| Bryan |
Hey Guys,
Just for kicks I've been looking at the new DSO offerings from TEK. I've scecifically been looking at the TDS 2000 series. Does anyone have any expreience with these new scopes, and how would they compare to my trusty TEK 465B?
I'm only interested in audio related test/measurement.
Any input is appreciated.
Thanks,
Bryan |
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| nickds1 |
I've a tek 2024 with the maths package, which is very nice, but I still prefer the trusty Tek 2465A as a 'scope to work with. Only problem is no printing (though there are ways round that).
My nice 7904A with plugins will be on eBay UK soon - I'll be sad to see that go, but I need the space... (it's in the photo below).
The Workbench
Nick |
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| tschrama |
| Can't recommend them for audio stuff ... |
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| Bryan |
| That said, what would you recommend for audio testing? |
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| nickds1 |
If you really want a DSO, the Instek ones are great value for money (and they come with the FFT stuff etc.):
http://www.testequipmentdepot.com/i...0_840series.htm
I and many others still prefer a good analogue 'scope, like the Tek 2465 series stuff mentioned above. They don't do the FFT thing, but they miss nothing... |
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| aletheian |
| quote: | Originally posted by nickds1
I've a tek 2024 with the maths package, which is very nice, but I still prefer the trusty Tek 2465A as a 'scope to work with. Only problem is no printing (though there are ways round that).
My nice 7904A with plugins will be on eBay UK soon - I'll be sad to see that go, but I need the space... (it's in the photo below).
The Workbench
Nick |
Now there's a guy who takes his testing seriously! |
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| Brian Donaldson |
| If he only had room to put something up there ot test :D |
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| nickds1 |
There is an amp there - on the right (the bit of the bench that's not in view) - a Perreaux PMF 2150B that had blown up - got it for free and rebuilt it. There is a 200W dummy load next to it.
I know its not glass, but I'm only just getting going with tubes... |
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| Brian Donaldson |
I'm being sarcastic. I'm really envious.
I'm just starting into tubes also. |
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| aletheian |
| quote: | Originally posted by Brian Donaldson
I'm being sarcastic. I'm really envious.
I'm just starting into tubes also. |
That begs the question of a good starter scope for noobs. 20-40MHz scopes go for next to nothing on ebay... usually Tektronix 2205 and BK 1201/2120 types. Would the be a good recommendation for a starter? The resolution would suck, but for general testing it might be cool. |
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| Brian Donaldson |
A 20 Mhz analog scope is more than adequate for audio.( maybe not the digital part ) I bought a B&K 2120 for $40 that arived in the original box and looked brand new with all manuals. The only problem is I had to by $50 worth of probes. Resolution is fine. If the sig looks fuzzy, turn up the sweep speed and you'll see oscilation. (like my POS Denon preamp)
Then I bought a audio sig generator for $25.
The Tek scope is considered a better unit, but I have no complaints about my B&K. They are both entry level and not as impressively built as an older Tek 465 or 475, but they cost as much as a Mercedes when they were new. |
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| gingertube |
Unless you are an experienced DIY'er or Tech and really understand how to use a DSO (Digital Signal Oscilloscope) you can seriously go wrong with a DSO. You can easily miss stuff that is obvious on an analog scope. You can also easily leave it in a special mode which you only realise 2 days later and have to redo a great heap of tests.
Of-course you can go wrong with analog scopes too - I had to redo a frequency response run just last night because I had'nt set the probe compensation - it was'nt till I switched the sig gen to square wave and went "Hmm.. that can't be right" that the penny dropped.
The real "beauty" of DSO's of course is that they have all those fancy features for phase measurements, FFTs etc and some of them come with a built in printer which is great for sticking screen plots into your design project exersize book. Their price is generally attractive too.
For the "single instrument" family I guess the DSO is the go BUT do spend time learning its ways and get into the habit of checking all its settings before taking critical measurements.
I run a "cheapy" 20MHz analog scope in the home workshop and when needed borrow one of the YOKOGOWA DSO's with built in printer from work.
Cheers,
Ian |
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| Brian Donaldson |
I may not be an expert, but I would recommend a cheap analog first. Ther's lots of things you can do with one, and the sreen can show you things that the PC based AD converters may miss. And I would say the used Ebay cheapy analog is cheaper than a new DSO, and I wouldn't buy something like that used. There may be compatability and software issues that you can't overcome.
Not that a DSO wouldn't be nice to have as well...Get both! |
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| moamps |
| quote: | Originally posted by gingertube
Unless you are an experienced DIY'er or Tech and really understand how to use a DSO (Digital Signal Oscilloscope) you can seriously go wrong with a DSO. ... |
DSO = digital storage oscilloscope ;) |
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| dhaen |
| Just wondering why this thread is in the Tubes forum..:scratch: |
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| Bryan |
dhean,
Well, when I started the thread I figured that most DIY tube guys would have plenty of information pertaining to scopes that are comonly used for DIY (tube) audio, and possibly also have experience with the newer DSO's. If you feel it would be better placed in an alternate forum, please feel free to change the location.
Sorry,
Bryan |
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| dhaen |
Hi Bryan,
No critisism intended. :) I just wonderd if the discussion would attact a wider participation if it was in Everything Else. The subject is certainly pertinent to the SS people who sometimes don't see the Tubes Forum at all.
Perhaps we need a "Test Equipment and Tools" forum eventually.
BTW I know I owe you an email:ashamed: |
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| Bryan |
No criticism perceived ;)
I DO love e-mails.....:D
BK |
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| andyjevans |
| Since we're talking scopes, maybe you guys could give me an opinion - I have never used a scope so far but am just clearing space to install some gear. I have a 20mhz Philips PM3214 - needs recalibration and a couple of sticky pots. Should I have this serviced or look on ebay for a Tek 465B? I missed one last night - went for £102 and it was fully working. A service would cost me at least half that. What do you suggest - get a service or watch ebay? Andy |
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| anatech |
Hi andyjevans,
My humble opinion. Clean the controls and use the scope as it is.
Most 'scopes are not terribly accurate unless you are talking a DSO. What you should do is get use to using a 'scope and figure out where the short comings are. Find out what parameters are most important to you.
To all, when working on tube circuits with a newer 'scope in particular, always decrease the vertical sensivity before moving the test probe. The newer 'scopes can be damaged very easily at the higher tube voltages. This is very true when something is oscillating.
For most audio work, the new 'scopes with a 0.5uS / div range will do almost anything you need (20 MHz). You can set up a CD player with these, the eye apttern is perfectly visible. To catch the odd oscillation you may need a 100MHz or better 'scope.
-Chris |
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| andyjevans |
My humble opinion. Clean the controls and use the scope as it is.>
that's the advice I've had so far. I don't know if I could do this - never seen inside a scope. It might make sense to have a service/clean rather than a recalibration. the money would be better spent by the look of it. |
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| anatech |
Hi andyjevans,
Well, at least you'll know that the scope is fully functional then.
If you ever get a meter or 'scope calibrated (anything really), make sure to get the data and they optimize the unit. The only handheld meter worthwhile is a Fluke. They will hold their calibration for a long time.
-Chris |
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| Alastair E |
A while back, I got a Tek 454 off the fleabay for 50quid, but the CRT was well past its prime--
A lot of searching round on the 'Web, turned an unused boxed CRT tube up in NYC< so I got that, fitted it and all is well--The new CRT cost me 50 quid but was worth it as the 'scope was in otherwise excellent condition, and where else could you get a 'scope built like a brick-outhouse and 150Mhz that cheap, with a new bright sharp trace!--
It even uses tubes (8393 Nuvistors) in its front end and part of the horizontal ccts. and not having those difficult to get chips and other weird devices is easy to repair should it need it.........
By todays standards, its an absolute dinasaur, but great for audio and beyond, and I love it!:D |
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