| vern |
Hello everyone, new here :)
I wanted to ask the forum if anyone has experience with driving low efficiency speakers with one of the tripath 2020 based amps (amp3, autocostruire, charlize).
Specifically, I'm considering the Charlize, but I'm not sure it will be able to drive my B&W CDM-1NT's (8ohm, 88db).
Thanks for any advice... :confused:
[http://www.bwspeakers.com/downloadF...t_info_CDM1.pdf] |
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| Nuuk |
| My IPL A2's are rated at 89 db and the Charlize has no problems driving them! Ideally, it would be best to borrow a class-T amp if you know anybody who has one. Even the Sonic Impact T-AMP would be a good guide! :att'n: |
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| kanaddict |
| quote: | Originally posted by vern
Hello everyone, new here :)
I wanted to ask the forum if anyone has experience with driving low efficiency speakers with one of the tripath 2020 based amps (amp3, autocostruire, charlize).
Specifically, I'm considering the Charlize, but I'm not sure it will be able to drive my B&W CDM-1NT's (8ohm, 88db).
Thanks for any advice... :confused:
[http://www.bwspeakers.com/downloadF...t_info_CDM1.pdf] |
Hi,
I use Carlize to power some big 3 ways (85 db, 4 ohm) with no problems. It will depend on your listening habits and the size of your room. If your room is not too big and you play music a low to medium level, then you should be OK.
Your B&W will love Charlize ! You will get a more present bass from this little puppy and keep the good mid and HF.
I plan to visit a friend and try my Charlize with some very good B&W 3 ways he have. I don't know if this will happen into the near future.
You should order Charlize and try it in a cheap prototype. This way, you won't have to pay big $$ to see if you like what you get. |
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| vern |
I see the IPL A2 are 89db and 8ohm, only slightly more efficient than mine - so there's hope :D
As for trying a t-amp - it's based on the 2024 (15w) and weaker than the 2020 (20w) based amps. In terms of power should I just think of it as providing 75% of what the 2020 can do?
Thanks :) |
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| Andrewbee |
Vern, there is no realistic difference between 15W and 20W so don't let it influence your decision.
Andrew |
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| Nuuk |
| quote: | | As for trying a t-amp - it's based on the 2024 (15w) and weaker than the 2020 (20w) based amps. In terms of power should I just think of it as providing 75% of what the 2020 can do? |
I only mentioned the T-AMP as it is more likely that you may know somebody with one! :att'n: I agree wit hthe others though - you should be fairly safe in buying the Charlize. ;) |
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| Yves Smolders |
Be warned, the CDM1NT's (i'm not sure if you have the old ones or those with nautilus tweeters) are a strange load.
They are not really difficult, but they do drop to about 5 ohms in the bass region.
The larger 7 and 9NT's had 3.3 ohm official minimal load on the specs. (The 9NT shared the N804's drivers) |
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| vern |
Positive opinions so far and I'm becoming more and more convinced I should go for it :cool:
Yves - About your warning:
CDM-1NT is the one with the nautilus tweeters. What do you mean when you say it is a strange load? What should I be hearing (or not hearing, as the case may be)? |
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| Yves Smolders |
I meant the impedance vs frequency curve isn't easy for an amp to drive. You can't really hear it if the amp's got trouble, maybe it's going to clip faster and won't handle the bass so well.
The CMD-9NT and the N804 are worse because they are 3 way (impedance between 3 and 8 ohms)
You can't really hear it, but with less capable amps, the CDM-9NT and 804's were told to have anemic bass and harsh treble.
Don't worry, it's not that bad with the small CDM-1(NT) and the 805, less difficult do drive.
Go for it! |
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| pcspinheiro |
Now that we are on this topic, do you guys think that I can get away with using a 41Hz AMP3 and a pair of wharfedale diamond 9.1 (86dB, 6 Ohm)? They won the what-hifi award for under 250£ stereo speaker (and I wanted them before anyway, because I always heard good reviews and also because of the price of 176€).
Cheers! |
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| vern |
I did go for the Charlize, and I've very happy I did :D
It easily drives the speakers and has plenty of power. No compromises - there's as much volume available as I could ever want...
And yes, it's all true... what a great little amp - sounds so very good. I'm especially impressed with the imaging and how natural sounding it is... :cool: |
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| Nuuk |
| quote: | | It easily drives the speakers and has plenty of power. No compromises - there's as much volume available as I could ever want... |
I think it would help others if people posted what systyem they use Charlize in! For instance, do you use a pre-amp and does the pre have any gain.
But not surprsingly, another happy Charlize owner! ;) |
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| kanaddict |
| quote: | Originally posted by vern
I did go for the Charlize, and I've very happy I did :D
It easily drives the speakers and has plenty of power. No compromises - there's as much volume available as I could ever want...
And yes, it's all true... what a great little amp - sounds so very good. I'm especially impressed with the imaging and how natural sounding it is... :cool: |
Good to see that Charlize is able to drive your B&W with no problem !
At this day, all the comments I read about Charlize are more then positive (including mine :D ). I wonder if someone had the opportunity to compare Charlize to the more powerfull UCD180 ?
(At low to medium level). |
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| vern |
Well, the speakers are B&W CDM1NT and the source is a PC through an external usb soundcard - creative audigy 2 nx (surprisingly good, imho).
I guess it does function as a pre-amp as well, since the output is amplified (no analog line-out). I also tried using my portable (iaudio x5) as source and got good results (both line-out and headphone-out). |
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| chipmec |
I hooked up Charlize first to a set of L100's (three way rock and roll speaks from the '70's). I think they are 87 db eff. My impression: not bad, a little weak in the bass area. This is without a preamp.
Then I tried my Mirage M3's (two way from the same era, I don't know the eff. rating). Better! Charlize had an easier time driving those.
The detail is very good with both.
I have a set of JBL L46's and a set of Advent originals that I plan to try tomorrow. They are both two way. I will post my impressions.
I don't listen very loud anymore and the room is small, so your milage may vary.
I plan on building my first set of speakers with full range Fostex, high eff. drivers in the near future. I want to give her something easy to drive and also experiment with full range drivers with no x-over.
Even so, she will play plenty loud enough to annoy my wife, and that's all I can ask of any amp! |
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| edge540 |
I tried Charlize on sonus faber electa amator friend's. 87 db, i believe and very hard to drive said the owner.
There was no miracle,Charlize was rapidely KO, but my friend said that many amplifers very bigger (power and size) than Charlize were out sooner. |
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| speaker |
| quote: | Originally posted by chipmec
I have a set of JBL L46's and a set of Advent originals that I plan to try tomorrow. They are both two way. I will post my impressions. |
I've hooked my completely stock SI-5066 up to original Advents last night and it drives them just fine. I have also used it on a set of very inefficient ADS mini monitors and it did an admirable job on them as well. |
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| chipmec |
Charlize sounds great with my large Advents and really well with my JBL L46's. The L46's may be the most eff. speakers that I own, because they sound noticably more dynamic with Charlize than the other, larger speakers that I have put her with.
Interestingly enough, I hooked back to my L100's after the L46's and it sounded better than the test from yesterday. I guess a little burn-in time helps.
This is fun! |
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| cotdt |
| i can drive my 89 dB efficient speakers with my monster 50W headphone amp! no need for an amp at all! |
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| Finnegann |
| Proac 1SC monitors, 86dB (or less) 5 ohms minimum, with Amp6 are quite good. Even the bass is ok, low bass is not strong, but it's ok. My room is smallish and the amp has aircore inductors and 14.6 voltage. |
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| cotdt |
| wait till you try some ~ 92dB efficient speakers on the amp6. that really makes the amp sing. but OK, I do think that the system should be designed around the speakers and not the amp. In that case, AMP5 will be the way to go. |
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| lawbadman |
Anybody ever tried the Charlize with magnepan MMG speakers or a similar combination?
What were the results like? |
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| john65b |
While I do not have the Charlize, I have a TA2020 amp and my pair of MMG's are a bit too tough for it. It's hard to explain, but the TA2020/MMG amp/speaker combo feels strained.
It seems to loose the dynamics and presence of a more efficient speaker with the TA2020.
Of course. it is just my opinion here...your mileage may vary. |
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| lawbadman |
Thanks john65b,
I guess I will have to go with one of the Hypex modules.
Have you tried a UCD or ZAPpulse with your MMGs?
Lawrence |
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| panomaniac |
| quote: | Originally posted by lawbadman
Anybody ever tried the Charlize with magnepan MMG speakers or a similar combination? |
Maggies need POWER POWER POWER!! I can't see that a little 7 watt amp could really light them up. But he magnepans have great detail, so what you get before clipping should sound very nice, very detailed. |
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| jkeny |
Anybody try the t-amp with Rogers LS3/5a speakers? - 15 ohm about 86db. I have these and a t-amp and although the sound is loud enough for me I still feel it might be lacking something. I don't have any other decent speakers to try it with
John |
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| john65b |
| Funny you shoud say UCD...I ordered a pair of the 180's two weeks ago...I plan on using them with my MMG's, and I am sure it will be awesome sounding. |
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| lawbadman |
Hey John65b,
That is also the same plan that I have. I was just wondering if I could get away with a 15 watter for a little while.
I will be purchasing a pair of the UDC180 soon but I wanted to be totally sure that I am going in the right direction.
I asked the guys over at audiogon.com which budget amp would go well with my MMGs and they are in favour of a McCormack DNA 1 or 0.5. How well do you think that the UCD180 will compare to a McCormack?
Thanks |
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| classd4sure |
Hi,
Never heard a DNA 1 but I just did a quick read up of it.. sounds decent. It also sounds like the UCD180 is about 1/2 the power?
Spend the same amount on a UCD400 setup, or half that, good quality components etc.. it'd probably blow it out of the water in every respect, and you have that DIY thrill to it too.
Just my biased view. |
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| john65b |
The McCormak is some serious bucks. As mentioned, I would do the UCD400 before dumpinmg that kinda cash. You may also want to look into the Panasonic SA-XR45, SA-XR55, SA-XR70. You may be surprised on how they can make the MMG's sing beautifully. And for a LOT less than other high end amps like the McCormak.
Currently have a XR45, getting the UCD180 and getting the XR55 (Bi-ampable, amoung other cool things). The Amp that sounds best to my (and my wifes) ears on the MMG's get permanent placement in my main music system and playtime, and the others get posted up on Audiogon/ebay.
I anticipate the best is UCD, then the XR55, and then the XR45.
We will see. At under $250 for each of these three for the big TEST, it won't kill my wallet... |
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| soufiej |
I have the Italian 2020 amp built from a kit and have tried several speakers with the amp. My most frequently used speakers during the last two years have been a pair of Rogers LS3/5a's (manufactured somewhere around 1979, so the original 15 Ohm version). Using both the SI T-amp and the Autocostruire amp, the 3/5a's never completely "light up" on all music. I also have used a pair of NSM 5s's and some inexpensive KEF Cresta 1's with these two amplifiers. The KEF's are the most efficient and the simplest load on the amplifiers. The 3/5a's might be a very tube friendly speaker, but the chip amps seem to have a different opinion of the BBC design. It isn't too surprising then to say the el-cheapo ($199 pair retail) KEF's are the best sounding speakers I have so far paired with these amplifiers. While they lack a bit of finesse and three dimensionality that the Rogers can impart to the music, the KEF's present the music in a very convincing fashion that is not that far off from the other two pairs of speakers. Possibly the fact the KEF's are ported and the Rogers and NSM's are sealed enclosures has a bit to do with the sound quality when paired with the chip amps. Both AS speakers have a bit of bloat in the bottom (as far down as they will go, at least) when used with the chip amplifiers. The lower efficiency of the AS designs also means the amplifiers are always closer to clipping and have less headroom to deal with the speakers' needs.
The Rogers amd the Autocostruire amplifier will fill my (21x17x9.5') room with an adequate volume level and I could be happy with the results on most music. As everyone else has discovered, the 2020 amplifier has a warmth that brings it much closer to my McIntosh tube amplifiers. But with the 3/5a's, the Macs, at about 90 watts X2, are the better choice. However, the 2020 amp will fill a desire for an everyday, almost 24/7 amplifier that will not use precious tube life. I haven't paired the Autocostruire amplifier with any of my pre amps as of yet, so there is still more experimentation to come.
I ordered a 12VDC, 5Ah VLRA which arrived yesterday and got placed in the system last night. (No switches, no cap.) The sound with the Rogers was immediately improved over the Duracell NiMH rechargeables I was using. Enough so to make me reconsider my plans and stay up another few hours listening. PRaT was improved to the point where my foot finally gave out. It really did sound like a difefrent amplifier had been placed in the system. The jump in performance from the stock $25 SI amp to the (slightly over $100 USD) Italian kit was one step forward. At this point, the change in power supply is another hurdle toward making the Autocostruire a bit more like the Macs.
So far the amplifier is stock and configured as instructed from Autocostruire. As I gather some more information regarding what I want to mod before the amplifier goes in an enclosure the next thing I'll do is to simply remove the output Zobel network and the diodes as suggested by Autocostruire in their "minimalist" version of the amplifier. This is a simple step I've not seen discussed in these pages. Have I just not found the information yet or does anyone have an opinion on the value ofretaining the above mentioned components? |
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