| Vivek |
Hi all,
How far do you guys think the day is when we DIYers will make our own ICs and possibly tweak ones that have already been made.
Vivek |
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| gilid |
Not to sound too negative, but I am a firm believer in the principle that our (DIY) efforts are best applied to where they will have the most gain. Until we have table top silicon foundries, I do not see DIY integrated circuits being realistically feasible. Unless someone in the group who works for a fab can moonlight for us... ;)
Pehaps we can try casting our own enclosures & heatsinks in the meantime!:) |
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| Vivek |
Right-O Gilid and thanks.
Vivek |
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| jackinnj |
| there were an entire series of articles on DIY op-amps in Audio Amateur. Not the kind you build with a 300mm wafer- the kind you build with your own discretes for better matching etc. |
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| MRehorst |
You can make your own analog ICs. You go to any of the many semiconductor foundries and hand them $50k-500k for a mask set (depending on the process) and all the CAD files and they will run a wafer of your ICs through their fab. Of course, this may be contingent on how many such wafers you intend to run through their fab per month...
Then you go to a packaging house and hand them a pile of money and they'll saw the wafer and package the parts for you. Of course, this may be contingent on how many such wafers you intend to run through their factory per month...
The IC manufacturing process is so expensive that the only way it makes economic sense is to make a lots of ICs (hundreds of thousands to millions). The process is not flexible enough to allow easy/inexpensive modification.
I have recently seen ads for analog"gate array" type chips that are one time programmable (I think). Instead of logic gates, they have analog function blocks that can be connected together. That is probably as close as you'll ever get to DIY analog ICs, until someone comes up with a new process you can run via your ink-jet printer...
MR |
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| Vivek |
Hi MRehorst,
You are talking big $$$. Not worth the trouble at this time.
Vivek |
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| gromanswe |
| quote: | Originally posted by Vivek
Hi
You are talking BIG. worth the trouble?.
Vivek |
g |
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| gromanswe |
Building an Microphone Pickup
I tweaked an OP in middle segment
to get very low noise intake.
It was 8 pin DIL/DIP single device!
Nice THREAD.
"Keep it CLEAN"
cheers VIVEK
gro |
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| Vivek |
Keep your comments coming guys. I believe amateurs are a bright lot whose talents are never really recognised.
Vivek |
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| gromanswe |
How is weather in BANGLADORE
tao day
yes tao day
my sport AIKIDO!
greetings
from
Sweden
Our king have a lovely Daughter |
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| Vivek |
Hi Gromanswe,
If you are asking about the weather here, it is sunny, about 27 degree C. Lovely weather and you cannot find such a lovely weather anywhere in India but in Bangalore.
Vivek |
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| gromanswe |
I'll be ON the next AIR Wave
with my plane |
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| janneman |
| quote: | Originally posted by MRehorst
[snip]
I have recently seen ads for analog"gate array" type chips that are one time programmable (I think). Instead of logic gates, they have analog function blocks that can be connected together. [snip]
MR |
Mark, yes, you'll find them at www.anadigm.com. They are analog gate arrays, a bunch of opamps, switches, rectifiers what have you, which you can program to make certain functions. Not really hifi but very usefull for auxiliary functions like psu regulators or power amp protection circuits or filters. Program can be changed even on the fly, so a controller may "built" a new circuit depending on what's going on in the system. Fascinating. And they have an evaluation board.
Cheers, Jan Didden |
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| mrfeedback |
Hi Vivek,
On the Pass DIY site there is a paper regarding DIY op amp theory.
Regards, Eric. |
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| Circlotron |
I think a home made vacuum tube instead would be cool, and closer to reality too. Jam jar, light globe filament, flyscreen wire, metal tubing, decent vacuum pump. It's gonna be gassy by commercial standards, but the resulting pale blue glow would look good in any darkened loungeroom.
And with a hand wound output transformer and hand made chassis, that would have to be the ultimate in diy. Maybe even powered by a hand-cranked generator for diy electricity too. ;)
GP. |
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| janneman |
| quote: | Originally posted by Circlotron
[snip]. Maybe even powered by a hand-cranked generator for diy electricity too. ;)
GP. |
As a Dutchman, I would prefer a stationay bike with a dynamo for power, OK?:cool: |
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| Vivek |
Circlotron,
Your idea is a lot more practical than mine. Have you attempted it or will you? What ____tron will you call it?
Eric,
I have seen that article.
Vivek |
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| Mr. Triatic |
"How far do you guys think the day is when we DIYers will make our own ICs and possibly tweak ones that have already been made."
we are, sort of, half-way there...those PIC-circuits make it very easy to construct gadgets that would be near impossible for a homebrewer otherwise...if you have got the nerves to compile those damn files...they're not very good for a man's mental health... |
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| tiroth |
Some Universities have small fabs that really can make small numbers of ICs....such as my alma mater, the University of Illinois.
Make some friends with the faculty, and go from there. ^_^ |
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| mirlo |
Actually you can get ICs made in small quantites for a lot less:
http://www.mosis.org/
... but still ends up being rather expensive.
Although the process described as "low noise analog" CMOS 1.5 micron is dirt cheap (relatively speaking) at $1100 or so for 5 parts, I suspect it wouldn't really be suitable for anything like what people here think they want.
More likely would have to use one of the BiCMOS processes.
You can buy an awful lot of AD8610s for $1100. |
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| Circlotron |
janneman, Vivek,
One upon a time we used to have *pedal powered* vacuum tube transmitters / receivers for use in isolated places where your nearest neighbour could be hundreds of miles away.
http://www.antiqueradio.com/traeger_pedal_07-99.html
We have better radios here in Australia nowadays. ;)
GP. |
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| mirlo |
Although DIY ICs isn't really a worthwhile pursuit, I can wholeheartedly recommend the following for learning things about electronic design:
Analysis and Design of Analog Integrated Circuits, by Gray and Meyer ( and now also Hurst and Lewis added some chapters to the latest edition I guess )
Design of Analog Integrated Circuits and Systems , by Laker and Sansen
In my opinion, these books blow Sedra and Smith out of the water, as they are far more concise and filled with information.
Concise being the operative word, they aren't exactly easy to read. Or cheap. But if you make the effort to read it, you won't be sorry, especially if you got lucky and found a used one at a university book shop. |
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| Vivek |
Hi Circlotron,
Nice link.
Vivek |
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| janneman |
| quote: | Originally posted by Circlotron
janneman, Vivek,
One upon a time we used to have *pedal powered* vacuum tube transmitters / receivers for use in isolated places where your nearest neighbour could be hundreds of miles away.
http://www.antiqueradio.com/traeger_pedal_07-99.html
We have better radios here in Australia nowadays. ;)
GP. |
Very good, this guy was an inventor in every sense of the word. Now, had he added a couple of wheels and a handle bar, he could have actually gone somewhere as well. Oh well, can't think about everything, can you?:) :)
Jan Didden
PS Your copies are underway |
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| Circlotron |
Is this the kind of bikes you have in Holland?
GP. |
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| sam9 |
| Upon initial reading of this thread my reaction was that DIY IC's were out of the question. However, as lark I browsed the industrial section of ebay. There is a lot of 20 year old technology for sale. It's still a stretch, but I someone had the right industry experience and more determination than sense, it just might be do-able. I can't think of any sensable reason to do it except to prove that one could. It would an undertaking out of proportion to the likely results. |
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| MRehorst |
The equipment is one expense. Then there's the clean room, chemistry, toxic waste, deionized water supply, and etc. to contend with. And unetched wafers cost $1k or more each depending on size and materials.
You'd have to be Bill Gates to make ICs on a hobby basis.
MR |
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| Elso Kwak |
Hi Vivek,
Why do you want to make DIY IC's?.
I have spent quite some time to design a discrete "IC" because it sounds better.
Of course it takes a lot more boardspace etc. but the good sound counts for me.:confused: |
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| sam9 |
| quote: | Originally posted by MRehorst
The equipment is one expense. Then there's the clean room, chemistry, toxic waste, deionized water supply, and etc. to contend with. And unetched wafers cost $1k or more each depending on size and materials.
You'd have to be Bill Gates to make ICs on a hobby basis.
MR |
As I said, take a look on e-bay. In the industrial section search for "wafer", "sputer", "Plasma", "etch", "coater", "Thin film" and so on. See what turns up. Remember you are not looking for full scale 2002 production setup. You are looking for 80's era lab prototyping equipment. For instance 4 inch wafers fabs are long gone but 4 inch NOS wafers in the original packaging do turn up from time to time for far less than $1k each.
You would need a hobby budget bigger than mine but far smaller than Gates. I live in Silicon Valley and there is no doubt there are a number people who have the budget, it's just that they are too busy thinking about their next start up or waiting for their potfolio to recover. |
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