| iamwhoiam |
I bought this CD Player in January for £85 as ex-display stock from my local RicherSounds. Quite a good deal I thought. Marantz have an OSE version of this player (Special Edition) for £200 which is basically this CD player kitted out in boutique components.
Well, I finally got around to modifying this little beast with my own collection. Hardest component to source? The service manual! ... but so glad I did, contains the schematics and component layouts and even chip datasheets - very useful.
Before Modifications- this is how the CD player comes stock.
(Click images for larger image)
Large Layout.
Component Side - Rear.
Component Side - Side view.
Component Side - Top Layout.
...As you can see, pretty much littered with generic capacitors.
After Modifications-
First thing I did was replace the smoothing capacitors from the power supply transformers. There are 3 in total; one for +12V, one for -12V required by the final low pass filter stage and one for the +8v/+5V/+3.3V required by the digital sections.
Original components = Generic 3300uF/25V types
Replacements = Panasonic FC 3300uF/35V.
Originally I wanted to fit 2x1800uF/35vs for each capacitor, but really couldn't find the space for them.
Second set of capacitors are bypass capacitors after the +12v/-12v regulators.
Original components = Generic 100uF/16V types
Replacements = ELNA Starget 2200uF/16V
These can't fit vertically without having leads extending very high off the board, so I just mounted them sideways. An 2200uF Starget was also placed before the +5v regulator.
Third set of capacitors replaced were the bypass capacitors for the digital power lines, +vcc, +3.3v etc. The dac also has a separate regulator for it's own +5v supply and these were also bypassed.
Original Components = Generic, between 47uF-100uF/16v
Replacements = Sanyo OSCONS between 100uF-330uF/10v
Fourth Set of capacitors replaced were the coupling capacitors, between the DAC and low pass filter op amps and also after the op amps.
Original Components = Generic, 10uF/16v
Replacements = ELNA Starget 10uF/25v
Will use some audio-grade polypropylene foil types (8uF) once they arrive tomorrow for the opamp output stage. Will keep the stargets in the dac output stage. The polypropylenes cost £5.00 each, so replacing 6 would be way to overkill/expensive. (If anyone has any 10uF N series caps for sale, give us a pm!!)
Fifth Set of capacitors replaced are the bypass caps for the low pass filter stage opamps.
Original Components = Generic 47uF/16V
Replacements = Panasonic FC 100uF/16V
DAC (CS4392) capacitors. I next worked on the capactors surrounding the DAC. There were two capacitors that Marantz use for the CMOUT and Filter stage with wrong values according to the chip's datasheet - in fact, they appear to be the wrong way round, 1uF and 10uF as opposed to 10uF and 1uF respectively. Replaced these with OSCONS, and also the bypass caps for the DAC's two power supply lines were replaced with 100uF OSCONS. A 10uF Tantalum was soldered as close as possible to the chip's +VA line on the underside acting as a bypass cap. The lead length on the cap is about 2mm!
Other capacitors replaced - Power supplies leading the transport were beefed up and replaced with Panasonic FC 330uF/100uF. Power supply lines for the hex invertors were replaced with OSCONS. Power supply supply lines for the DSP were replaced with FCs.
Two 0.47uF polypropylene foil caps (500VAC rating) were connected across the live and neutral lines of the mains supply.
0.022uF Wima MKS4 capacitors were soldered on the underside of the board in parallel with every electrolytic capacitor acting as power supply bypass.
Power supply bridge recitifier diodes were replaced with ultra fast types and paralleled with 100pF Wima FKP polypropylene caps. Original Diodes = 1N4002, replacements = UF4002
Biggest change was replacing the standard NJM2086 opamp with AD8620. The circuit has two NJM2086 dual opamp chips acting as a low pass filter after the DAC stage, so it requires two AD8620s. The supply is +12v/-12v which is just under the AD8620's max voltage of +13v/-13v.
Non electronical mods include lining the entire enclosure in Akasa Pax-Mate acoustic dampening material to reduce mechnical noise and also hopefully to stabilise the transport.
How does it all sound? The player sounds a lot more clear than before, though only subtly. There is more clarity on the high ends - and bass has more punch. Also there's less background "white noise". All these changes are very very very subtle though. Mechanical noise of the actualy transport has been reduced considerably. The sound proofing used here is the stuff designed to sound proof music production computers, so it's pretty good stuff and cheap (£20 for a pack with enough material for 2 cdplayers!).
Note: This is an ongoing mod, so I doubt the mods mentioned here are the final mods that are to occur in this fantastically cheap CDPlayer... So stay tuned :D |
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| jleaman |
| Look's Good i should do this now : O ) |
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| i2k92 |
Nice project report. I'm about to do some mod on my CD5400, but it will be concentrated first to the audio PS section and output stage. Some BGs and Elna Silmics are ready to be deployed....
I have a question : how to remove those glue / wax like substances under the 3 power supply big caps (C911, C913, C915) ? |
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| iamwhoiam |
| quote: | Originally posted by i2k92
I have a question : how to remove those glue / wax like substances under the 3 power supply big caps (C911, C913, C915) ? |
Basically just get a knife and scratch it, and then use some long nose pliers to take off the rest. The stuff is very solid as you might see, but it's not too difficult. Also you can desolder the capacitors with a desolder pump to completely remove the solder, and then pull out the capacitor, taking the glue with it. |
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| iamwhoiam |
Latest update:
Finally my output capacitors arrived..
A Polypropylene foil 8uF "Audio Grade" by LCR to replace the Elna Starget 10uF I originally had in there. Thing's huge and had to mount off board. |
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| Heph |
Iamwhoiam,
I am curently looking into buying a CD5400 with the will to mod it within shortly.
So the service manual would definetly be usefull. Is there any way i could have a copy of it, please :D
Thanks. |
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| aliens exist |
iamwhoiam,
have you got the schematic of the player ?
Why don't you have remove the muting transistors ?
Thanks. |
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| Bernhard |
| quote: | Originally posted by iamwhoiam
Latest update:
Finally my output capacitors arrived..
A Polypropylene foil 8uF "Audio Grade" by LCR to replace the Elna Starget 10uF I originally had in there. Thing's huge and had to mount off board. |
Those big fat caps could pick up noise from the nearby transformer ;) |
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| jomar |
| quote: | Originally posted by iamwhoiam
Latest update:
Finally my output capacitors arrived..
A Polypropylene foil 8uF "Audio Grade" by LCR to replace the Elna Starget 10uF I originally had in there. Thing's huge and had to mount off board. |
I refer to the orig output The 10uf Elna Starget caps ... are these the same as the DC blocking caps ? |
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| Heph |
Thanks Iamwhoiam, it's highly appreciated... :D
A few questions:
Have you disconected the headphone amp? Most tweaker do that on their philips 723 though i don't know what you can expect...
What about changing the AOPs. They are CMS ones so it seems to be a bit tricky but might be interesting. A found some AD825 AOPs CMS size...
I'll probably buy mine pretty soon and start tweaking it so I'll take an active role to this thread. ;) |
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| zanash |
| Don't miss out on replacing the rectfier diodes with something like the 11DQ10's schottky diodes.....penny for penny the best upgrade I've done in the various cdp's I've moded. |
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| Heph |
Just to say, I missed the line about the AOPs, so my question will be what's the difference between a AD 863 and AD 825???
Also about getting rid off the "Mute", I've got a few questions....
What I would do to get rid of it is to take out the transistors Q404, Q405, Q406 and Q407.
But then the DAC's datasheet says it triggers the "Mute" in case of initialisation, reset and so on... Is there any risk by disconnecting it?
I was also wondering what the Q403 circuit was suppose to do as it also triggers the "Mute" (sorry, it's my first project so I've got some stupide questions... )
The real question is: Is it a good idear to take those four transistors out??? :confused:
Thanks. |
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| Ruach |
| Take out those transistors. You can desolder the leads and ease them out. You can always put them back in if you do not like the results :) |
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| Ruach |
| I noticed that there are two transformers within your 5400. What does the smaller tranny do? Just curious |
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| Heph |
| The Small transformer is their to supply the front part during Standby so you can switch the cd on and off from the front panel, it supplies the Relay to switch the main transformer on. |
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| iamwhoiam |
| quote: | | Have you disconected the headphone amp? |
Yup, definitely. Don't want another load in there do we? :D
Tis a simple jumper to pull out.
| quote: | | But then the DAC's datasheet says it triggers the "Mute" in case of initialisation, reset and so on... Is there any risk by disconnecting it? |
No risk of disconnecting the muting caps. But there is sometimes audible noise when the CD player is operating, eg changing between tracks, switched on/off etc. The DAC can turn it's "mute" output high, thus switched on the muting transistors and thus muting the sound.
| quote: | | Those big fat caps could pick up noise from the nearby transformer |
I might shield them in some copper foil if i can get my hands on some. Also need to shield the DAC chip
| quote: | | What about changing the AOPs. They are CMS ones so it seems to be a bit tricky but might be interesting. A found some AD825 AOPs CMS size |
By AOPs do you mean the low pass filter opamps? These are the opamps that follow the DAC audio output stage. They are not IV stages because the cs4392 dac used is a voltage out dac.
| quote: | Originally posted by iamwhoiam
Biggest change was replacing the standard NJM2086 opamp with AD8620. The circuit has two NJM2086 dual opamp chips acting as a low pass filter after the DAC stage, so it requires two AD8620s. The supply is +12v/-12v which is just under the AD8620's max voltage of +13v/-13v. |
...Already replaced these opamps as you can see from my first post :)
| quote: | | I refer to the orig output The 10uf Elna Starget caps ... are these the same as the DC blocking caps ? |
If you mean are they the coupling capacitors for the output stage of the low pass filter, then yes :)
I'd recommend to put BlackGate N-types in C201, 202, 301 and 302. I'd then recommend some high quality poly-foil caps for C210/310... I can't afford blackgates :)
| quote: | | Don't miss out on replacing the rectfier diodes with something like the 11DQ10's schottky diodes.....penny for penny the best upgrade I've done in the various cdp's I've moded. |
...
| quote: | Originally posted by iamwhoiam
Power supply bridge recitifier diodes were replaced with ultra fast types and paralleled with 100pF Wima FKP polypropylene caps. Original Diodes = 1N4002, replacements = UF4002 |
Already replaced these with UF400x types and bypassed with film caps. These caps suppress any noise generated by the bridge diodes as they switch on and off. Might replace these diodes with super fast BYW98-200/BYW100-200 diodes in the future (25ns reverse recovery time). |
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| i2k92 |
I've started my mod today by removing the muting transistor and changing the power cable to a 3 x 1.5 mm no name cable. Even with this small changes, the improvement is audible. I tested with a CD of John Mc Laughlin-Al Di Meola-Paco de Lucia (three guitar gods) and now I can clearly hear their fret noises and more bass. Not sure if it's the effect of the trans or the cable.
I also remove the connection to the HP amp, but I don't hear any improvement, so I will put them back.
Regarding muting trans, yes there are some audible side effect, normally when you turn on / off the player when the amp is on. I can hear weak "plop" from my speaker. But I can always turn on my amp after the player and turn it off before the player. The other effect is another weak "plop" when I press play after inserting a new CD, but it is very weak and I can live with that considering the improvement I've got.
Tomorrow I'll replacing some capacitors with Elna & Blackgate (very few of them, too expensive).
I will also try to add some LED on the transport are, I got the idea from : http://www.1388.com/articles/pioneer/. They said that Krell have done this too.
I'm not sure to replace the opamp or not as I'm not brave enough to play with SMD component. |
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| iamwhoiam |
Anymore news on your mods?
Might remove the muting transistors next time I open the player up.. |
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| i2k92 |
It takes some time for the Elnas and Blackgate to break-in, I let the player run for several day non stop. My impression is that the sound is warmer now, perhaps that's the effect of the Elna caps.
Today I'll replace the rectifier diode with BYW98-200. I've got these diodes for 1 month, I haven't installed it as the pin is to big for the PCB hole. I'm going to buy a small drill to make the hole bigger.
Next, I've plan to replace the opamp with AD8066. I have to order it from US or Australia, as I can't find it at all in Europe. Then, upgrade the clock with Tentlab's XO module (the clock only, not the XO2/3 board, too expensive) and give it a separate PSU. and offcourse, replace the caps on the digital section.
Anyway, where did you get your ad8620 from ? And what is the result after adding those gigantic caps on your player's PSU ? cause I'd like to have a try |
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| i2k92 |
| Free samples, is it really works ? I click Buy online on that site, then I have to register, I follow the instruction. But then I have to enter a VAT ID ? What is that stuff ??? |
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| iamwhoiam |
I wouldn't abuse the samples programme like that though.
You can get it at RS Components:
RS Stock No. 497-0975
Part No. AD8620ARZ
The smoothing capacitor swap didn't do much difference to the sound in my opinion. But I had some spare 3300uF/35V Panasonic FC low impedance types so why not? :D |
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| i2k92 |
I received my ad8066 and ad8620....I need to practice the SMD soldering first with an unused old Sound Blaster AWE card.
At last, my 5400 comes alive !!! I think that It already break in after I run it nonstop for several days. The sound was great, it can produce better bass and clarity now. Those BGs and Silmics upgrade really work.
I tested it with Diana Krall's "Girl in another room", the acoustic bass became so powerful and the cymbals are smoooooth.....I can almost hear the sound of the drumstick....
Next plan: add some bypass MKP on the electorytic caps on the output stage, replace the caps of the digital section PS, replace the opamps and perhaps replace the coupling caps with good film caps if I can get some room for them.
Next target : my Cambridge Azur 640A..... |
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| i2k92 |
| quote: | Originally posted by iamwhoiam
The smoothing capacitor swap didn't do much difference to the sound in my opinion. But I had some spare 3300uF/35V Panasonic FC low impedance types so why not? :D |
Sorry, what I really mean is those huge yellow coupling cap. If they're really good, I plan to replace mine with some Audyn MKP 10 uF.
Anyway, I'm agree that PSU cap mod didn't bring a significant improvement... |
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| jomar |
| quote: | Originally posted by i2k92
I received my ad8066 and ad8620....I need to practice the SMD soldering first with an unused old Sound Blaster AWE card.
At last, my 5400 comes alive !!! I think that It already break in after I run it nonstop for several days. The sound was great, it can produce better bass and clarity now. Those BGs and Silmics upgrade really work.
I tested it with Diana Krall's "Girl in another room", the acoustic bass became so powerful and the cymbals are smoooooth.....I can almost hear the sound of the drumstick....
Next plan: add some bypass MKP on the electorytic caps on the output stage, replace the caps of the digital section PS, replace the opamps and perhaps replace the coupling caps with good film caps if I can get some room for them.
Next target : my Cambridge Azur 640A..... |
i2k92
May I know what caps and what values did you use as a bypass for the V+ and V- of the AD8066ARZ ??
Cheers,
jomar |
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| 4real |
Sounds good.
So, what did you do now? Cut the clocks near the two chips and solderd the clock output directly to the pins? So you used the 16.xx Mhz clock? Where did you get the supply voltage from?
Oh well, I guess, I'll wait for the pix :D
I also wanted to use the XO with a slightly modified version, using a 2.2 mH inductor in series and a 2200uF/0.1 uF in paralell with the 7808 as an extra filter.
I guess, I'll order the stuff tomorro if we have do new order at work, together with the opamps and some new caps and stuff...
I'm really excited!
Edit: what the hell happend here :bawling: A whole bunch of posts has suddenly gone...!
Edit2: Ah, some split the threads. |
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| JonHarrison |
Hi,
I've been trying to follow this thread but does anyone have a link that I can follow to download the service manual that isn't broken ?
Cheers,
Jon |
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| JonHarrison |
Hi 4real,
I did put 'cd5400 service manual' 'cd5400.rar' and 'cd5400.pdf' into Google first before posting and drew a blank, honestly. Thanks for the link.
Jon |
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| EC8010 |
| quote: | Originally posted by 4real
Edit: what the hell happend here :bawling: A whole bunch of posts has suddenly gone...!
Edit2: Ah, some split the threads. |
Yes, I split the thread. It seemed to me that the clock modification was a thread in its own right.
I'd offer to email the manual, but it's an enormous file (45MB). |
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| 4real |
| quote: | Originally posted by iamwhoiam
A Polypropylene foil 8uF "Audio Grade" by LCR to replace the Elna Starget 10uF I originally had in there. Thing's huge and had to mount off board. [/B] |
I hope you realize that those output caps are not the only ones in series! After the dac each channel has two 10uF caps in series as well! |
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| gfinlayson |
| I've zipped the 5400 manual and dropped it here. It should be a bit more manageable at 8.44 MB. It should also download reasonably quickly as well - it took only 16 seconds on my connection. |
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| Max the Great |
When I was checking the layout of the lowpass filter I dicovered something strange.
Resistor R201 (R301) is connected to R202 (R302)with capacitor C211 (311). According to the application note from Cirrus this capacitor should be connected to "earth".
http://www.cirrus.com/en/pubs/appNote/AN048Rev2.pdf
This application note shows the filter suitable for the CS4392.
Has anyone noticed this?? |
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| 4real |
| Oh well, I guess, you should check how it is connected on the real PCB, since this manual isn't really acturate at times. |
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| Max the Great |
I did.
Anyone else? |
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| 4real |
| quote: | Originally posted by Max the Great
Anyone else? |
I might be on to something here maybee. I shorted all the six caps in the signal way, to check the sound without the caps. Well it improved, but guess what: I measured about 250 mV of DC on the output :eek: . I'm going to check where this comes from next week. It could be the DAC, or the filter/buffer... If it's the buffer, that would indicate that there is something wrong with the design I guess, I can't imagine that those 250mV is intended. I changed the opamps to AD8620's though, but that should not matter I guess... |
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| 4real |
Well, it turns out the DC comes from the DAC caps. If you leave them in, and short the output cap, you get no DC at all on the output!
So iamwhoiam, those huge LCR caps are not needed at all! Also, you gain more if you replace the DAC caps, as I did:
(never mind the cam)
I Replace all four 10uF elcos with 5.6uF 400V 5% Audyn MKP-QS caps, and shorted the output cap. |
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| pwan |
I'd like to have minimal touch on my CD5001.
A). What is the simplest but most audibly effective in term of sound improvement?
B) Will only change those 6 audio coupling cap (C201,C202, C301, C302, C210, C310) help? Thanks.
C). Will the electrolyte Blackgate N series (~ US$6 each) be worthing?
Thanks. |
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| zanash |
4real..........
are those muting transistors .......?
get rid of them and be very suprised at how much they hold back this player |
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| pwan |
iamwhoiam, All
Sorry if this sound a dummy question. I was aspired and try to do some mod on my newly bought CD5001. My 1at attempt will be to replace the 6 bipolor coupling to ROE electrolyte non-polar with 0.1 bicap. It should be the simplest upgrade and have audible difference I guess.
However, I got stuck at the beginning.
Could you advise how to unlock the ribbon cable between the mainboard and the CD drive (also, those two ones between the m/b to the control panel PCB? Thanks. |
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| pwan |
| Finally, I've done it. |
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| zanash |
just be careful with the ribbon cables ......
the push in one needs to be lifted square and fitted the same way.
the others with the clamp are easy |
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| iamwhoiam |
Due to the overwhelming response from people requesting the service manual, I have re-uploaded it here:
http://www.ukns.org/uploads/diy/cd5400.zip (compressed with Winrar in zip format). Might not work in XP, but will definitely work in the latest version of winrar.
RE: 4real
Thanks for the input, I guess I'll take a look and swap those capacitors for the DAC output caps and see what it feels like. Did you find the new opamp improved much of the detail?
edit: Sorry for lack of replies, I haven't used the CD5400 much since. It's now rigged up to my parent's AV system as a better-than-dvd-player-cd-player. Hmmph lol.
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| iamwhoiam |
RE: 4real
Just to reiterate for those who want to attempt this mod. In my original posts I replaced C210/C310 caps. This is not needed as 4Real has found out. So just short them out with a jumper. DC actually comes from the DAC. Which are C201/C202 (left channel), and C301/C302 (right channel). So replace them with audio-grade polyprops :)
RE: Muting capacitor mods
Remove Q404/Q405/Q406/Q407 |
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