| Charlize, my thoughts - Click HERE for Original Thread |
| Andrewbee |
Okay,
I got my Charlize (air core inductors) and Monica about 2 weeks ago and have just got around to trying Charlize last night.
I built a quick Corian and Aluminium chassis for temporary use. I am using a Nad cd player and Jerico horns with Fe208 Sigma’s and a homemade FVP5 pre.
Charlize is battery powered. a 12V (12.7V) 9AH unit from a UPS, no caps or anything else.
Thoughts after only ~1 hour.
WOW.
The first 20 minutes were harsh but it suddenly cleared up and seems to have progressively improved for the short time it was on. While I did not compare to anything else last night I was impressed, clear and lucid, a bit forward sounding (but I like that) plenty bass (maybe too much) great separation and as others have said it almost makes a piano sound like a piano, great decay. Not at all strident like many a SS amp, more smooth.
I keep looking at this little board and listening to it and am bewildered, my prejudice is showing, its too small and cheap to sound like this!
When I consider that this amplifier costs about the same as a decent power transformer for a tube amp and its already built .....
Not all is well though, there is that turn on thump, very frightening seeing my drivers extending like that, I know that there is a fix for that but think it should have been incorporated into the design. I tried the separate switch for the mute but it made no difference.I am picking up a touch of R.F. but only in the left channel and it is very, very slight, I thought it may be because of my chassis but since its only the Left channel I doubt it but will know for sure when the permanent case is built. I only noticed it because I was listening to see how much noise if any the amp produced with my ears against the speakers, the noise is minimal and my speakers are very efficient so I consider the noise to be a non issue. I was also wondering is perhaps there may be a bit a bass lift in the ~ 50 -80 Hz range, maybe to help smaller speakers?
I am certainly looking forward to hearing this after a few hundred hours to see if I still enjoy it as much, or more.
I am presently trying to work out the conversion of a PC power supply to power it as Nuuk feels the SMPS is even better than a battery.
Hey Yeo! Nice job, Charlize should keep you and your partners busy, I may hit you up for another one, want to buy a tube amp or two?
Andrew |
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| bachiano |
Are you selling them - really ;-)
give me a call
Bachiano |
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| Nuuk |
Welcome to the Charlize fan club Andrew! Do try the 'series resistor' trick for reducing that turn-on thump to something insignificant. And if you use a rotary switch, it is very convenient!
I'm sitting here listening to Mal Wlaldron through Charlize and it may as well be a real piano at the other end of the room! :att'n:
BTW - what is a 'homemade FVP5 pre'? :xeye: |
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| Nuuk |
| quote: | | BTW - what is a 'homemade FVP5 pre'? |
I take it you mean this ! ;) |
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| Andrewbee |
Give that man a prize!
Yes, thats the animal and a fine one indeed.
Andrew |
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| dsavitsk |
I have an AMP1-B from 41Hz, and if this is to be believed, it must be far far worse than a Charlize. Either that, or my tube amps are way better than yours. For me there is no comparison and the tube amps are so much better than the class-t that it is hardly worth comparing.
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| bachiano |
just a hopeful opinion.
And it's only 90 bucks.
I've never liked solid state until now.
I think a merging of t-class & tube will be fun.
Bachiano |
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| Andrewbee |
Okay I’m back,
I had to go into work today although officially the island was locked down due to Hurricane Wilma.
Firstly, my remarks about asking Yeo if he wanted some tubes amps was “tongue in cheek” , how could I really make a decision like that in about an hour, …an hour and a half perhaps ;-)
I am not saying that the tube amps are or better or worse, many things are just different, I was just trying a little humor but if I say in a couple weeks that I prefer Charlize then so be it. My point is that Charlize is one sweet girl, the amp that is, the other Charlize is sweet as well but I have not yet heard her sing.
Dsavitsk, I cannot compare the 41Hz product against anything as I have never heard it and your tube amps may indeed be way better than mine, I have never heard them either. You posted a picture of what appears to be a DHT amp, looks to be a SE design (unless its some twin tube I have never seen before :-). I have been down that road many times with RC coupling and IT coupling, shunt and series feed, etc, and to be honest they are okay but I much prefer a SE Pentode in Pentode mode or better yet in “RH” mode especially an 807. I find DHT’s a bit boring so going by what I typed earlier as to what I like you might get an idea of my kind of sound, that’s if you have ever heard something like I described, many have not and go the way of most others with the SE DHT’s. I also have PP 2A3’s, 300B’s and EL34’s, KT88’s an inverted 3875 Gainclone
An AKSA 55W and a few more amps. Also a SE OTL by Transcendent Sound which is killer. I have even more speakers than amps and change equipment around every few months usually or when I want to hear a particular setup.
I have no problem that you prefer your tube amps to the 41HZ amps, only you know what you prefer and many people do enjoy the DHT sound, I still do but have found something that I prefer. BTW, does the 41HZ product have the turn on thump?
Also, the filter board in the picture of the t-amp, is it two separate channels? I see what appears to be 8 diodes in the front and lots of caps so it looks to me to be separated but with a single toroid. One more thing, the amp itself, I see what looks to be 4 large caps, 2 elco’s and 2 film types, are those the stock caps and do they come like that or is it some change you made to the board?
When I get some more time, and have put more time on Charlize (the amp that is, my wife may read this!) I will do some more listening. As it is now my favorite amp is my OTL seconded by my “RH mode” SE 807. The Charlize is not listed because its much too soon to say how it will rate against those that I know, but out the gate I am very impressed not only with the great sound but with the fact that you need not spend lots of time and money to get that great sound.
I got a PC power supply today, SMPS of course, an older AT style145W unit out of an older Compaq and have done the necessaries to it, tested it, and have it ready to join Charlize but that will have to wait for the weekend. Then it will be a chassis and the rotary switch with resistor fix, the new speakers, the lawn needs mowing, the hedge trimming, if it would just stop raining long enough I could at least start on the chassis …
Andrew |
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| dsavitsk |
| quote: | Originally posted by Andrewbee
Dsavitsk, I cannot compare the 41Hz product against anything as I have never heard it and your tube amps may indeed be way better than mine, I have never heard them either. You posted a picture of what appears to be a DHT amp, looks to be a SE design (unless its some twin tube I have never seen before :-).
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They are welborne labs drd 300b's
| quote: | Originally posted by Andrewbee
BTW, does the 41HZ product have the turn on thump? |
nope, though I always put it on mute when powering up or down so i don't really know.
| quote: | Originally posted by Andrewbee
Also, the filter board in the picture of the t-amp, is it two separate channels? I see what appears to be 8 diodes in the front and lots of caps so it looks to me to be separated but with a single toroid.
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It is essentially carlosfm's snubberized design. It is a single toroid with dual secondaries. Each set is rectified and smoothed with 10 x 1000uF panasonic FM caps.
| quote: | Originally posted by Andrewbee
One more thing, the amp itself, I see what looks to be 4 large caps, 2 elco’s and 2 film types, are those the stock caps and do they come like that or is it some change you made to the board? |
No, 41Hz supplies 2 x 330uF caos. I found that there was no bass to the amp. I replaced them at first with Nichicon Muse 470uF caps, but them upped them to 1500uF FC caps with 0.1uF film and foil bypasses. This brought out the bass in the amp, though my 300b's still go deeper and are fuller.
-d |
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| ChuckT |
The high power tripath is quite different to the lower power chips. The ta2020 output in push-pull mode while the higher power chip is single-end.
I am still trying to get sound out of my AMP6.:bawling: |
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| HolyGhostFire20 |
Hey Andrewbee
Since you have so many amps to compare to the Charlize amp, I was wondering if you could tell us your favorite amp out of all the amps you own so far. How does the SE-OLT compare to the Charlize amp? Are your favorite speakers full range drivers? I currently just own a modded Sonic Impact amp with Hammer Dynamic speakers which is a killer combination. |
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| Andrewbee |
| quote: | | I was wondering if you could tell us your favorite amp out of all the amps you own so far |
SE OTL
| quote: | | How does the SE-OLT compare to the Charlize amp? |
Too soon to tell, give me a while to find out.
| quote: | | Are your favorite speakers full range drivers |
Yes SE208 Sigma not the new EZ.
I am also a fan of the FE103 Fostex, not the RS 1197 wannabe
Andrew |
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| bachiano |
you said;
"am presently trying to work out the conversion of a PC power supply to power it as Nuuk feels the SMPS is even better than a battery."
What kind of SMPS are you thinking of getting.
I was running batteries and very happy.
Today I got a SMPS and was dissapointed - lack of dynamics and clarity - some sort of distortion that I can't put my finger on. :xeye:
went back and forth and everytime the SMPS sounded lacking.
Maybe the SMPS has to be a specific kind?
thanks
Bachiano |
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| Andrewbee |
Hi Bachiano,
The SMPS is in the post before yours with the link, its an old Compaq computer power supply. Its been playing for the last 2-1/2 hours and I have not been really listening to it, just letting Charlize break in. I took a very quick listen and might have detected a very slight difference but would not swear to it and my impression was opposite to yours. I thought the dynamics may have been improved and the sound a little more forward but again this was just a quick listen. I thought it sounded fine with the battery though, with more listening I will have a better feeling on the differences if any. Right now I just want to build some time on it.
How close to your amp was your SMPS and was it enclosed? Perhaps it was picking up some noise?
Andrew |
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| Andrewbee |
[QUOTE]Pretty in Pink! [/QUOTE
Thats my female side showing! I actually like Pink! |
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| bachiano |
I see it now - your PSU
No, mine it's not enclosed - it's naked and it was about two feet from Charlize.
I do hear a high frenquency switching noise coming from the supply. (12 - 15 volt@ 8 amps)
Is that normal ??? - I got it from a surplus place, so maybe it's not 100% healthy.
Bachiano |
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| sx881663 |
If you use a SMPS you do need to use a buffer/reservoir cap between it and the supply. This cap should be at least 10,000uf and mounted close to the amp module with short twisted wires connecting it. This stops most of the HF noise as well as improving short term regulation of the supply. If you are not doing this I can understand your disappointment.
Roger |
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| jcvalenz |
Hello,
I am new here (and to diy for that matter). Andre, I would like to know if you have any thoughts about the monica? Or have any other members tried it?
Thanks a lot, Juan |
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| Andrewbee |
I have a Monica 2 but have not tried it yet.
Andrew |
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| barfind |
Hi folks. I have just got my "charlize" Going. It has about 3 hours on it. I run from a 7ah SLA. I have 10,000uf caps feeding the amp from the battery. Sounds OK, lots of detail, but a bit polite. I am wondering if the low amps from the battrey is making it a bit laid back. What is the max amps that this chip can take. I thought I read somewhere it's about 28 amps. Maybe I need an AC supply giving charlize 13.8v and about 20 amps or so.
Any observations, recomendations. Charlize drives a pair of 100db OB's.
Nigel |
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| bachiano |
First - "Maybe I need an AC supply giving charlize 13.8v and about 20 amps or so."
NO NO NO - do not give Charlize AC or you will kill her. :whazzat:
Second - with the battery, take the cap off, and see how you like it.
If the cap is not fast, it will make the sound "polite"
I have Charlize and she is a sweety.
What kind of speakers do you have? What are OB's?
I am running Quad 57's and Charlize will only draw .5 amps at most with an orchestral tympany full blast.
If I have the pot 100% open, Charlize will break up trying to play that tympany.
I'm trying to figure out if it is the limit of Charlize or the PSU. I don't know yet.
But I'm leaning toward Charlize's limits.
My PSU will do 3 clean amps.
Hope that helps.
I don't thinks it is about the number of amps but about how fast those amps can be delivered.
You should have at least 0ne amp and you do!
Bachiano |
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| barfind |
| quote: | Originally posted by bachiano
[B]
NO NO NO - do not give Charlize AC or you will kill her. :whazzat:
Second - with the battery, take the cap off, and see how you like it.
If the cap is not fast, it will make the sound "polite"
What kind of speakers do you have? What are OB's?
My PSU will do 3 clean amps.
Hope that helps.
/B] |
Thanks bachiano. When I said AC power supply, I meant a properly regulated supply. Is this still a NO NO, or should I go with a switching power supply?
My Speakers are Visaton B200's in open baffle.
I will take the caps out and see if it makes a difference. Thanks
Nigel |
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| MrDodo |
Nigel,
You must try the SMPS with Charlize. My bet is that it will sound much better than battery.
I also bypassed the 10000uf cap with 480uf + 48uf + 4uf + 1uf + 0.1uf + 0.01uf. If it sounds overkill, it is.
Make sure that the small value caps are of high quality and placed close to the amp. Personally I use cannibalized caps from dead computer power supplies.
I hoped I had your Visaton B200 with my Monica2 and T-amp, you lucky man... except that then I would need another house to put the
Huge Open Baffle. |
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| barfind |
| quote: | Originally posted by MrDodo
Nigel,
You must try the SMPS with Charlize. My bet is that it will sound much better than battery.
I also bypassed the 10000uf cap with 480uf + 48uf + 4uf + 1uf + 0.1uf + 0.01uf. If it sounds overkill, it is.
Make sure that the small value caps are of high quality and placed close to the amp. Personally I use cannibalized caps from dead computer power supplies.
I hoped I had your Visaton B200 with my Monica2 and T-amp, you lucky man... except that then I would need another house to put the
Huge Open Baffle. |
MrDodo What is the SMPS? .I will try anything;)
Tell me , do you like your Monica2. What are you using for a transport. I am thinking of getting a Monica as well.
The B200 are superb, and can match the charlize in the detail department.
Nigel |
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| davee |
Hi, i'm running 2 Autocostruire amps bi-amping my Von Schweikert VR4.5 speakers (90db 6ohm)
For power supplies i use 2 NEMIC-LAMBDA switchmode power supplies (11-25v,2.8amps each) that i scored off ebay for $20.
I set them at 14.2v. They sound even better with these smpss than from battery or linear ps, i have tried them all too.
my Von Schweikert vr4.5 spkrs are big full rangers ,i have had 7 years. The sound i am getting from them with 2 Autocostruire amps and smpss is really superb .
:D
d |
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| MrDodo |
Nigel,
SMPS-> Switch Mode Power Supply. I know that Nuuk used to carry some. Does not know if he still have them and he's in UK.
I've seen SMPS at APEXJR very cheap, haven't tried them though. You can contact Steve Slater at steve.apexjr@prodigy.net to inquire. Nice guy, he's in US.
I guess that you'll be better off getting it locally. For my part I import most of my stuff coz I'm in Mauritius and most of the time I get: Mauritius, where's that?
The Monica2 is real smooth. Some don't like NOS Dac. I kinda like them, just a matter of taste. I think that Nuuk used one for the TNT review of the different t-amps but he wouldn't say so. |
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| barfind |
| quote: | Originally posted by davee
Hi, i'm running 2 Autocostruire amps bi-amping my Von Schweikert VR4.5 speakers (90db 6ohm)
For power supplies i use 2 NEMIC-LAMBDA switchmode power supplies (11-25v,2.8amps each) that i scored off ebay for $20.
I set them at 14.2v. They sound even better with these smpss than from battery or linear ps, i have tried them all too.
my Von Schweikert vr4.5 spkrs are big full rangers ,i have had 7 years. The sound i am getting from them with 2 Autocostruire amps and smpss is really superb .
:D
d |
Thanks davee. I will try the smps. Thanks for your input. Where in the northern Rivers are you?
Nigel |
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| barfind |
Mrdodo, Thanks fore the explantion. I thought that this amp was a switching device???? Howcome a switching PS works so well with them. Is a high amp output a better idea, or anything above 1.5 amps doesn't matter
Nigel |
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| MrDodo |
No idea why the swith Mode PS sound better.
I just tried SMPS and found that it is better, like some ppl in this forum suggested. I never tried Battery, too lazy to recharge them etc. |
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| vt4c |
Andrew,
It's nice to heard from you again. Hope the storm has passed Cayman Islands.
Listening to Charlize?
Cheers,
VT4C |
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| Nuuk |
| quote: | | I think that Nuuk used one for the TNT review of the different t-amps but he wouldn't say so. |
I did use one (NOS DAC) and I think that I said so too! ;) |
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| jcvalenz |
| Nuuk... what are your thoughts on that NOS Dac? Thank you very much, Juan |
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| Nuuk |
| quote: | | Nuuk... what are your thoughts on that NOS Dac? Thank you very much, Juan |
Juan, I like both the NOS DACs that I have heard. I can't say more as one of them is the subject of my next TNT review (out soon I hope)! ;) |
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| Andrewbee |
Hi VT4C,
I am "cool", a little damage to the island but not too much, Wilma passed around 170 miles away.
Charlize is playing as I type, breaking in and still sounding like a lovely lass.
Andrew |
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| MrDodo |
The Monica2 as I found out quite low output and I sometimes need to open the 50K stepped attenuator full to really get decent volume.
Yesterday I decided to connect Monica2 directly to input of amp3.
Skipping one element can only be an improvement, so I thought.
But then I get a sort of pink noise on the left channel. Sort of waves breaking on the beach.
The right channel no noise.
Anyone tried hodrodding Monica2 yet? |
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| barfind |
I an looking at a 13.5v 18 amp SMPS. I like the idea of 13.5 v. I am not sure how many amps charlize will draw, but this supply will have it well covered. Is this overkill? I am thinking that this amp is worth the investment in a good power supply.
Any thoughts?
Nigel |
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| Nuuk |
| quote: | | The Monica2 as I found out quite low output and I sometimes need to open the 50K stepped attenuator full to really get decent volume. |
Mr Dodo, could you just refresh my memory as to your complete system when using Monica2? :att'n:
| quote: | | I an looking at a 13.5v 18 amp SMPS. I like the idea of 13.5 v. I am not sure how many amps charlize will draw, but this supply will have it well covered. Is this overkill? I am thinking that this amp is worth the investment in a good power supply. |
Nigel, I haven't tried 13.5 volts myself but the 12 volt/6 amp SMPS that I have been using seem more than adequate for a class-T amp! ;) |
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| MrDodo |
Nuuk,
Monica2 is usually connected to 50k stepped attenuator between 41hz amp3 with highest possible gain chosen. The amp3 then feeds an AE 89db(I think) loudspeaker. Added a Ribbon Foster superTweeter crossed with 1uf and attenuated with 3db lpad. Transport is usually Njoe Tjoeb or Sony DVD. |
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| Nuuk |
| quote: | | Monica2 is usually connected to 50k stepped attenuator between 41hz amp3 with highest possible gain chosen. The amp3 then feeds an AE 89db(I think) loudspeaker. Added a Ribbon Foster superTweeter crossed with 1uf and attenuated with 3db lpad. Transport is usually Njoe Tjoeb or Sony DVD. |
OK, that's what I thought! ;)
Now, when I fed the output of Monica2 into a 25K stepped attenuaor and then into one of the class-T amps, I often found that I didn't have enough volume. So I added a buffer between the attenuator and class-T amp and now it is loud enough. And guess what - the buffer has no gain! :eek:
So do you have a buffer or active pre that you can try this with? I would like to hear if somebody else has the same results! :o |
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| MrDodo |
Nuuk,
No buffer nor active pre on hand.
Just waiting for your review of tube pre for t-amps to get one :)
What bothers me is the sound of breaking waves/ sweeping noise on ONE channel when I connect Monica2 to amp3 directly. If this is an impedance problem, should have been on both channels, no?
I have a another amp3 lying around that I could check to see if I get the same problem. |
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| Nuuk |
| quote: | | What bothers me is the sound of breaking waves/ sweeping noise on ONE channel when I connect Monica2 to amp3 directly. If this is an impedance problem, should have been on both channels, no? |
Most logically, this sounds like a poor connection! :att'n:
| quote: | | No buffer nor active pre on hand. |
That's a pity! The Les Sage buffer is very easy to build but you would still need the PSU! :( |
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| skyraider |
I hooked up my monica2 to a 12b4 linestage and it drives the gainclone quite well. Apart from the small microphonics, it doesnt lose too much of the transparent qualities of monica2. Treble is slightly airier.
I dont have the charlize on hand, but i THINK it should work as well. |
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| barfind |
| quote: | Originally posted by Nuuk
Nigel, I haven't tried 13.5 volts myself but the 12 volt/6 amp SMPS that I have been using seem more than adequate for a class-T amp! ;) |
Thanks Nuuk. I suppose 13.5v might be the differents for the air ciols in the dynamics department. I am just finding it to be to polite. Plenty of detail. At the moment its not still not my el34ppp. But I am willing to invest the time and money to see if it can be
;)
Nigel |
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| davee |
| quote: | Originally posted by barfind
Thanks davee. I will try the smps. Thanks for your input. Where in the northern Rivers are you?
Nigel |
No worries, I am near Byron Bay, if your ever up this way come and have a listen!
| quote: | Originally posted by barfind
I an looking at a 13.5v 18 amp SMPS. I like the idea of 13.5 v. I am not sure how many amps charlize will draw, but this supply will have it well covered. Is this overkill? I am thinking that this amp is worth the investment in a good power supply.
Any thoughts?
Nigel |
!3.5 volts is ok but 18 amps is waay overkill.
I did try one of my Autostruire 2020 amp on a big Lab ps i have that outputs up to 40 amperes but the ps digital display never showed more than a 2.2 ampere max draw .
The nemic lambda smps (ebay $20 a pr from WA) i use now are 2.8 amps max and actually sounds better than the big lab supply did. (more open and better deep bass)
dave e |
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| barfind |
| quote: | Originally posted by davee
No worries, I am near Byron Bay, if your ever up this way come and have a listen!
!3.5 volts is ok but 18 amps is waay overkill.
I did try one of my Autostruire 2020 amp on a big Lab ps i have that outputs up to 40 amperes but the ps digital display never showed more than a 2.2 ampere max draw .
The nemic lambda smps (ebay $20 a pr from WA) i use now are 2.8 amps max and actually sounds better than the big lab supply did. (more open and better deep bass)
dave e |
Hi dave e . Thanks. Yes I know 18amps will be overkill
:smash:
I just like the 13.5v thing. I will look around more because its $230 as well. We go to the Gold coast evry now and then. Next time we come up I stop and have a listen. Thanks for the invite:cool:
Nigel |
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| HolyGhostFire20 |
Hey Andrewbee
How is your Charlize amp breaking in? I am trying to decide between buying the SE-OLT and the Charlize. Can you tell me the weakness and strengths of each of these amps. Thanks so much for your time, Kevin. |
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| MrDodo |
I have read that the t-amps, amp3, charlize ... invert phase. Is it so?
And also that Monica2 also inverts phase.
So that if I use both of them in the same chain I get the original phase, right? |
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| Nuuk |
| quote: | | I have read that the t-amps, amp3, charlize ... invert phase. Is it so? |
You may have told me something useful there Mr Dodo. While I have been listening to all this new stuff, ie class-T amps andMonica2 DAC, I have found myself constantly wanting to change the phase on my subs! That would explain why!
The strange thing that I have found with the class-T amps is that there is very little difference whichever way I have the subs connected whereas with the GC's, it is quite audible which is the correct phase! :att'n: |
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| panomaniac |
The Tripath is indeed an inverting amp. All the documentation says so. I've had a look at the output on a scope and can confirm this.
But it's not quite so simple. Phase seems to shift around dependant on frequency. Running a 20-20KHz sweep and looking at phase will startle you! It's all over the place. Maybe that's why the sub phase doesn't seem as out of place to you.
Earlier this year I was discussing this with Scott Nixon who said that he had noticed it too, but that it didn't seem to effect the sound. Curious.....
Maybe as I dig deeper into filters I will test filter phase too. |
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| Nuuk |
| quote: | | But it's not quite so simple. Phase seems to shift around dependant on frequency. Running a 20-20KHz sweep and looking at phase will startle you! It's all over the place. Maybe that's why the sub phase doesn't seem as out of place to you. |
Thanks Michael, that goes a long way to explaining what I have been experiencing with the subs! It is curious though as Scott says (and way beyond my understanding anyway)! :xeye: |
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| MrDodo |
Yes, of course. That's why the phase switch on the sub did not seem to be working.
Ok, now I'm not sure what to think about it anymore. If Monica2 reverse the phase and then the Class-T spread it all over the place then... it doesn't matter anymore, or does it? |
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| panomaniac |
| quote: | | [i... it doesn't matter anymore, or does it? [/B] |
Well yes, it should. Certainly around the sub crossover frequency it would/should.
My look at phase was just a brief one and I was looking more at differential output phase than input/output phase.
I'll try to have a more complete look and post what I find. |
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| Andrewbee |
| quote: | | I am trying to decide between buying the SE-OLT and the Charlize. Can you tell me the weakness and strengths of each of these amps. |
The weakness of the SE OTL is the low power but on the correct speakers it is no longer a weakness:D
It is simply a fantastic amp.
The Charlize is still breaking in. The bass which I found too prominient at first no longer seems that way. I don't think the bass has disappeared but maybe the mids have come out some more, at any rate it is now sounding more balanced.
Charlize still does not have many hours on her so it is still too early to make a comparison but I can safely say I cannot find anything wrong with the sound thus far. I am still using the smps from the PC but plan on trying another smps.
The only fault they both may have is that they are so inexpensive that
many people will dismiss them (their loss).
Andrew |
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| Andrewbee |
Just ordered some goodies from Steve at Apexjr.com including two 12V@6.3A SMPS which costs just US$12.50 each and some caps 10000uF@63V US$1.50 so for anyone sitting on the fence regarding an SMPS there is no reason not to try it at these prices.
I am still using my PC SMPS so will be able to compare them when the new one arrives.
Andrew |
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| vt4c |
| quote: | | The only fault they both may have is that they are so inexpensive that many people will dismiss them (their loss). |
Andrew,
You hit the nail right on its head. :smash: |
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| Nuuk |
| quote: | | The only fault they both may have is that they are so inexpensive that |
The same could be said for the Gainclone. Perhaps that is why the original Gaincard amplifiers were priced as high as they were! :att'n: |
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| barfind |
I have rebuilt my Charlize. Removed the 10,000uf caps , and installed a better on/off switch. This fixed the percecption that this amp is a bit polite. All I can say is WOW. This is an amazing amp. I am hearing things in every track, and it just makes the instruments sound real. Highly recomended. The best amp I have owned. My B200's OB just love it.
Happy Nigel |
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| jcvalenz |
Hi Nuuk,
Thank you very much for your reply. Hope to see your review soon :)
Juan |
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| jcvalenz |
Nuuk,
I'm sorry to bug you so much... ;)
Excuse my ignorance... but what is a buffer? (to put between the attenuator and the amp)
Thanks Again, Juan |
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| kanaddict |
| quote: | Originally posted by barfind
I have rebuilt my Charlize. Removed the 10,000uf caps , and installed a better on/off switch. This fixed the percecption that this amp is a bit polite. All I can say is WOW. This is an amazing amp. I am hearing things in every track, and it just makes the instruments sound real. Highly recomended. The best amp I have owned. My B200's OB just love it.
Happy Nigel |
Hi,
I just want to be sure that I understand well what you said. You were using a 10,000 uf caps as a reservoir (located just before Charlize) and now the psu is directly hooked to Charlize ?
Your experience is relevant for me as I use a 10 000uf + 1000 uf as reservoir and find Charlize performance to be different then what it was before I added the caps. I still have to find the time to compare the sound of both configurations and see if the difference is real and what I prefer.
Thanks ! |
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| barfind |
| quote: | Originally posted by kanaddict
Hi,
I just want to be sure that I understand well what you said. You were using a 10,000 uf caps as a reservoir (located just before Charlize) and now the psu is directly hooked to Charlize ?
Your experience is relevant for me as I use a 10 000uf + 1000 uf as reservoir and find Charlize performance to be different then what it was before I added the caps. I still have to find the time to compare the sound of both configurations and see if the difference is real and what I prefer.
Thanks ! |
Yep 10,000 (4600+4600+800) before Charlize. I didn't like it. Took away rythem and pace. Also put a better switch to handle the current. Great now.
Nigel |
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| kanaddict |
| quote: | Originally posted by barfind
Yep 10,000 (4600+4600+800) before Charlize. I didn't like it. Took away rythem and pace. Also put a better switch to handle the current. Great now.
Nigel |
Thanks Niegel !
For the moment, it's the bass that seem to have changed when adding the caps. But, I can't say for sure if the change is linked to the caps because it took me a few days to really take attention to that. I'll try to compare the sound of the two configurations (with and without the caps) next weekend.
I'll post the result for the benefit of all !
Regards, |
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| Nuuk |
| quote: | | Excuse my ignorance... but what is a buffer? (to put between the attenuator and the amp) |
It's an electronic circuit that has a high input impedance and a low output impedance.
It helps when you have one item, ie a DAC that needs to work into a high impedance circuit but the second item, eg Charlize has a low input impedance. I hope that makes sense as impedance matching seems to be a difficult concept to understand for beginners. :att'n: |
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| dede |
| I'am interrested by the buffer question. I use charlize in a little bit different configuration, i mean i havn't got pré... I use this sound card as source www.maxioxd.com and i controle volume by software. The outpout impedance of the dac is 110 ohms. Does a buffer could be an improvement in my situation? |
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| Nuuk |
| quote: | | Does a buffer could be an improvement in my situation? |
I honestly don't know Dede! ;) |
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| D1 |
Soft Start + Pot Wiring : Out of my Depth with "Charlize"
Greetings All - New to DIY / Electronics & forums ; following these threads with interest . Expecting "Charlize" soon , & would very much appreciate advise .
While the posts are clear to many - the "electronically illiterate" may require photos / labelling / schematics to ensure she is happy .
vt4c wrote :
"The 'soft-start' circuit will eliminate the turn-on pop entirely.
All you need to do it to connect a 240 - 280 ohms, 1/2W resistor across the positive supply line. Turn the Charlize on via the resistor and then bypass the resistor after that. I did mine using a selector switch. Off (position 1) -> supply via resistor (position 2) ->
bypass resistor and supply direct to Chalize (position 3) "
In my case "Charlize" will be singing through Mission 762i - 92dB
& 8 Ohm "bookshelf" speakers which will not appreciate a good thumping . Nor can we have her singing off key due to my lack of wiring / layout knowledge .
So a four pole switch [ I see "contact rating 150mA @ 240VAC " ] is on the way from my supplier + resistors + 50k log double gang 9mm square pot ( cheap ) 0.02w is all I could obtain [ attenuator / replacement later ] .
Is it possible for a post with correct layout / wiring as DonJuan has said that the pot is Not to be tied to ground , & it is difficult to see from his photo exactly how to set this up when he has used the mute switch . I note varied topology , including fuses etc - how would you do a "Charlize" layout .
Personally as this is my first diy , & there is only one chance to get it right , photos + further direction is appreciated . It is understood that this is very simple when you know how , so please have patience for those who are inexperienced in this field .
Many thanks for your assistance & clear photos of your "Charlize". |
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| sx881663 |
| quote: | Originally posted by dede
I'am interrested by the buffer question. I use charlize in a little bit different configuration, i mean i havn't got pré... I use this sound card as source www.maxioxd.com and i controle volume by software. The outpout impedance of the dac is 110 ohms. Does a buffer could be an improvement in my situation? |
Dede,
The basic buffer shown has rather high output impedance so there wouldn’t be any gain there. Adding extra cables, parts and power supplies into the mix should only be done to fix a real problem. Only then would you note an improvement in sound. In your case I doubt it would help and might actually hurt.
In Nuuk’s case he stated he was fixing an impedance mismatch so this did help.
Roger |
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| dede |
| Thanks a lot guys, i will stay like i 'am. I fact, the couple maxio charlize match already pretty good, but we never know... i'am still looking for improvement ;) |
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| panomaniac |
| quote: | Originally posted by barfind
I have rebuilt my Charlize. Removed the 10,000uf caps |
Well Nigel, must say this is very odd. I don't know how it could work that way. What are you using as power upstream of the 10,000uF you removed?
In my amps I use a 10,000uF Nichicon "Gold Tune" both before and after the regulated supply. I find that it helps the amp. With the cap I get more bass, more dynamics and a more stable sound stage.
If I look at the power supply rail the addition of the big cap reduces voltage fluctuation to just a few mV. A more constant supply should be better, no?
The Gainclone crowd often writes about not liking too much capacitance in the PSU. That goes against all my training and experience, so I'm skeptical...
I will rig up an amp with a 10,000uF cap that can be switched in and out of the circuit and have a listen.
Anyone else care to try? |
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| barfind |
| quote: | Originally posted by panomaniac
Well Nigel, must say this is very odd. I don't know how it could work that way. What are you using as power upstream of the 10,000uF you removed?
In my amps I use a 10,000uF Nichicon "Gold Tune" both before and after the regulated supply. I find that it helps the amp. With the cap I get more bass, more dynamics and a more stable sound stage.
If I look at the power supply rail the addition of the big cap reduces voltage fluctuation to just a few mV. A more constant supply should be better, no?
The Gainclone crowd often writes about not liking too much capacitance in the PSU. That goes against all my training and experience, so I'm skeptical...
I will rig up an amp with a 10,000uF cap that can be switched in and out of the circuit and have a listen.
Anyone else care to try? |
Hi Micheal, strange but true. I am running charlize with a 7ah SLA, nothing between it and the amp except the on/off switch. O well must be the way I held my mouth :)
Nigel |
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| kanaddict |
| quote: | Originally posted by panomaniac
Anyone else care to try? |
As I said, I'll compare the two configuration this weekend ;) |
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| Nuuk |
| quote: | | Hi Micheal, strange but true. I am running charlize with a 7ah SLA, nothing between it and the amp except the on/off switch. O well must be the way I held my mouth |
Ron Clark found the same thing with his battery powered Gainclones! I think he settled for something like 6.8 uF on each pin of the chip! :att'n: |
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| panomaniac |
Well I hope it's not too O.T., but I was finishing a buffer today, BB OP2134.
It has 50uF on each leg near the chip.
Listening to it via head phones (it's a great HP amp) I tried 12V battery, then 12V regulated PSU with 8,000uF on the regulated side.
Going from bare battery to PSU gave a nice rich sound. The sound stage seemed to move away from my ears and the space got bigger. Much more pleasant.
The OP2134 doesn't draw much current, so it's hard to compare to a Tripath chip running speakers. Weekend testing will be interesting. :cheerful: |
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| kanaddict |
| quote: | Originally posted by kanaddict
For the moment, it's the bass that seem to have changed when adding the caps. But, I can't say for sure if the change is linked to the caps because it took me a few days to really take attention to that. I'll try to compare the sound of the two configurations (with and without the caps) next weekend.
I'll post the result for the benefit of all !
Regards, |
Hi,
I finally found the time to compare both configuration and guess what….the caps are out of the case :smash:
Without the caps, the amp sound more dynamic with a more present bass. This is not like night and day, but still easy to notify for educated ears :hphones:
Thanks again Niegel !
:witch: :witch: :witch: |
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| barfind |
| quote: | Originally posted by kanaddict
Hi,
I finally found the time to compare both configuration and guess what….the caps are out of the case :smash:
Without the caps, the amp sound more dynamic with a more present bass. This is not like night and day, but still easy to notify for educated ears :hphones:
Thanks again Niegel !
:witch: :witch: :witch: |
Hi kanaddict, I noticed the same effect. My 100db OB's easily show up things like slow dynamics and pace. I am very happy with the amp with caps out. Each to their own, but I could not live with this amp with the caps in :)
Nigel |
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| bachiano |
I concur with you - I think you have to have speakers that can reveal these fine details.
I think that speakers that lack the ability to reproduce microdynamics / air will seem to do better with caps but IMO only bacuse it makes the sound fatter and slower, giving the impression that there is more there ( probaly with small speakers that have a limited dynamic range anyway). But with HDef speakers It is obvious that it just creates a slow blotted sound.
Of course the prob. could be the caps themselves - but them you have to go around playing with different caps and that can get $$$.
IMHO caps only color and slow things down - You have to get into expensive caps for the color to be nice and the timing relaxed without losing speed.
Remember post #25
Bachiano |
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| KT |
| quote: | Originally posted by barfind
I am very happy with the amp with caps out. Each to their own, but I could not live with this amp with the caps in :)
Nigel |
Are you guys talking about the cap across the power supply rail, or the input/output signal caps?
Thanks,
KT |
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| bachiano |
We're talking Rail - adding capacitance to improve current delivery. but large caps tend to be slow. That's why they get paralleled with small value caps.
Large capacitance does not guarantee fast current delivery.
This is speculation on my part but I'll give it a shot anyway:
Take a cap and measure the voltage as it is charging. Time how long it took to charge and that will be the current delivery speed for that cap.
We've been talking about Charlize who at max I've only seen her draw .5 amps - Why would you need 10000uf ? Only if you PS can't deliver .5 amps or if your supply is dirty and you need to clean it up some more.
In my setup no matter what type of PS I put in front of Charlize, she always sounds clean.
So she does a great job at rejecting garbage from cheap PSU's.
The coloration and timing effects apply even more to the input and output caps.
Bachiano |
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| BWRX |
| quote: | Originally posted by amolan
Any other good choice?
Cheers,
Alexandre. |
Check out some extra regulator boards I'm selling here.
You would still need to add a transformer and bridge rectifier (or get yourself a higher voltage and current wall-wart to supply the unregulated DC input) but could make a nice adjustable, regulated supply with that board and about $15USD in parts plus your time to solder the parts onto the board.
That's a bit cheaper than $59USD for the Autocostruire PSU and could have a higher current capability than the Radio Shack unit.
I can even write up a digikey parts list of the components I used on my boards if you're interested.
Brian |
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| amolan |
Hi Brian,
Thank's for your offer but I have no skills to do it, I need a assembled solution.
Alexandre. |
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| Andrewbee |
I am still awaiting my goodies from Apexjr via snail mail, hopefully they will be here by the weekend.
I have not heard much change in Charlize. The only change is in me, I am now wondering why should I bother with building tube stuff anymore.
A quick comparison with my SE 807 amp and the 807 is a bit "richer" sounding in the mids but the tube is not as clear and dare I say honest as Charlize.
I think I am smitten by her!
Andrew |
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| bachiano |
I think I'm feeling the same thing :bigeyes:
Although I have to say that after puttting a tube preamp in front of Charlize I'm even Happier.
But then again - That might be an indication that I need a better source.
Bachiano |
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| KT |
How long have you guys burned in your Charlize amps for? And what kind of speakers are you using?
I am running a Charlize with a tube pre, and I have noticed some change to the sound with about 60 or 70 hours on it so far. I'm hoping that it will settle in further because although it sounds very, very good, I don't feel that it's quite there, yet.
It's amazing how good it sounds considering the module is only around $90, though.
KT |
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| Andrewbee |
I have maybe 50 hours or so, the speakers I use etc are in my original post which started this thread. I am now using an SMPS from a computer and awaiting 2 more.
Andrew |
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| barfind |
| quote: | Originally posted by KT
How long have you guys burned in your Charlize amps for? And what kind of speakers are you using?
I am running a Charlize with a tube pre, and I have noticed some change to the sound with about 60 or 70 hours on it so far. I'm hoping that it will settle in further because although it sounds very, very good, I don't feel that it's quite there, yet.
It's amazing how good it sounds considering the module is only around $90, though.
KT |
I use a tube pre as well. This setup sounds awsome on my B200 OB's
Nigel |
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| bachiano |
As I said before.
"puttting a tube preamp in front of Charlize I'm even Happier.
But then again - That might be an indication that I need a better source."
So, if we like Charlize, but its a little to bright the tube will soften it a bit.
Or maybe, our source is to bright and the tube preamp softens is a bit as well.
It will be interesting to try various sources to see if the preamp is really needed.
Another thought is that originally I ran Charlize straight with just a 100k pot.
When I added the Preamp; "IT" has a 10K pot.
I've notice that there is a sweet spot for both pots.
Charlize's pot is set 50% open and the preamp is set 60% open.
This give me the best presence from the combo.
So, I think this may be an issue of matching impedance and not necessarily of the preamp sounding better.
Bachiano :confused:
P.S. I've heard that charlize's input impedance may be around 20kohm. is this correct??? |
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| Nuuk |
| quote: | | P.S. I've heard that charlize's input impedance may be around 20kohm. is this correct??? |
If you are using an active stage AFTER the pot/attenuator, that sets the output impedance of the pre-amp, ie it isolates the pot.
If you are using one of the NOS DACs, it is better to use a pot/attenuator with an impedance of 20K or higher! :att'n: |
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| bachiano |
"If you are using an active stage AFTER the pot/attenuator, that sets the output impedance of the pre-amp, ie it isolates the pot"
My preamp has two Outputs one 10K and the other 800 ohm.
I'm using the High impedance now ( cause I was driving some old Altecs El34s )
but I'll try the low as soon as I can.
"If you are using one of the NOS DACs, it is better to use a pot/attenuator with an impedance of 20K or higher! "
No - Not using NOS DAC but getting one soon - so I'll Keep that in mind.
"20k or higher" How much higher? and Why?
Thanks
Bachiano |
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| kanaddict |
| quote: | Originally posted by bachiano
"
"20k or higher" How much higher?
Bachiano |
Hi,
I use a 25K stepped attenuator and the result is very good.
I don't feel the need to put an active preamp in front of Charlize.
With the 25K pot, it sound as good as my tube amp (Rogue Tempest Magum with KT-90 type II).
Regards,
Daniel |
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| Nuuk |
| quote: | | 20k or higher" How much higher? and Why? |
Yes, as Daniel says, 25K seems to be fine and that's what I use too. But I do find that Charlize doesn't work as well fed directly from the 25K attenuator as she does with a buffer between them! :att'n: |
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| bachiano |
I'll try it both ways and post my results.
Thanks Guys
Bachiano :cool: |
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| KT |
| quote: | Originally posted by KT
I am running a Charlize with a tube pre, and I have noticed some change to the sound with about 60 or 70 hours on it so far. I'm hoping that it will settle in further because although it sounds very, very good, I don't feel that it's quite there, yet. |
The more Charlize burns in the more impressed I am with it.
Just a few days ago it reached a point where some of the cloudiness cleared up, but then there was a slight thinness to the sound as well as a subtle but irritating tizziness in the treble. Also, the whole frequency range hadn't jelled - a little incohesive.
Today I can tell these things are working themselves out. The tizziness is much reduced and the sound has integrated to a point where I can relax to it. I think it still has a bit of burn-in, yet, but it's much better today. It's doing things very well, but I think it needs to reach a point of better cohesion before it matches the Gaincard - can and will it get there?
I agree with Nick that the sound is not quite as emotionally invovling as a Gaincard/Gainclone. The Charlize does do that Tripath psychedelic detail thing very well, though. I'd say this effect on the Charlize is not as captivating as on a modified Sonic Impact T-amp, but the Charlize is much better balanced and much more listenable than the SI T-amp overall. I'd say the Charlize sound falls somewhere between the Gaincard and the SI T-amp.
We'll see how it settles as it burn in more, but what a great deal this amp is!
Best,
KT |
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| amolan |
Hi Guys,
I will use Charlize without preamp, and I'm already have a alps pot 50k, it's ok ?
Thanks,
Alexandre. |
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| Nuuk |
| quote: | | I will use Charlize without preamp, and I'm already have a alps pot 50k, it's ok ? |
You can try it Alexandre - it won't do any harm. But I suspect that you won't be hearing Charlize at her best! :(
Without a buffer stage, I wouldn't want to go higher than 10K for the attenuator/pot! :att'n:
KT, at the risk of de-railing the whole class-T thing, I have to say that I have gone back to my Gainclone and quite honestly enjoy it more than any of the class-T amps, even if it is not as good in some ways, it is just more enjoyable! :eek:
I'm looking forward to trying the class-T's with a valve pre though, so the motto here is 'never say never'! :) |
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