| Property |
| quote: | Originally posted by ace3000_1
and what about the brightness of your monitor? your monitor might be brighter than mine and might have a different contrast setting too, wana callobrate them as well? |
Like i explained when first posting this suggestion, A description of external lighting conditions ALONG with a scale of how much brighter/darker the posted pic is from reality should be enough for an understanding of the posted pic. Like i already said in a previous post, once i have this information, i can adjust the brightness on my screen (and everybody can adjust the brightness on their own screens) to what looks to me to be equivalent to the external lghting conditions described, and then be able to say "The actual result is *approximately* so-and-so-scale brighter/darker than the posted pic.
Ok...i think i understand your point now...Then the scale is not necessary, but a standard way to describe external lighting condition should be sufficient and necessary.
You may be arguing, ace3000, that it's not possible, but i disagree and i think a good discussion could yield a good standard.
| quote: | Originally posted by proto5
Property:
Give it up. It's not gonna happen.
Just start building a projector using the info already here. All this formula and weird water cooling **** does nothing but alienate us "more experienced" DIY's in here. And quit posting so much, cause we really don't give a **** about 99% of your posts so far....and you don't want to get booted..... |
This was not a necessary post. And contributes nothing in as much as a way to understand posted Pics is STILL NECESSARY. Instead of complaining Proto5, I suggest you come up with a way for everybody to be able to understand Posted Pics.
You two are getting too excited at an opportunity to debase others.
The fact is that YOU may not care about being able to decipher posted pics (especially you Proto5)....
But a little forethought into the fact that this Projector Forum may go on FOR YEARS and into possibly TENS OF THOUSANDS of posts (as it has been doing), and may advance into BETTER TECHNOLOGY as better technology comes around and gets CHEAPER and MORE AVAILABLE, suggests that an agreed upon standard for understanding and posting results is a
**WORTHWHILE TOPIC TO DISCUSS.**
are you arguing that it's not? Then say so (Proto5), and give good reasons why not, instead of resorting to threats and insults. |
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| proto5 |
Prop-
Like Ace said, it's not do-able. But you cant seem to give up! Believe it or not you are not always in the right. People like that really tend to grate on ones nerves....
Us more experienced BUILDERS see a newbie come in and start spouting all of these weird bizarro posts and ideas and sorry, but I for one am sick of listening. why not quit posting till you have something to show, like most of us did.
This is Proto5's last post to do anything with property- at least till he puts his $$$ where his mouth is and posts photos of his fish-tank cooled 10 million lumen blow your socks off projector that he never really intends to build. I'll be the first to eat crow if it ever happens. |
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| Property |
| quote: | Originally posted by zardoz
I understand what it is you are trying to do..but without establishing a "baseline" that can be applied from one setup to another your results will be "skewed".
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Baseline is the sun, and should be adequate. Remember, i'm asking for a standard way to describe external lighting conditions... If you say it's 4pm mid afternoon with blinds full open, I can adjust my screen to look like 4pm blinds full open. Sure this system is not perfect. But there is room for refinement. For instance angle of the sun in relation to the room ("the sun is streaming in through the 4'x3' window on the left at an angle of 45degrees"--- we need a way to encode this)... Whatever the method...I'm sure we can come up with an acceptable way to do it, couldn't we?
| quote: |
Even if a baseline could be established there are still too many variables...screen gain...lamp source...signal source....on and on... You would need to say ok with a model#XXX movie screen @ X number of feet from the PJ...with bulb X...and panel X....and signal X...resollution X....even after all of this is established you are relying on the "eye of the beholder" to be the final factor.
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These are all variables which can be ANALYZED AFTER interest in the posted pic is shown. In Fact this is the whole resone WHY i am suggesting a standard here be constructed. So that if we are interested in someone's pic, we can THEN find out what are all
those other variables that you mention.
REMEMBER: This may seem like overkill for the primitive states our projects are in now...But these designs could conceivably become more and more sophisticated in the future as technology improves, gets cheaper, and gets more widely available.
| quote: |
It should be noted that the builder of a DIY projector will see shortcomings you as the audience might not. Likewise a builder might say "gosh I'm happy with this thing...and it's oh so bright.." but to you and I, having invested nothing in that particular setup it might look like ****. |
Exactly the reason why we need a standard way to interpret results!
I realize that everybodies eyes are different...But this is the variable we need to least be worried about. We need a way to determine how YOUR diy would look to ME. |
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| Property |
| quote: | Originally posted by proto5
This is Proto5's last post to do anything with property- at least till he puts his $$$ where his mouth is and posts photos of his fish-tank cooled 10 million lumen blow your socks off projector that he never really intends to build. I'll be the first to eat crow if it ever happens. |
Putting words in my mouth. |
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| ace3000_1 |
ok a couple of questions, 1 why dont the pro's use somthing like this? acutallualy i beleive they do and its called ansi screen lumens, u buy the machine and we will do it the same the pro's do, ok second when i post a pic and if i have a tree outside, do i count the leaves on the tree and measure them aswell and calculate how much light the tree is blocking from the sun?
o and one more thing, u know that glass in windows is not all of the same u know, some block different rays than others so we would have to have a baseline on that too i think, pluss i think weather your paint on your wall is gloss or flat, and the colour of it, the light being absorbed by carpet compered to vynal floor coverings
i mean come onnnnnnnnnnnn
Trev |
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| Property |
What i'm suggesting is a DIY way.
Not upto the standards of PROs who use $20,000 projectors...but still worthwile to do...And the better we can make it, the better.
The diy way, isn't it? |
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| ace3000_1 |
| uh huh and if u read back in the forums there are ways of calculating this too so u know what light u want to use or need too, not the most acurate but beats buying a machine, probally not acurate enough for u property |
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| ace3000_1 |
| hey zardoz ive calculated out how fast a colour wheel would need to spin running at 60hz and thats 3600rpm prety darn fast lol |
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| Property |
Look at this picture posted by Undream a few pages back:
Can you tell me what time of day it is?
Think it's 12pm? Adjust the brightness on your screen...looks like different time of day now.
What about that window on the right...is that diffuse light? Or is the sun coming through that window and the blinds are diffusing it? Where is the sun? Has the sun risen? Is the sun even lighting that room? How bright is that room? What time of day is it?
Wouldn't you like to know without having to hunt for the answers...
Wouldn't some sort of DIY standard way to at least come close to SOME KIND of interpretation of the pic be desirable?
How about something like this:
time: 12:00pm
Sun: To the Right of the room
Coming in at 45 degrees
Ratio of Brightness outside to Brightness in the Room: 100/50
Wouldn't that give you a better understanding of the pic???
No?
What if the information was the following:
Time: 5am
Sun: Right of Room 25 degrees
Ratio of Brightness outside to Brightness in the Room: 100/75
Now you have to adjust the brightness on your screen...don't you.
WOW! 3 lines of extra information...how painful.
Imagine if this was a standard that we made everybody include with their posted results...That would suck, wouldn't it?
What if we made this included information better, more useful...and of course standard...boy that would suck!!
Espescially for future (more sophisticated?) incarnation of our DIY projectors...that would sure suck! |
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| ace3000_1 |
well u can start property starting with your own pics, until then make your own conclutions about others, what u see is what u get
bye bye |
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| verbose mustafa |
property,
You really seem to want you idea of a "standard" to fly with us. The fact of the matter, as every one above has said, is that it is simply not possible. Why not? Simple. If I am a newbie who has never built a projector and i'm looking at a result shot that says
"this picture was taken at 3:46 PM on an overcast day with the J.C. Penny brand mini blinds 3/4 closed. The light entering the room was comming in at a 180 degree from the window angle hitting the ceiling. The picture was taking with a sony 1600 digital camera "
Ok? So how does a sony 1600 render colors? How does the light coming in the room at a 180 degree angle affect the image. If these conditions are happensing, and the picture looks one way, how do i know what it will look like at 8:00 when the sun is down.
I myself have been doing this for some time now and have build all sorts of projectors. I can tell pretty well from pictures what an image really looks like and if the person is using a ****** digital camera or there projector sucks. For most people there projectors dont suck, their cameras do. You have to remember what ace said, these pictures are to guide you, not to sell projectors. Before you start designing a rating system, build a projector! Simple as that! I really think you have no clue just what thes things actually look like.
Want a rating system? Here you go... this is the best way to do it. Take your pictures at night.
Property, it seems like it only you who reall cares about this whole rating the picture thing. Well i have some news for you... People are not going to take the time to make a detailed description of their external conditions in the room just for you. Every one here knows that they can build a projector with xga and higher image quality and 300:1 contrast ratios! What does that mean? It looks good!
I want to wish you luck on you project and i urge you... read every post on this forum... even if it takes you 2 years! There is so much information just sitting here to be assimilated. Hell, if i read the forum more when i wasa newb... i would have saved alot of money.
good luck any how |
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| Property |
wow, what an inspiring answer.
Makes me think you will avoid going along with it just because you've been arguing so long against it. |
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| Property |
1. You are assuming i haven't read the forum.
2. You are assuming that this "standard" would just be for us and our primitive incarnations of projectors....Not for future readers, DIY builders etc...
I mean you think i want this just for "selling projectors"???
Isn't part of this forum for comparing systems??????????????????? |
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| verbose mustafa |
| Now your telling us to turn up the contrast/brightness of out monitors... but that does not change anyhting about this image... It simply makes it look washed out/dark. What you are saying we should di is borderline photoshoping an image. If anything, doing this degrades the quality of the image. Prove me wrong though... TEll me what brightess/contrast levels, resolution, refresh rate, etc to set my compaq MV720 monitor to to make undreams image look right. |
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| ace3000_1 |
| this is a learning forum not a comparison forum and if it was a comparison forum u look like ****! lol |
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| verbose mustafa |
| lets ask remp what he thinks :D |
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| Property |
| quote: | Originally posted by verbose mustafa
Prove me wrong though... TEll me what brightess/contrast levels, resolution, refresh rate, etc to set my compaq MV720 monitor to to make undreams image look right. |
I can't. I don't have basic information like time of day.
But if you had just that *ONE* piece of information, i'm sure you could make the picture approximate how it really looks much better. Try it...
Let's say it's 5am and the sun is just rising...Now adjust the picture yourself to look like what you think is 5am sun just rising...Wow! makes a big difference doesn't it? And that was just with *ONE* piece of additional information. |
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| Property |
Sure adjusting the pic to look like 5am sun just rising might STILL not be true...
BUT IT'LL BE A WHOLE HECK OF ALOT closer an approximation to the TRUE result than when the picture looked like 4pm mid-afternoon.
And that's just with *ONE* piece of additional information. |
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| zardoz |
Thus far I have not heard one voice that agrees with your idea of applying this "standard" ...if you feel the need to prove to us that this makes a lick of sense, I believe you will need the co-operation of some other group.
"Imagine if [ this was a standard that we made everybody include with their posted results ] ...That would suck, wouldn't it?"
Don't imagine too hard that you can push this through as some sort of "policy" with so far the only responding members saying "nay". You also have a moderator voting "nay".
"1. You are assuming i haven't read the forum."
I also have to assume you haven't read the forum, if you had you would not have concieved the notion to "amp" a panel ...as this particular idea would do nothing more than toast a perfectly good panel.
We WILL work with you, don't expect us to work FOR you.
We will work with you when you show us that you have a basic understanding of these technologies.
Don't begin to think that I am sugesting that you shouldn't "think out of the box" because thats why we are all here...to get outside the box.
Trouble arises when you "force" a rating system on anyone....play along OK? ....I've just made a major upgrade to my somewhat "un conventional approach to projection" Will I post my pictures? You bet!
(now we add the conditions you call for ) Will I post them and make some bogus "journal entries" that I for one feel no value in? No...I just won't bother posting at all.
Who looses? We all do..I loose "my shining moment in the sun"...the members loose because they don't get to see what can be done by "my methods".
All because a prerequesit to posting my pics is one that I can't live with.
Everybody want to see my "great up grade" that I made to my PJ?
Don't hold your breath...nothing new on my end...except a panel swap for one that doesn't have broken pixels. Soon though... ;)
zardoz |
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| Property |
"I also have to assume you haven't read the forum, if you had you would not have concieved the notion to "amp" a panel ...as this particular idea would do nothing more than toast a perfectly good panel."
There are also examples of me posting suggestions to other newbies to check out specific posts and examples made by other posters....so don't assume to hard.
Have i read every single post in the forum? Of course not. Do i remember every single post that i've read? Of course not. Do i use search on this forum often? Yes i do.
And as far as "Forcing" a guideline on people, this is not what i'm suggesting and it is obviously untenable.
A simple "guideline for helpful results posting" in the "Post your results" Thread would help in establishing some sort of standard though.
And like i've been saying, a standard that we can all work out, agree upon, and agree works best is what i'm looking for. |
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| rapsac |
Property,
It would be nice if there was a way to compare setups, but that is completly IMPOSSIBLE.
No 2 camera's are the same, nor are 2 hands equally steady.
And dont forget the color of the walls in the PJ room. There are dozens of factors that would influence such a comparison.
And most important: no diy'er is posting results to satisfy your competitive nature. We built these things for OUR pleasure, not yours.
The pics are meant to give an INDICATION of the result, and are often posted to show what needs to be improved.
When you will built your own box you will get enuf experience to guesstimate the brightness of other setups just by looking at the specs. |
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| slize |
WOW!!!!
i never thought this little point of property would be worth such an enormous number of posts... but lets try this. those who want to do it like property suggets should do it, others should leave it. how about that instead of arguing and forgetting to get new results in the forum...
by the way did you already see my projector?
http://www.andyrandy1st.de.vu
p.s. i will post projected pictures with a better camera soon. the pics look like undream's one in reality... |
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| Property |
Rapsac,
Of course i understand there are innumerable factors...just like there are very very many factors differing from one projector to the next....I'm not saying there EXISTS a perfect way to do it...Just like there is no "perfect" projector that we can DIY build at the moment. But we can try to come up with a system which we can agree will give the best results we can come up with...
Sounds familiar doesn't it.
"And most important: no diy'er is posting results to satisfy your competitive nature. We built these things for OUR pleasure, not yours.
The pics are meant to give an INDICATION of the result, and are often posted to show what needs to be improved.
When you will built your own box you will get enuf experience to guesstimate the brightness of other setups just by looking at the specs."
I don't know where the competitive nature part comes from.
And again, alot of you are falling into the trap (as shown in the above quoted comment) of thinking that everything you know now is enough. Some forethought into the future of this Forum and the Future of DIY projectors is warranted. |
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| rapsac |
Forget it, no one will invest any $ to get a good camera/screen etc. just for anyone to compare results.
A diy'er is happy with the results or he isnt. When an improvement is made new pics will be posted to show the difference.
If you or any other need more info after seeing pics you could ask them and I bet he/she would be more than willing to elaborate.
And again: this isnt a competition! We enjoy ourselves building/learning things and watching video on our BIG screens :)
When ppl like yourself need acurate specs then go buy a PJ, you'll know what you will get then.
If the specs are not important (but the result and $$ is) then built your own. You will end up with a satisfactory result either way. |
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| Property |
Well posts #1309, #1317, and #1318
prove my point sufficiently enough for me. Enough said. |
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| zardoz |
The idea of .... "A simple "guideline for helpful results posting" in the "Post your results" Thread would help in establishing some sort of standard though." Is valid...your method...
... IS NOT "SIMPLE"!
Simple would be ...room is to be dark..no light other than the projector...show daytime and nightime shots from a title we all recognize IE: LOTR, Harry Potter... one "cartoon" shot (as mentioned just about any PJ will show a toon well)....indicate the throw and the projected image size. ( I threw those last 2 in because you left them out...they are of PRIME importance...far more important than the ambient light IMHO....)
No further coment from me on this topic, I for one will continue to post my pics as I allways have (some tonight...shot in a dark room@ 12 ft throw...image size TBA ).
The next time I post on this particular topic will be because members have felt "hounded" and have called for moderator intervention, if such proves to be the case I will ask one of the other moderators to handle the complaint as I have lost patience.
Don't take offence...just don't bother responding to ME in regards to this particular idea of yours. I'm certain that you have plenty to offer this forum...trust me ...this idea isn't the one that makes us notice your brilliance.
zardoz |
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| rapsac |
I bet a reply is already in the making so I'll start mine to end my contribution to this discussion:
It is not possible to compare setups when both are not tested under the exact same conditions. This will never happen as it is impossible to re-create conditions when you dont compare the setups in the same room.
It is usefull to know the conditions when you see a pic. If they are not specified you can ask the poster. But even then; the pic will mean %#@%#%# because of the camera used.
The only evaluation worth a dime is the impression of the person that has seen the PJ in action, eg the poster of the pic.
He/she will not lie about the results but will give a discription of the result as good as possible.
If that isnt enough, then buy a PJ or go visit the person who's results you cant 'trust'.
And your statement about ppl not wanting to learn anymore:
I started a couple of months ago with this and I've learned masses about all aspects of diy PJ building. I dont need to built every possible setup to see the pitfalls, my knowledge is sufficient to see them in advance. Obviously you dont know what you are talking about. That in itself is not a problem, we all started with little/no knowledge. But you might want to
- listen to more experienced ppl when asking for feedback on ideas
- do some more research b4 posting
When you are going to built a PJ I wish you a lot of success. If you have any questions then post them (pref. in a new topic) and you will get help.
But PLEASE stop this discussion here (and in any other thread! The board is polluted enough already). |
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| Forrest |
:scratch:
Hi there, posted a few times before and i really need to start adding pictures as it's kinda coming together i guess...
Got a question though, i currently have two 6cm 12v fans spinning away one at the back drawing air in and one at the front sucking it out...
Is this the best way or should i have two sucking in or two sucking out, beasically looking for the best way to get the hot air out of it....
Thanks in advance...
peace. |
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| Property |
Man those "put a fresnel in front of your TV for a 100' TV" guys on ebay are still racking in the dough!! It's a damn shame to make so much money so easily.
And the feedbacks are so funny! Every single one of them is "Product as described" LOL. |
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| ace3000_1 |
| heya zardoz i have a few older pics of the constrution of my diy projector, i have done alot more now and finnished the construction part now just the paint job to go but i have a couple of older pics of what i did wioth the mini lcd tv like layout, do u wana have a look at them or should i post them else where? |
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| ace3000_1 |
ok this is a couple of pics of the first part i built of my lcd projector, im using a 6inch lcd with reso of 960x240 from memory anyway as u can see i made a light box behind the lcd, all boards are under neith the floor that the light box, lcd and light sits on, by the way the light sits at the back where it is bare and is all black, these pics are about 2 months old now and i have done alot more since, im just doing the painting now and in this pic it doesnt show u the main box but just the section that the lcd, light, and electronics is mounted too, anyway have a squize and i hope u will get some ideas from this design i made.
Trev |
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| ace3000_1 |
this second pic u can see what is underneith the floor, it is upside down in the pic, also u can see the front of the lcd at the front, the frensel is mounted behind the lcd in the light box conpartment
Trev |
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| ace3000_1 |
in this pic u can see the lens and the board in pic 1 and 2 mounted to the main floor in the main box, this is when it was far from complete and its totaly made out of perspex and aluminium, i had also made aa light box for the lens and mirror that fits nice and snugly agains the front of the lcd light box, it is not glued or screwed because if i want to make a repair or upgrade all i have to do is remove the screws for the floor and the whole lcd, light and electronics comes out in one hit. Although now that ive completed the main box(not in this pic) some of the other electronic stays in the main box ie relays, balast, power suply, but all wires are made so i can disconect them whenever i want to remover the bottom or light for bulb change. The light box is not in this pic either but if u care to look at the lounge to the right at the back of the pic u can see abit of the back of it sitting on the couch. The way i will change my bulbs is just take the top off the main housing and undo 2 screws, the light is out ready to change, also this main box pic is upside down so u are looking at the bottom.
Trev |
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| zardoz |
Nice compact little setup! Looking forward to seeing your progress to completion. Good overall size on the PJ.
..mines so damn big it could use a drink holder and a steering wheel :clown:
zardoz |
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| ace3000_1 |
not a kia is it zardoz? lol anyway bud thanks for the nice note, when i do finnaly finnish this thing i plan to try and help others out in trying to make a projector more compact, maybe i could take a look at yours and work somthing out with it.
Happy diy
Trev |
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| Property |
| Very nice. Espescially the different modules/boxes idea. Could you maybe post a quick schematic to show orientation and arrangement in boxes and main box. |
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| ace3000_1 |
yeah no prob's ill try to draw one up tonight and post it for ya
Trev |
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| ace3000_1 |
ok this is just a quick drawing not to scale obviously but u can see atleats where the main components go, the fan power supply is a multi voltage that is varable from 1.5-12volts, i chose it because if it is too noisy i can aways run the fans at a slower speed, i have tried the fans in the case at 12v and its not noisy at all, u can just hear the air sucking and evacuating. the fans at the back are at the top of the box to suck the hot air out while the ones in the front push cold air in,the fans over the light suck from front to back so in a way the box has a natural flow of air. I have placed an area for a future ballast for the light i am going to get so i dont get caught out with room and the tv power supply i may not place in the place i have shown, u can also see the light box how it is part of the box and separate from the lcd,light,electronic's unit enabling me to get the lcd unit free from the rest of the box for a future upgrade in lcd,light or electronics. Also in this pic i didnt put a sleeve i madfe for the lens barrel to keep it square and strong and u can also see this projector couldnt be anymore compact, just ask my hands lol
Trev |
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| ace3000_1 |
sorry but i meant to say the mirror box is part of the main box not the light box lol
Trev |
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| pinkmouse |
| quote: | Originally posted by zardoz
..mines so damn big it could use a drink holder and a steering wheel :clown:
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I thought that was your mp3 player, mate;) |
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| zardoz |
Ace3000-1 : Where are ya gonna put the ITX motherboard for the full HTPC setup?...hehe...gonna add a room?
Pinkmouse : The MP3 player is for the KIA ...the projector just "looks" like a KIA ;)
The KIA goes "honk honk"....the projector goes "beep beep" (when there is a BIOS failure :clown: )
What do ya think...cup holder? (don't say DVD tray...its a side mount ;) )
zardoz...will build this thing into his HUGE desk once the "throw issue" is resolved... |
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| pinkmouse |
Hmmm
Looking at that pic, Zardoz, makes me wonder if the ancient Egyptians were actually building DIY projectors when they built the pyramids!:) |
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| zardoz |
I'd be happy if it looked like my Cinqo it looks prety cool...hmmm a KIA mounted PJ...hmmmm possibillities :devily: After all it's gonna have an LCD in it......just a matter of some power hungry lighting and a lens setup......
zardoz |
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| verbose mustafa |
| quote: | | Pinkmouse : The MP3 player is for the KIA ...the projector just "looks" like a KIA |
that thing must sound like a kia to boot :) . |
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| ace3000_1 |
hey zardoz that projector of yours isnt too big, i would have to say it looks abit like "ET" though lol jk u could make it smaller now i know that yours has 1 lens in it and one mirror, i could half the hight of it by putting a bigger mirror before the lens, and having the lens at the right angle after the mirror that way the lens is more to the front wich makes the hight of the thing lower.
Trev |
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| ace3000_1 |
well about the motherboard u are on about lol i could just get a laptop and wack it underneith all, use the laptop screen and the thing would be no more than 5cm higher, i might look into that into the future
Trev |
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| slize |
| do you think yours is big??? look at mine... |
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| ap0the0sis |
ace3000,
that is a VERY impresive setup.
ap0 |
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| Property |
| Looks like a Nuclear Warhead!:dead::smash: |
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| ace3000_1 |
thanks apo, slize i like your design, duno how it works, if u could send us some details abit like a schamatic it would be great, it looks like it belongs in a imax cinema lol it looks mean
Trev |
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| zardoz |
slize: guessing your not married right? ;)
zardoz |
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| proto5 |
Slize:
Which lens is that? How far is the throw to the screen? |
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| slize |
actually i am not married; i am 21 :bigeyes:
but i have a girl friend; and she enjoys watching the films in a cinema style :cool: |
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| slize |
| it is a normal lense from an ohp; throw distance to the screen approx. 80"; picture diagonal 4:3 scale approx. 80" (2,5m) |
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| proto5 |
Thanks!
One of these days we'll find a long throw lens. |
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| slize |
| you could make the throw distance of your lense longer with a bi-konkav lense; may be from an optician; you could scale the distance you need and then buy one spectacles glas with that focus... in combination with one of those ohp lenses you'll get the throw distance you'll need... i treid it and it works, but i don't need that with my setup now because the throw distance fits perfect in my room... |
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| slize |
| here the box is opened... |
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| slize |
| the light box (self built of aluminium, with fresnel lense of ohp in front) and the current supply (origianlly a theatre spot with HQI 400W bulb transferred in the light box) |
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| slize |
| the fixed LCD Panel |
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| slize |
| and finally my screen; made of PVC tablecloth |
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| eebasist |
| How much does your HQI bulb cost and how long does it last? I heard they were a 500-1000 hour bulb and cost 200$....any thoughts or do you have a good supplier? |
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| slize |
first i used a mirror too; the same postion you have it; between the lcd and the lense; but i decided to leave it away because you'll have to much disadvantges compared to a non mirror system:
1st problem i had: a normal mirror reflects the picture 3 times to the screen; that comes from the construction of a mirror; glas silver and final level
the glas reflects and the silver reflects and the final leverl too, so you will have something like shadows on your screen around th emain picture (best visible in dark white to black scenes)
solution: a mirror with no glas before the silver (like ohp have it in a smaller size after the lense)
disadvantage: lightloss because of the special mirror, and even if not, contrast-loss because of the diffusing light between the lcd and the lense (you have the same problem with a normal mirror too);
after i had tried the solution without a mirror i won't go back to the mirror solution and take the disadvantage of more length; as long as the picture is better...
but i like your design very much; it looks really cool and professional; i am looking forward to your final version
best regards slize |
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| slize |
my bulb cost 75$ regular price(here in Europe it is about 75€) also had a special price of 45$, but on ebay i'll get it for 25$ new shipping and handling included. Til yet i don't have experiences with the bulb life (used for 50 hours since i've finished my projector) but Osram says approx. 2000h with a usage of 3 hours a day...
it is used originally for aquariums so it has to last at least one year... but with that price on ebay i don't care... |
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| ace3000_1 |
thanks for the pics slize i see how it works now, not bad at all and u are spot on about the mirrors, i lost about 1/3 of light when i used mine but i got not choice as my lcd wont go backwards lol so the mirror it is, yess i could have turned the lcd around the other way but then things start to become big so anyway i ended up with my box of tricks, im thinking in a new design for a screen, maybe sand blasted perspex as it will absorb and reflect the light and light up in the sand blasted area, the sandblastered area would go to the back and the non sandblastered area to the front with some kind of white backing atached to the back that is a flat white, i think it could work like a silver screen maybe even better
Trev |
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| ace3000_1 |
also with the screen idea cos when u sandblast it pits, if u get it blastered very finely and with the pits, u will get a flat coloured screen with a nice pro finnished front and with the pits that absorb and reflect light im nearly 100% sure u would get a very wide angle of view
Trev |
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| usa_satriani |
Hi all !
I've read a few things here and I'd like to know if I could find a comparative test of a computer LCD (15') and a Sharp-like LCD :
-Sharp are great because you don't need to dismount them
-but getting a good resolution and contrast is hard and expensive :(
-Sharp are smaller so they suit every fresnel ( I ordered a 12*12 one at DIYlab)
What would you advice?
I will have a 12*12' fresnel, a 80mm lens (f=327mm) and a 250W MH. |
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| bitbyter |
| So where did you bet a 92 mm projection lens?? Also do you (or anyone else) know if it would be usable with a 10.4" lcd?? |
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| bitbyter |
| Also where did you get a 6" fresnel for your lcd? Or did you cut down a regular one. Based on your design I have figured out how I want to set up my next attempt. What does everyone think?? |
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| ace3000_1 |
howdy bitbyter, gladf u like my design, ill be posting more pics of it tonight maybee as im nearly done with it, the frensel i use is a page magnifyer its a little over 6" in size so it was perfect for my lcd, i have placed it between 2 peices of perspex cos heat will worp the frensel on its own asd it is only thin, ok the lens is just a 90mm magnifying glass modified with handle cut off and filed to shape.
In your design may i sugest a couple of things, firstly u dont need the fan power suply if u use a 110v or mains powered fan, secondly the mirror 1 could melt that fan power supply if it was a cold mirror so i think dont not use a fan power suplly and just use a 80mm or 120mm mains powered fan, ok the next thing i would do is put the balast behind the mirror 2 as it is cooler there and the ballast is not getting heat from the light, and lastly the mirror 1 and light unit i would put on the oposite side of the box in the order u have it so that the light is more of a strait pass through.
one other thing u could do is the gap between the lcd and frensels make a air intake so u get a cool flow of air running through the gaps and going over the light last with the hot air out in the end. Make a air filter to eliminate dust with panty hose |
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| bitbyter |
So here is the re-dedigned version. It would most likely be an easier build without the second mirror.
BTW: Does anyone know if you can get front-sruface mirrors from a regular mirror/glass supply place? Also, what types of lenses have people been using as condensors after their light setup. I personally us an aspheric condenser lens but I have seen people use other types. What are the differences/advantages of the different lens types? |
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| bitbyter |
| I guess uploading the image would help....:cannotbe: |
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| ace3000_1 |
spot on bitbyter that should work great, where the ballast is i would make a small vent to the left of it in the pic so it can get that cool air from the air gap inbetween the frensels and get sucked out by the exhust fan on the side, as a general rule with fans what goes in must come out the same, so if u go with 2 fans for intake, use 2 fans for extake that way u will have the most efeciency u can get rather than the intake fans fighting the extake to get the air through.
using the one mirror option is the best, u dont want 2 use 2 of them as these things chew light buy the 100"s of lumens lol so i would just go with the one, the light unit u are making is what i was going to draw up for u in the next day as its the same i will do with mine asoon as i get a mh bulb, other than that your projector should work great but u might want to also place some glass inbetween the first frensel and the light to hold back extra heat to the frensel, with a 80mm fan u should have more than enough room to get the air going through the glass, 1st frensel, 2nd frensel and lcd.
Trev |
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| usa_satriani |
Hi.
I'd like to know which panel is darker and needs more Lumens :
a Sharp-like or a 15' TFT from computer (I should get a Samsung 151s)
Really thx for your help ;)
PS : I will use a 250W HQI Osram for a 90 inches diagonal screen. |
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| faustian bargin |
just a question from an uninformed outsider: what is the reason for using a mirror in the first place? why can't you just beam straight in from behind the lens? is there a space issue with the footprint or something?
sorry if i missed something earlier...i just saw the latest page and didn't bother to read the previous 91. :rolleyes:
/andrew |
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| Property |
| There are space issues with footprint, focal length of various lenses, heat dissipation, etc... Including a mirror allows you to "fold" the light into a more compact footprint, and still satisfy focal lengths etc.. |
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| faustian bargin |
| quote: | Originally posted by Property
There are space issues with footprint, focal length of various lenses, heat dissipation, etc... Including a mirror allows you to "fold" the light into a more compact footprint, and still satisfy focal lengths etc.. |
well...i don't know much about focal length and heat dissipation, but the footprint won't change much if at all, if you simply relocate the projection lens to the right end of the box instead of the bottom. the beam path length stays the same, and you get rid of that mirror in the path. maybe there are other issues involved...?
just trying to help...
/andrew |
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| bitbyter |
| Got it in one. The reason for using a mirror is a) to make the build smaller and to b) make a unit stand vertically. As acc3000_1 states however; every mirror you add cuts down on you brightness. It also makes the build more difficult as aligning the mirror is not the easiest task to accomplish. |
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| Property |
For instance say you have a fresnel with a 14" focal length. Well then you want to put your "point light source" at the focal point of your fresnel, so that's 2 feet of distance!
Stick in a mirror and then you can "fold" the light into a 1 foot x 1 foot box instead of having a 2 foot long box...it's just space saving. You'll want to use front-surface mirrors ideally though.
You can also see how you could take this idea and fold the light even further. For instance with 2 mirrors you could make a .66 foot box..etc...But the more mirrors you have, the more light output you'll lose at the mirrors so it's a trade-off. |
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| faustian bargin |
property: yes, your drawing makes sense. i guess i was misreading bitbyter's diagram as a scale drawing. i hope you can see the difference between the two, and how i came to my conclusion.
in this case, i guess i would have to agree the mirror is a desirable solution.
/andrew |
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| ace3000_1 |
the main reason im using a mirror is to make my projector more compact and to make the screen the right way around, my screen has a upside down feature but not reversed horizontal so i use my mirror to get the projected image the right way around, also u can shorten focal lengths to a degree and that depends on the thickness of the mirror, this however wont work with surface mirrors as they shine from the front not the back and therfore also using less light as the light doesnt need to go through a frontal peice of glass 2 times.
Trev |
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| ace3000_1 |
bitbyter this is what im going to do as soon as i get my mini mh bulb
Trev |
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| ace3000_1 |
hey guys i know this is abit off topic but if u realy want to put your projector to the test and realy want to show it off to your mates with great media and scare the **** out of yourself then go and buy the imax thrill ride dvd i can garentee u will not be disapointed, i got a copy from the net in divx format and um yeah scared the **** out of me lol also it has great info on filmaking, slides and digital graphics ect. Definatly a must!
Trev |
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| ace3000_1 |
heya there zardoz i went to that thread and i just posted a reply to it but it doesnt come back up on my screen saying i made the last post lol i dont know whats going on so ill reply to u in here just incase it doesnt work in the other, im realy sorry i didnt see your post as i was away from here for about 2weeks a week ago and maybe i missed it then, im not sure but i would be glad to help u out buddy and if u have msn messenger i would like to talk to u in that as we wont be filling up the forum with our conversation and its faster. The idea u have is very doable and would probally take u about an hour or so to do, all u need to do is solder a couple of wires with a relay that way u need no flip flop circut to make and the relay can handle higher currents and its only cheap. The realays in my projector in the design u saw i posted earlier is what powers my system and with the life span of 10million clicks u cant go wrong lol and mine works faultless not bad for $5 i could have done it for $2 as i bought 1 too manny relays lol anyway enough out of me.
trev |
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| ace3000_1 |
ok another one of my bright ideas here, ive been playing with my light in my diy projector and i have come to a couple of conclutions and mod's. Im just using my test light until i get a mini mh bulb that puts out 14000lm's and the test light as it stands now uses a 150w halogena lamp that puts out 2550lm's, there are 2 type's one is clear type and the other is frosted. First thing never use frosted as it will give u a fuzzy image as manny of u know with the loa's and secondly u can get high performance gain out of the clear type but run slightly warmer.In the pic u will see my test light, the brightness of the projected image im getting is about just a bit lower than a standard tv, now when i place a small magnifying glass infront of the light's burning arc wow u have just intensifed the light like 2 double the brightness, now my projected image is brighter than a standard tv about double of what it was before the mod. I know manny of u are using condenser lenses and they do basically the same thing, they control the beam and intensify the light, but if u use a small magnifying glass u are magnifying the light and controling the beam, in the pic it shows what i did and how i did it, just imagine putting a small mag glass infront of a condenser lens, any thoughts? i bet u would get a masive gain, i dont have a condenser as of yet but as soon as i get one ill try it for u guys.
Trev |
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| ace3000_1 |
this is the second pic, sorry for the quality of the pics as its hard to take picks with a flash and not with a flash as the light is too dark with out flash and too bright with it. the white u see is from abit of some super glue ill get that off later, as i said just a test light the new one will be the same but cleaned up spotless, also i am using a half circle reflector, the best to use for this is a parabolic that i plan to get in the near future then all ill need is my mini mh! yeah lol
Trev |
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| ace3000_1 |
ok the final pic i painted the perspex cover flat black except where the lens is so only the light can come from the lens, i painted the inside of the cover black so that any light reflected from the lcd shines and relects back off of the perspex back into the lcd that way reusing the un used light, another thing im going to do is paint the inside of the light unit flat black and just have the parobolic reflector silver to stop stray rays from giving me light leaks out of the fan holes in the ends of the unit, it may not stop all but it will cut it down and uv to components and beleive it or not ir rays, black absorbs ir! thats why it gets hot!
I recomend trying experiments for yourself science is not always right and u can never see the diff unless u do it practical, so give this a go and lets see what u come up with
Trev |
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| bitbyter |
| Hey Ace, let us know when you get your condenser lens. I'd love to see a comparision between the two as well as results when you use both. I've always used a condeser in my setup and I've never been able to believe peoples posted results if they don't use one. When I was testing my first design, the results without a condenser were just terrible. |
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| ace3000_1 |
yeah i know what u mean and not to forget the light loss lol i think its a great idea what u said about condenser vs mag lens it will be interesting resaults, what id like to know is can we make that light brighter or more intense before the condenser to make our image brighter giving our light a whole lot more of effiency, i believe we can do it and i have proved in a way that u can make the light upto twice the brightness with a 6inch lcd, it works full no probs.
Trev |
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| N_O_A_H |
Does anyone know how much light a fresnel lens will take away from a light source? I know that the fresnel lens will help direct and converge the light in to a single beam. But if the light source isnt that great, like from an LED, how will it affect it?
I had the crazy idea of using a RGBW setup. I know you all say it will take hundreds of LEDs.. I know LEDs are expensive but I dont want to have to deal with heat or loud fans. Cost isnt my concern at the moment, I didnt run out and buy a bunch of LEDs. I just want to discuss the therory right now.
If I were to to make 4 arrays of LEDs, lets say 100 LEDs each: R,G,B, and White, would individual fresnal lenses on each array help even out the spotty brightness before converging the lights into one? Or is this unnessary and redundant? |
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| Property |
| There is a WEALTH of information about LED design in this forum....In fact this forum was started around LED's....Do a search on "LED" and you should find alot of good ideas and problems associated with LEDs. |
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| ace3000_1 |
well this is my finnished projector, what does every one think? sorry for not posting projected resalts as i havnt had the time but it would have to put out 300lm's as i can still watch it with a 100w bulb in the room going although washed out wich is normal but i can still see the pic no worries.
Trev |
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| ace3000_1 |
| sorry forgot the pic lol |
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| Property |
| Holy **** that sure is pretty! You could probably sell it on ebay for a tidy profit. |
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| ace3000_1 |
| lol im thinking in it what price u recon i could get for it? |
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| Property |
| How much did you shell out for it altogether? I'm thinking you could get more than $150....maybe....it sure is pretty, but i think you have a low res lcd in it right? |
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| ace3000_1 |
| i forked out about 260 i recon i coukld sell it for 500 and i got told by another 1000 so if i put it on ebay we will see lol u know how auctions go the price jumps up with biders |
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| ace3000_1 |
| the reso is good, most people say that 960x240 is ****, maybe for hdtv but its good for dvd and tv, atleast obn mine anyway, its about the same as a big screen tv at 100" |
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