| Yves Smolders |
Not DIY but informational, the Philips DFR9000 receiver is rumoured to use UcD amplification
Should be state of the art, HDMI connectios, video scaler by faroudja... quite the beast :-)
Yves |
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| Tweeker |
| Fudge anything that contains HDCP. |
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| IVX |
| quote: | Originally posted by Yves Smolders
Not DIY but informational, the Philips DFR9000 receiver is rumoured to use UcD amplification
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Chip implementation? |
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| Yves Smolders |
No idea, I've lost the link to my source, if I can find it again I'll check it.
It's a 400 british pound receiver, so I think it's not in the realm of cheap chip implementation |
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| japjag |
http://www.avreview.co.uk/news/article.asp?UAN=230
Also in the ‘Home Entertainment’ range is the DFR9000 multichannel digital receiver, which has been designed to partner the DVP9000S. Like the DVP9000S, the DFR9000 can be linked via HDMI, allowing digital transfer of video and audio. It features Dolby Digital EX and DTS ES decoders, and has an integrated DAB digital radio tuner.
DVP9000S multi-channel digital receiver
The receiver is also equipped with Faroudja DCDi processing, upscales video to 1080i resolution and also features CD upsampling. Both the DVP9000S and DFR9000 are due for release next month, priced at £400 each
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| IVX |
| There is no UcD mention yet.. |
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| DIAR |
I can translate the page if really needed. Here are the interesting parts (?).
Unique top class UCD (Universal Class D) digital amplifiers:
Top class UCD digital amplifier is fully digital Class D amplifier which is designed to minimize impedance and give the best audio measurement results. The performance of UCD digital amplifier will satisfy the most demanding enthusiast.
Metal base and circuits: Excellent sound reproduction
The player has a reinforced base which is braced and shielded to decrease electromagnetic interference and vibration. The audio circuits are based on careful listening tests and top class components are chosen after carefull audio measurements. Other components are also carefully chosen to ensure unique listening experience.
CD oversampling improves cd sound quality:
CD oversampling is a modern sound processing technique which improves the sound quality of normal cd's by increasing time resolution and sampling rate.
My english is far from perfect but I suppose that my translation is somewhat easier to understand than finnish :confused: |
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| IVX |
| hmm..fully digital, again ;-) |
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| Yves Smolders |
I wonder if this thing feeds SACD DSD stream directly to the amps...
Brunoooo? :-) Could you comment on the quality of this thing please?
It has amazing stuff going on at its price tag... Faroudja scaling of sources is a wow... SACD decoding is wow...
Too bad it's only 6.1, 7.1 would be really neat :-) |
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| classd4sure |
So what do these junkers have to do with DIY anyway? :)
"Top class UCD digital amplifier is fully digital Class D amplifier "
I'm willing to bet Bruno did not write that statement. As Bruno may tell you himself UCD is analog, there's nothing digital about it, I'd even bet he wouldn't even be pleased with that. Right, Ivan?
Also, UCD was never designed to give best measurement results, and it doesn't, it was designed to give decent/respectable measurement results, and best sonic results.
That's just a bunch of marketing blabber.
I think by saying that it's "digital" and "fully digital" they're trying to tap into the bigger market of ignorance. |
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| IVX |
There is a Russian proverb: "You can call me a saucepan even, just don't push me into the furnace".
Other point is most interesting -Philips have a start for UcD amp using(not only license) and i see no reason for stop. Today we can find in the any tv's the Philips chips, then tomorrow would be found the UcD too. The next question is -Why they waited so long?;) |
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| Bruno Putzeys |
| The DFR9000 uses three discrete dual-channel UcD modules. |
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| Yves Smolders |
| Ha. So this thing should be nice bang for the buck... |
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| Bruno Putzeys |
| quote: | Originally posted by Yves Smolders
Ha. So this thing should be nice bang for the buck... |
I only know about the amplifier but a colleague of mine told me the rest of the box is good too. |
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| SSassen |
Interesting...
| quote: | | three discrete dual-channel UcD modules |
I'll pop the question as I'm sure otherwise someone else will, what discrete dual-channel UcD modules would that be?
The only IC that can be used with the UcD concept is the TDA8939, all other class-D ICs Philips manufacturers are the PWM modulator type of class-D amplifiers.
TDA8939, class-D 7.5A power comparator
http://www.semiconductors.philips.c...A8939TH_N1.html
Would I be correct to assume the DFR9000 uses the TDA8939, or is there so other mystery Philips part not listed on their website?
Best regards,
Sander Sassen
http://www.hardwareanalysis.com |
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| Bruno Putzeys |
| The specs are not just those of the amplifier. They include the rest of the on-board signal processing circuitry as well. I find most consumer goods designers have serious problems making small signal electronics that produces less distortion and noise than the power amplifier. One would normally expect the power amplifier to dominate the THD figure but the current breed of consumer boxes have made me readjust to a different reality :( |
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| Bruno Putzeys |
| quote: | Originally posted by SSassen
I'll pop the question as I'm sure otherwise someone else will, what discrete dual-channel UcD modules would that be?
The only IC that can be used with the UcD concept is the TDA8939, all other class-D ICs Philips manufacturers are the PWM modulator type of class-D amplifiers.
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I wouldn't have said discrete if it contained the TDA8939. Philips makes their own discrete UcD modules (they're entitled to that). It's similar in circuitry to the UcD180, but it has two channels. |
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| Bruno Putzeys |
| quote: | Originally posted by Yves Smolders
I wonder if this thing feeds SACD DSD stream directly to the amps...
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Of course not. The DSD audio is first converted into analogue. |
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| Yves Smolders |
What I meant was, DSD->Analogue->Amps.
Too many receivers out there convert DSD to PCM first, then do D/A. |
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| IVX |
| i think that's because any processing on the DSD is too hard (if it's possible in the budget receivers generally) then on the PCM, e.g. for typical DSP features such as Hall, EQ, Volume control even. |
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| Bruno Putzeys |
| quote: | Originally posted by IVX
i think that's because any processing on the DSD is too hard (if it's possible in the budget receivers generally) then on the PCM, e.g. for typical DSP features such as Hall, EQ, Volume control even. |
Even in more expensive receivers you'll find that they may send the DSD signal straight to the DAC only when there is no processing, and switch to PCM when some processing needs to be done. |
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| IVX |
| Whether PCM is also involved in the PPDSD processing? |
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| Bruno Putzeys |
| quote: | Originally posted by IVX
Whether PCM is also involved in the PPDSD processing? |
No. The volume control is done using the power supply voltage. The bits on the power stages correspond directly to the bits from the DSD input signal.
(bit OT, this) |
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| IVX |
| quote: | Originally posted by Bruno Putzeys
(bit OT, this) |
sorry, what you mean -OT?? |
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| Bruno Putzeys |
| quote: | Originally posted by IVX
sorry, what you mean -OT?? |
Off-Topic... If you want to discuss PPDSD in detail it might be better to start a new thread. |
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| capslock |
| quote: | Originally posted by Bruno Putzeys
The specs are not just those of the amplifier. They include the rest of the on-board signal processing circuitry as well. I find most consumer goods designers have serious problems making small signal electronics that produces less distortion and noise than the power amplifier. One would normally expect the power amplifier to dominate the THD figure but the current breed of consumer boxes have made me readjust to a different reality :( |
Not only current! Ever taken apart and analysed a CD-931? I nearly had a fit analysing the PDB. There is an old post from me in the digital section. |
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| capslock |
| quote: | Originally posted by SSassen
Interesting...
The only IC that can be used with the UcD concept is the TDA8939, all other class-D ICs Philips manufacturers are the PWM modulator type of class-D amplifiers.
TDA8939, class-D 7.5A power comparator
http://www.semiconductors.philips.c...A8939TH_N1.html
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I am not familiar with the details of UcD, but I assumed it has an analog feedback loop. The The TDA8939 is open loop! |
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| Bruno Putzeys |
| quote: | Originally posted by capslock
I am not familiar with the details of UcD, but I assumed it has an analog feedback loop. The The TDA8939 is open loop! |
The TDA8938 and the TDA8939 were designed alongside eachother. Both are functionally two-channel comparator+power stages. The TDA8938 has bipolar inputs with very low noise but is unable to sense signals near the negative supply. The TDA8939 has CMOS inputs which are far noisier but it will sense near the negative supply. The reason for this is that the TDA8939 is intended for open-loop use, where the comparator is only used with one input biased half-way the logic signal swing, so that it can interface with any thinkable logic level. The TDA8938 on the other hand was targeted explicitly at UcD control. The term UcD only pertains to a particular way of building a self-oscillating control loop.
Either chip is agnostic as far as the control system is concerned. The TDA8939 and TDA8938 "aren't UcD" and "aren't open-loop" either. Just depends on what you do with them. |
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| sx881663 |
Bruno,
I don't understand how this could be a UCD implementation and use the power supply voltage for volume control. Seems like all you would change would be max power out and clipping level.
Roger |
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| Bruno Putzeys |
| quote: | Originally posted by sx881663
Bruno,
I don't understand how this could be a UCD implementation and use the power supply voltage for volume control. Seems like all you would change would be max power out and clipping level.
Roger |
The TDA8939 is not a digital-PWM amplifier. It does not have I2S inputs or noise shapers on board.
The TDA8939 is not a UcD. It does not have a control loop on board.
You are referring to the application schematic in the data sheet. This schematic shows the chip used in a digital-PWM amplifier. All parts together form a digital-PWM amplifier, which can be volume-controlled using the power supply. The application schematic does not show a UcD.
A UcD built around a TDA8939 uses the same chip, inductors and filter capacitors. The rest is different. This schematic is not in the data sheet. |
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| AK47 |
Bruno,
With all due respect, there seesm to be a lack of universal definition for digital amp as some people considers UCD as analog Class D. Mind explaining more to the crowd?
Also, out of curiosity, saw a CS42418 chip on DFR. Judging its 2-ch ADC and the lack of a "Direct" mode on DFR, would one be better off feeding 2-ch stuff to SL/SR or C/SUB inputs (config as multi-ch input) and use the corresponding terminals to drive his/her speakers to bypass the unnecessary ADA conversion?
:)
AK |
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| Bruno Putzeys |
| quote: | Originally posted by AK47
(...)there seesm to be a lack of universal definition for digital amp as some people considers UCD as analog Class D. Mind explaining more to the crowd?
Also, out of curiosity, saw a CS42418 chip on DFR. Judging its 2-ch ADC and the lack of a "Direct" mode on DFR, would one be better off feeding 2-ch stuff to SL/SR or C/SUB inputs (config as multi-ch input) and use the corresponding terminals to drive his/her speakers to bypass the unnecessary ADA conversion?
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Technically, there is no such thing as a "digital amp". Current, voltage and time are analogue quantities, only numbers are digital. It's clear that all amplifiers, class D or otherwise have to get down to the nitty gritty of volts and amps at some stage in their operation.
The phrase "digital amplifier" having been coined now, I would give some leeway to its usage to denote something that derives a switch control signal from a digital signal, and that uses this control signal to drive power switches without further processing, i.e. an "open loop digitally controlled class D amplifier". All the rest is plainly analogue.
It appears difficult to settle the terminology thing, for what I see as two reasons.
1) Some may not fully understand the abstract notion of "digital", and think square waves are digital (a square wave is analogue, although it may be used to encode data - conversely, the waveform from a modem is not a square wave but nevertheless encodes data).
2) Some may think it sexier to call their amplifier design "digital", fearing the bland "class D" label or worse, "analogue" would detract from the perceived quality of their work.
Both of these reasons are subjective. This accounts for the invariably heated tone of any debate concerning d-terminology.
Have a look at
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/show...&threadid=56709
| quote: | Originally posted by AK47
Also, out of curiosity, saw a CS42418 chip on DFR. Judging its 2-ch ADC and the lack of a "Direct" mode on DFR, would one be better off feeding 2-ch stuff to SL/SR or C/SUB inputs (config as multi-ch input) and use the corresponding terminals to drive his/her speakers to bypass the unnecessary ADA conversion?
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Good question. I don't have the schematics of the dfr9000 so your guess is as good as mine. |
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| IVX |
| :) Class D calling-more noble, but the "DIGITAL" is more profitable. So choice is.. |
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| marconist |
| quote: | Originally posted by Bruno Putzeys
Good question. I don't have the schematics of the dfr9000 so your guess is as good as mine. |
You can buy the servicemanual at:
http://www.doknet.nl/
Cost: € 20 on CDR in PDF-format. |
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| richardpe |
| Hello i'am new in this great Forum.... Excuse me Mr Bruno Putzeys for my little experience(newbie) on the hf and the Class D but the TACT/texas instrument Equibit System is not a real digital amplifier??? My M2150 TACT haven't a DA converter and he have a spidf cinch in. No dac in the schematic. thank you for your response. I have two hypex 160 in my subwoofers very great amplifiers !!!! |
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| Bruno Putzeys |
| The equibit amps are digitally controlled open loop class D amplifiers. This is the only kind of amplifier that I would call "digital" (albeit grudgingly :D ). Power DAC is IMHO a better word. |
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| hreith |
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| TNT |
Hi all !
Is there any reason why this amp could not run a pair of Gallo A'Diva succesfully - my dealer says he didn't like that combo!
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| IVX |
| Hmm.. i see ordinary little middlee+twitter system here, i'm wrong? What's problem with amp? |
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| marconist |
Can only imagine that the impedance is 8 Ohms, which limits the Philips' output to some 65 W ..... Maybe the speakers have a low efficiency.
Why not try it out?
On my 8 Ohm T+A's I still experience enough power/sound and the sound is really cristal clear with a solid bass. Violins never sounded better, not to speak of a superb Bösendorffer recording.
Have fun. |
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| TNT |
Thanks for the replyes!
The speaker is rated 8 ohm - 88 db/1m/1w. There is no requiremnt for roring levels so I can't see either why this could not be a good set.
I'll probably know later today.
/J |
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| sx881663 |
"not to speak of a superb Bösendorffer recording."
No, lets speak of it, What is it. I would like a well done recording of this instrument.
Roger |
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| marconist |
:)
Malcolm Frager plays Chopin
Bösendorfer Imperial Concert Grand
Telarc CD80040 (DIDZ-10030)
Have fun! |
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| sx881663 |
Thank you, always looking for something that is worth listening to that can also be used as a reference. I have fond memories of the sound of this instrument.
Roger |
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| valvaholic |
| quote: | Originally posted by marconist
Can only imagine that the impedance is 8 Ohms, which limits the Philips' output to some 65 W ..... Maybe the speakers have a low efficiency.
Why not try it out?
On my 8 Ohm T+A's I still experience enough power/sound and the sound is really cristal clear with a solid bass. Violins never sounded better, not to speak of a superb Bösendorffer recording.
Have fun. |
So can you please tell us more about the sound quality of the DFR? Analytical/neutral/warm? Thin/body? Depth of stage? Timbre/tonality?
Thanks! |
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| marconist |
So can you please tell us more about the sound quality of the DFR? Analytical/neutral/warm? Thin/body? Depth of stage? Timbre/tonality?
Thanks! [/B][/QUOTE]
Well, yes, why not. :) I got the thing a couple of months now!
My previous stereo amp: a NAD 1240 preamp + a DH4020 prof. stereo power amp (100W pc, 0,01 THD, FET, superstable) together with my rather old but "new-wooferized" T+A TMR100 transmission line speakers. (they do some 35 Hz easily!)
The DFR9000 replaced the amp and is now connected to the T+A's.
As I said before: its an 8 Ohm system so the Philips delivers only a max power of some 65 Watts pc. The room is 70m2, with the actual lsitening area some 40 m2.
In general the sound is neutral, although highs are silky and not harsh even when played on high levels. Bass is strict and very well controlled although I might say that the former DH4020 was a tiny little bit better in that ......
The sound certainly has body, I like to play a Bosendorffer piano recording on it as well a orchestral works and not to forget more modern stuff. The DFR9000 is not giving up in any range and reactions of the speaker system are the same as with the DH4020. So for me no degradation in listening pleasure. :angel:
Timbre, tonality and stage are to my opinion mostly set by the speakers you use and the TMR100's do very well there. Indeed there are (to many) amplifiers that influence the sound picture, but that is also the reason why I waited so long to replace the old set. I tried many sets (sometimes bought and sold, sometimes hired) but they all were too specific in sound. My max budget for a new preamp/amp was set at some €2000,-.
I consider the DFR9000 wonderful for the money!
Before I bought the DFR9000, I bought the servicemanual. (€25,- at
http://www.doknet.nl/eng/index.html
Its in PDF with all schematic's. The poweramp is indeed a "real" UcD with feedback behind the coil and the small print is build with components, so no IC's there. The (switching) PS is very complicated and that is probably the cause that the DFR9000 acts so good on pulse basses in modern music. You certainly do not miss big elco's. :D
The analog preamp is build around the TDA7468D which I think is a sota audio IC.
If you open the box it looks very well build and has a fan to cool ps and pwramp! You can only hear it when you put your ear on the receiver. (That probably will change after a couple of years ..... so than I change the fan. :xeye: )
Disadvantages:
- Cabinet too small: no more connections possible unless you use switchboxes and so.
- Silly display which is difficult to read. You have to walk up to it to know you neutralised all tonecontrol.
- When applying stereosignals it tends to go to multichannel on most analog inputs. Of course you only have to switch only once for the source, but I would have liked it user-programmable.
- Limited programmability of the radio part.
- It has no mid preamp output to connect to your TV sound input.
Advantages:
- Nice small cabinet with funny display; everybody likes the looks of it .......
- Very good sound and a AM/FM and DAB radio too! (In Holland DAB still has a good bandwidth)
- Multichannel incl. decoders so you can play your films in HiFi.
- Many (menu) configuration possibilities.
- Faroundja picture improvements (yes, I almost forgot that it is a audio/video device ;)
I use it mainly as a 4-channel device, looking for an acceptable mid-channel speaker. No subwoofer as I do not need/like these things for good music reproduction. It is nice however on some "earthquake" films.
As I still use a conventional Sony LCD projection TV, I do not comment on the Faroundja and HDMI things. Of course I also bought the set in mind that I want a HD screen one of these days! There are plenty of adjustments possible in the video range.
The Germans discussed a lot of that (in German!):
http://www.hifi-forum.de/viewthread-101-213-1.html
Oh yeah, its internal software is upgradable, but in fact only by some dealer. Look at the service-manual to see how that works.
WARNING: Listen to it on a good speakersystem and you probably buy it. :clown: |
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| Yves Smolders |
Great review!
Maybe the service manual would be a good start for a DIY SMPS. We're not going to "get" one from hypex, and in light of the nuforces, iceamps and others of these days, a good matching SMPS for the different UcD's would be nice!
Anyway, nice to see a commercial UcD out there, and it seems to be a great performer also! |
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| valvaholic |
Thanks for your concise impressions Marconist!
I know you don't use a sub, but will it control sub volume independently from its remote?
I'm also wondering if I can run a dedicated 240V/60Hz line to it from my fuse box (here in Canada!)? |
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| marconist |
| quote: | Originally posted by valvaholic
Thanks for your concise impressions Marconist!
I know you don't use a sub, but will it control sub volume independently from its remote?
I'm also wondering if I can run a dedicated 240V/60Hz line to it from my fuse box (here in Canada!)? |
Sub can only be controlled (like all other speakers) through the setup menu + or - 10 dB. Not directly from the remote!
I see no need for a transformer if you can use two phases in your country because the DFR9000 (as most Europe equipment) is not constructed in a phase sensitive way, so you should also not have grounding or interconnecting problems.
A separate pwr feed is handy, because the DFR9000 is quite demanding at full power! It wants energy FAST as there are no big elco's to act as an accumulator.
Because your country uses mostly open air powerlines I recommend some kind of power surge protection (like for a PC) with a very small internal resistance.
Edit: 60 Hz is originally not specced, but to my opinion no problem. There is only a small (50 Hz) transformer in the standby pwr supply, the "real" power is rectified first as usual with a SMPS.
Its more difficult for us Europeans to use American (60 Hz) transformers on 50Hz, because of the higher temperatures you then get. |
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| Bgt |
| The amp. looks very nice but when seeing a box full with digital stuff and a lot of wiring/in-outputs I wonder how "true"it will measure/sound? That was 1 of the reasons I wanted to get rid of my NAD C162/C272 combo........too many caps. and cheap wiring that will wear in not so much time and make the sound become less lively/dynamic. |
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| marconist |
| quote: | Originally posted by Bgt
The amp. looks very nice but when seeing a box full with digital stuff and a lot of wiring/in-outputs I wonder how "true"it will measure/sound? That was 1 of the reasons I wanted to get rid of my NAD C162/C272 combo........too many caps. and cheap wiring that will wear in not so much time and make the sound become less lively/dynamic. |
Better look for yourself in the box and the schematics! ;)
"By nature" there are very little capacitors in a UcD amp. And the wiring is not the problem; its the connectors! (And the dirty fingers of some "upgraders" )
:dead: :dead: :dead: |
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| Bgt |
| with wiring I also mean the connectors. Its the route from 1 pcb to another. Its just all the frequencies, EMI running in the box that worries me. It always influences the sound. |
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| nFORCE |
Hi,
I have this board on hand, only one 74HC14 SMD on board, all are transistor, many pieces, all SMD.
Output is TWO of Mosfet.
Will post the picture at tonight.
nFORCE. |
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| marconist |
| quote: | Originally posted by nFORCE
Hi,
I have this board on hand, only one 74HC14 SMD on board, all are transistor, many pieces, all SMD.
Output is TWO of Mosfet.
Will post the picture at tonight.
nFORCE. |
Nice pics!
As far as I can quickly see in the schematic the gates in the 74HC14 control SMPS and UcD-clock in case of overload. The gates are not in the signal path!
The two small pots on the board control output bias.
May be handy when you want to connect ESL's. The factory not always adjust these very well. The outputs of my DFR9000 are around 20 mV. |
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| kst |
Hi there,
DFR9000 is not the first philips set to use this 2 channel UCD module.
The first set to use UCD are mini Hifi sets 3-4 year ago. With rating 2x100W, 2X150W and 2X200W( 2module BTL connection).
Same PCB for the UCD module with some components change (for the better). |
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| marconist |
| quote: | Originally posted by kst
Hi there,
DFR9000 is not the first philips set to use this 2 channel UCD module.
The first set to use UCD are mini Hifi sets 3-4 year ago. With rating 2x100W, 2X150W and 2X200W( 2module BTL connection).
Same PCB for the UCD module with some components change (for the better). |
The older sets are class D amplifiers, but not UcD ! :D
This makes exactly the difference between between good vs excellent output amplifiers ...... |
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| classd4sure |
| Some powered PC speakers were based on SODA.. what's the difference anyway? :clown: |
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| marconist |
| quote: | Originally posted by classd4sure
Some powered PC speakers were based on SODA.. what's the difference anyway? :clown: |
Sibling Of Deaf American ??? ;) :) :) |
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| witali |
| nFORCE, did you see what MOSFET's there is used? |
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| kst |
| quote: | Originally posted by marconist
The older sets are class D amplifiers, but not UcD ! :D
This makes exactly the difference between between good vs excellent output amplifiers ...... |
The class-D amp you mention is originally used in the Micro set. For High power Mini sets, I am very sure that you will be able to find the same UCD inside :)
.... If I remember correctly, FWM779 : 2x250W and FWM589 : 2X200W both using 2 UCD module with BTL configuration ....
For Hts set, LX8300 and LX8500W both used UCD as well..... |
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| marconist |
| quote: | Originally posted by witali
nFORCE, did you see what MOSFET's there is used? |
STP14NF12FP |
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| kst |
| quote: | Originally posted by classd4sure
Some powered PC speakers were based on SODA.. what's the difference anyway? :clown: |
SODA is self oscillating, UCD is also self oscillating.......
But the feedback path is different for SODA and UCD.
SODA feedback taken before the output LC filter (before the inductor).
UCD feedback taken after the output LC filter (after the inductor). |
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| FransDHT |
Here in Holland the DFR9000 is now available for people who can shop at the Philips-shop for Euro 299!
I am very tempted (but I simply don't need it)
Frans |
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| Steven |
| It's for Philips employees only. |
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| compie |
| quote: | Originally posted by marconist
Before I bought the DFR9000, I bought the servicemanual. (€25,- at
http://www.doknet.nl/eng/index.html
Its in PDF with all schematic's. The poweramp is indeed a "real" UcD with feedback behind the coil and the small print is build with components, so no IC's there. The (switching) PS is very complicated and that is probably the cause that the DFR9000 acts so good on pulse basses in modern music. You certainly do not miss big elco's. :D
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marconist: Could you post the schematic of the DFR9000? |
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| marconist |
| quote: | Originally posted by compie
marconist: Could you post the schematic of the DFR9000? |
Sorry, but no. It is a protected PDF-file. |
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| compie |
The user manual is no longer written by engineers it seems!
I found this in the glossary:
http://www.p4c.philips.com/files/d/..._01_dfu_eng.pdf
Noise Shaped Video
NSV™ is a new video format. It is designed to be easily streamed,
support any audio and video codec, and be usable on nearly any platform. Currently NSV™ utilizes MP3 for audio and VP3 for video.
The person that wrote the user manual just searched on the internet for NSV. I think he/she used this page as reference:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nullsoft_Streaming_Video
Nullsoft Streaming Video is also NSV for short ;) |
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| compie |
| quote: | Originally posted by marconist
Before I bought the DFR9000, I bought the servicemanual. (€25,- at
http://www.doknet.nl/eng/index.html
Its in PDF with all schematic's. The poweramp is indeed a "real" UcD with feedback behind the coil and the small print is build with components, so no IC's there. The (switching) PS is very complicated and that is probably the cause that the DFR9000 acts so good on pulse basses in modern music. You certainly do not miss big elco's. :D
The analog preamp is build around the TDA7468D which I think is a sota audio IC.
If you open the box it looks very well build and has a fan to cool ps and pwramp! You can only hear it when you put your ear on the receiver. (That probably will change after a couple of years ..... so than I change the fan. :xeye: )
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What's the whole deal about IC's or no IC's in a class D amplifier?
What's the difference between these two? |
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| gaspain |
whats the deal on this thing?
This thread was started over a year ago.... :rolleyes:
Can you buy one yet? |
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| marconist |
| quote: | Originally posted by compie
What's the whole deal about IC's or no IC's in a class D amplifier?
What's the difference between these two? |
Not too important for me.
Just search in "class D" to find out why people like it or not. |
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| marconist |
| quote: | Originally posted by gaspain
whats the deal on this thing?
This thread was started over a year ago.... :rolleyes:
Can you buy one yet? |
Not in your country I fear ......
Easily available in Europe, except the UK.
:D |
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| marconist |
Didn't notice it before. You're quite right!
:yes: :yes: |
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| compie |
This receiver has a 'bug' in it:
When you mute the volume and select an unused FM frequency it creates a quite hard creaky (crackling) noise.
This should be possible: mute means nothing should be sent to the speakers. It also makes this irritating hard noise when the volume level is low.
Anyone else got this problem? Then I know it's not a problem of mine only. |
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| marconist |
| quote: | Originally posted by compie
This receiver has a 'bug' in it:
When you mute the volume and select an unused FM frequency it creates a quite hard creaky (crackling) noise.
This should be possible: mute means nothing should be sent to the speakers. It also makes this irritating hard noise when the volume level is low.
Anyone else got this problem? Then I know it's not a problem of mine only. |
Just tried for considerable time (again and again different frequencies) and I am not able to reproduce your problem.
So if it really hinders you: up to the repair shop!
:xeye: |
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| compie |
| quote: | Originally posted by marconist
Just tried for considerable time (again and again different frequencies) and I am not able to reproduce your problem.
So if it really hinders you: up to the repair shop!
:xeye: |
Problem solved!
It wasn't caused by the receiver but by my TV. The TV makes a hard noise if the audio input signal is above a certain level, even if the volume level is very low or muted.
I think something in my TV is broken. No big deal for a 10+ year old TV.
Sollution: I disconnected the Audio L+R cables going to the TV (via SCART). I never need my TV to produce sound, I always use the speakers hooked up to my receiver. |
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| marconist |
In case somebody wants to buy 6 UcD amplifiers at a low low price:
The DFR9000 is on sale in Rotterdam at Euro 400,- .
A bargain. :D |
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| VanZea |
| Could you tell me in wich shop in Rotterdam? |
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| marconist |
The ADC is only used for converting analog inputs to the digital (recording) output.
At 96 kHz! |
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| marconist |
As Philips is now leaving the HiFi scene (moving fully to Microsoft-like home entertainment systems) Meridian steps in the place the B]DFR9000[/B] leaves open and even it includes a CD/DVD-player! Too bad it cannot play SACD's. :cool:
http://www.hypex.nl/docs/G95ds-a4.pdf
Bit more expensive, though. :D |
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| Yves Smolders |
| HDMI out but no in... weird :p |
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| eleson |
| quote: | Originally posted by marconist
As Philips is now leaving the HiFi scene (moving fully to Microsoft-like home entertainment systems) Meridian steps in the place the B]DFR9000 leaves open and even it includes a CD/DVD-player! Too bad it cannot play SACD's. :cool:
http://www.hypex.nl/docs/G95ds-a4.pdf
Bit more expensive, though. :D
[/B] |
Weird, wasn't Meridian (one of) the initiators of SACD? /E |
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| compie |
Can this receiver get HDMI input and sent it out on an analog connection (component video for example)?
(Suppose the HDMI source doesn't use HDCP). |
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| compie |
| quote: | Originally posted by marconist
As Philips is now leaving the HiFi scene (moving fully to Microsoft-like home entertainment systems) Meridian steps in the place the B]DFR9000 leaves open and even it includes a CD/DVD-player! Too bad it cannot play SACD's. :cool:
http://www.hypex.nl/docs/G95ds-a4.pdf
Bit more expensive, though. :D [/B] |
Do you mean the MCP9350i media center? Philips still sells a lot of normal harddisk recorders. |
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| compie |
Can this receiver remember it's surround mode? I always listen to the FM tuner in "Dolby Pro Logic IIx Music" mode, but when I turn off the receiver and turn it on again it automatically switches to Neo6 Cinema.
How can I make "Dolby Pro Logic IIx Music" mode the default mode?
Second question:
Some FM radio stations in the list have wrong names, for example "PLAYING:" instead of "SKYRADIO". When I select the radio station the correct name is displayed but when I select another station in the list the old incorrect name is displayed again.
How can I solve this? Or is this problem caused by the radio stations themselves? eg. The don't fill in the Program Service RDS field correctly, see:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_Data_System
"PS: Program Service. This is simply an eight-character static display that represents the call letters or station identity name. Most RDS capable receivers display this information and, if the station is stored in the receiver's presets, will cache this information with the frequency and other details associated with that preset." |
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| jimi00 |
Hi,
Could someone with the appropriate knowledge tell us if the Left and Right Line-Out RCA's on the back of the DFR9000 are really Left and Right channels or are just a downmix of the multichannel audio?
Thank you. |
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| Breaker |
Hi there,
Anyone still reading this thread?
I would like to modify my DFR 9000 so I can use it a preamp/processor. I think jimi00 has a similar idea, so I'd like to see his question about the line outs answered, although I would assume that it was a downmixed signal coming from the line outs.
Could someone point me in the right direction on how where to find the line level outputs of the pre-amps in the circuits?
Thanks! :) |
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| marconist |
| quote: | Originally posted by Breaker
Hi there,
Anyone still reading this thread?
I would like to modify my DFR 9000 so I can use it a preamp/processor. I think jimi00 has a similar idea, so I'd like to see his question about the line outs answered, although I would assume that it was a downmixed signal coming from the line outs.
Could someone point me in the right direction on how where to find the line level outputs of the pre-amps in the circuits?
Thanks! :) |
Line out is a stereo downmix.
Line levels can of course be obtained internally but requires a steady hand (SMD), some electronics knowledge to make line-followers and the schematic.
http://www.doknet.nl/eng/index.html |
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| jimi00 |
Breaker, I figured by testing that all the pre outs (pre-out and rec-out) are downmixes. As for the discreet 6 or 7 channels out... I'm not 100% sure but I think you can forgrt about it because the anatomy of the dfr is all Integrated Circuits. You would have to be VERY handy with a soldering iron and I believe it would be more time and money efficient to simply buy a used AV Receiver that has discreet pre-outs on ebay.
My .10 € |
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| marconist |
| quote: | Originally posted by jimi00
Breaker, I figured by testing that all the pre outs (pre-out and rec-out) are downmixes. As for the discreet 6 or 7 channels out... I'm not 100% sure but I think you can forgrt about it because the anatomy of the dfr is all Integrated Circuits. You would have to be VERY handy with a soldering iron and I believe it would be more time and money efficient to simply buy a used AV Receiver that has discreet pre-outs on ebay.
My .10 € |
It is not sooooooooo difficult, because you can derive the signal from the inputs to the UcD amplifiers. And they are very well reachable! |
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