| 1543 |
http://electronics.dantimax.dk/Kits/index.html
Does anybody know if the Relay Volume Attentuator Boards from Dantimax will work properly with Aleph P1.7?
I'am using Kristians Aleph P1.7 PCB's in unbalanced mode and want to use a kind of ready solution for volume control (output).
The RelVol1 has a constant input impendance, the RelVol2 has only 26 steps. Have I only to change the
resistors in this circiut so that they match the Aleph's needs (2 oder 5 K) or is there something else I have to
consider due to the constant input impendance.
Regards
Arne |
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| wuffwaff |
Hi,
you could use the volume board 1 with 64 steps and a 5k input impedance. A 5k pot also has a constant input impedance if you connect the output on the wiper (as in BOSOZ) so there should be no problem here. You will need 4 boards though if you want to keep it balanced or change the boards to work as a balanced output attenuator (shunt).
William |
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| mcs |
| quote: | Originally posted by wuffwaff
You will need 4 boards though if you want to keep it balanced |
Why four boards? Do you need more than two channels? The boards are two-channel or balanced single-channel. I have a balanced version also, but I haven't tested it properly yet, so it isn't "released".
Best regards,
Mikkel C. Simonsen |
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| dw8083 |
Hi Mikkel,
When would teh balanced version be available? Is it a constant impedance design?
One comment about your website. It would be nice to bundle recommended components together in a solution for one price.
There are lots of people who are going to build Kari's XBosoz boards very soon, and offering a quantity deal on a balanced version of a relay attuenator, relay input selector, controls, and LCD display.
Just my $.02 worth,
-David |
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| mcs |
| quote: | Originally posted by dw8083
When would teh balanced version be available? Is it a constant impedance design? |
I think it is ready - I just have to test it thoroughly to make sure the performance is as good as the standard type. It's the same circuit as the RelVol1, just using smaller relays (and twice as many).
| quote: | | One comment about your website. It would be nice to bundle recommended components together in a solution for one price. |
It's just hard to figure out what to bundle. I'm not sure I have ever sold the same bundle twice yet :)
| quote: | | There are lots of people who are going to build Kari's XBosoz boards very soon, and offering a quantity deal on a balanced version of a relay attuenator, relay input selector, controls, and LCD display. |
I think Illusus is planning a group buy.
Best regards,
Mikkel C. Simonsen |
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| dw8083 |
| quote: | Originally posted by dw8083
There are lots of people who are going to build Kari's XBosoz boards very soon, and offering a quantity deal on a balanced version of a relay attuenator, relay input selector, controls, and LCD display.
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Hi Mikkel,
Would the GB using your products for for Kari's xBosoz boards have a configuration as quoted above or using your current products?
-David |
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| mcs |
Apart from the balanced version of the relay attenuator it doesn't differ from the standard products as far as I can see. I guess the groupbuy could include whatever people want - different combinations would be no problem.
Many of the parts for the different boards are the same, so even if many different boards were ordered I could still order the parts in large quantities.
Best regards,
Mikkel C. Simonsen |
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| Illusus |
Sorry for the delay on the GB thread...I've been very busy. My plan is to start a wiki featuring all of the related kits from Mikkel, you pick and choose the kits you want. The discount should be proportionate to the amount of kits in demand, therefore, some things may not carry much of a discount at all, ie. if only one person wants a certain display. I may limit the choice of kits slightly... you know how hard it is to choose when there are too many items on the menu...less is easier on the chef as well.
The balanced attenuator kit would be ideal at this time. I am paralleling two RelVol1 boards to get balanced operation. I have everything assembled but am waiting on Kari and Anthony's group buys. Since I have all the necessary part/board dimensions I may build my case early and use Mikkel's kits in passive mode and add the BOSOZ when they arrive.
Hopefully I'll have some time this week to start the thread and wiki. I'm very curious about the amount of parties interested in purchasing the kits. |
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| dw8083 |
Hi Bartek,
Should we wait until Mikkel publishes his balanced version? I'd rather have a single balanced unit.
I know folks build single ended versions of the Bosoz, but most build balanced input and output.
-David |
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| Illusus |
| quote: | | Should we wait until Mikkel publishes his balanced version? |
I'm thinking that as well. The balanced att. will, likely, be a hot item due to Kari's GB. |
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| mcs |
The wait may not be too long...
I have just tested the balanced board - sort of. My signal generator and voltmeter are not balanced, so I have only tested "half" the attenuator. I will build some small converter circuits during the weekend for more complete testing.
But it doesn't look bad so far. The board works as expected. I also tested the frequency response at some random steps. The "worst" position I found was 40 (-23dB) - the -3dB point was at 430kHz... At 30 (-33dB) the -1dB point was at 400kHz - I couldn't find the -3dB point :)
Best regards,
Mikkel C. Simonsen |
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| bowdown |
Hi Mikkel just wandering if these kits can work with all pwer amps? i got a leach amp.
If they do what do i need to buy to get:
inputs both balanced and not balanced or even just not balanced
remote volume with a digital display
also is there a kit i can get to select 6/7ch inputs and also volume??
Regards
Bowdown |
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| 1543 |
Hi Mikkel,
what type of Relays do you use for the balanced version of the attenuator board. Are they special type for audio purposes?
What will be the difference in price between two unbalanced stereo boards and a stereo balanced version?
I am planning to built a multi-channel preamp with your modules (incl. volume control, Display and input selector) and Kristians P.7 PCB's.
Regards,
Arne |
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| mcs |
| quote: | Originally posted by bowdown
Hi Mikkel just wandering if these kits can work with all pwer amps? i got a leach amp. |
Yes they can - but then it doesn't really belong in this thread... :)
| quote: | If they do what do i need to buy to get:
inputs both balanced and not balanced or even just not balanced
remote volume with a digital display |
Input1 or Input2 (unbalanced/balanced), and one or two of the attenuator boards. To control it either VolControl3 (primitive version) or Control2 (less primitive version).
| quote: | | also is there a kit i can get to select 6/7ch inputs and also volume?? |
Inputs? In plural? The cheapest 6-channel volume control would be a 6-channel motorised pot. You can also use as many attenuator boards as needed (and more than one input selector board if needed). For multi-channel setups you need the Control2 though (unless you use an InputVol1, extra Input1s if needed, a motorised pot and a Control1).
Best regards,
Mikkel C. Simonsen |
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| mcs |
| quote: | Originally posted by 1543
Hi Mikkel,
what type of Relays do you use for the balanced version of the attenuator board. |
The ones I have currently are NEC UA-2. I also have some NAIS relays with a type number I can't decypher...
| quote: | | Are they special type for audio purposes? |
No. I don't think they exist (and if they do, they are probably re-labelled standard types with inflated prices to make more money on the audiophools... ;) - or am I wrong about this?). The relays I use are signal relays with gold-plated contacts. Many high-end manufacturers do the same, so I guess using signal/telecom relays is no problem.
| quote: | | What will be the difference in price between two unbalanced stereo boards and a stereo balanced version? |
The balanced version should be cheaper, but it depends on the relays. The list prices for the small relays are a lot higher than the standard-sized relays. So if I have to pay full price for the relays, the cost will probably be about the same. The relays I have now were quite cheap, but I only have about 150 pcs. You can see the relays here (on an old "experiment"): http://stiftsbogtrykkeriet.dk/~mcs/Attenuator.jpg
Best regards,
Mikkel C. Simonsen |
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| bowdown |
Hi Mikkel thanx for your quick reply. Just a few more questions if you dont mind, just so i get the right combination of items.
So make to make the control2 work i need the following stuff:-
C2Panel1-1 Front panel type 1 (1 encoder)
or
C2Panel1-2 Front panel type 1 (2 encoders)
+
C2Panel2 Front panel type 2
then to get everything to work i need the following:-
Input1 Input selector board
or
Input2 Input selector board
+
Relvol1 or Relvol2
+
any of the LCD display modules
Is there anything i am missing?
How is the volume controlled?
Is it remote controlled?
Is the volume/selectors push button or only rotary or both?
What rotary encoder do i have to get if i need one?
Mikkel thank you so much for all your info and time.
Regards
Bowdown |
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| mcs |
| quote: | Originally posted by bowdown
So make to make the control2 work i need the following stuff:-
C2Panel1-1 Front panel type 1 (1 encoder)
or
C2Panel1-2 Front panel type 1 (2 encoders)
+
C2Panel2 Front panel type 2 |
Yes.
| quote: | then to get everything to work i need the following:-
Input1 Input selector board
or
Input2 Input selector board
+
Relvol1 or Relvol2
+
any of the LCD display modules |
Yes. The displays are standard types, so you can use others as well.
| quote: | | Is there anything i am missing? |
No
| quote: | How is the volume controlled?
Is it remote controlled?
Is the volume/selectors push button or only rotary or both? |
The volume is controlled by one of the rotary encoders. The input selector can be either pushbutton or rotary encoder controlled. Everything is remote controlled as well.
| quote: | | What rotary encoder do i have to get if i need one? |
Do you need more than the one or two you get with the kit? :)
They are Alps 16mm encoders.
Best regards,
Mikkel C. Simonsen |
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| audio_cf |
If I have my own controll unit and just want the volume and input boards can I do that.?
Can I get the schematic or a specification of the interface to the boards?
///CF |
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| mcs |
| quote: | Originally posted by audio_cf
If I have my own controll unit and just want the volume and input boards can I do that.? |
Yes.
| quote: | | Can I get the schematic or a specification of the interface to the boards? |
The specification is probably simpler than the schematics :) - you get both in the manuals of course.
Both boards have an SPI port (or rather a '595). On the attenuator board 0x00 means full attenuation and 0x3f means full volume. On the input board bits 1-5 are inputs (1 = on, 0 = off), bit 6 is tape monitor, bit 7 is mute and bit 8 is for a spare relay output.
[edit]If you are talking about the RelVol2 board, I can include a table showing the different settings[/edit]
Best regards,
Mikkel C. Simonsen |
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| Illusus |
| One note for anyone considering purchising from Mikkel; go for it! although I've yet to implement and 'hear' my kit's I have them assembled and have not a single negative comment. They are very well thought through, the design is very clean and intuitive. There's nothing lacking in terms of options or configurability, ie. extra relay controls for whatever added controllable options you can dream up...My search for a good control solution was lengthy and i could not find anything in this class for any $ amount...maybe the Apox stuff but that ship has sailed. The quality is fantastic, especially for the price...just look at the balanced input board, it includes Neutrik's best XLR jacks, the telcom relays are of top quality and I bet they pass signal as well or better than any rotary switch. As soon as I finish my business 'must do' list I'm starting my personal 'to do' list which has my pre-amp project now at the top of it. I can hardly wait. |
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| mcs |
Thanks for the kind words Bartek!
I have made some more tests on the attenuator board now. It looks like the performance may be adequate for audio use :)
My test setup was this:
HP200CD oscillator (with floating transformer output) into the attenuator board. The balanced output from that went into a single op.amp. differential amp (I used ½ a 5532) to convert the signal to unbalanced. The output level was measured with a HP 334A.
The frequency response is worst at no attenuation for some reason (-3dB at 490kHz). I got the same value at 3dB attenuation. At the other points I measured (6dB att. and down) the -1dB point was at 290kHz or higher (higher than 600kHz at some positions).
These measurements were made on a low(ish) impedance attenuator (10k total input impedance). If you use higher impedance resistors the frequency response will deteriorate (or the channel separation will, if you use the attenuator for four channels instead of two balanced channel).
Best regards,
Mikkel C. Simonsen |
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| Illusus |
| IMO-as long as the frequency response starts drooping above 100kHz it's a non issue. |
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| mcs |
I thought I posted a picture of my prototype board here, but it seems to have disappeared. It is available here, if anybody wan't to have a look.
Best regards,
Mikkel C. Simonsen |
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| Illusus |
| Bad link, Mikkel. |
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| bowdown |
Hi Mikkel thanx for your info again. can i ask a couple more questions??? Hope im not being a pain.
Do you charge VAT to international buyers ( Australia )?
Do only the remotes you supply work with your kits or can i buy my own from here?
Thanx again - sorry to be a pain though!!
Regards
Bowdown |
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| mcs |
| quote: | Originally posted by Illusus
Bad link, Mikkel. |
Does that mean you can't access the webserver running on my home PC behind a firewall? :)
Here's an external link: picture
Best regards,
Mikkel C. Simonsen |
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| mcs |
| quote: | Originally posted by bowdown
Do you charge VAT to international buyers ( Australia )? |
No, but you have to subtract the VAT yourself. The shop software was originally made for Denmark only, and I haven't had time to "fix" that yet.
| quote: | | Do only the remotes you supply work with your kits or can i buy my own from here? |
No, most universal remotes should work. I have only had problems with some very cheap types (most of the cheap ones do work though).
| quote: | | Thanx again - sorry to be a pain though!! |
No problem.
Best regards,
Mikkel C. Simonsen |
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| bowdown |
Hi Mikkel just trying to change the pricing at the end of the order but i cant seem to put the ex V.A.T price in. the difference is quite significant too otherwise i wouldnt have worried too much about it. Please help me out so i can these beaut kits.
Regards
Bowdown |
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| bowdown |
Hey Mikkel sorry to bother you so much but was going to ask if the items i am going to purchase of you are all in kit form (i gotta put it together myself) or are they pre built and tested?? This is what i am going to buy from you.....for now ;)
Control2
C2Panel1-1
C2Panel1-2
C2Panel2
Input1
RelVol1
RelVol1RM
IRDet2
LCD24x2B
total ex V.A.T = 173.44 euros inc freight
total inc V.A.T = 214.64 euros inc freight
How can i change the price to ex V.A.T at the end of the order? I will be paying via B-Pay.
Regards
Bowdown |
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| mcs |
| quote: | Originally posted by bowdown
Hey Mikkel sorry to bother you so much but was going to ask if the items i am going to purchase of you are all in kit form (i gotta put it together myself) or are they pre built and tested?? |
They are kits - unless you want to pay me for assembling them (and wait untill I have the time to do so...). If you have done some PCB soldering before, these should be no problem to assemble.
| quote: | total ex V.A.T = 173.44 euros inc freight
total inc V.A.T = 214.64 euros inc freight
How can i change the price to ex V.A.T at the end of the order? I will be paying via B-Pay. |
You can't change the price to ex VAT, but all that happens is that you will get an order confirmation email with the amount 214.64 - you just pay 173.44 instead.
I have never heard of BPay, but from the website it looks like something that's Australian only. So unless BPay makes a transfer to my account, you probably can't use them. The website mentions that I should contact my bank, if I want to accept BPay payments - the only problem is, that I haven't got a bank account in Australia... ;)
Best regards,
Mikkel C. Simonsen |
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| bowdown |
Sorry Mikkel its paypal not Bpay( i use that to pay all my australian bills) sorry dunno what i was thinkin of, must have just been trippin out :xeye: .
Beautiful yeah i just wanted to make sure as id like to put them together myself. You do supply all the info and parts, right?
Regards
Bowdown |
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| bowdown |
oh and the programing on the chips are all done right?? this bit i cant really do as i dont know anythin about programing chips. But can always learn.
Cheers
bowdown |
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| mcs |
Yes, the chips (or rather chip) is programmed, and you get all the parts and info - unless I forget something :)
Best regards,
Mikkel C. Simonsen |
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| bowdown |
Hi Mikkel i ordered my stuff today and i got the confirmation email, do i have to do anything else now??
Let me know if i need to do anything else.
Regards
Bowdown |
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| mcs |
| quote: | Originally posted by bowdown
Hi Mikkel i ordered my stuff today and i got the confirmation email, do i have to do anything else now?? |
Pay? ;)
Just reply to the e-mail I sent you, and I will send you a total.
Best regards,
Mikkel C. Simonsen |
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| fcel |
I hear that the X-BOSOZ parts will be shipping out to GP diy members soon .....
Mikkel,
1) For balanced and unbalanced input selector. Is "Input 2" the right kit to use?
2) For balanced attenuator, is "RelVol3" the right kit to use? How come it does not come with resistors? Or rather, which kit is the resistors for the 10k balanced attenuators?
3) For display, which kit should I use - keeping in mind the above requirement?
4) For the remote control board to the display board, which kit is suitable? Is the hand held remote control included?
5) Is the transformer that you list under the accessories section suitable for powering the above kits? It's 120V here in USA.
6) Do I need anything else for a complete installation?
7) How much are the kits mentioned above in US dollars?
8) Shipping is still 3 to 5 days?
9) Do you accept payment by Paypal? |
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| dhole |
Hey there
I bought the relvol3 input2 and control1. I am very happy with them. The input is balanced and unbalanced. It switches with muting inbetween. For the vol you need to specify the resistance you want ie 10k. Powering is quite flexable and the kits all connect together so you only need to power the input board.
I am very happy with the kits and would recommend them.
dave |
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| mcs |
| quote: | Originally posted by fcel
1) For balanced and unbalanced input selector. Is "Input 2" the right kit to use? |
Yes, you have two balanced, three unbalanced and the unbalanced tape input on the Input2.
| quote: | | 2) For balanced attenuator, is "RelVol3" the right kit to use? How come it does not come with resistors? Or rather, which kit is the resistors for the 10k balanced attenuators? |
The RelVol3 is OK yes. It comes without resistors because some people want to use exotic $10 resistors rather than the standard metal films. If you want resistors for 10k, you just need two of the 10k resistor kits.
| quote: | | 3) For display, which kit should I use - keeping in mind the above requirement? |
For use with the Control2 you will need a 2*16 display or bigger.
| quote: | | 4) For the remote control board to the display board, which kit is suitable? Is the hand held remote control included? |
You can use the Control1 or Control2 with a frontpanel. The remote is not included, so you can either order one from me, or just use a normal universal remote.
| quote: | | 5) Is the transformer that you list under the accessories section suitable for powering the above kits? It's 120V here in USA. |
Yes, but you only really need the +5V supply. So a standard 6-12V AC or 8-15V DC wall-wart will work fine.
| quote: | | 6) Do I need anything else for a complete installation? |
No, I don't think so - if you make a list I can tell you if anything's missing. :)
| quote: | | 7) How much are the kits mentioned above in US dollars? |
1 euro is 1.24 USD today. You don't have to pay VAT, so look at the VAT-less prices.
| quote: | | 8) Shipping is still 3 to 5 days? |
Yes, from the time you order till it's shipped. I have a full-time job as well...
| quote: | | 9) Do you accept payment by Paypal? |
Yes.
Best regards,
Mikkel C. Simonsen |
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| fcel |
Mikkel,
Another question about the volume control .... I assume the volume is control by push button. Can it be done in such a way that I can control the volume by turning a knob? If you have not designed it yet, can you design it .... real quick? |
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| fcel |
Just to clarify what I mean by adjusting volume by turning a knob.
The first thing that came to my mind is the Mark Levinson ML38 pre-amp. To adjust volume, it has some kind of opto sensor (I think) to sense the rotational movement of the knob.
Can you - or should I say, do you want to - design something like ML38 to work with your attenuator board? |
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| fcel |
I've taken another look at the "Control2" kit.
1) Under the "type 2 front panel", it seems like it does exactly what I wanted - adjusting volume by turning the knob. Is that correct?
2) Also if I get type 2 front panel, do I still need to get type 1 front panel? |
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| mcs |
| quote: | Originally posted by fcel
1) Under the "type 2 front panel", it seems like it does exactly what I wanted - adjusting volume by turning the knob. Is that correct? |
Yes.
| quote: | | 2) Also if I get type 2 front panel, do I still need to get type 1 front panel? |
No, you need only one of them.
Best regards,
Mikkel C. Simonsen |
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| fcel |
One more question and that is it. I promise.
If I get Control 2, type 1 front panel, is/are the rotary encorder(s) included? I ask because rotary encorder is not shown in the picture for type 1. If it's not included, then I'll have to get type 2 front panel too to work with type 1 front panel? |
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| mcs |
The rotary encoders are included in both front panel types.
Best regards,
Mikkel C. Simonsen |
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| julius20 |
Hello,
I've got the possibility toget 50 NEC UA2-5NU Relais each 2 €, but I have to buy them all. Is there anybody interested in a view of them? Shipping should be only 2 or 3 Euros in Europe..! Just send an email: arno999@gmx.de
Greetings |
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