| 95Honda |
| Thought I would throw this in for you gys to check out. Here is an enclosure I'm building for a 99' Durango. 25 cubic feet ported @32Hz/200in2 vent, 6 Adire Tempest 15's and I'll be feeding it about 2kwrms....... I'll have it done this weekend.... I think I'll be looking at somewhere in the neighborhood of 150-152db..... |
|
|
| DilutedImage |
| Looks like it could turn out pretty nice . .. Please post a pic of the final project, and let us know how it performs .. . Keep up the good work .. :up: |
|
|
| Stocker |
uh...
um...
seems like an awful low number for so much speaker...
but then, the power is a little low as well...
Still, plenty loud enough to hurt you. :dead: |
|
|
| Chupa |
| i hope its gona be a show car and not rec driving :xeye: |
|
|
| theAnonymous1 |
According to my math and experience (which in my opinion is just as good or better than the math) you will hit around 147db, 148 if your lucky. If you want to go higher you will need considerably more power, even with the relatively high efficiency of the subs.
Your enclosure design isn't really ideal for SQ or SPL IMHO. Its kinda sitting in the middle and will never come close to achieving either. The 4.16cu.ft your giving each sub is WAY to small for the tempest in either application. Because of the large enclosure required by the tempest its not very well suited for car audio use.
If I had your setup I would shoot for SQ because the SPL results with only 2000 watts is not that impressive for 6 15s.
Here is my suggestion for an "SQ" ported box (its gonna be HUGE, but the tempest wasn't designed for the limited space of a vehicle.........
Box size: 45-50cu.ft, Fb: 18-20hz. You can go with the 200sq.in of port if you want, which would be around 19.5" with a 50cu.ft box tuned to 18hz. With 2000 watts it will yield a peek vent air velocity of about 14m/s @ 14hz. |
|
|
| 95Honda |
hmmm, math and experience.... OK, here is a box I built last month in a 72 Chevelle with 6 sealed Tempests with 2ft each, and about 2000 wrms (two of the original Rockford power 1000 mosfets amps) Bangs 149 all day long at 50Hz...... Sealed.....
at the headrest....... No BS..... A buddy of mine has 4 Tempest and 1000 watts in a S10 pickup with a similar box alingment and hit 150.6 legal on a termpro in Tennesse.....
Remember you can plug stuff into the computer all day long, but actually doing it is something completely different.....
This stuff is fun though, isn't it?;) |
|
|
| 95Honda |
| Oh yeah, daily driver.......... |
|
|
| 95Honda |
| Here is the box installed in the truck. I just got done putting 2 coats of epoxy resin inside the entire enclosure to seal any small leaks, stiffen up walls, and dampen a bit. Tonight I will spray another coat of paint inside the port, fill the screw holes, and carpet the front.... It barely fit in the truck! It went in in two pieces which were then Gorilla glued and reinforced with an additional 3/4" layer of MDF on the inside.... |
|
|
| theAnonymous1 |
| quote: | | A buddy of mine has 4 Tempest and 1000 watts in a S10 pickup with a similar box alingment and hit 150.6 legal on a termpro in Tennesse..... |
I use the new termpro "sensor mics"on a daily basis and find that statement EXTREMELY hard to believe. I'm not calling you a liar, but thats not even possible with 1000 watts.
I have a friend who owns a walled off caravan with 4 Atomic SPL subs and 2 4000watt rms Visonik amps, and he does a "legal" 152.5db.
Now, if I do more of that math stuff, thats only 1.9db louder than your friend. Since they are both using 4 15s(efficiencies aside) that would mean with the "magic" of your Friends setup he would only need a little less than 700 watts more to do 152.5db.
If that were true, that would mean my friend is "wasting" nearly 6300 watts of power on speaker inefficiencies,cabin losses, etc. . I don't think so. |
|
|
| 95Honda |
| OOps, I was off by 1/2 a db, I must be a liar!!!!!!:) |
|
|
| black00 |
| quote: | Originally posted by theAnonymous1
According to my math and experience (which in my opinion is just as good or better than the math) you will hit around 147db, 148 if your lucky. If you want to go higher you will need considerably more power, even with the relatively high efficiency of the subs. |
Hi... Wonder how you guessed spl....neat trick... that program know if its in a wall with 1.5 inch thick wood or triple reinforced baffle with allthread through it and wave slants in the corners with resin all in it to make it hard as a coffin in an S10 thats sound deadened or in a van thats not sound deadend with 8 inch front baffle and sand in between the back wall and the last wall???
Or does it just do Anachoic?
_____________________| quote: | Originally posted by theAnonymous1
Your enclosure design isn't really ideal for SQ or SPL IMHO. Its kinda sitting in the middle and will never come close to achieving either. The 4.16cu.ft your giving each sub is WAY to small for the tempest in either application. Because of the large enclosure required by the tempest its not very well suited for car audio use.
|
Who told you that LOL....
________________________| quote: | Originally posted by theAnonymous1
If I had your setup I would shoot for SQ because the SPL results with only 2000 watts is not that impressive for 6 15s.
Here is my suggestion for an "SQ" ported box (its gonna be HUGE, but the tempest wasn't designed for the limited space of a vehicle.........
Box size: 45-50cu.ft, Fb: 18-20hz. You can go with the 200sq.in of port if you want, which would be around 19.5" with a 50cu.ft box tuned to 18hz. With 2000 watts it will yield a peek vent air velocity of about 14m/s @ 14hz. |
Lemme guess........WinISD told ya that huh? :D
________________________
| quote: | Originally posted by theAnonymous1
I use the new termpro "sensor mics"on a daily basis and find that statement EXTREMELY hard to believe. I'm not calling you a liar, but thats not even possible with 1000 watts.
|
I compete in MECA...we use TERMLAB SENSOR as well....
And I assure you..... 1000w can get you 150+db with no problem ...The top guns really duke it out...in Meca is all about efficiency ;) http://www.mecacaraudio.com/eventresults.php?eventid=1
There is 152.3
I use 4 Tempest and MAX power of 1000w no more...
At the head rest the truck and bust well over 150.6...yes ...I said headrest... the mic is put there to measure what the driver's head feels....
| quote: | Originally posted by theAnonymous1
I have a friend who owns a walled off caravan with 4 Atomic SPL subs and 2 4000watt rms Visonik amps, and he does a "legal" 152.5db.
Now, if I do more of that math stuff, thats only 1.9db louder than your friend. Since they are both using 4 15s(efficiencies aside) that would mean with the "magic" of your Friends setup he would only need a little less than 700 watts more to do 152.5db. |
Dunno how you came up with that...if you knew SPL like you say you do...... you'd know its not quite that simple...
_________________________________| quote: | Originally posted by theAnonymous1
If that were true, that would mean my friend is "wasting" nearly 6300 watts of power on speaker inefficiencies,cabin losses, etc. . I don't think so. |
He may be...but given that he does drag and his score can go up or down if he opens his door or not..we will never know....
Its not really that important..his application is different as well as his assembly and execution....so its really Irrelivant what your friend does with his gear..
heres the facts.....
1000w....+ 4 Tempest.... about 18 cubes after port displacement.... 200sq inches of port tuned to 33hz....and has enough control to tame the subs to get lost in music and throw the bass up front just like a concert or in a recording studio... :) yes....she has the ability to sound vera vera nice.....
Then throw a few switches and wire a little different at the amp..and I'm Generating over 150db at the Head...... On the TERMLAB ...
No lie.... You can ask Dan Wiggins himself.... He was there and saw it...along with 50 other people....
http://www.adireaudio.com/TextPages...geFrameText.htm
I'm not flaming.....nice to meet you as a matter of fact.... but just because you never seen it or heard of it...don't make it false ...
:smash: |
|
|
| 95Honda |
| Fired it up last night. The wall isn't connected to the sides of the truck to seal off the back yet, and the woofers were just stuck in to test everything with 4 small screws each. Tuning was right on at 32 Hz. I had to rewire the subs because the .6 ohm load would shut the sub amp down ocasionaly when I really let them eat. I re-wired for 2.6 ohms series parrallel, now only about 1400 watts, it was a little lower in ouput level, but not much. I think we will get another sub amp and throw 3.5-4KW at them if we can. Sound? LOUD AS HELL!!!! Ridiculous, the dome light ripped off the headliner (broke into pieces) The dash is coming apart, the roof heaves in and out about an inch, and the doors all buckle. I'll bet she's doing at least 145ish right now (no mic yet, just gut feeling, we mic'd it with the old box at 140db and this is much louder), and when we get the wall sealed up, the woofers mounted good, and all the levels tweeked, I'll bet 150 is attainable.... I'll put some pics on soon. It's tough to describe what it feels like sitting in the back in front of the woofers, your clothes blow around like your in a little windstorm... Way Cool! 30Hz is completely unbearable in the damn thing.... |
|
|
| Stocker |
Lower levels will net a nice back massage. :D
You may want to think about a little judicious welding of reinforcement for the body panels... the instruments may not have long lifespans...
...Is this a (very very loud) daily driver? |
|
|
| djQUAN |
| it would be interesting to play the brown note and ask a friend to sit inside. :P |
|
|
| 95Honda |
I actually have a picture of a buddy sitting inside of it with one woofer out wiring it up (I can't fit throught the hole).... I'll post it...
I would really like to reinforce the truck somehow. When we started this project the Truck was like new inside. We hacked out so much stuff (permanently) that it almost makes me wince to do any more damage. I think I will try and find other ways to stiffen everything up in a not so permanent way. We will probably make a bunch of supports off of the box that put pressure against the body panels with stiff foam as a gasket to keep it from buzzing, rattling....
The guy I built this for does use it as a daily driver......:xeye: |
|
|
| 95Honda |
| Box with buddy inside... |
|
|
| djQUAN |
I must admit the box is big. :D
this one's my daily driver. www.djquan.angelcities.com/ride.html
did the install myself. I admit that it's not the best looking but it sure sounds great and goes louder than anyone I know that spent the same amount for equipment. |
|
|
| 95Honda |
| I can't get the whole box in the picture, but here it is walled off to the sides of the truck and sprayed with a textured finish... |
|
|
| djQUAN |
| so that will be the look of te complete box. well, not including the subs..... |
|
|
| 95Honda |
| Yep, no subs, and all the news paper for masking. The wall face almost perfectly follows the contour of the truck sides. I like the way the texture turned out, what do you think? |
|
|
| djQUAN |
| cool! although I'd prefer carpet since it's scratch proof. but the finish looks great. |
|
|
| theAnonymous1 |
| hitting 150-152db yet? BTW, I like the drywall screws. I would have used pan heads or t-nuts, but what the hell do I know. |
|
|
| black00 |
| quote: | Originally posted by theAnonymous1
hitting 150-152db yet? BTW, I like the drywall screws. I would have used pan heads or t-nuts, but what the hell do I know. |
:D which of the screws will be louder? (drywall, panhead or Tnut?) |
|
|
| 95Honda |
| quote: | | hitting 150-152db yet? BTW, I like the drywall screws. I would have used pan heads or t-nuts, but what the hell do I know |
It's your world boss, I'm just building speakers in it....... |
|
|
| theAnonymous1 |
| Hey, use all the drywall screws you want on your own stuff, but you mentioned this setup is for someone else. I would be pretty ****ed if I had 6 new tempests and someone bent the frames because they were to lazy to go to the hardware store and get a more appropriate type of screw. |
|
|
| black00 |
| quote: | Originally posted by theAnonymous1
Hey, use all the drywall screws you want on your own stuff, but you mentioned this setup is for someone else. I would be pretty ****ed if I had 6 new tempests and someone bent the frames because they were to lazy to go to the hardware store and get a more appropriate type of screw. |
:D LOL....you need to find a less stressful hobby my man..
:smash: enough from you... |
|
|
| 95Honda |
Dude, I guess your ****ed for some reason.... Thats cool man, I'm having a good time doing what I like to do.....
It's just a speakerbox.....:)
Take it easy,
Mike |
|
|
| theAnonymous1 |
| Sorry guys, I'm :mad:Bi-Polar:) and its been getting the best of me lately. Really though, nice job on the box (besides the screw thing ;) ). |
|
|
| DanWiggins |
Mike, you don't hit 150+, and I'm CUTTING YOU OFF FROM ALL DRIVERS...:D Looking forward to seeing/experiencing this beast!
Dan Wiggins
Adire Audio |
|
|
| 95Honda |
| quote: | | Mike, you don't hit 150+, and I'm CUTTING YOU OFF FROM ALL DRIVERS... Looking forward to seeing/experiencing this beast! |
Dan-
I don't hit 150db+ then I am buying 6 Brahma 15's.....
I just hope we have enough power! I'm about 500 watts less than I wanted to be at........
-Mike |
|
|
| 95Honda |
| She nailed a 154.5 last night on an Audio Control with 2kw. We are taking it Adire this weekend to put it on the Termpro. I'll also try some more power there and see how much louder she'll get..... Subs seem to be fine with 2KW whoopin' on them for a couple of hours........ |
|
|
| black00 |
Take that thing out of the dash and put it at the head rest aimed forward....
then you'll get a good idea of whats going on.
I shipped Adire a reality jig yesterday for their show so I know for a fact all the measurements will be REALITY scores.
:D make bass! |
|
|
| 95Honda |
That POS probably wouldn't survive one more removal/install (the bass has knocked it out of the dash onto the floor several times when we had the dash torn apart, again all your fault):smash: LOL heh heh heh
I'll wait till Saturday and do it right with your gear.......;) |
|
|
| black00 |
Tomorrow is the big day for you 95honda....
Getting on the Termlab at Adire Audio ....
show anonaonaonamaousesed one if you can blow a 150+....
Anybody care to place a friendly wager on it??????
Who has $20 paypal that says he can't do a 150+at the head rest on the termlab
Or anywhere?
Just curious.......
:smash: I got faith in him....I hope it wangs man.....take digital video of it so you can post it up somewhere.... |
|
|
| black00 |
Here is 95honda's project ...
I took a picture of the mic screen at 152.8...he managed a 152.9 later on but i didn't get that...
Termlab baby.
WELL DONE 95HONDA... ;)
Just for the record...he did 150.2 at the headrest
One of the loudest street machines in Washington with no equal in site... you win :smash: |
|
|
| theAnonymous1 |
| Congratulations............ My only question is why does termlab show a burp of around 51hz if the box was tuned "dead on at 32hz"? |
|
|
| black00 |
doesn't matter .....you just being a ***** now that you got schooled on the enclosure....just take defeat at the level it was given ;) you were wrong...point blank.....
:bawling: "DOH" |
|
|
| DanWiggins |
| quote: | Originally posted by theAnonymous1
Congratulations............ My only question is why does termlab show a burp of around 51hz if the box was tuned "dead on at 32hz"? |
They found that peak output was with a ~50 Hz signal. It's pretty common in dB competitions to play tones above the tuning frequency - not many people burp right at tuning, especially in the street classes. At least that's what I've seen from my limited exposure. I figured this would be common knowledge for someone with a lot of time in SPL competition, and daily use of a Termlab meter...
There was also a Chevelle here that burped a 145+ at 25 Hz. Six Tempests in a sealed box, no less (not ported). Also built by 95Honda. that was just wicked, and the car itself was stunning in its install. Having >145 dB SPL from 25 Hz and up is truly an amazing accomplishment!
Mike, my hat's off to you! You know how to get loud...:D
Dan Wiggins
Adire Audio |
|
|
| theAnonymous1 |
| LOL, make up your mind....... if its an spl box why bother with the 32hz tuning frequency, and if its for sq than having a peek at 51hz isnt ideal. Lemme guess, your one of those guys that believe in the term "SQL", lmao. My original estimate was for the box being played at 32hz or slightly above, not 51hz. |
|
|
| 95Honda |
| quote: | | LOL, make up your mind....... if its an spl box why bother with the 32hz tuning frequency, and if its for sq than having a peek at 51hz isnt ideal. Lemme guess, your one of those guys that believe in the term "SQL", lmao. My original estimate was for the box being played at 32hz or slightly above, not 51hz. |
LOL.... Dude your killing me!
BTW- Post some pictures and scores of some of your stuff one of these days....
It's one thing to talk about it, it's another to stick your neck out on the line with the support (and rep) of repected names in audio and do what you say you will....... and not let people down......
Good luck! |
|
|
| DanWiggins |
| quote: | Originally posted by theAnonymous1
LOL, make up your mind....... if its an spl box why bother with the 32hz tuning frequency, and if its for sq than having a peek at 51hz isnt ideal. Lemme guess, your one of those guys that believe in the term "SQL", lmao. My original estimate was for the box being played at 32hz or slightly above, not 51hz. |
I thought it was common knowledge that a car system more closely resembles a bandpass box, rather than a ported box in an anechoic environment?
In the case of the Durango, they have a 25 cubic foot ported section and a ~40 cubic foot sealed section. The passenger cabin is a significant loading volume, providing considerable acoustic resistance to the drivers, raising the overall peak tuning of the system.
And of course, the higher the SPL, the higher the effective tuning as well, since flexure of panels on the vehicle start to become an issue. The Ql of the system drops, once again affecting the frequency response peak.
And we haven't even talked about sympathetic modes of vehicle panels, which can have a large impact on the system as well...
Surely someone with your extensive experience would understand these points? I shouldn't have to cover the basics with you...
As far as SQL, as a matter of fact I find it a very good descriptive term. Sound Quality and Loudness. A system designed for all-out SPL (such as Scottie Johnson's Bull Pen) just doesn't sound good playing any kind of music. And a system typically designed for extreme sound quality (such as Bob Beatty's BMW) typically doesn't reach extreme SPL levels.
Typically SPL systems are characterized by a higher tuning frequency, and a large midbass (50-90 Hz) peak, with little deep-bass capability. Since most Rap and R&B has the majority of its acoustic output in this range, it's often the goal of the SPL/loud system to accentuate this range.
SQ systems are typically designed to play flat and clean, with no extraneous emphasis on any frequency range. The system should handle organ and R&B equally well, without an abundance of either deep OR upper bass.
An SQL system can be thought of as a cross between the two. Rather than all-out optimization for maximum SPL, the SQL system looks to gain more SPL over a traditional "SQ" setup, while still maintaining good listenability. A street boomer that can play fairly loud but still sounds great at lower and mid-level volumes. Take an SQ system, add a few dB bump in the 40-60 Hz range, and you have your typical SQL system. SPL high enough that most boomers will like it (and enjoy the slightly elevated upper bass range), but still flat enough in response that pure SQ guys won't turn their nose up at it.
Note that I also believe drivers can be designed for car or home use, or for use in both. Many claim a "driver is a driver", but careful selection of the physical parameters of the driver will create a driver that lends itself to better application in a mobile or home environment.
Again, this is because of the radically different nature OF the environments - a small sealed (or not too leaky) chamber, or a much larger (by orders of magnitude) leaky chamber. The response you get from the chamber gain alone is quite different, meaning that you can design a driver to maximize its flat frequency response in a given application.
This is nothing revolutionary, just understanding the application of the driver, and designing the driver with that in mind. Just like Harman engineers do for JBL drivers - design the PA driver with its application in mind...
Dan Wiggins
Adire Audio |
|
|
| black00 |
Class Dismissed !!!!!!
:smash: |
|
|
| theAnonymous1 |
Sorry guys, I'm not trying to be an arshole, but your "SQL" box just doesn't impress me. I don't believe in the term "SQL", its the cons of both designs with no pros.
What would have impressed me is a box twice the size tuned at that 51hz. With your estimated cabin gain of 17-18db @ 51hz you could do 157db easy.
I'm not at all blamming the situation on adires product, I'm a firm backer of their speakers(whether they like it or not ;) ). As a matter of fact my personal SQ setup in my car consists of 4 Shiva's and 2 PR15's. The Shiva's are in a 4cu.ft isobaric PR design. The 2 isobaric pairs allows the box to be half the size needed by 2 Shiva's and lets it handle twice the power.
I drilled a hole in the center of each PR so I could add a bolt going from the inside out so I can take the weight off for spl events.
With all the weight added for SQ the box is tuned to 22hz and sounds amazing. When I'm at a sound off I take all the weight off and burp 2kW @ 43hz and do just over 145db on termlab. The subs could prolly handle a little more power as they still have about 5mm of excursion to work with but I'm not gonna push em that far.
theAnonymous1 <----------------- ANTI-SQL Member since 97'.............ROFL |
|
|
| 95Honda |
Your still killing me..... LOL
:bawling: |
|
|
| black00 |
| quote: | Originally posted by theAnonymous1
Sorry guys, I'm not trying to be an arshole,
|
:D aight....
| quote: | Originally posted by theAnonymous1
What would have impressed me is a box twice the size tuned at that 51hz. With your estimated cabin gain of 17-18db @ 51hz you could do 157db easy. |
Why is that impressive again? Why is easy impressive? And what program told you double the box tuned to 51 would make you a magic 157 with what port area?
| quote: | Originally posted by theAnonymous1
I'm not at all blamming the situation on adires product, I'm a firm backer of their speakers(whether they like it or not ;) ). As a matter of fact my personal SQ setup in my car consists of 4 Shiva's and 2 PR15's. The Shiva's are in a 4cu.ft isobaric PR design. The 2 isobaric pairs allows the box to be half the size needed by 2 Shiva's and lets it handle twice the power.
|
Wow.... yea please...don't blame the product... LOL...
| quote: | Originally posted by theAnonymous1
I drilled a hole in the center of each PR so I could add a bolt going from the inside out so I can take the weight off for spl events.
|
How many grams is it when its loaded
How many grams is it when its unloaded | quote: | Originally posted by theAnonymous1
With all the weight added for SQ the box is tuned to 22hz and sounds amazing. When I'm at a sound off I take all the weight off and burp 2kW @ 43hz and do just over 145db on termlab. The subs could prolly handle a little more power as they still have about 5mm of excursion to work with but I'm not gonna push em that far.
|
Thats alot of power for such a low score.... what are you doing wrong?
What "Sound Off" do you attend...it should be posted on their site...whats the link and your name so we can see?
Got a pic of this iso passive setup ? |
|
|
| DanWiggins |
Problem is, as you increase SPL, you don't gain those "linear" additions that the programs show. Air starts to act nonlinear as you push 150 dB, and the vehicle walls definitely start to act nonlinear at above 140... So you can't assume that just because you get 17 dB of boost at 145-150 dB, you'll have that at 157 dB. In fact, it's often the case that changes that should result in 2-3 dB (like doubling power) rarely gains you more than half a dB, when you're at these levels of pressure...
Dan Wiggins
Adire Audio |
|
|
| theAnonymous1 |
| quote: | | Your still killing me..... LOL |
Good, I'm glad you guys find me so entertaining :) .
| quote: | | And what program told you double the box tuned to 51 would make you a magic 157 with what port area? |
I used 51hz as a reference to the frequency its loudest at now. Port area has nothing to do with how loud a box will be as long as A: its not so large as to affect how the box "sees" it as a port and B: not so small that the mach speed is high.
| quote: | | How many grams is it when its loaded |
1000 grams each
| quote: | | How many grams is it when its unloaded |
300 grams each
| quote: | | Thats a lot of power for such a low score.... what are you doing wrong? |
LOL, I don't know how the competition where you live holds up, but there isn't anyone locally that can hit 145db with 2 12's and any amount of power. Especially with a box thats only 4cu.ft.
My employer, a local car audio and paint shop holds an unaffiliated DB drag event every Wednesday at the local mall. I will not give their name do to the negative response I'm getting from you fellas(expected as it is).
I would love to upload some picks of my setup, but that would require a digital camera that I do not posses. I'll see if I can borrow one and get the picks up as soon as possible.
One last note, I am more than willing to admit that Dan Wiggins is MUCH more knowledgeable than me in this field.
Dan = age 40+? and wise
Me= age 24 and......well.....whatever most 24 year olds are |
|
|
| theAnonymous1 |
| Your current setup with an estimated 17.5db cabin gain. |
|
|
| theAnonymous1 |
My original estimate assuming you were gonna burp at or close to the tuning frequency like 99% of the people who come to our local event do.
I only guestimated an extra .5db at 32hz over 51 because I know cabin gain is extremely non-linear and the fact that its only a little more than half an octive lower. |
|
|
| black00 |
| quote: | Originally posted by theAnonymous1
Good, I'm glad you guys find me so entertaining :) . |
:D
| quote: | Originally posted by theAnonymous1
I used 51hz as a reference to the frequency its loudest at now. Port area has nothing to do with how loud a box will be as long as A: its not so large as to affect how the box "sees" it as a port and B: not so small that the mach speed is high.
|
Port area has nothing to do with how loud a box will be....
Wow.......
:D I've wasted a lot of time...
| quote: | Originally posted by theAnonymous1
LOL, I don't know how the competition where you live holds up, but there isn't anyone locally that can hit 145db with 2 12's and any amount of power. Especially with a box thats only 4cu.ft. |
You'd get killed 151+db at 2200w with 2 12's.
http://incriminatoraudio.com/mm/DSC02298.JPG
| quote: | Originally posted by theAnonymous1
My employer, a local car audio and paint shop holds an unaffiliated DB drag event every Wednesday at the local mall. I will not give their name do to the negative response I'm getting from you fellas(expected as it is).
|
Didn't ask for his name...asked for yours...but
since its a weekly "unaffiliated" event...its not a sanctioned body event which means.....no proof, your name and score won't be posted on any sanctioned body event results , and you probably have no real head to head competition with true core competitors....
| quote: | Originally posted by theAnonymous1
I would love to upload some picks of my setup, but that would require a digital camera that I do not posses. I'll see if I can borrow one and get the picks up as soon as possible.
|
Interesting...sq guys always have pics of their stuff....
| quote: | Originally posted by theAnonymous1
One last note, I am more than willing to admit that Dan Wiggins is MUCH more knowledgeable than me in this field.
|
Ok...you can stop now then...
:smash: |
|
|
| theAnonymous1 |
| quote: | | Interesting...sq guys always have pics of their stuff.... |
I listen to it, I don't stare at it. What, am I supposed to capture the essence of the sound quality in a pic? :rolleyes:
| quote: | | Port area has nothing to do with how loud a box will be....Wow....... I've wasted a lot of time... |
Example, say you have a box with 100sq.in of port and at full power the peek mach speed is 5% or less, than having a larger port will do next to nothing. If you go too large the box doesn't "see" it as a port anymore, it sees it as more box volume or worse, an infinite baffle.
| quote: | | Ok...you can stop now then... |
Ok...I will... ;) |
|
|
| black00 |
| quote: | Originally posted by theAnonymous1
I listen to it, I don't stare at it. What, am I supposed to capture the essence of the sound quality in a pic? :rolleyes: |
:D almost ...ALL sq competitors have a portfolio of their installs...and in MOST sq competition...its required to have such a portfolio. Any real competitor would know such a thing... :smash:
| quote: | Originally posted by theAnonymous1
Example, say you have a box with 100sq.in of port and at full power the peek mach speed is 5% or less, than having a larger port will do next to nothing. If you go too large the box doesn't "see" it as a port anymore, it sees it as more box volume or worse, an infinite baffle.
|
yea...but you said....the size doesn't matter in spl unless its too big or too small...and see.... :D it does matter..... if it can't be too big or too small...what size does it have to be??????? that comes from knowing your craft.....
And playing on bassbox pro isn't gonna tell you that ;) .... you have to tell it how much port area to use....and YOU have to know how much for what kind of application..... which you don't LOL..
| quote: | Originally posted by theAnonymous1
Ok...I will... ;) |
:D good...cause everybody is laughing at you. |
|
|
| SpongeBob |
| quote: |
One last note, I am more than willing to admit that Dan Wiggins is MUCH more knowledgeable than me in this field.
Dan = age 40+? and wise
Me= age 24 and......well.....whatever most 24 year olds are [/B] |
I didnt Know Dan was over 40, he looks much younger. |
|
|
| 95Honda |
Hey theAnonymous1-
I drilled some "reverse aperiodic" dampening holes in my Tempest cones and gained another 10db.
You should try it! It's cutting edge stuff.......
:) |
|
|
| SpongeBob |
| quote: | Originally posted by 95Honda
Hey theAnonymous1-
I drilled some "reverse aperiodic" dampening holes in my Tempest cones and gained another 10db.
You should try it! It's cutting edge stuff.......
:) |
Hey thats what that is called, "reverse aperiodic" I heard of that too, and I will be doing that to my subs as well. I think it is critical to have alternating large and small holes, and distance apart depends on hole sizes and cone size.
I cant wait, 10db oh boy |
|
|
| theAnonymous1 |
| I think the drill slipped and those holes ended up in your head honda boy. |
|
|
| SupraGuy |
| quote: | Originally posted by DanWiggins
I thought it was common knowledge that a car system more closely resembles a bandpass box, rather than a ported box in an anechoic environment?
In the case of the Durango, they have a 25 cubic foot ported section and a ~40 cubic foot sealed section. The passenger cabin is a significant loading volume, providing considerable acoustic resistance to the drivers, raising the overall peak tuning of the system.
And of course, the higher the SPL, the higher the effective tuning as well, since flexure of panels on the vehicle start to become an issue. The Ql of the system drops, once again affecting the frequency response peak. |
To say "Well said" is understatement, but I'll say it anyway. :)
Aside from the current urinating contest, I've learned never to trust box software. Even excellent software does not properly take into account the specific effects of a vehicle. They make for good guidelines, but if it was that easy, then people would just bring their laptops to an SPL competition, and run simulations, instead of actually MEASURING anything, and taking the chance of blowing an expensive woofer. Maybe pound a little bass out for the crowds...
Personally, I'm not a dB guy. My car puts out a paltry 130 dB, (The highest I've ever recorded was 132 with current equipment.) That's running from a pair of 10" subs powered by 130W or so. I'm running less than 300W total system power.
My first sub box was built using WinISD, and it sucked. Too little low bass, and way too much at about 60Hz or so, then a huge gap at the 100Hz mark where it was supposed to roll off to the mids. I broke that box up for scrap. The next attempt, I put in a temporary simple sealed box, with a simple predictable anechoic response, then put it in the back of the car, and MEASURED it. From this, I got an idea of what the cabin gain curve looked like at the kinds of power levels that I was dealing with. Back to the drawing board, using that curve as a starting point, and I ended up building boxes that everything said was too small. They sound excellent. I also made other changes, but when crossed over at 80Hz, they're quite smooth down to 25 Hz, with a -4dB at 20Hz and a slight (2dB) peak at 31.5Hz. I more typically run them crossed over at 50Hz, with a midbass driver going from 50 to 200Hz, but since I sold off my midbass units this spring, that's currently not the setup.
In any case, I guess that my point is: "In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice, but in practice, there is." |
|
|
| 95Honda |
| quote: | | I think the drill slipped and those holes ended up in your head honda boy. |
Does that mean you aren't going to try it? |
|
|
| 95Honda |
Ah, I gotta quit this, it's just to darn easy to fire up the theAnonymous1......
See you guys with my next project!
Thanks for all the feedback!, really.........
I'm out........:) |
|
|
|
