| tubesguy |
Hi folks -
Does anyone have experience with using the Visaton B200 on an open baffle, either by itself, full-range, with or without EQ, or crossed over to a dipole sub?
I've gotten all fired up about dipoles, thanks to all the posts here, and I've done a lot of searching, and, of course, have studiously gone throught the Linkwitz website.
I'd like something relatively simple to start experimenting with, and a good, fairly high Qts speaker like the B200 seems like a likely starting point. The highs don't need to be extended, at least on the first go-round.
I also have one Peerless 12" XLS driver, and might buy another to do an H-frame sub to complete the system.
Active EQ and mutiple amps are a likelihood, probably a DCX2496 plumbed into a Panasonic digital receiver.
Any help or suggestions would be much appreciated. Thanks - Pat |
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| tubesguy |
Thanks jens -
I like the idea of the no box Visaton, but the North American distributor doesn't sell the woofer, or the kit, so that isn't going to work well for me. If I could find a more available 15" speaker to replace the Visaton woofer, it would be a very nice starting point. Thanks again - Pat |
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| DataDay |
Hi,
Visaton is currently working on a project (called Quadro) using 4 B200 speakers on each side. It is said to have a sensitivity of 96 dB.
Attached you will find a pic of the prototype.
I am aware that this is no boxless speaker but it should be of interest to all those single ended triode users out there, as this speaker is designed to play with small power triodes.
Dataday |
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| tubesguy |
| Appreciate the responses, guys, but high efficiency is not one of the requirements. I quit messing around with tubes after I realized how good the digital receivers were, and how inexpensive an all-digital, 6 channel amp could be. Thanks for the links, and the suggestions. - Pat |
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| planet10 |
I used B200s in open baffles for some time. No EQ. I really liked these. Maybe if i procrastinate long enuff i an figure out how to pay for them before i have to give them back.
dave |
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| tubesguy |
| quote: | Originally posted by planet10
I used B200s in open baffles for some time. No EQ. I really liked these. Maybe if i procrastinate long enuff i an figure out how to pay for them before i have to give them back.
dave |
If not, maybe I can intervene and buy them through you. You know how I like to shop at the planet 10 store. :) - Pat |
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| planet10 |
| quote: | Originally posted by tubesguy
If not, maybe I can intervene and buy them through you. You know how I like to shop at the planet 10 store. :) |
Pat,
The fellow who lent them to me would love to see them sold. The asking price is essentially Canadian dealer cost plus post. eMail me if interested.
They are a lovely speaker, no question. Fairly efficient too.
dave |
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| tubesguy |
Hey Dave -
You've got mail. Thanks - Pat |
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| tubesguy |
| Thanks for the help, guys. It looks like this is a project that's going to happen. I've got the B200s coming from Dave, and may try to do a "NoBox clone" using the woofer suggested by Thorsten, or perhaps some other woofer or woofers. Maybe a pair of 10" in push-pull? - Pat |
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| jb-arch |
| How is your B200 project going?? thinking of using it as well...what are your impressions? |
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| planet10 |
Hey Pat,
I unburied the Visatons today... i'll get shipping info shortly :^)
(and may get to move back home as soon as Thursday)
dave |
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| tubesguy |
Hi Dave -
No problem. There's no real rush at this point. I've got some Maggie MMG-Ws on the way, so these will probably sit in the closet for a while, anyway. Thanks - pat |
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| teigetje |
Hello Tubesguy Pat,
Ever thought off an Eminence 15" Woofer (Delta 15 LF)? Fairly priced and will do in an Open Baffle configuration. When you filter the B200 at +/- 200 Hz, the Visaton will match & sound even better with the woofer. I'm working on a same kind of project as you are. (B.T.W. the Visaton woofer is the BGS 40)
Greetz,
Teigetje |
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| Bas Horneman |
Hallo Teigetje,
I have the Bastani Prometheus for evaluation at home (also open baffle and modified eminence 12"). Send me an email if your are interested in a listen.
Regards,
Knorretje |
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| tubesguy |
Hello Teigetje -
Thanks for directing me to the Eminence woofer. I had been looking for something similar to the BGS40 that Visaton uses in the nobox speaker. The crossover in that speaker is at 250hz, and the BGS40 looks remarkably smooth in its rolloff below the crossover point. It's expensive, though, and not imported by the North American distributor.
I may give the Eminence a try, especially at $83/each.
Thanks - Pat |
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| tubesguy |
Thanks Scott -
Looks like I've dramatically overpaid for the Eminence woofs. ;) At their price, however, I can get the Knights and try both.
Have you used either of the drivers that you suggested? I'd be interested in hearing of your experience.
The five driver Bessel array may be a little more than I had intended for a first go-round, but if the Visatons are really as good as their reputation, they might form the basis for something approaching the ultimate (for right now) system. Now that I think of it, however, this is going to be a dipole project. Bessel arrays front and back?
Thanks for the suggestions - pat |
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| ScottG |
I haven't used either drivers but the specs are right for the Knights and the graphs are right for the Daytons.
The problem with the Eminence woofs are that the qts isn't high enough nor is the eff. to match the B200's. The meathod around this is the same as Visaton used - i.e. reducing the output level of the B200. Don't dispair though, you could use the Knights as suggested and then use the Eminences as a dipole subwoofer by mass loading the driver (silicone caulk with lead shot on the dust cap) to lower fs and then using an eq. plate amp to boost the level.
Dipole dispersion higher in freq. level is counter productive and causes more audible room influnace to the sound than anything but monopole freq.s below 400 Hz. This is something that shouldn't be much of a problem with the B200's but would be with rear out-of-phase tweets. Now you could go the bi-pole route for an omni directional response but in truth the whole point of the bessel array is to give excellent dispersion off-axis higher in freq. (i.e. I wouldn't recomend it).
In particular the the B200's do appear to suffer from a less extended freq. response (based on a look at the CSD plot on their website). Note though that Planet 10 has said the freq. response was fairly extended (I attribute this though to the better off-axis response higher in freq. 10kHz).. Additionally, the off-axis response around 2kHz is rather poor. Note that Planet 10 has mentioned that it has a "narrow sweet spot". The Dayton tweets have a rising response around this region, what this means is that this tweeter (especially in a horizontal bessel array) will help "fill-in" the response even though the crossover is a rather high (11 kHz) first-order.
As far as the bessel array is concerned, its only a matter of purchasing the drivers and wiring them correctly. The cost isn't high, and the wiring is no more difficult than hooking up a stereo receiver. (Do a google search for more info on the wiring.)
Your welcome! |
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| JasonL |
| quote: | Originally posted by planet10
Hey Pat,
I unburied the Visatons today... i'll get shipping info shortly :^)
(and may get to move back home as soon as Thursday)
dave |
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
That's Funny.. |
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| johninCR |
ScottG,
Have you tried tweeters in a Bessel array that you are recommending? I played around with Bessel arrays but found that imaging disappeared. I believe this is the result of having the out of phase driver. I only think it would be worthwhile for use in a center channel to take advantage of the increased sensitivity over a single driver. Also, why a horizontal array instead of vertical since dispersion is the same with a bessel? |
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| ScottG |
I haven't tried the daytons, but I have tried some audax poly films 3/4 in a 5 driver vertical and horizontal array at various freq.s. (and normal arrays for that matter.)
I've never used them below 5kHz (1st order electrical - 2nd order) in a bessel array and perhaps as such I've never had imaging problems. Certainly at 11kHz it won't be a problem. The dispersion isn't exactly the same (though close enough), the real reason for the suggestion is simply that it will sum to about the same width as the B200, (i.e. its easier to intigrate on a baffle). The increase in sensetivity is typically only 1.5-2 db (not much but usable), but the power handling increases and the distrotion levels decrease thus allowing higher spls for a given high pass point.
In truth the design as I presented really isn't a tweeter array, instead its more of an ambiance filler - more akin to the upward rear-firing tweeters in the wilson max while also providing off-axis fill near 2kHz. This doesn't mean that the speaker should be listened to off-axis (or you may well experience imaging problems), just that when listening on-axis the spectral balance will be more uniform. |
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| johninCR |
Scott,
Very interesting. I didn't realise how small those tweeters are. The wide rangers I used to play around with the bessel went up to 10khz, then I had a single super tweeter take over. I used the 7 unit alignment with the tweeter in the center null position. It worked like it's supposed to dispersion wise, but imaging was gone. A very interesting effect though with just a big wall of sound coming from between the speakers and nothing really localized to form an image. I had a much larger sound stage than with just a pair of speakers run in mono. I do want to try it again in the proper application, like maybe for a bar where a big wall of sound would be good. |
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| bebou |
Hello, I benefit from the discussion to ask whether one among you listened to the b200 with a 300B SE amp.
Thank you well, desole for my English. |
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