| neurot |
I am just starting to learn about car amps and would like to see what various manufacturers have done in terms of board layout, components, and general construction.
Well, I have an old Advent PA250 which is a 2x50W bridgeable amp. It uses one KTD718 NPN and one KTB688 PNP for each channel. Switching mosfets are IRFZ34 and the PWM generator is the TL494, which I am finding is a fairly common unit. The rectifier is two independent TO-220 chips which I can't find anything about. The package says 2502n and 2502c for the other. Each has an independent heatsink and is not connected to the main sink. There are two NJM4558 opamps sitting next to the bridge switch and input sensitivity pot, but I haven't looked at what they are doing yet. I don't know much about the transformer and don't have any test equipment around to check voltages.
The bottom of the board is full of thick traces with lots of solder on wach trace, which I assume increases current capacity. There are no plated vias, just holes, and the top of the board has jumper wires to the other side.
Like I said, I am still learning, and it would be nice to see what other amps look like, as I would eventually like to build one. If this takes off, I will go pull the punch 400x4 out of the truck and snap a few shots of it. |
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| maxw |
I love seeing the insides :devilr: I open pretty much everything that comes into my posession. Anyway.....
Here is a cheap audio-strada ASA-2150, 1x150WRMS when bridged, its a really cheap amp: |
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| maxw |
| A phoenix Gold QX-4150 |
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| maxw |
| Close up of some of the QX4150 |
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| maxw |
| A Phoenix Gold Sapphire SA 3.0X, 4 ohm bridged @ 13.8 VDC - 300 WRMS x 1 |
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| maxw |
| And for good measure an Alpine 3900 DAC :D |
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| profuse007 |
someone blew up this gut
power precision
PPI-2150M
i am a noob to amp... period!!!
switchers: IRfz34
________: 2n6487 and 2n6490
^^dont know what it is
and still a noob. broken amp
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| neurot |
Wow, the layout on the QX4150 is nice. Is there any SMPS that does not use the IRFZ44 or 34?
Looks to me like the emitter resistor on the far right is cooked. Indicative of a shorted output device? Just a guess... |
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| Tekko |
| I must say i always wanned a car amp to repair but i cannot drive them, no ps big enough. Heres a pic of a diy amp i meant for car use. |
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| maxw |
That Trutech one is a beauty!
Wima caps and BB opamps:
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| djQUAN |
| quote: | Originally posted by maxw
That Trutech one is a beauty!
Wima caps and BB opamps:
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IR mosfets and machined connectors. all comes with an enormous price tag. :xeye: |
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| spots25 |
ESX Q120.4
US Acousics 800F (Zed made)
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| Celestra-rules |
| Here is a beauty you don't see, check it out. AMAZING build and sound quality to compare only to high end home amps. |
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| Celestra-rules |
 OPPS HERE IT IS |
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| tsmith1315 |
profuse007 wrote:
| quote: | switchers: IRfz34
________: 2n6487 and 2n6490
^^dont know what it is
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PPI used 2n648x/2n649x for the output transistors. The only mosfets were in the power supply.
Tim |
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| BuzzerBro |
I just got this PPI Tube Driver Amplifier. I am not sure if its a TD275, TD2150, or TD1250. Anyone know which it is?
Check out the pics here:
http://photos.yahoo.com/tariq_azhar |
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| pgjoyride |
some PG amps, will find a ZPA shot soon.
M100 |
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| pgjoyride |
| ms1000 (now this is a big amp) |
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| pgjoyride |
| zx500, I will try to get some of the main board only. (as you can tell I dont know how to add multiple pics in one post. |
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| TO-3 |
Took me forever to figure out how to get this pic small enough to post. But finally, here it is.
Butler Audio Tube Driver BLUE: TDB2150 signed by BK, himself. |
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| maxw |
| quote: | Originally posted by TO-3
Took me forever to figure out how to get this pic small enough to post. But finally, here it is.
Butler Audio Tube Driver BLUE: TDB2150 signed by BK, himself. |
Niiice :devilr: |
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| TO-3 |
| quote: | Originally posted by maxw
Niiice :devilr: |
Thanks. It sounds even better than it looks. Now if only I had a car to put it in............:bawling: |
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| maxw |
| quote: | Originally posted by TO-3
Thanks. It sounds even better than it looks. Now if only I had a car to put it in............:bawling: |
Feel free to put it in my car :D |
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| TO-3 |
| quote: | Originally posted by BuzzerBro
I just got this PPI Tube Driver Amplifier. I am not sure if its a TD275, TD2150, or TD1250. Anyone know which it is?
Check out the pics here:
http://photos.yahoo.com/tariq_azhar |
Hey man- I know it's not the 275, but it is silkscreened on the board somewhere. I didn't see it in any of your pics, and it's been a long time since I worked on those, so I don't remember where it is exactly. At least it has the DC protect(MK Savior) board on the bottom. |
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| Tomg |
I'm quite fond of my Sony XM-2000R:
does the job nicely :D |
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| maxw |
| quote: | Originally posted by Tomg
I'm quite fond of my Sony XM-2000R:
does the job nicely :D |
wow, thats a beautifull beast! especially for a Sony :cool: |
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| Tomg |
| quote: | Originally posted by maxw
wow, thats a beautifull beast! especially for a Sony :cool: |
Isn't it just, it's damn heavy too, something like 27Kg! |
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| sid216 |
| sony make a quality car audio product... HA. wouldn't beleave it untill i've seen it... and i just think i did... |
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| romen |
| quote: | Originally posted by sid216
sony make a quality car audio product... HA. wouldn't beleave it untill i've seen it... and i just think i did... |
The devil has been known to deceive those who are blind to it. ;)
Anyways, ill post my pics up on my car AMP soon... when the camera battery recharges |
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| Dr. Fosgate |
Phoenix Gold MS275
Phoenix Gold M25
Phoenix Gold M50
Phoenix Gold M44
Phoenix Gold ZX450v2
Phoenix Gold Xenon X200.4
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| Dr. Fosgate |
Here are some more…
Rockford Fosgate Power T5002
Rockford Fosgate Power 750X
Rockford Fosgate Punch 400.4
Rockford Fosgate Punch 60ix
Rockford Fosgate Punch 100 DSM
Rockford Fosgate Punch 100ix DSM
Rockford Fosgate Punch 100x2 Transana
Rockford Fosgate Punch 4080 DSM
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| Dr. Fosgate |
And the last of my stash…
Zapco Z100C2-SL
Exile X600.4
This is my Phoenix Gold MS1000TA, after I hand wound new transformers for it…
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| RCBandwidth |
| Thanks for those outstanding photos... |
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| Dr. Fosgate |
| Looks like a PPI AM something or other. The one with the internally bridged outputs, so you have to run both channels separate. Maybe an AM2400 or something? |
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| Dr. Fosgate |
Here is my favorite PPI amp…
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| maxw |
| quote: | Originally posted by Easyamp
geuss this one. |
Its a beauty. Is it a PPI? |
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| Easyamp |
| I'm not sure? It was handed to me to repair and the owner is unsure. The amp has no stickers or numbers on it. |
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| TO-3 |
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Dr. Fosgate
[B]Here is my favorite PPI amp…
...........................................
Those are nice little amps. With the help of a 15VDC power supply, you can get that guy up to 75W x 4. I wish I could find some nice pictures of the PPI 2500F1.
2500F1 Audio Side
2500F1 Power Supply Side |
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| TO-3 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Easyamp
I'm not sure? It was handed to me to repair and the owner is unsure. The amp has no stickers or numbers on it. |
That's an old school PPI Amp. I think it is a 2150M. I know I fixed a bunch of those things when I worked there. What is wrong with it? |
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| Dr. Fosgate |
I think what is wrong with it, is it has hard wired cables on it!
:dead: |
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| Dr. Photon |
| does that ARC-AUDIO 2100CXL have any components mounted enderneath the circuit board (on the back side)? The design is very clean, almost barren. I can see all the required parts except for the emitter resistors (I'm assuming bipolar outputs, since there's some TP-220 devices, presumeably as drivers). I only see one resistor per channel. are the emitter resistors surface mount on the back of the board? |
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| sr20dem0n |
That's as far as I got in the "disassembly", so I'm not sure if there is more on the backside of the pcb. If it was sitting right here I would take it apart further and see, but it's installed in the car running my tweeters, so it's a bit of a hassle.
I do have a much larger version of the same picture if you'd like, not sure if that would help you at all though |
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| Dr. Photon |
| I just find the lack of any large through-hole emitter resistors odd. Everything else looks like it's on the front of the circuit board though (and most car amps I've seen had everything on the front, save a few with predominantly through hole parts and single sided boards that had a few SMT resistors and caps on the bottom of the board). |
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| oPossum |
| quote: | Originally posted by Easyamp
geuss this one. |
That is a PPI 2300AM. I have one on the bench right now if you need any voltages or waveforms. You can find my hand drawn schematics of it here
Be aware that the power supply in the AM series is *not* PWM! |
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| Matt@Nearfield |
| quote: | Originally posted by Dr. Photon
does that ARC-AUDIO 2100CXL have any components mounted enderneath the circuit board (on the back side)? The design is very clean, almost barren. I can see all the required parts except for the emitter resistors (I'm assuming bipolar outputs, since there's some TP-220 devices, presumeably as drivers). I only see one resistor per channel. are the emitter resistors surface mount on the back of the board? |
I'll have a check tomorrow (we're the UK distributors), but yes,they are bipolar .. some of Robert Zeff's finest - and boy do they have some grip :D |
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| Tomg |
| ello Matt! Didn't know you ventured round these parts! :p |
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| Matt@Nearfield |
| Wotcha Tom, I read more than write :) |
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| winslow |
| I'll have a few pictures of some amp guts to go up soon. |
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| ocool_15 |
| quote: | Originally posted by spots25
ESX Q120.4
US Acousics 800F (Zed made)
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what does the second transformer do? I've seen 2 different transformers in several amps. I am guessing one for the preamp ect and one for the power amp or is the second one part of some filtering? |
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| Dr. Photon |
| the second transformer has two coils wound on it to regulate the supply rails. the ends of each coil are between the outputs of the rectifiers and the filter caps. This is a called a choke input or choke regulated supply ("swinging choke" if you're using heavey ones with tube amps!). the two coils are wound on the same core so that transformer action can balance the supplys and make them "equal but opposite. The same technique is used in PC power supplies. |
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| Safe_Cracker |
Pheonix Gold X1200.1
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| matjans |
bump
Excalibur x200.4, a not-so-new one i got for $10. One set of transistors were blown. They were pretty hard to find but i've managed to order them. 2SB778 & 2SD998. |
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| sid216 |
this here is a soundstream rubicon302... i got this for the special ultra low price on $0.00usd. im a very proud owner...
yes i know the pic is poopy... i need a better digi cam... |
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| maxw |
3 more amps I got the other day.....
Soundstream Class A 100 II:
Soundstream Reference 405 (5 channel):
Phoenix Gold MAC200 (Audiophile version of MS275?):
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| sid216 |
| quote: | Originally posted by maxw
3 more amps I got the other day.....
Soundstream Reference 405 (5 channel):
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i love that amp... i almost got the 705s when they had them at fry's electronics (outpost.com) were i live... but i had this silly little thing called rent to pay... life stinks...
what do you do with all of these amps anyway? if i may ask? |
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| maxw |
| quote: | Originally posted by sid216
i love that amp... i almost got the 705s when they had them at fry's electronics (outpost.com) were i live... but i had this silly little thing called rent to pay... life stinks...
what do you do with all of these amps anyway? if i may ask? |
The 705 is very nice!
I buy and sell car audio equipment just out of interest and keep somethings for my self, or just play with new stuff then on sell it. I think I will sell the ref 405 soon as I prefer to have a separate amp for subs ;) |
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| ocool_15 |
| quote: | Originally posted by sr20dem0n
I recently opened up my other amp (others posted earlier in this thread), here are a few pics:
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Interesting design works well I would think. The power devices are all T0220? I guess the heat sink in the center would isolate the amp from the power supply also. The extra torroid(s) confuse me(under the fan) the 2 upper ones part of the power supply.
The lower one/caps by the connections I guess is some part of a regulated supply?
smaller ones on yellow torroids are part of filtering I think. |
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| sr20dem0n |
Forgot to mention what amp it was, in case no one picked it up from the logo on the heatsink and the pictures' filenames, it's a Cadence ZRS-8.
I didn't have a chance to see what type of output transistors were being used. Those black clips were on there very tight and I didn't feel comfortable brute forcing them off just to see what transistors were sitting underneath. I'm not sure about the torroids, I don't have much experience in amplifier design so your guess is as good as (read: better than) mine. It does have a regulated power supply though, so you might be right. |
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| Safe_Cracker |
Now that you guys mentioned the extra torroids, what are the ones to the left for? This amp is unregulated and those suckers get hot!
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| EnvisionAudio |
Those are actually DC inductors which perform the function of filtering the HF content native to a switching type amplifier, namely the Class D.
Without those inductors, ~130V of 100kHz (pk-pk) hash would go into your woofers and throughout your speaker wires, causing havoc with yours and the neighborhood's radio reception.
The fan is an excellent addition - Cadence had problems with their inductors getting so hot that they unsoldered themselves from the board, initiating a shutdown. |
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| Safe_Cracker |
| Ya, with the PG 1200, the whole bottom is a heatsink, I was so impressed by it ability to stay cool, even running @ 1ohm. Polo..:) |
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| ocool_15 |
| quote: | Originally posted by EnvisionAudio
Those are actually DC inductors which perform the function of filtering the HF content native to a switching type amplifier, namely the Class D.
Without those inductors, ~130V of 100kHz (pk-pk) hash would go into your woofers and throughout your speaker wires, causing havoc with yours and the neighborhood's radio reception.
The fan is an excellent addition - Cadence had problems with their inductors getting so hot that they unsoldered themselves from the board, initiating a shutdown. |
so there just in series with each supply rail and act like a lowpass crossover? Lot of wire but I dont know as much about this class D but makes sense. Just thought the voltage drop would be too signifigant (Re of coils ect) for it to be effective. |
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| EnvisionAudio |
| quote: | | so there just in series with each supply rail and act like a lowpass crossover? |
No, they're in a configuration with two capacitors to form a second order L-C filter in series with the speaker output connection.
Like this:
Courtesy Maxim Integrated Products, Inc. |
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| djQUAN |
| hmmm. do I see kapton tape used for TO-220 insulation for the cadence amp???:cool: |
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| sid216 |
| that visonik amp pics i posted... that is the crappiest amp i have ever heard... i think the sparkomatic bass cannon has more impact tham this thing hooked up to anything. |
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| marko |
| quote: | | Phoenix Gold MAC200 (Audiophile version of MS275?): |
hi maxw, what is differance between these 2 amps? i know the power differances but want to know more! i own several ms275's and ms2125's too! |
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| maxw |
| quote: | Originally posted by marko
hi maxw, what is differance between these 2 amps? i know the power differances but want to know more! i own several ms275's and ms2125's too! |
Hey Marko,
I'm not really sure. The AC stands for "audiophile class" and in its specs it has lower distortion and high S/N ratio so I guess maybe it just has better matched components inside or something like higher tolerences. I dont have a regular MS275 to compare it to. I'm gonna sell it now anyway as I have a Digital Designs amp to drive my sub ;) |
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| ocool_15 |
| quote: | Originally posted by marko
hi maxw, what is differance between these 2 amps? i know the power differances but want to know more! i own several ms275's and ms2125's too! |
If the s/n ratio is better and the distortion I would suspect the semiconductors used were of better quality the the standard ones. Like the op amps in the preamp. perhaps the power supply had better filtering/less noise. |
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| denis59 |
Hi ! I'm french, so I hope you'll excuse my english :angel:
We purpose to me a Phoenix Gold MAC 200, so I don't know this amp and I like to know if it's a good amplifier to plug with a MB Quart PSD 213 component.
I'm looking for quality, both dynamic and clearness.
Is this a good amp for this use ?
Thanks a lot ;)
PS : I've mailed Phoenix Gold to know the difference between a MAC 200 and a MS, that's their answer :
"The amp is a great unit and will function well for almost any moderate power purpose. I do not have a manual for the amplifier that I can provide you but if you look a the dimensions of the unit and compare it to the same size “MS” chassis amp, it is the same unit with a different power supply. The power supply in the “MAC” is optimized for 8 ohms vs. the 4 ohm rating of the “MS” so the 4 ohm rating of the MS amplifiers would be the same for the MAC except at 8 ohms instead." |
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| maxw |
| quote: | Originally posted by denis59
Hi ! I'm french, so I hope you'll excuse my english :angel:
We purpose to me a Phoenix Gold MAC 200, so I don't know this amp and I like to know if it's a good amplifier to plug with a MB Quart PSD 213 component.
I'm looking for quality, both dynamic and clearness.
Is this a good amp for this use ?
Thanks a lot ;)
PS : I've mailed Phoenix Gold to know the difference between a MAC 200 and a MS, that's their answer :
"The amp is a great unit and will function well for almost any moderate power purpose. I do not have a manual for the amplifier that I can provide you but if you look a the dimensions of the unit and compare it to the same size “MS” chassis amp, it is the same unit with a different power supply. The power supply in the “MAC” is optimized for 8 ohms vs. the 4 ohm rating of the “MS” so the 4 ohm rating of the MS amplifiers would be the same for the MAC except at 8 ohms instead." |
Interesting answer they gave you denis. I love it how PG are so honest, its great!
Here is the manual for this amp:
ftp://208.187.38.55/Phoenix_Gold/Ma...rs/MS_MAC_Amps/
and yes I think it would be good for those MBQ components ;) |
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| denis59 |
| quote: | Phoenix Gold support
The power supply in the “MAC” is optimized for 8 ohms vs. the 4 ohm rating of the “MS” so the 4 ohm rating of the MS amplifiers would be the same for the MAC except at 8 ohms instead." [/B] |
Is it important ? What's difference between 8 ohms and 4 ohms power supply ? |
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| maxw |
| quote: | Originally posted by denis59
Is it important ? What's difference between 8 ohms and 4 ohms power supply ? |
Its important but it will be fine for your speakers which are 4 ohms. You cant bridge it into 4ohms or use it as 2 ohm stereo ;) |
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| ronnsull |
| I was wondering if anyone had the schematics availible for a Phoenix Gold M50. |
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| Ocelaris |
Here is the amp I am currently working on... an a/d/s/ P640, 6x40 or 2x120 and 2x40
Motorola 1302a and 3281A to-247 output transistors, 8xNDP7060 Power supply FETs, bandpass and high pass active crossover network built in...
perfect for a 2-way active setup, bridge channels 1+2 and 3+4 for mids, and use 5 and 6 for tweets.
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| ROBJETS |
| I have an M44 PHoenix Gold that I was working on and while I was un sodering a bad resistor I accidently ripped a trace on the left side of the resistor to the right on the picture shown.If someone could post a better close up of the area it would help me greatly because I cant find where the trace origianlly went.I was using a battery operated board sodering iron and apparently it wasnt hot enough.I have searched and search and havent found any good closeups of this board.This is still my favorite amp even though I have newer ones. |
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| ROBJETS |
| What I need is a closeup right in front of the two big blue capacitors.In front of the right one to be exact.None of the closeups for M44`s I found didnt show this area. |
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