| yldouright |
| Inspired by the group buy for PEC carbon pots in another thread, I thought it would be a good idea to put the purchasing might of our membership to the task of finding a sub $20 audio pot solution for our projects. Members are encouraged to identify possible candidates and then the process can begin. Let the name dropping begin. |
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| GothWolf |
| quote: | Originally posted by yldouright
Inspired by the group buy for PEC carbon pots in another thread, I thought it would be a good idea to put the purchasing might of our membership to the task of finding a sub $20 audio pot solution for our projects. Members are encouraged to identify possible candidates and then the process can begin. Let the name dropping begin. |
I wish these messages were dated better.
Anyway - the problem I see here is some people want a direct volume pot (dual ganged, audio taper), while others might use a single pot that controls some other circuit to adjust the volume (even seen a single tube based circuit that noise filters a linear pot and does a log change of both right and left channels as equally as possible).
Other people may want a pot with a limit-switch-off when you turn it all the way down, and others may want a push-button. Some people want motorized for use with remotes.
Personally I want the limit-switch for on/off, a momentary contact when you push the knob, AND a motor, preferably with an LED in the knob (or maybe behind the knob with just a hole in the knob to let the light through and radiate from behind as well ... hmmm). Anyway - I'm not gonna get that without having them custom made (a possibilty - plenty of places would do it), but not at my needed quantity of 1.
I think everyone's application is too different to buy pots in bulk because everyone builds something different around the basic gainclone (which doesn't need a pot). You'd need a standardized preamp design.
-- Evan |
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| yldouright |
GothWolf
Your application is indeed esoteric but I would say that the majority of people here on this board need good stereo 25K log pots. They are versatile and can be ganged for balanced operation for those planning Pass Labs stuff too. An additional benefit is that purchased in quantity, I can match them into sets of pots which will track nearly perfectly and that is something that the individual purchaser cannot do economically. |
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| kilowattski |
yldouright
The problem you will have is what resistance Pot to order. Not all preamps have the same impedance and unfortunately one size does not fit all. Some of the Pass Labs preamps like the Aleph P 1.7 and BOSOZ need 5K pots. |
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| Variac |
| BUT if you look over the PEC thread, you will see that the 25k pot is the most desired - because of gainclones I think, so there could still be a viable quantity fo a group order. It just wouldn't be for everyone, but what is? |
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| yldouright |
kilowattski, Variac, Gothwolf and others
This post does not exclude any pot. All it proposes to do is identify which pots are needed by our membership. The PEC 25k pot is desirable for the Gainclone but there are other phono stage and chip pre-amp projects which also like this value. If the X-BOSOZ requires a 5k pot, then another category could be started which can be included in the same group buy. The point here is to identify which pots are desirable for which projects and why they are. In this enterprise I expect to see a trend develop which will give us a list of the high quality pots and an estimation of the potential demand. The bigger the order, the more power we can have in getting the price we want to pay for those pots. At $40 delivered for the PEC pots, the ladder attenuator starts looking like a viable alternative and with that, you can make any value and log scale that you wish. |
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| Variac |
Ok, I agree that $40 is pretty steep, which is why we are here:D
In this thread carbon track /silver wiper pots from Alpha are mentioned and confirmed as pretty decent:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/show...10&pagenumber=1
So I went to Mouser and found a different pot made by Alpha
with carbon and silver:
The one that is noted as having a silver wiper is the 17mm one
partly down the page:
http://www.mouser.com/catalog/620/433.pdf
So I am nominating this pot as a test case as a likely good sounding one. It comes in all relevent values and audio or straight taper.
Different shafts too! |
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| DSP_Geek |
| quote: | Originally posted by yldouright
kilowattski, Variac, Gothwolf and others
At $40 delivered for the PEC pots, the ladder attenuator starts looking like a viable alternative and with that, you can make any value and log scale that you wish. |
Funny you should mention that. Check out:
http://store.yahoo.com/triodeel/4pol24posals.html
$20 for a 23 position 4 pole switch ain't bad, as far as I can tell. Has anyone here done business with Triode Electronics?
Assume about 50 resistors at a quarter a crack, you're in the same ballpark as the pot. Does anyone have an opinion on series resistor ladders?
Francois. |
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| Variac |
That switch does look like the deal!
I'd like to know more about the contact material, but copper might be OK if the switch is used consistantly
Did I mention that the audio taper pots I mentioned above are $1.13 each? They have a built in switch, that is probably silver contacts too.
You can get linear ones without the switch and do the law faking thing.
Heck, maybe I 'll grow up and just order a few.... |
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| Variac |
I guess a group order to Jaycar then?
I just realized that the pots I referred to are all single gang. I was going to use them on monoblocks, but for general use most people don't want a knob per channel.
So Jaycar seems to be the source for thes- too bad they don't have conventional shafts. |
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| mrlots2do |
| quote: | Originally posted by Variac
I guess a group order to Jaycar then?
So Jaycar seems to be the source for thes- too bad they don't have conventional shafts. |
Viariac
Jaycars US$ pricing is very reasonable. Shipping is air mail. I would love a misc item group buy from Jaycar.
I have several things picked out. Should anyone be interested, I have time and could help organize and distribute these items.
Phil |
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| tommak |
| quote: | Originally posted by Variac
So Jaycar seems to be the source for thes- too bad they don't have conventional shafts. [/B] |
Does Jaycar have some matching knobs that would fit these pots? |
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| Variac |
they have these knobs:
http://www1.jaycarelectronics.com/p...eMin=&priceMax=
I have used an aluminum knob with a setscrew, made for a 6mm shaft
on this type of splined shaft. I was able to get it to clamp quite well and it didjn't wobble. I aligned the setscrew so it was pressing on the slot. |
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| yldouright |
I see the boys have come out to play. It's nice to see this thread heat up :)
DSP_Geek
I think this is the direction we should take. A ladder attenuator is likely to serve the greatest population because of the flexability it offers in its buildout but we must be careful. Peter Daniel has posted his findings on "cheaper" make before break switches and he called them unusable because of the noise introduced with each new switch junction. This is not to say that the ones you suggested suffer the same illness but as in all things, it would be a good idea to get a real world report before making a commitment. Thanks for your post.
Variac, tommak and mrlots2do
Welcome and thanks for your input. The more candidates we can find, the better our chances of finding the ideal part(s). Frugalphiles unite!
frugalphile used with kind permission of planet10 :) |
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| dw1narso |
Just to share with you... guys...
A few days a go I try a Taiwan Alpha 16mm (? not sure actually) 10K Linear dual gang pot on my gainclone amp. (replacing Citec 100K log pot) Though the look of the Alpha pot is just so-so (the Citec looks better), the result is very good. The bass is a bit flabby but the mids and highs are glorious.
They look like the picture I attach (got it from Electus site) but mine with metric shaft, rather than imperial as in the picture.
Might be the same unit is available in Mouser is in: (drawing F or H, but dual gang and linear)
http://www.mouser.com/catalog/620/433.pdf
Now the interresting part is... this pot, in Indonesia, I get it for about US$ 40cents...
Regards,
---
David |
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| Variac |
| I suspect that all the Alpha carbon pots have silver wipers, so you are probably right- I suspect all of their carbon ones sound good. The Mouser people seem to have no interest in dual gang Alpha pots, which really hurts us! Watch out, we might need a group buy from Indonesia!!:D |
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| dw1narso |
>>> Watch out, we might need a group buy from Indonesia!!
:rolleyes: |
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| mrlots2do |
The US$ pricing at Jaycar is half that of the posting from Electus Distributors.
Could you find out what shipping options cost to the US? |
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| dw1narso |
Regarding the Alpha pot that I use,
It looks like Sherman, in his moded SI digital amp, use the same pot as mine:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/show...0012#post550012
So it must be available in US as well.
Give it a try... when you able to found it...
REgards,
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David |
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| grege |
| quote: | Originally posted by mrlots2do
The US$ pricing at Jaycar is half that of the posting from Electus Distributors.
Could you find out what shipping options cost to the US? |
I looks like it would be significantly cheaper for me to buy from Jaycar US?
You don't get the real prices until you have a Electus account. I can't imagine the prices actually being better than the US prices plus the postage would be significant. |
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| zBuff |
Funny about those prices and the Jaycar US prices being so much cheaper, I noticed that too a while ago, emailed them about it. via the Australian email and the New Zealand one, no reply. :xeye:
Considering Jaycar is an Australian company and all. Maybe there suppliers are US? but judging by the prices it looks like they've never changed the exchange conversion rate on their site since over 2 years ago.
Let me know if you manage to order via the US site to get it delivered to an Australian address, they don't seem to allow it, insisting you go to your regional site.
You would think going through Electus Distribution would be even cheaper than the US 100+ quantity Jaycar price. Which reminds me I should really get an account with Electus.
I'd be in on any group buy of pots around the sub $20 USD price range. |
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| mrlots2do |
| quote: | Originally posted by grege
I looks like it would be significantly cheaper for me to buy from Jaycar US?
You don't get the real prices until you have a Electus account. I can't imagine the prices actually being better than the US prices plus the postage would be significant. |
I was nosing around Jaycar site and found they're prefered shipping method for international is Fedex airmail. So off to Fedex I went, I plugged in Jaycar's zipcode and mine. Your not going to like this. A 10 pound 9"x12"x8" package is nearly $200 USD. The component final pricing would need to be adjusted due to shipping cost yet would still be very reasonable.
On the good side, We could get a hugh amount of small stuff in a package that size.
100 - misc. 9mm dual gang log/linear pots
100 - misc. 16mm dual gang log/linear pots
100 - misc. multi turn trimpots
100 - 40 pin dual inline jumpers
100 - 2way PCB mount screw terminals
100 - 3way PCB mount screw terminals
100 - 5amp 12way screw terminal strips
100 - 10amp 12way screw terminal strips
200 - misc 3mm and 5mm led's and clips
These are just a few items that I thought would be a good group buy. What items would everyone else like to see in a buy.
Phil |
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| mrlots2do |
| quote: | Originally posted by mrlots2do
I was nosing around Jaycar site and found they're prefered shipping method for international is Fedex airmail. So off to Fedex I went, I plugged in Jaycar's zipcode and mine. Your not going to like this. A 10 pound 9"x12"x8" package is nearly $200 USD. The component final pricing would need to be adjusted due to shipping cost yet would still be very reasonable.
On the good side, We could get a hugh amount of small stuff in a package that size.
These are just a few items that I thought would be a good group buy. What items would everyone else like to see in a buy. |
One other thing!
Australia's international shipping cost are sharply changed by weight and package size. Jaycar states final delivered costs will not be determined until packaged. So I guess we play roulette on final adjusted part costs to group buy participants.
I still think the final pricing will be reasonable. Anyone think not!
Phil |
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| yldouright |
| Hey guys, it looks like there has been a breakthrough in the PEC carbon pot deal. Price is now $14 for 250 units. I'm in for 4 of those pots at that price but will reserve until then. I don't know who has taken over the deal but it looks like BrianGT rolled this strike :) |
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| Praudio |
Get some Alps 10k dual audio log surplus(new old stock) motor run on 5 to9 vdc (if needed). Use two for balanced,for a 20k: go for a quality resistor in serie(15k-20k) and this pot across.
Only 12$ each, take 20 for 10$ each,take 50 for 9$ each and take
100 for 8$ each. Non inductive resistors 15k at 1.50$ each. Also lot of dual pot dual shaft 50k ,100k alps new old stock . |
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| Variac |
| Even for only 100 units the PEC Carbons will be $21-25 certainly a big improvement. Probably only in one value, probably 25k ohms probably at least a month for them to be made. Come join us if you need some upscale pots. So far we don't have enough people to order 100 . |
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| Praudio |
My personnal choice go for transfo 1st, 2nd for ladder built with
Vishay(very costly) or Holco(non magnetic NOS). Since the post
was for low cost pot I just offer my extra . |
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| Variac |
PrAudio,
I was responding to yldouright not your post. I agree your info is still valuable. IMHO it would be more valuable if you listed where you got this stuff you are mentioning. |
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| Praudio |
Those 10k are mine since about 10 years(fab dat 1993). Get them from distributor for a special project.
The 50k/100k Alps carbon(quad pot, dual shaft) come from Harman Kardon new never use preamp board( pots still on board) about 30 boards for sale. |
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| Peter Daniel |
| How much for 10kA version, those are for volume, right? |
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| motherone |
I'm definitely interested at the PEC @ $14/each. I'm also interested in those Harmon ones listed above..
I'm with PD -- how much? |
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| Praudio |
| Look post 29 for details. Come without the nut. |
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| Praudio |
Here a pic of Harman Kardon preamp board. The two pots on right are quad with dual shaft .The value is 50k(Alps made in Japan).The left one is quad but single shaft 100k,the last one is
the balance 50k linear. Price 30$ with knobs,24$ without,have very few boards with. |
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| scone |
This thread is a bit dated, I don't know if anyone is still interested in a sub $20 solution. I found 24mm Taiwan Alpha dual ganged 10K and 50K audio taper pots on mouser.com. They cost $1.96 each in quantities of 10+. Sounds like a good deal.
http://www.mouser.com/catalog/621/452.pdf |
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| Variac |
The pots on p. 452 aren't claimed to be carbon. Except for the wirewound ones, it doesn't say what they are as far as I can tell.
On p. 451, there are 17mm carbon pots with silver contacts. These are the only ones that are stated to be what we want, but don't come dual.
However, in general, dual carbon pots don't seem to track between channels as well as othe types, so maybe one knob for each channel is what we are stuck with..... |
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| scone |
| quote: | | However, in general, dual carbon pots don't seem to track between channels as well as othe types |
The question is, do they track better than our hands and ears? I don't really know, since I have never tried any dual ganged pots... all I know is that it's pretty annoying to have to move two knobs simultaneously to change the volume on my GC. :dead: |
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| Variac |
I have an amp with 2 knobs and it IS annoying.
I have a gainclone with a badly tracking pot and it is annoying and frustrating because you can't fix it when one channel is louder than the other
I guess a solution is to have 2 pots with a belt or other connection
that can slip, connecting them.
Whoa! I just clicked on the part number on the cat . page and the description is for a CARBON pot - well I guess they are carbon after all! |
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| scone |
| quote: | Originally posted by Variac
Whoa! I just clicked on the part number on the cat . page and the description is for a CARBON pot - well I guess they are carbon after all! |
Yep. But they look a bit different than the Taiwan Alphas that have been mentioned before on this message board. For one they, they don't have the forest green casing. Mouser has a little note about them on the product page...and I quote:
| quote: | 24mm POTENTIOMETERS
The marking on the back plate has been changed on the 24mm
Rotary Potentiometers. In the past, the potentiometers were
marked with the MOUSER name stamped into the metal case.
Current parts are stamped with the ALPHA name or logo. There
is no change in form, fit, or function in the application of
these parts.
The 24mm potentiometers are delivered with one(1) hex nut
and one(1) washer. There is additional hardware available
from stock. Stock number for the hex nut is 48AN008. Stock
number for the flat washer is 48CW008. |
I guess they might have a deal with Taiwan Alpha for pots produced specifically for mouser. I couldn't find any product info about the 24mm dual ganged carbon pots on TA's site, nor anywhere else on the internet. It seems like only mouser carries this specific model. Jaycar has things like it, but only in the 9mm range. In any case I'll probably be using them in my pre-amp. You really can't beat the price. :D |
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