| phonon |
I picked up an old Marantz/Superscope CD-330 portable cassette deck at a yard sale for ~$1, in "not working" condition. On opening it up, it seems that the only problem is that the two main rubber drive belts had somehow become tangled together and twisted by the motor. The original belts are hopelessly stretched and mangled.
Where is a good place to get suitable replacement belts? Also, I am not quite sure where the original belts went, since the damaged belts were so stretched that they could fit around all the flywheels at once with slack to spare. It would be nice if someone knew about this cassette deck or had a service manual for it.
Thank you.
-Michael Mendenhall |
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| Triophile |
You should be able to get a service manual from Superscope themselves - I did for my CD-330 a few years ago, and it was free, including delivery to the UK, which goes down in my book as the best service I've ever had from any company, electronics or not. The quality of the photocopy isn't great, though, otherwise I'd offer to scan it in. Have a poke around on the web for the company, which I think may still be doing pro gear.
Cheers, Jon. |
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| moamps |
| quote: | Originally posted by phonon
I am not quite sure where the original belts went, since the damaged belts were so stretched that they could fit around all the flywheels at once with slack to spare. It would be nice if someone knew about this cassette deck or had a service manual for it. |
Hi,
I have SM. Please, send me an E-mail if you need more info's.
Regards,
Milan |
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| DragonMaster |
Triophile,
Superscope doesn't seem to still support these models. They build portable CD burners now.
moamps,
Should I ask Superscope before I ask you for the SM?
The problems I have/had:
-The counter doesn't turn ; the belts are loose.
-The recording level pot have broken PCBs. I'm working on this problem: About every pot PCBs are the same so I'll buy two pots and use the PCBs.
-The right VU wasn't moving well, I re-adjusted the screws.
-There are a couple of bits falling out each time I open it. (A metal U shaped object, a white 1/4" long white plastic philips "screw"(Seems to come from an adjustable cap or resistor. |
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| Triophile |
I wouldn't bother repairing this deck, to be honest. I had one which I thought sounded bad because it was clearly in need of some repair, but a second 330 I bought recently, this one in good condition, sounded just as bad. I'm afraid I have to say that, while the transport's pretty good, the deck as a whole sounds surprisingly bad, which I suspect is due to either inferior heads (only very light wear on my second example, and they were freshly cleaned and demagnetised) or poor electronics.
Cheers, Jon. |
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| DragonMaster |
| quote: | | I had one which I thought sounded bad because it was clearly in need of some repair, but a second 330 I bought recently, this one in good condition, sounded just as bad. |
All of these decks have some problems and break often. Maybe it's even the case of the second one.
My CD-330 is only able to give a good line out.(A lot better than my other tape deck) For a couple of time, the monitor speaker, the recording and the speaker outputs sound bad. I don't know if it's because it's falling in pieces, the design is poor or if Marantz got some fake Toshiba semiconductors.(They use mostly Toshiba parts)
I don't think the head is the problem. Permalloy ones are supposed to be good. |
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| DragonMaster |
| I read somewhere that most faults were caused by high ESR caps. Might be worth changing them to see if it solves problems. |
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| Triophile |
| As far as I'm aware, permalloy heads are normal quality. The better quality heads are amorphous, or a number of other types used by different manufacturers. |
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| DragonMaster |
| Do you know what? I think my Toshiba deck uses crappier heads than that. |
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| DragonMaster |
| Superscope still gives the SM free of charge. I've ordered one, just to see if I can do something with it. |
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| anatech |
Hi DragonMaster,
Permalloy = glass heads. They don't look like they wear, but they do. They also saturate very easily at lower levels. Because the highs are boosted so much in record, this is where they sound the worst.
I used to do waranty service on these and they weren't that bad, but they were a low cost line compared to Marantz. No, the Toshiba parts aren't fakes.
On any old deck, very carefully check the capstan bearing. If it is worn, it needs to be replaced or the deck is junk. Period. Failure of this bearing means the tape path is incorrect. That is something that is basic to the performance of the machine.
If you can find a Nakamichi BX series, or better, grab it and have it repaired properly. These sound the best of any machine. They put the best Teac machines behind them. Did warranty on both brands, so I know. I currently own Marantz, Nakamichi and Teac machines.
-Chris |
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| DragonMaster |
| quote: | | On any old deck, very carefully check the capstan bearing. If it is worn, it needs to be replaced or the deck is junk. |
I received the service manual a couple of days ago. Maybe it will help me know what the capstan bearing is!
| quote: | | If you can find a Nakamichi BX series |
Are these portable or not? It doesn't matter to me if it is or not. The CD-330 is staying at home. |
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| anatech |
Hi DragonMaster,
The CD-330 was one of the best portable machines ever. It has counter-rotating flywheels and is three head. I used to have one (still might somewhere). I really liked it.
The capstan shaft is the metal rod that turns the tape. The pinch roller rides against it with a reasonably high force. That's why the bearing gets worn quickly. Make sure it's lubricated in the bearing.
I was commenting on home machines, forgot that was a portable. If you ever get it set up it will sound pretty good. The factory tape was TDK-SA. If your highs are low and tape path is good, try Maxell. It's about 4~5 dB hotter in the highs.
-Chris |
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| DragonMaster |
| quote: | | The capstan shaft is the metal rod that turns the tape. The pinch roller rides against it with a reasonably high force. That's why the bearing gets worn quickly. Make sure it's lubricated in the bearing. |
Oh, this one.
What do I use? Sharpening/sewing machine oil?
Also, is it normal for these machines to fall apart? I think I've got a lemon. It went to repair lots of times and still has problems. (Listed in a previous post)
I think the white screw I was talking about is one of the bias adjustments. |
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| anatech |
Hi DragonMaster,
Can you please link to the old thread for me?
These were not unreliable machines 15 yrs ago (or there abouts). I did see many that were not serviced correctly, and therefore had a long history.
Unfortunately, the consumer is hard pressed to tell whether the machine or tech is at fault. I've even had situations where the manufacturer and or the distributor has misled the service facility. The end losers are both the service shop and the customer.
I have more often seen long service histories as a problem with the service the machine has had. Add fake semi's to the mix and ..... Normally the tech and service center want to do their best for the customer. This is not always possible.
-Chris |
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| anatech |
Okay, now to lubricate the capstan bearing. The transport needs to be removed. Take pictures and work slowly. Then the mechanism is disassembled only as far as it needs to be. I think there is end play adjustment on those as well.
Remove the belt and place in a safe place. Check how much play there is in each direction at this point. Remove the capstan / flywheel assy. Clean with Methyl Hydrate, do the same with the other flywheel. Put a very thin film of light oil, no additives on both shafts and reassemble.
Clean the capstan shaft with Methyl before you do anything else. Make sure the pinch roller is clean.
That's it. It's also why a good shop charges a bit of money for this job. I was trained at Marantz for this and it is the proper procedure.
-Chris |
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| DragonMaster |
| quote: | | Can you please link to the old thread for me? |
I'll just re-write them as I fixed some problems and got some more at the same time.
1. Counter's not turning. Fix: will have to change the belts.
2. It won't stop when the tape has finished playing just clicks.(It stops on FFwd tho)
3. The PCBs on the record level pots are broken. Fix: find pots with the same PCBs and disassemble them. (I have 1 10k with the same PCB but I need 2 20Ks)
4. junk is falling out each times I open it.
Once, it was a little plastic bit : Now, the record button lock(looking for the tab) is loose.
Then, a white plastic screw. What is it?
Then, the tab coming out of spring no.826N (4383115010) fell out.
Now, it's a little metal ball.
| quote: | | Check how much play there is in each direction at this point. |
None. That's the only thing that is fine.
I kind of have an impression I'll have to buy this one: http://cgi.ebay.ca/SUPERSCOPE-by-MA...1QQcmdZViewItem
to repair what's broken. |
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| anatech |
This is not good. The ball bearing goes under the plate holding the heads etc... Critical part. That transport is falling apart! The white screw is an end play adjustment for one of the flywheels (I hope). I'm going from memory here.
It looks like the unit was used roughly. Also, over time the nylon can get brittle I guess. You need to take great care reassembling things to get levers into slots as it goes together. Watch for nylon pins and their alignment.
The bid item looks rough. If you can get it cheap enough for parts it would be good. If you do get it, compare the location of parts in the mechanism to yours and make notes. Who knows, you may get both working.
Don't lose that ball bearing!!!
-Chris |
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| DragonMaster |
| quote: | | It looks like the unit was used roughly. |
Strangely, the transport started losing pieces 2 years ago, even if it wasn't being used for over 10 years. Well, we used it, but only about twice a year to see if it still works.
| quote: | | The white screw is an end play adjustment for one of the flywheels (I hope) |
I think I lost it. :bawling:
| quote: |
Don't lose that ball bearing!!! |
I've kept the ball! What can I do with it?
| quote: | | Who knows, you may get both working. |
They both can play! I think I could get one working great but the other would be in pretty bad condition. All the parts are breaking for unknown reasons...
Oh, finally, the capstan bearing is a bit loose up and down, but it's really hard to know it.
Oh, btw, tape version of "Best of The Doors" sounds better on the CD-330 than CD version on my CDP.
When opening it, I have the impression it's a "Realistic" brand cassette tape : The covers have all sorts of wire soldered between them and the PCB. I know why: Under it, it's marked "Designed in the USA". |
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| anatech |
Hi DragonMaster,
The reason the capstan shaft moves a lot up and down is that the white screw is not in position. It's made of nylon and normally has some locking compound on the threads to keep it put. Nail polish works fine.
The ball bearing. Hmmm, I think there are a couple in there. There are three or four under the head sliding plate. There may be one or more under some sliding levers on the back. The diameter of the ball bearing is important. Put it and any other parts you have in a plastic bag. Don't lose anything.
As for wires, sometimes that is the best way. It's better than running the signals all over the place on a PCB like they do now (cause it's cheaper).
I remembered, I sold my CD-330 and got a PMD-360. Same thing, newer under the Marantz name. They added a "crash bar" for the front switches. They don't get knocked off anymore. Hunt for one of these on ebay. I think they fixed some small issues with the CD-330. These are basically home decks in a tough lexan case. They added the counter rotating flywheel so you can move it without the speed changing a lot.
-Chris |
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| DragonMaster |
| quote: |
The reason the capstan shaft moves a lot up and down is that the white screw is not in position. It's made of nylon and normally has some locking compound on the threads to keep it put. Nail polish works fine. |
Oh, I see. I guess I should really buy that CD-330 off ebay.
| quote: |
The ball bearing. Hmmm, I think there are a couple in there. |
Arrgh! All I can tell is that the ball came from under the heads.
| quote: |
As for wires, sometimes that is the best way. It's better than running the signals all over the place on a PCB like they do now (cause it's cheaper). |
It's much more cleaner and easier to repair. If they at least would have put some sockets!
| quote: | | Hunt for one of these on ebay. I think they fixed some small issues with the CD-330. |
Hope so! The only auction I can find is someone claiming he sells 6 PDM-360. The only thing is that in the 7 tape drives on the picture, 3 are different from the others.
They cost 200$, while the CD-330 is starting @ 12$ and doesn't seem really popular.
It's sad to know that the transport is falling apart, the case is in practically mint condition(It's almost always stored in the original box), it has only been used a few times and it sounds pretty good. |
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| anatech |
Hi DragonMaster,
I'd say that $200.00 is a bit rich for these, even new in box. Wait him out. Keep your eye's peeled for those.
I liked the PMD360 better than the CD-330. Almost the same machine. The cosmetics are better to my eye. Bear in mind they had mono machines for court reporters, and I think maybe a two head stereo. The 360 is three head stereo just like your 330.
There is a possibility that they changed the nylon material in the 360. We did have an issue where the record lever would break. The factory response was to bend the existing spring to operate the record switch. I did a few, a perfectly valid repair. I don't think I have the mod sheet any more. If someone has it, could they scan and post it please?
Having wires to resolder and move around wasn't a hardship back then. Everything was built like that on average so we were used to it. The wires made for smaller PCB's. The big all-in-one PCB's today break easily. A cracked PCB is harder to repair than a broken wire. Sockets would have been nice (spoiled now), you can put them in if you want. Maybe they did that on the PMD-360. Can't remember.
-Chris |
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| DragonMaster |
| quote: | | I'd say that $200.00 is a bit rich for these, even new in box. Wait him out. Keep your eye's peeled for those. |
The last sentence of my last post was about the CD-330 : | quote: |
It's sad to know that the transport is falling apart, the case is in practically mint condition(It's almost always stored in the original box), it has only been used a few times and it sounds pretty good. |
| quote: | | Everything was built like that on average so we were used to it. |
Not me. My soldering iron is placed on a really small messy shelf, and there's no place for the Superscope on it. It's always a pain to bring the CD-330, try to find a place where it can hold, unsolder the back cover ground, return to where I was to unscrew the top cover, return to unsolder the speaker...
In fact, there are a couple of sockets, but not everywhere. That's the problem. |
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| anatech |
I feel for you.
Again, see if you can score a PDM-360 some time. The CD-330 may get yours going. I suspect yours in in better shape if you can get it together again.
-Chris |
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| DragonMaster |
I'll try to look for a cheap PMD-360 if I see that, once I have a CD-330, that I really use it.
Just like this, can it be considered a good tape player? I mostly want to convert some tapes to CD. (I've already done it, but with a cheapo Toshiba deck and a motherboard audio codec)
I also have to choose which sound card I'll use :
-Ensoniq AudioPCI ES1370
-Genius SoundMaker XG PCI128 (Yamaha YMF724)
-SBLive
-SB Audigy 2 ZS
-Build something based on a PCM2906. |
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| anatech |
Hi DragonMaster,
These machines were better than many home units. The tapes should be played on the machine used to record them for the best quality. Things like azimuth and head height (track position on the tape) come into play. Speed is a consideration as well. Also, tape speed as you run through the tape as the load changes on the motor. At least the same model. CD-330 and PMD-360 can be considered the same model.
The sound card is used for recording, therefore the lower end cards will not work as well as something like a SoundBlaster X-Fi Elite Pro. Or some other "pro" card. There is discussion on this board if you do a search on "sound card" or "sound balaster" plus any other card you may think of.
I do have the SB Live! 24 bit. I'm using RMAA with it and can tell you there are issues with it. However, it may be good enough for you. I paid about $35.00 for an OEM version. f you want to try one out it's not that much money. It sounds okay on playback.
-Chris |
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| DragonMaster |
| quote: | | These machines were better than many home units. |
Happy to know that!
| quote: | | The tapes should be played on the machine used to record them for the best quality. Things like azimuth and head height (track position on the tape) come into play. |
Mostly commercial tapes. About every other tapes that I would "digitize" are made with the CD-330 ;)
For the sound cards, I guess the Audigy2 is better than the SBLive 24bit. M-Audio is supposed to be good, but I'm not gonna buy an other card. (The ones I listed are the ones I have)
I should try a direct comparison between them. |
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| anatech |
Hi DragonMaster,
| quote: | | For the sound cards, I guess the Audigy2 is better than the SBLive 24bit. M-Audio is supposed to be good, but I'm not gonna buy an other card. (The ones I listed are the ones I have) |
Let me know. I was under the impression that for recording, the Live and Audigy 2 were the same.
-Chris |
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| DragonMaster |
I have the Live Value 16-bit anyways.
If the Live 24bit is able to record 24/96, maybe it's the same, but the specs of the Audigy 2 are certainly better than those of the Live what else, how would Creative sell newer cards?
M-Audio ones are not as much featured(No hardware playback, EAX, digital inputs, stereo digital out) but they're supposed to sound better. They use Crystal/Cirrus DACs and ADCs I think.
Maybe I'm wrong, but I think I read somewhere the Ensoniq AudioPCI ES1370 and early SoundBlaster PCI128(Same thing) don't have as good specs but sound good.
Oh, and just before posting, there's one Audigy 2 sound card I know that uses Crystal DACs and maybe ADCs, the 2 ZS Platinum Pro. I don't have this one tho. |
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| anatech |
Hi DragonMaster,
For recording, the thing I think makes a big difference is an external unit tied to the card. Lower noise this way. There also seems to be an issue with upsampling everything to 24 / 48 Khz. That's what the SB cards we have do.
If you do a search you'll find out a lot on this.
-Chris |
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| DragonMaster |
Yes, it either runs on 48kHz or 96kHz mode. With the Audigy 2 ZS I can choose which mode to use. (They call it the digital output mode selection but I think it changes the setting for all the card)
If I want to convert the tapes to CD, I think I should use the PCI128 or the Yamaha and if it's just to convert them to MP3 VBR or OGG, then a 48 or 96k record should do the job.
even more issues, the standard Live works at 18-bit I read somewhere. The inputs are super-noisy. A definitive no for the Live.
| quote: | | For recording, the thing I think makes a big difference is an external unit tied to the card. Lower noise this way. |
The external audigy is better for this reason, also because it uses I2S codecs instead of AC97 ones and it uses better ICs.
I guess the Audigy can be good. Maybe I should build a good external SPDIF ADC with it?
Or, if I return to the TI/BB PCM2906(Play + Rec), someone prefers PCM2706(Play only) to his TDA1543 DAC, so I guess these sound good. Also, they use a supposedly jitter free USB interface. It's stuck to 16-bit 48k maximum only. But, it doesn't resample the data! |
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| anatech |
Hi DragonMaster,
The 2 head Nak can sound good. It will need service first, so call the Nakamichi service center and find out how much $$ to return to spec. The 3 head units are incredible, I have a rebuilt BX-300. The problem is the eq, Naks are a little different than all other machines. A tape recorded on another machine should sound bright on a Nak. But the Nak is smoother and has less background noise.
Might be a good choice.
-Chris |
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| DragonMaster |
There's a BX-2 for 90$ with 5 hours remaining that is pre-serviced.
http://cgi.ebay.ca/NAKAMICHI-BX-2-C...1QQcmdZViewItem
Also a BX-300 for 120$ with 18hours remaining but not serviced. It has new belts tho.
http://cgi.ebay.ca/Nakamichi-BX-300...bayphotohosting
The seller name for the BX-300 seems doubtful tho.
Oh, and I'll look for these later. I should start spending out a couple of hundreds very soon from my bank account for the tons of DIY projects I'm gonna build that I still haven't ordered the parts for.
(5 TDA1541A DACs, with EIAJ, SPDIF, I2S and USB inputs, rebuild of my 2 HF-12, a couple of "kwak clocks", a 10 channel "sound card", CD-330 rebuild, mains filter, remote-controlled source selector)
And, _THE_ problem, I'm still under 18 and don't have a work. :( (No credit card and the money is coming in only at my birthday, christmas, etc.) At least, I don't often spend money ; around 100$ a year and this year was a "big" 200$ ;) |
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| anatech |
Since this is for playback, pick up a BX-2 (oldest series in the BX line). I hope the seller isn't pulling your leg. Have a good look at the head when you get it. Watch the tape motion across the head carefully.
-Chris |
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| DragonMaster |
Won the BX-2 :D :D :D
Now, I have to (ask an 18+ to) pay and see if it's a fake auction and that I've just lost 120$ or not.
As for the head, could you be more specific? I just want to remember you that I'm new to "how tape drives work". I didn't even know what a demagnetizer was before a week ago. |
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| anatech |
The 2 head BX series use a normally soft head material. The tape will, over time, wear a path in the head. Once this path is established, you can not adjust the azimuth (HINT!). If you do, the tape will not have the head contact it needs and will "fight" the new path. The harder, or "glass = ferrite" heads wear in a different way and sound worse.
Look at how deep the path is. This gives you an idea what the time on the machine is. The interesting thing is this. There was a change in the drive system. The original system used an idler wheel to turn the reel tables. Some people just replace the tire (bad, the arm wears too). The new system uses a gear. Both the idler and reel tables are changed. The T/U tension is changed from 50 gr/cm to 35 gr/cm. So look at the edge of the reel table to see if it is toothed or not.
Use Pay Pal, you will be protected against a fake auction.
-Chris |
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| DragonMaster |
I just opened the package and found the unit lost in the middle of the foam "S"es. The top cover is scratched but that's about all. Plays great, no background noise in the sound.
I think the head is worn but I'll try to look closer an other time.
| quote: | | So look at the edge of the reel table to see if it is toothed or not. |
?!? All I know is that rewind produced some grinding noise when I first used it. The same grinding noise is heard a fraction of second when I press play when no tape is loaded.
I've got a list of what has been done during repair at the same time:
-Replaced Idler Assembly
-Overhaul Assist Motor
-Adjust Capstan Motor Speed
-Clean, Lube & Align Tape Assembly
-Clean & Demagnetize Heads
-Test
I now just have to wait for the CD-330 which was shipped tuesday. |
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| anatech |
Hi DragonMaster,
The grinding noise is hopefully the gear assembly. It should be a little noisier in fast wind also. Make sure the T/U tension was reduced. You might want to clarify whether the arm upgrade was done. It's important.
If not, the arm may be worn. There is a felt washer in there to provide torque to turn the arm. Worn arms have too much play and the idler runs at an angle to the reel motor and reel tables. Grind.
-Chris |
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| DragonMaster |
| quote: | | Make sure the T/U tension was reduced. You might want to clarify whether the arm upgrade was done. It's important. |
I don't have direct communication to the repair guy so what do I tell to the seller?
Can I look at this myself?
Oh, while being there, is there any Nak resources somewhere?
I found a Yahoo Group but my subscription is pending for 2 weeks. |
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| anatech |
Hi DragonMaster,
You would need to have the seller send you a copy of the repair invoice. They can blank out the prices if they want. If it's not clear on the repair form, you may need to ask what the normal procedure is for the repair listed.
They need a torque cassette to measure the T/U tension. The other way is to have a shop local to you who does Nak warranty, or used to do Nak warranty do a quick check. When I ran my shop I would have done this at no charge. 1/2 hour is the max charge I would expect for this check.
-Chris |
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| DragonMaster |
| quote: | | You would need to have the seller send you a copy of the repair invoice. |
I don't think they have pretty much more info than what I post on this. They said they paid the repair guy 82$ "under the table". So, there's no bill or anything like this.
I asked the seller if it would be possible to have the service guy's e-mail. |
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| anatech |
Hi DragonMaster,
Try option #2 - ask a shop. If the unit has the gear mod but the torque is still 50gr/cm, you are further ahead paying 1/2 Hr to set it to the proper 35gr/cm. If it's a bad service job, get it fixed straight away or send it back.
-Chris |
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| DragonMaster |
I just got the service center's e-mail address. I don't know if I'll be able to get much details but I'll try.
There's not ANY Nak service center in the province from what I've found.
The only I found was this one:
http://www.eslabs.com/ but it's a bit far away. |
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| anatech |
I thought that Lenbrook took Nak distribution over. Could be wrong. I was with Nakamichi Canada. There must have been a shop in Quebec. I was in Ontario, eventually they opened a couple other shops here.
Try to contact Lenbrook industries, Pickering Ontario. See if they had a shop where you are.
Any real good shop should be able to handle that job. The good ones would have seen Nakamichi even out of warranty.
-Chris |
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| DragonMaster |
I just found Lenbrook's website, there are 5 centers in Ontario, one in USA and one in UK. Not anywhere else.
About the only service company here is Hecotron. They don't repair Nak.
There's a really small private owned Hitachi, Pioneer, Sony service "center" near where I live |
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| anatech |
| Give them a shot. |
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| DragonMaster |
I just looked under the plate to look the idler condition and found a gear. Meaning that the drive is already upgraded.
What was the grinding sound? The rubber brakes stopping the wheels. Now, I just wonder why the grinding appeared while I was rewinding. Maybe torque is still too high? |
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| anatech |
The gear upgrade is great news. It is possible the T/U tesion is too high. You need a torque tape to set this. Just a pot adjustment, but I'd have to go on old memories to tell you. It'd be easier to have it on my lap.
Try your shop close by.
-Chris |
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| DragonMaster |
Now, I have an other problem.
If I go from pause, rewind or ff to play, 1/3 times, it just stops instead. Sometimes, the transport just stops working. It can't do anything until I open the cover and help the head motor to do it's job. It happened 3 times. The machine also tried to eat two tapes. |
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| anatech |
There is a pot that tells the controller what position the mechanism is in. I'll bet it needs cleaning. It is operated by the cam gear.
Just use as little cleaner as you can, this pot moves a lot and needs the lubricants. Clean the slip ring, not the carbon track!!!
-Chris |
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| DragonMaster |
| quote: | | Clean the slip ring, not the carbon track!!! |
Seems pretty risky. I'm 99% sure I'll put some on the carbon track.
If I use rubbing alchool will it do something to the track?
Or would DeOxit be a better choice?
Shouldn't the ring get some Vaseline or sharpening oil instead of cleaning?
There are also 3 switches moved by this same motor.
I just need to find a service manual and I'll be less afraid of playing in it. I should try with eslabs to see if they can provide me one.
The guy @ eslabs told me to go on naks.com. The only problem is that no one seems to answer my question. |
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| anatech |
The three switches need cleaning. DeOxid is an excellent choice, same for pots. Use some on a business card between the contacts held lightly together. Follow with a non-residue cleaner like Electrowash 2000. The paper of the business card will show a brownish mark as the oxides come off. These are crossbar switches and will tear up the cards if you are too rough. Easy does it.
-Chris |
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| DragonMaster |
For now, I still don't have any DeOxit, only some "Contact 2000" contact cleaner that smells like alchool and is just making the contact worse.
Also I will need Electrowash 2000 because I don't have any.
It really seems like the motor is missing power. If I help it to turn, the deck works correctly for a couple of play, stop, ff, rew changes. I'll try with 80% rubbing alchool to see if it changes something.
Wow, transport is really easy to remove. 4 screws and 4 connectors. My Toshiba is even easier, but it's starting to have similar problems to the Nak. I guess it's a lube problems because everything is mechanic and the motor driving heads, spools and capstan is working correctly.
Any source for Electrowash and DeOxit? |
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| anatech |
Try one of the old Active Electronics stores. They have De-Ox-Id by General Cement as well as Electrowash 2000.
You may need a new motor. They can go occasionally. Ask the seller if you can obtain one from his repair guy. Don't bother with the alchohol.
-Chris |
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| DragonMaster |
Lighter fluid removed some black dirt off the contacts.
The gear and shaft were completely grease free so I put some lithhium grease and 2 drips of sharpening/sewing machine oil in the motor.
The motor seems harder to stop by hand and I just tried doing a lot of pause, ff, rew, play, stop in random order and it didn't block like before.
I hope it will stop eating tapes. The tape eating detection is great btw! |
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| anatech |
Hi DragonMaster,
You still will need a motor at some point. Good job you got it working though! Get a motor with everything on it, It's a real pain to put the swing arm on if you aren't use to it. There is a spring in there waiting to jump out.
The motion detection is optical. Reflective tape on the bottom of the T/U table. It does work very well.
-Chris |
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| DragonMaster |
swing arm?
I think it will need a new motor. It's doing the same thing as before. I pressed pause, then play and it stopped. Really, I wonder why it fails.
In fact getting it to work is quite easy if it stops working, I help the motor to turn and it starts working again.
Getting to the switches was somewhat a pain. I had to remove the capstan motor w/the plate and the kind of spring holding a ball on the front to be able to remove the plate with the switches and motor on it.
What's the name of that motor? |
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| anatech |
The swing arm goes on the reel motor. Disregard.
The motor you need is the cam motor. It fails due to wear on the armature and contacts. If you don't change it, the intermittent shorting will blow the transistors that control the motor. When you push it, you rotate the armature to a non-shorted location.
Hey, the standard mechanism 2 is easy as pie to work on. You haven't lived until you rebuild a standard mechanism 1. Dragon, 1000ZXL, 480.
-Chris |
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| DragonMaster |
OK, so I need to try to find a cam motor. I'll ask @ a couple of places for the cheapest.
| quote: |
Hey, the standard mechanism 2 is easy as pie to work on. |
The only hard part was to put masking tape in the hole between the ball and the spring. ;) I remember working on my Toshiba the belts are a lot harder to re-install than this one. (The transport is easy to work on tho)
I think the CD-330 will be quite something to repair. The part holding the spring I talked about somewhere in the previous posts was a pain to reinstall. |
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| anatech |
Make sure the motor is an actual Nakamichi part. That's more important.
The CD-330 isn't fun. I rebuilt many, many years ago. Now I'm not "in the groove" anymore. Especially since TC Electronics killed the brand. They made me so angry I dropped Marantz for warranty. I was sad about that since I went back so far with Marantz. Now, Lenbrook had them and I think Denon Canada has them. Finally, another good distributor!
-Chris |
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| DragonMaster |
I'm going to get it from eslabs or lenbrook since they are about the only authorized dealers. One is near, and the other one has a good reputation. I'm going for the cheapest!
The transport is even hard to remove out of the CD-330. It's pretty discouraging.
I just received a reply on naks.com the guy tell it can be rebuilt. I wonder if it's just by putting 12v in the terminals for a few seconds like some people do to remove the shorts. |
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| anatech |
Hi DragonMaster,
| quote: | | I just received a reply on naks.com the guy tell it can be rebuilt. I wonder if it's just by putting 12v in the terminals for a few seconds like some people do to remove the shorts. |
That guy is badly mis-informed. Sorry, you need a new one. Just simply buy a new motor and be done with it. Otherwise, you will be back into it ... and have to buy an new motor. Possibly also need to repair the motor drive circuit as well.
-Chris |
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| DragonMaster |
Since motors won't teleport themselves, I used a temporary solution to the problem. I actually opened the motor and cleaned the brushes and commutator with rubbing alcohol. There was a black spot on it.
In fact, the "rebuild" the guy told me about is this:
The rebuild involves taking the motor apart, cleaning the commutator, lubricating the bearings and reassembling. I've done this quite a few times, with 90% success rate. It won't succeed if the brushes are too far gone or if the commutator is too pitted. I also check the small cap across the motor and replace if bad.
The transistors are still working after about 10+ shorts. I guess they can handle it for the fraction of second they work. If the motor won't turn, the drive just stops trying after ~1/2 second.
If the problem reappears, I'll buy a new motor.
:scratch1: Hey, what if I hook the shaft to a drill and put a light pressure with 1000 grit sand paper on the commutator?:D :whacko: |
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| DragonMaster |
| I've done the crazy thing and sanded the commutator with the help of a drill and sand paper. The brushes are now making the contact with new shiny cooper. Works great! I did not sand the brushes tho. |
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| anatech |
Hi DragonMaster,
Sanding the commutator is what has bought you some time. It's normally not worth doing. The brushes are the other issue as they wear though where they make contact with the commutator. So you did fix it, short term. Congratulations!
Now, if you want to keep this machine, buy a new motor when you have enough money. Don't rely on this being permanent, it may or may not last.
-Chris |
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| DragonMaster |
A motor is USD $55 and the shipping is USD $20. Not cheap!
I will sand the brushes when I can. There is still a good part of them remaining.
I'm not listening to tapes every days/weeks/months so this (temporary) solution should still last a couple of time. |
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| anatech |
Have them mail it surface, much less than $20 then.
Have fun, with any luck, it will last.
-Chris |
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| DragonMaster |
| Hi, I got a reply from the guy who done the service and the torque was adjusted. |
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| anatech |
Cool. Now just watch in case you have further trouble with the cam motor.
-Chris |
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| DragonMaster |
Cam motor has no more problems. I shouldn't tell this, it will start having some problems.
Drive motor had problems instead. The machine was eating tapes. I've done a rebuild to this one too. I just think I sanded a bit too much. a little part of the plating is removed where the brushes don't touch. Anyways, it works!
Now, I started to try recording this week. The right channel recording has gain problems, it seems compressed and sometimes gain is just going gradually low, high, low, high...
That was when I tried Dolby C with FM(MPX on). I made a few tests and the problem did not show itself. Instead, in one of the tests(MPX off, dolby off), the gain reduced drastically while recording a mono track. In the next test, it was OK. (See attachement)
It seems to be some transistor problem like my hk670 amp.(I still haven't solved this) |
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| anatech |
Hi DragonMaster,
I hate to ask, but ... did you check the tape path and capstan bearing?
A machine with motors this worn has had heavy use. I'll bet the tape is being drawn in towards the mechanism due to a worn capstan bearing.
I am really sorry to say this, but I am thinking your machine needs an overhaul.
-Chris |
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| DragonMaster |
It has a number on the back. It seems to come from a school or something like this. Yes, the capstan is loose, but I don't have any problems since I refurb. the motor.
I'll have to get that Hitachi scope I want to buy since a couple of time.
Damn the parts cost a lot. There would be 2x 50$USD motors to change, a bearing, maybe the head, some parts on the main PCB. I practically want to buy an other one with "low use". |
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| anatech |
But that's what I was afraid of.
-Chris |
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| DragonMaster |
It's great for playback tho.
There were some discussions about orange caps on naktalk. Here are the problems described:
| quote: | | The orange caps finally appear to be acting up (low gain L&R on playback) though I can't complain for the twenty-three years use of that Nak without a single problem! |
I have a similar problem which is intermittent low gain on record. I guess I should replace them? |
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| anatech |
Hi DragonMaster,
You can try, although I haven't run across any great problem with these. Some film caps in the master oscillator may short, but that happens with all brands from time to time.
I don't know if running this machine has any value at all. The tape path is not correct, tape is running against the guide (inside). Not good. Not correct. Oh well.
-Chris |
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| DragonMaster |
Is there a way to change the capstan bearing? (If it turns to be the only problem remaining) It doesn't seem to move a lot. What could be the symptoms of this? If the capstan was the cause of the tape eating, it would have to turn so fast that the drive motor can't handle it.
The recording problem disappeared like magic. I'm sure it will reappear if I tell there's no problem.
Apart that there are some recording problems that show up from time to time, there are absolutely no problems with playback. The speed remains the same. |
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| anatech |
The tape eating issue has to do with the reel motor and / or the reel table and swing gear.
The capstan bearing is replaceable. Nice big hunk of metal in these, not those skinny little things seen in almost averything else.
Experienced hands need to look at your machine. Much can be told in a short time once the mech. is out. There is no way to describe what to do without showing you. It's the small things that will get you.
Did you ever report back to the seller? But then again, he knows.
-Chris |
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| DragonMaster |
The drive motor was just stopping and it seems it's a common problem with Sankyo transport from the naktalk guys.
The seller is aware of the cam motor problem only. I have the repair guy's email also.
It's not easy to find a repair guy somewhere as the only one that is a real one (On the spot repair) is an Hitachi guy. I think there's an other one just a bit more far away.
In fact, I get all the Nak problems at the same time I think. Failing motors, etc. I should ask the link to the "common Nak failures"
What can they look at? |
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| anatech |
Hi DragonMaster,
I can tell you from experience, those problems you are having were known by the repair guy. Either than or he stuck his head in the sand and does not have test tapes or experience.
If your local repair guy is good on mech's at all, he has seen Nakamichi units before. Look for a guy who has worked on them. An old Nak repair depot is a very good bet and there has to be one in the area. At least they will do a proper job and be able to tell you what you are in for in advance. Be advised that sometime the lowest posted labour rate is the most expensive repair. Make sure exact Nak parts are used.
-Chris |
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| DragonMaster |
Hi, about the Nak, I don't seem to have problem with it.
And the CD-330, I forgot to give news about it but I just put the nylon screw from the other CD-330, tightened the part that was holding the ball and put an other ball from the other CD-330 and it works pretty well. I also put a couple of tie wraps, missing screws and got the rec level pot from the other unit. So far I don't seem to have much problems, I will just need to get some locktite and put some at a lot of places to prevent everything from falling. |
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| anatech |
Hi DragonMaster,
Great news! Good.
I believe the clearance on the CD-330 is 0.5mm for the thrust bearing. Just a tiny bit of play, so don't tighten it right up.
-Chris |
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| DragonMaster |
I guess that tightening it just enough and turning back about ¼ or ½ turn should work.
Now it needs at least azimuth, VU meters and speed adjustments.
I still have to find a repair center that repairs equipment on the spot. The nearest center sends the decks to Montreal for evaluation and repair is done in Toronto. And it costs 35$ per deck just for the evaluation. |
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| anatech |
I guess everyone is bailing on service. With good reason. It's not worth it to try to run a shop anymore.
Who ships to Toronto for service?? The major centers were Toronto, Montreal and Vancouver. There are some excellent shops in between here and there as well.
-Chris |
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| DragonMaster |
Who ships to Toronto? Hecotron. Their service center is supposed to be in Montreal but when I sent my VCR to them they brought it to Toshiba in Toronto. That's not what I call a service center. I've got it back 6 months after in ± good condition.
I found this place:
http://brosseau.qc.ca/
they are at maybe 20 minutes from me and they service Naks. I still have to know if they service Superscope too. |
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| anatech |
Well, if brosseau services Nak, then take the Superscope along and explain what you need done. The standard Teac test tapes are all they need.
-Chris |
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