| zygibajt |
Hi,
This is my vision of Gain Clone.This is strictly Peter's Daniel version with Black Gate standard,Riken and Caddock.MUR860 diodes.The transformer comes from local company that produces very high quality transformers for medicine purposes.It has electrostatic and electromagnetic shield and is bathed in epoxy.
All parts are mounted on 2 kg copper bar.I used solid core 99,9999+% continous cast copper for signal path and litz cable made of kynar wire wrap wire for PS.This amp is built as power amp.With a good preamp this is such a nice soundig amp!
Peter did a grat job developing this circuit and selecting components.I tried regualted supply but it didn't quite work for me.
Bartek |
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| zygibajt |
| front light up - no there will be no blue light! |
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| zygibajt |
| back open close up |
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| zygibajt |
| copper bar front |
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| zygibajt |
| copper bar fron close up |
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| jtbullet |
| beautiful work. Can you describe your process for machining such nice pieces? |
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| zygibajt |
| copper bar back close up |
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| kafka |
| How did you get sa nice chassis? |
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| zygibajt |
| quote: | | beautiful work. Can you describe your process for machining such nice pieces? |
Thanks..hmm the whole process ,quite complicated...
| quote: | | How did you get sa nice chassis? |
I designed and built it. |
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| ble0t |
| Very nice work! Nothing like a good P2P project plus I love the look of polished copper :D |
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| jtbullet |
| well it's awesome. Can you give us a projected price that it cost to make? |
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| Upupa Epops |
| Extraordinary careful work, mainly copper heatsink. :cool: |
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| jtbullet |
| I'm a newbie to this and I'd like to try my hand at it. What do I need, machinery wise, a drill press, and a table saw with a carbide bit(I'll use aluiminum for the chassis)? |
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| Stabist |
I believe the finisf is "powder paint"??
Is heatsink bare or lacquered? OK - the first option is better for cooling and the 2nd one will prevent the "oxidation" ...
Otherwise great work - something very similar to my next GC which is still in a process of builidng up ... :D |
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| Vikash |
| quote: | Originally posted by jtbullet
I'm a newbie to this and I'd like to try my hand at it. What do I need, machinery wise, a drill press, and a table saw with a carbide bit(I'll use aluiminum for the chassis)? |
There's a lot of information here:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/show...8200&highlight= |
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| moe29 |
Zygibajt,
That is one beautiful amp!
Your chasis and point-to-point work is of the highest quality.
It's too bad the lovely insides have to be covered up.
thanks for sharing. |
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| Peter Daniel |
Thanks for the tribute ;)
Building a nice p2p circuit is an art and Bartek is a true artist. The attention to detail is extraordinary and placing rectifiers on the opposite side of the chips is a nice touch.
While so many people these days get excited about regulated supplies and snubbers, properly implemented, minimized GC circuit is still the best and in a right system it's really hard to improve on it ;) |
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| neutron7 |
all i can say is...
:smash: Great work! :smash:
everything is very well thought out and executed. from the clean P2P to the design and metalworking, even those nice bolts you used. some people dont like to see them but if they are nice ones they are good!
is the finish painted, powdercoated, anodized or something else? i cant really see from the pics. |
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| Franz G |
| quote: | ... and placing rectifiers on the opposite side of the chips is a nice touch.
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I completely disagree: this is the best way, to get the diodes hot or at least warm.
You need surface and airflow to cool, not just a piece of metal to store energy!
BTW: a very pretty amp! Congratulations.
Franz |
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| karma |
| nice detail in your work;) gota love p2p |
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| Upupa Epops |
| To Franz : You don't like warm diodes ? Hot carriers have better sound ;) . |
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| Stabist |
| quote: | Originally posted by zygibajt
front light up - no there will be no blue light! |
Hehe - I must say that after the blue spreaded in almost all projects - it's nice to see green one :D |
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| demogorgon |
Very nice indeed..
a bit sceptical of your "heatsink" though.. these litle gc's produce a lot of heat when pushed to their limits, i found out the hard way, and so one would want a heatsink that has a lot of surface areal to maximize air sirkulation and heat dispation.. a commer bar is far from ideal..
(unless you drill it trough and watercoolt the thing :D ) |
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| Peter Daniel |
| quote: | Originally posted by Franz G
I completely disagree: this is the best way, to get the diodes hot or at least warm.
You need surface and airflow to cool, not just a piece of metal to store energy!
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I bet that in a regular setup ( no heatsinks on diodes), the diodes will run warmer than a chip on a copper bar.
BTW, the whole chassis here is a heatsink, and copper bar acts as a heat spreader, not a heatsink. |
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| peranders |
| quote: | Originally posted by demogorgon
Very nice indeed..
a bit sceptical of your "heatsink" though.. these litle gc's produce a lot of heat when pushed to their limits, i found out the hard way, and so one would want a heatsink that has a lot of surface areal to maximize air sirkulation and heat dispation.. a commer bar is far from ideal..
(unless you drill it trough and watercoolt the thing :D ) |
Kaffekokarn, the important thing is area, how much and how the surface is.
I'll agree that this bar isn't the most cost effective cooling solution but how hot it gets is very dependent how the amp is used and if not the over temp protection goes on everything is alright.
A real nice job! :nod: |
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| jackinnj |
| quote: | Originally posted by demogorgon
Very nice indeed..
a bit sceptical of your "heatsink" though.. these litle gc's produce a lot of heat when pushed to their limits, i found out the hard way, and so one would want a heatsink that has a lot of surface areal to maximize air sirkulation and heat dispation.. a commer bar is far from ideal..
(unless you drill it trough and watercoolt the thing :D ) |
2 C/W to be precise -- you can estimate the heat sink's ratings from the total surface area -- there are two heat sink drawings on National Semi's application note 1192 -- the BPA100 heat sink is 5.375" inches long, 3" wide with 19 fins, each 1" high |
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| zygibajt |
Many ,many thanks for all the good words to all of you guys.
I'm glad you like it as I tried to make it as good as I can.
Yes this is powder coating and copper bar is lacquered.
HEAT???
You must be kidding. I used MUR860 without any heatshink at all before and it worked great.Also in my expirence LM3875 needs very little cooling (a small aluminium heatsink is good enough).
This copper bar works excellent! It absorbs all the heat and transfers it to the enclosure. The copper bar barely gets warm after a couple of hours playing loud music and the enclosure gets slightly warm only in copper bar area.In the front it doesn't even get warm.
The amp works just excellent,it is dead quiet (I tied input grounds stright to the main/enclosure ground) and sounds really good.
My next chip project is an ultimate Gain Clone.It will be supplied from batteries and it will have Siemens MKV polypropylene in oil PS cups (the best signal coupling cup I know so far) either 15,30 or 40uF I will try.I will use either solid core copper,continous cast 99,9999% purity or pure silver all around.I wonder how much better the idea of simple GC can be.
All Best
Bartek |
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| Upupa Epops |
| Bartek, so make this new one like a tube - vacuum caps are ocjective the best, not oil ones :D . |
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| jackinnj |
| quote: | Originally posted by zygibajt
HEAT???
You must be kidding. I used MUR860 without any heatshink at all before and it worked great.Also in my expirence LM3875 needs very little cooling (a small aluminium heatsink is good enough). |
All of the Overture series chips will go into shutdown if they over-heat, or, if the heat sink is under-rated they will cycle on-and-off. That's what the SPIKE system is supposed to do.
I have built a dozen and a half of these amps, inverted, non-inverted, bridged and paralleled -- you can't under-rate the heat sink. National's recommendations -- albeit a bit on the conservative side -- will prevent heartbreak. |
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| Franz G |
Bartek:
I like the design and the making of your amp very much!
| quote: | HEAT???
You must be kidding. |
O.K.
I am thinking in dimensions from tube amps. When your amp in your configuration does not get hot: Good!
But, for some people, it may be interesting, when I show here an example of a class A tube amp:
This 8 golden cathode resistors permanently dissipate about 30W together.
In a first stage, I mounted them under the chassis, at the aluplate.
The result: the whole amp, the trannies, the caps and the chassis got very hot after about 1 to 2 hours. You could not touch the trannies (>80 degrees celsius).
After, I mounted the resistors on this massive aluplate, 5mm thick, as shown in the foto.
The result: after one hour or two, the chassis and EVERY other part still was <30 degree celsius. But after one hour, the aluplate got more than 80 degrees celsius, the parts inside the amp and the chassis still cool.
After, I attached a heathsink, just 11 fins, to the aluplate.
The result: No problem to touch the heathsink/aluplate: about 40 degrees.
Franz |
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| Upupa Epops |
| Franz, are this tubes PL 509 ? |
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| jeff mai |
| quote: | Originally posted by jackinnj
I have built a dozen and a half of these amps, inverted, non-inverted, bridged and paralleled -- you can't under-rate the heat sink. National's recommendations -- albeit a bit on the conservative side -- will prevent heartbreak. |
Anecdotal evidence appears to indicate that the chips do not heat up as much with gainclone type designs where the feedback resistor is soldered at the chip pins. Perhaps this explains varying experience.
Although mounted on a fairly conservative heatsink, mine has never seemed above room temperature. |
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| Franz G |
| quote: | | Franz, are this tubes PL 509 ? |
Upupa: This are PL519 (running in enhanced triode mode eg. grounded grid) and the circuit is some modified Danielak design (DC-coupled).
Franz |
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| murat |
Hi Bartek,
Looks ruely impressive. Simple but elegant.
Beginner question to you: I see 4 resistors in 3875 kit-guide on chipamp.com. But I can see onl 3 in your circuit. Is one of them hidden somewhere? If not, what is your layout? Thanks,
Murat |
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| zygibajt |
Halo and many thanks for good words.
This is strictly Peter Daniel"s circuit with 22K Caddock input shunt ,680R Riken and 22K Caddock feedback resistor that is hidden underneath the chip and is soldered stright to the chip pins.In some versions there was also series input resistor but it is not actually needed, at least in my (and not only mine ) expirence.
Bartek |
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| lohk |
Hi Bartek,
your amp looks fantastic - I personally like the p2p inside. I love copper, should give myself a push an start working with it for another amp...
BTW: Did you check up my p2p (a little hidden by all those cables though...) on my last documented chipamp? I did use those subminiature carbon resistors, they are a bit smaller than Caddocks and Rikens (like in my last, PD "reference chipamp").
Klaus |
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