quote: | | The joke here is that (almost?) all implosion triggered nuclear devices are powered by valves. |
Hardly a joke! Since the EMP would reach the detonation circuitry instantly, way before the blast would destroy it. The EMP would destroy the circuitry were it solid state, possibly before that circuitry is finished doing its job.
Mark |
|
|
| Tweeker |
Yes, its just that this tube is a relative of the ones used in nuke circuits. Some of these parts can be even more retro- spark gaps.
If anyone can come up with an SS device that will reliably switch kA@kV in nS Im sure many riches will follow the monkeys that come flying out my behind. |
|
|
| Jason Watts |
| Co-60 emits gamma rays main at 1332 and 1773 KeV. A typical medical X-ray machine produces a 75 KeV X-ray. A medical X-ray is nothing compared to the gammas produced by the Co-60. High energy gamma requires extremely dense substances to shield and do considerably more damage than a low energy X-ray. In other words don’t hang around them allot. As a matter of fact if it was me I would even handle them until I knew how much actual Co-60 was in them. |
|
|
| Devius |
Thanks for all the replies.
I have those tubes stored in the garage far from the the most used spaces of the house, but I'll probably try to find somewhere even farther to store them given all the info you guys have been giving me. Anyway, they should be less dangerous now, since they are at least 30 years old, but probably 40, considering all the other tubes that were in the same box and a few inscriptions on some tube boxes. They also have some sort of thick metal shield around most of the valve. Only a small glass window on the center where you can see the spark gap or whatever it is called.
The radioactive sign all over the tube is a bit creepy... but apart from that they are the coolest tubes I have :) |
|
|
| Tweeker |
| There have been some horrifying incidents involving Cobalt-60 from scrap radiology equipment. |
|
|
| Devius |
Ok... now I'm getting scared :yikes:
Is anyone interested in aquiring some really cool tubes? :angel: |
|
|
| Stocker |
| quote: | Originally posted by Tweeker
There have been some horrifying incidents involving Cobalt-60 from scrap radiology equipment. |
Like? |
|
|
| Mark A. Gulbrandsen |
| quote: | | There have been some horrifying incidents involving Cobalt-60 from scrap radiology equipment. |
More details please..... since I haappen to have a large Floroscopy imaging tube in my collection.... although nothing was measured with a standard Geiger Counter......
Mar |
|
|
| Jason Watts |
| I work in place that manufactures reactor fuel for commercial nuclear reactors. We use C-60 to test or criticality detection sensors. These sensors are what triggers the evacuation alarms if a uncontrollable nuclear reaction occurs. Our reasoning for choosing C0-60 is its high energy gammas to simulate gamma rays from nuclear criticality. |
|
|
| Tweeker |
| Its radiotherapy equipment for dosing cancer patients thats really of concern. Imaging equipment wont have nearly the sheer quantity of isotope some of these machines can have. |
|
|
| Mark A. Gulbrandsen |
| quote: | | I work in place that manufactures reactor fuel for commercial nuclear reactors. |
You make fuel for neuc plants and I have to say that I find it kinda funny that your last name is Watts........;)
Mark |
|
|
| Scottmoose |
| Shades of Neville Shute's 'On the Beach'... I seem to recall that Cobalt-60 was mooted for neutron-type low-yield weapons -the so-called 'dirty bombs'. Not nice. I would dispose of them, safely (call your nuclear body as suggested for advice), as swiftly as possible. Even tiny amounts of radioactive substances like that found in your valves are no joke at all. I doubt there's be enough to do any harm, especially with them being old, but take no chances and you run no risk is my motto with anything of that ilk. |
|
|
| Stocker |
| You sound like a person who is not too comfortable around a table saw with the guard removed there. Nobody is joking, and the risk is basically nil after 30-40 years. |
|
|
| inox |
one
if thier was any serious amoynt of cobalt-60 in these tubes thry would not have been avalible to the general public. hence tat they would have been closely monitored when transported and disposed of properly when unuseable
two
the design of the tube itself would make a partial shield that would block much of the dose anyone would receive from it
three
being that it would be a small amount, the halflife on it would be almost up meaning that if it were dangerus back then it wouldnt be now
and four
most all radiation warnings are truly exagerated meaning that the amount in the valve would be insignificant as a source of high dose
just because a certain radioactive subsatance puts out so much rem per second or minute doesnt mean you absorb it all directly usually the rem you recieve is less than what is put out in this case it would be milli-rem |
|
|
| SSassen |
Uh?
| quote: | three
being that it would be a small amount, the halflife on it would be almost up meaning that if it were dangerus back then it wouldnt be now
|
I think you fail to grab the concept of 'halflife', it serves to illustrate the time it takes for the radioactive material to drop to half the radiation dose. Hence once the 'halflife' period is over the radioactive material is NOT rendered inactive, it just radiates half as strong as before.
To illustrate things, if you were to buy the tubes new and hold them for 10-seconds in your hands, you'd receive a radiation dose equal to X.
Today, after 30-years, they output just half the amount of radiation they used to when they were new. Hence if you hold them for 10-seconds you receive a radiaton dose equal to X/2. Hence holding them for 20-seconds would mean you'd receive a radiation dose equal to when they were new; X/2 + X/2 = X
The point I'm trying to make is that you should dispose of these tubes. If they are in your house it is not a matter of holding them for 10 or 20-seconds, they are laying there for weeks, months years and you may well have been exposed to a radiation dose several magnitudes greater than the above mentioned X.
Best regards,
Sander Sassen
http://www.hardwareanalysis.com |
|
|
| Simpleton |
| quote: |
Is anyone interested in aquiring some really cool tubes? :angel:
|
Now that's something that puts an enormously stupid grin on my face, i dunno why... :D :D
Let me see how much lead i have around to make a real cool box for one of those and maybe we can talk this thru (aka, free):angel: |
|
|
| electropt |
Hi,
I think you should try to find out the real danger (if any) those tubes may pose to someone or something (the enviroment).
Only then, minding your decision, you should decide what to do with them.
No one should pass the problem around... (a velha questao da batata quente)
Try to find some one with a Geiger Muller (?) counter (chama-se cintilador em Portugues) and mesure the radiation. Or dispose of them right away (and in the right way) and dont think much of if...
This expresses my own view on the matter, as it is, its an opinion :D
Um abraço |
|
|
| Tweeker |
| quote: | one
if thier was any serious amoynt of cobalt-60 in these tubes thry would not have been avalible to the general public. hence tat they would have been closely monitored when transported and disposed of properly when unuseable |
That may be true in the US, it is not the case everywhere. Strontium-90 capsules have turned up in ex USSR areas. In 2002, three hunters in the former Soviet republic of Georgia were severely irradiated after stumbling across an RTG that had been in the woods for years. Huddling around the strontium battery as a heat source, all three received high radiation doses and spent months in the hospital battling radiation sickness. There were over 1,000 RTGs made, many are unaccounted for.
A junkyard worker in Brazil picked up a canister containing 1,400 curies of Cesium-137 from a radiotherapy machine. Six year old Leide Ferreira played makeup with it and was among 4 killed in immediate aftermath the accident.
Jitsen Chansakha of Bangkok had to have a finger amputated after an exposure to Cobalt-60 from a scrap machine.
There has been considerable improvement in the regulation of these hazards. Very few tubes will have much radiation to speak of. But I wouldnt bet depend on government regulation and monitoring to prevent there being anything nasty in the wild. Take it from a man who used to live by "US Lead". |
|
|
| Frenchman |
I think the easiest way to describe what should be done is this:
Do you want these tubes? If you want them, go to the trouble of making sure they're safe. As many have suggested, take them to the appropriate authority and check with them. A local university or other government organization is a good choice.
If you don't want them, just get rid of them. Contact your local waste disposal company (whoever takes out of garbage) and ask them where to go for hazardous waste disposel. Call up that company and tell them what you have.
I agree with both groups of people here. No doubt these tubes are not dangerous at all anymore. But on the other hand, if you have no need of them, why take the risk? Just get rid of them and be done with it. |
|
|
| Stocker |
Did we miss this?
| quote: | Originally posted by Tweeker
Half life is 5 and a quarter years (read: its highly radioactive), its 99.9% Nickel in about 50 years. Cobalt 60 emits gamma rays. |
5.25yr X/2
10.5yr X/4
15.75yr X/8
21yr X/16
26.25yr X/32
31.5yr X/64
36.75yr X/128
42yr X/256
47.25yr X/512
etc.
The dose delivered at this point in their life is way, way, WAY down from what it was in year-one.
which leads me to a couple of questions:
why was the radioactive stuff in there and
will the performance of the tubes be degraded by the loss of emissions?
Let's not forget also that the radiation is not going only straight into you, it goes out in a nice almost-sphere depending on distribution and construction in the tube... distance from the source drastically decreases radiation dose received. |
|
|
| poobah |
Stocker,
I like your attitude... I won't work on a tablesaw that has a guard... dangerous.
If you need a guard, you shouldn't near a saw.
I don't cut much radioactive stuff though... |
|
|
| mzzj |
| quote: | Originally posted by Tweeker
That may be true in the US, it is not the case everywhere. |
I remember one case couple of years ago where gangsters stole protective casing of RITEG-beacon´s strontium power source.
"He assumes the thief or thieves have died, or will soon perish. "An unprotected power source gives off a lethal dose of radiation within ten minutes at a distance of 20 centimetres."
Bodrov estimates that Russia has around one hundred RITEG lighthouses in the Gulf of Finland region. The lighthouses are checked every three months, but not guarded. The lighthouses will be transferred from the Russian Navy to civilian control later this year. "
Darwin awards, part 2. :)
I also remember hearing about at one entire steel factory shutdown due to radioactive waste ending up in scrap metal used in converters/mixers/whatever. And another steel factory having 200tons of steel slab stored "forever" on backyard as they managed to mix some radioactive material to that batch. |
|
|
| davidsrsb |
| Power valve heaters used to be made out of tungsten with a coating of thorium, which is an alpha particle emitter. Alpha would be stopped by the glass envelope. |
|
|
| Tweeker |
| DHTs and most RF power tubes both triode, tetrode and even the rare pentode still use thoriated tungsten filaments. Its not exactly a coating, the thorium migrates to the surface. |
|
|
| Sir Trefor |
| I'd really like to see a picture of one of these "Radioactive tubes". Do all 1B24A-type tubes contain cobalt-60? I'd REALLY like to have one; as I was reading about them I decided that they are possibly the coolest thing ever. |
|
|
| ctardi |
| quote: | Originally posted by Tweeker
DHTs and most RF power tubes both triode, tetrode and even the rare pentode still use thoriated tungsten filaments. Its not exactly a coating, the thorium migrates to the surface. |
I am a welder and keep a good ammount of tungsten on hand...is this dangerous? |
|
|
| Tweeker |
Thoriated welding rods will be labeled as such (red band is 2%). Thorium is an primarily an alpha emitter, this radiation is not very penetrating. As such it is only a hazard when taken internally, usually through inhalation. They really arent a dangerous when they are just sitting there.
Weld in a ventilated area. Under most welding conditions emission should be low, if your eating electrodes of this type fast, you may be doing something wrong. Exposure risk to it is present when grinding electrodes, the dust is an inhalation hazard. |
|
|
| poobah |
I take thorium everyday for depression...
:xeye: |
|
|
| Tweeker |
Do you wash it down with radon water? :xeye:
I suppose it could be a brand name. Thorazine is a neuroleptic of similar name. Lithium (as lithium carbonate) is the element Im most familiar with in the treatment of depression.
Thorotrast an obsolete compound of thorium dioxide for medical imaging is the only thorium containing drug I can find reference to. |
|
|
| sam9 |
As far as the thoriated tungsten goes, it's purpose was/is to increase the electrons emission from the filament. At least that's what I was told by one of the design engineers years ago. Virtually any radioactive material had to be noted in the datasheets and on the product even if harmless. Not even OSHA really cared about it except that there was a legal requirement to have a notice or marking. While the tube body shielded it completely, the material could be (and was) safely handled with bare hands.
The real danger (apart from simply the hazards of high voltages) with high power RF tubes was x-rays. When you run up the voltage enough (~14kV) the filament's spectra moves in to a hazardous area. The injury is cummulative so restricting average V isn't enough, with time the voltage spikes can kill and in at least one case (long ago) that I'm aware of did exactly that. |
|
|
| poobah |
Right!
I'm pretty sure they said I have neurolepsy... and if I took Leptoprin I could reduce my brain size too.
Not to be confused with Kleptathor... the drug you need when you steal electrodes from other welders... BAD - :nownow: |
|
|
| Tweeker |
| quote: | | The real danger (apart from simply the hazards of high voltages) with high power RF tubes was x-rays. When you run up the voltage enough (~14kV) the filament's spectra moves in to a hazardous area. The injury is cummulative so restricting average V isn't enough, with time the voltage spikes can kill and in at least one case (long ago) that I'm aware of did exactly that. |
| quote: | Dont sit so close to the TV, you'll burn your eyes out! :nownow:
|
|
|
|
| Mark A. Gulbrandsen |
I worked around 6BK4's for years and I could still see just fine....after the 6BK4's I went to work at the sending end of things......this was a long time ago, back in the early 80's and I now I know why I can't see worth a darn.
Mark |
|
|
| Tweeker |
| I do remember hearing that as a kid, and how I was irradiating myself staring at that electron gun. 6BK4 and friends was first example of household xray emitter I could come up with. I need to stop staring at spark gaps though or I'll go blind in a hurry. |
|
|
| phase_accurate |
| quote: | | The real danger (apart from simply the hazards of high voltages) with high power RF tubes was x-rays. When you run up the voltage enough (~14kV) the filament's spectra moves in to a hazardous area. |
In older colour TVs the regulation of the high voltage was done with so-called ballast triodes that could also generate some X-ray radiation.
Regards
Charles |
|
|
| davidsrsb |
Colour TVs had eht up to very high 20s kV, a bit less now. The front glass of the tube is thick and has a high lead content to block the radiation. There was some real danger to service technicians if the eht was turned up, but probably more from that eht.
I once made a vhf valve transmitter with a regulated 3kV 1A PSU, that could turn you into toast. |
|
|
| Mark A. Gulbrandsen |
Well color tv's were never that bad of a radiator, they were really well controled by each countries perspective authorities. Then came along Color projection TV in the early 70's such as the Advent TV and it used 30kv and small scannable targets un the Schnidt type CRT's. I fear that I received the largest doses of X-rays from working on these sets and I'm glad that I didn't work on them too long.
Mark |
|
|
| scott wurcer |
| Hey what can I say, I used the search feature first. I and a friend have been restoring some old CD geiger counters to help fellow off gridders get rid of their radioactive gas mantles. I can confirm 1B22's at least peg the meters on the first two scales, plenty of Beta and Gamma. |
|
|
|
