| Kofi Annan |
I'm running out of ideas to fix a problem, so I'm back at well... again.
About a month ago, I purchased a Thorens TD-160 from Ebay and installed a Grado Black cartridge. Although the belt is stretched (waiting for a new belt to arrive) and the playback is too fast, it really sounds nice. Unfortunately, every time the tonearm gets near the center of a record, it begins to skip badly.
Here's what I tried to do to fix it:
* Re-balanced turntable (I'm not very good at this)
* Increased / decreased tracking force
* Increased / decreased anti-skate
* Cursed uncontrollably
* Blamed Mrs. Annan
Nothing so far has worked. I'm thinking that the belt may have something to do with it, but I'm not sure. Also, its possible (although I hope not) that the tonearm is on its way out. I'm inclined to believe that it has something to do with the tonearm-- maybe the anti-skate is getting on and its being a bit too agressive? Also, it certainly possible that I have screwed up the cartridge mounting-- never had any experience with this, but I was fairly meticulous about it, so I hope its right.
Anyway, I'm out of ideas, so if someone could just come to the 33rd floor of the UN building and fix this, or at least offer some advice, I would really appreciate it.
Yours in asenine questions,
Kofi |
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| Carondimonio |
Hi Kofi,
nice to see you around again!
I didn' t quite understand your problem; what do you mean by "skipping"? Does the arm jump from one groove to another, or does it repeat the same groove over and over?
As far as I understood, your problem happens only when the arm approaches the inner part of the record, right?
Did you have this problem right from the start, or did it appear only recently?
And, last but not least, if the arm jumps from one groove to another (yes, I know, it' s just a single, spiralled groove...), does it do always in the same direction (that is, always forward or backward) or randomly?
Cheers,
Bruno |
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| audio-kraut |
Dear Mr. Annan, are there not more serious problems you have to attend to?;)
When you balance the toneam neutrally - that means no forces are applied in the vertical (weight) or horizontal position (antiskating), can you then move the tonarm without problems from the outer edge to the inner edge of the arc? My suspicion - a problem that I had wiith similar thorens tonearms: the tonarm wire where it exiits the wire bushing on the bottom of the arm actually exerts a force and you have to make sure the wire is run in a way - somehow a loop - that is is not effecting the tonearm movement. Trial and error only helps here.:D |
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| AndrewT |
Hi kofi,
I agree with audio-K.
Set both the downforce and antiskate to zero. Arm should hang level with tip just 1mm above the record surface and when you place it anywhere above a track it should stay there.
Check for free movement of the arm across the whole width of the tracks.
regards Andrew T. |
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| Kofi Annan |
| quote: | | the tonarm wire where it exiits the wire bushing on the bottom of the arm actually exerts a force |
That was it!
| quote: | | you have to make sure the wire is run in a way - somehow a loop - that is is not effecting the tonearm movement |
Actually, I just kind of rigged it so that the wire is run around the hole thingee and not directly run into it. Too technical?
Anyway, that did the trick. Finally, I'm listening to Stevie Wonder at about 110% speed (the new belt did not arrive today, as expected) in my living room! Sing it, Littler, Faster Stevie!
Thanks again for all the input. Without this forum, I'd only be the Secretary General of the United Nations. Now, I'm the Sec Gen wit da shizzle, dizzle!
Now back to the Iraqi elections. January will be here before you know it.
Damn.
Kofi |
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| Kofi Annan |
UPDATE
I broke the goddamn tonearm wire. Please stop me from killing.
Can I fix this or will I have to scorch the tonearm in the all-cleansing fire?
Please help me. Please. For the sake of the world.
Kofi |
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| planet10 |
i'll 3rd that suggestion... it is also possible that the tonearm has rotated in its mounting (IIRC they can do this)....
dave |
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| audio-kraut |
http://www.theanalogdept.com/tp16mkii_rewire.htm - good news first: if you have that arm, it isn't that bad and with some ppatience and a lot of swearing it can be done. If you have the arm with the idiotic stainless steel headshell where the cartridge has to be screwed on from below:mad:
In this case you can try to remove the plastic connector on the bearing side of the arm after removing the aluminum union (watch that pin) by pushing it with some long blunt instrument (failed screwdriver) inserted from the rear of the arm - HOLD THAT ARM FIRMLY - cut off the old wire about an inch away from the plastic connector and fix new wire to the remainder - carefull soldering and then somehow insulating with the thinnest heatshrink available?? or careful with some electrical tape.
The new wire should be pushed into the arm as soon as the old one has been removed - push in from the bottom of the arm mount, and than through the hole in the bootom of the arm tube all the way forward, make sure enough is hanging out on both ends.
Watch that you can fit the whole shebang back into the arm, someone carfully pulls the wire back from the mounting end of the arm while the other person pushes in the plastic connector: WATCH THE PIN ORIENTATION of the connector, and then push back on the alum. piece and reinsert the pin that secure both plastic conn. and alum. union.
Confused - no problem, just let me know when you are ready to jump ;) |
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| Kofi Annan |
Thanks for the advice, AK. Unfortunately, I have the idiotic-screw-in-from-bottom deal, so it looks like I'll be working on that this coming weekend.
So, to add to my frustration, my new belt came today and IT PLAYS EVEN FASTER THAN THE OLD ONE!!!
Hey, does this sheot happen to anyone else but me?
Anyway, I figured maybe it just needs some time, so I'm currently letting it spin around and around. Is this something that will get better in a few hours / days after it plays for a while or am I just screwed forever?
I gots stick to international crisis resolution. Easier on the stomach.
Kofi |
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| audio-kraut |
Hi kofi - whre did you get thos turntable from? It sounds to me your pulley ain't the right size.
I didn't glue in to your speed problems right away, otherwise I could have told you it is unlikely to be a belt problem.
I have my 160 in the attic - waiting for the new tonearm to be installed:( - which by the way is the one with the proper and not the idiotic headshell - and cannot for the life of me remember if that unit is somehow switchable between 120/220V.
Because if that unit has a motor that can operate on both voltages my guess is that your pulley is the one for 50Hz euro power, which then runs faster fr sure on the 60Hz grid..
Have to check this out, or maybe another bloke has the answer.
:D |
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| Kofi Annan |
Got the turntable from a woman who runs a book store in Philadelphia. I'm kinda hoping that this means it isn't the pulley, but with my luck, she probably just got back from Germany.
If it is the pulley, do you know where I can find a replacement? I know that Trian has some parts, but I don't think they carry pulleys.
Kofi |
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| till |
| ask joschka, i´m sure he will be able to send you one from germany. |
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| Kofi Annan |
Thanks!
Uhhh.... who's joschka? |
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| Carondimonio |
Kofi, Kofi...
you REALLY don' t know who' s joschka?:D |
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| Kofi Annan |
Hey man, I got no time to hang with the cool kids! I got a planet to deal with! What, do I gotta answer three ancient riddles or something?
Anyway, if you can get me in touch with joschka and he gets me the pulley, I'm sure some international crisis resolution funds can find their way to him, if you know what I'm sayin'.
Kofi |
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| Mark25 |
| rather than messing with pulleys, you could go for a DC motor upgrade. |
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| Kofi Annan |
Getting too many solutions here. What's the advantage of the DC motor upgrade versus the pulley? My guess: the pulley will not need to be replaced if I upgrade the motor.
Good guess, eh?
Kofi |
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| audio-kraut |
Hi kofi - if you consider dc moroe - not a bad idea - than you also need a powersupply for same plus something more or less complicated to control the speed - 45, 33 etc. for several 100$
While a pulley - available in germany from: http://www.phonosophie.de/Pulley.html
for about 90 euros (app. 117$ US and rising)
You probably have to state that you need one for 60Hz. |
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| planet10 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Mark25
rather than messing with pulleys, you could go for a DC motor upgrade. |
Or even just a AC regeneration controller for the 50 hz AC motor... a thread on that subject would be something i'd like to see (applicable to those with 60 Hz motos too)
dave |
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| Raka |
| Dave, do you mean a power supply with sine wave generation? This has been discussed in more than one thread, or do you mean something else? |
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| Mark25 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Kofi Annan
Getting too many solutions here. What's the advantage of the DC motor upgrade versus the pulley? My guess: the pulley will not need to be replaced if I upgrade the motor.
Good guess, eh?
Kofi |
sorry for my vague post, i can find the DC conversion i was thinking of, but you can DIY a DC motor (i can't find that link at the mo either!), but if you can find one that fits your pulley, then you only need a relatively simple DC PSU for it. There's lots of Thorens info here:
http://www.theanalogdept.com/index.html
Good Luck |
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| Carondimonio |
| quote: | Originally posted by Kofi Annan
Getting too many solutions here
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Quick-and-dirty solution: reduce the diameter of your pulley!
Dismantle it from the motor, install it on a drill press and start removing some material from the pulley with a file. Don' t be in a hurry, remove small amounts of material, than reinstall the pulley on the motor and check how much the TT has slowed down. Repeat the procedure until you get to the right speed. At this point, just make the pulley' s surface smoother using some very fine sand paper (with the pulley on the drill press, of course...)
| quote: | Originally posted by Kofi Annan
Anyway, if you can get me in touch with joschka...
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Hmmmm no, unfortunately I can... but ask Gerhard, for sure he can... (sorry Kofi, could not resist...:D )
Cheers,
Bruno |
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| Kofi Annan |
| quote: | Originally posted by Carondimonio
Quick-and-dirty solution: reduce the diameter of your pulley!
Dismantle it from the motor, install it on a drill press and start removing some material from the pulley with a file. |
OK-- I can handle this. Since I have nothing to lose at this point, I'll give it a try. This TT purchase has been a complete disaster from start to finish. No big deal, actually. When you're a Secretary General of the United Nations, you can afford to buy a few duds.
Is there some way I can check the speed scientifically? That is, rather than using my ears, can I make sure that its really turning at 33 1/3 revolutions per minute?
| quote: | | ask Gerhard, for sure he can |
OK-- the joke's on me here. I get it.
Hey-- no world peace until I get some apologies for this!
Kofi |
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| audio-kraut |
No need for gerhardt, he is in too much doodoo. What you need is a stroboscope disc and a light - incandescent.
Check ebay, should get them for cheap.
I would lend you mine, but after your last statements i do not know how secure your job is
;) |
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| Mark25 |
maybe worth getting down to the local model shop and seeing if they have something you could use/modify. saves having accidents with yours, which could be worth saving/selling by the sounds of things.
Mark |
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