| Ric_LV |
| Why is DIY better than factory-made? Offcourse I mean good-made DIYs. Is is because it's hand crafted? Don't say it's because of building costs. A good pair of loudspeakers cost around 1200$ (Monitor Audio, for ex), but same quality (maybe even better) DIY loudspeakers only 800$. |
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| Morbid |
i dont know if DIY is better but its fun to create things of your own...
when i made my amp project (instead of old amp for guitar) the sound was great vs. the old amp...
and the price was almost nothing (things i've scratched from broken amp and such) |
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| Dominique |
Well, certainly you could get most things of great quality made by some manufacturer, but often they're pretty high priced.
So I think, the advantage is rather the quality to price ratio!
A big advantage is that you can adapt what you build to your needs!
E.g. I couldn't buy my portable tiny mic preamp anywhere and it's even well adapted to the mics I use.
Cheers
Dominique
PS. You didn't ask for it, but for me, the other advantages about diy is of course the fun to build it :), the learning effect and the familiarness with your... err... object so you're likely able to repair it yourself once necessary. |
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| gmarsh |
Buying something, plugging it in and turning it on is boring.
Buying parts, trying to put them together, messing it up, cursing, leaving it alone for a week, trying again, buying even more parts to replace the parts you broke, finishing it, plugging it in, watching it blow up in your face, cursing some more, rebuilding it, finding a stupid mistake, plugging it in and hearing it work... well. Lets just say it makes you feel more passionate about your equipment ;) |
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| SY |
Depends on what you mean by "better."
In one sense, it's better because it's not just a piece of audio gear, it's an education.
In a different sense, it is (or can be) more customized to your specific requirements. You don't have to compromise to make a product work in a wide range of environments for a large number of users- your niche demographic is a party of one. |
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| Jay |
| quote: | Originally posted by Ric_LV
Why is DIY better than factory-made? Offcourse I mean good-made DIYs. Is is because it's hand crafted? Don't say it's because of building costs. A good pair of loudspeakers cost around 1200$ (Monitor Audio, for ex), but same quality (maybe even better) DIY loudspeakers only 800$. |
Well, of course it is because of the building cost :) And I think you have to compare the good-made DIY versus the good-made commercials.
If you have never designed a speaker, with $1200 you can never be able to beat any good-made commercial speakers from the $800 price range.
If you are an experienced builder, I'll bet you have wasted $$$$ just to earn the expertise to beat $800 commercial speaker with $800 DIY. And that's because you don't have to pay employee salary. And you don't even remember to include your production related costs in your DIY price! :D |
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| Upupa Epops |
| Correct developing cost offten many money and if you have not this, is it all about coincidences and mainly about psychology ;) . |
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| Circlotron |
| Not only do you have (at least) the performance of most factory stuff, you can also make it just the way you want it. E.G. if you like the idea of 50mm thick wood for your new bookshelf speakers or 1 Farad filter caps for your GainClone then that is what you shall have. You are not bound by the superior "wisdom" :rolleyes: of marketing people and acounting departments. |
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| markp |
| It is better because it is yours, truely yours. What is better than saying 'I made this'? It is the joy of learning and creating that can not be had mearly by buying a finished product. Like the commercial says "priceless". |
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| Upupa Epops |
| Everybody love own child ;) , but it not signify, that my child is " more inteligent " than neighbour's one :D . |
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| djQUAN |
| quote: | Buying something, plugging it in and turning it on is boring.
Buying parts, trying to put them together, messing it up, cursing, leaving it alone for a week, trying again, buying even more parts to replace the parts you broke, finishing it, plugging it in, watching it blow up in your face, cursing some more, rebuilding it, finding a stupid mistake, plugging it in and hearing it work... well. Lets just say it makes you feel more passionate about your equipment |
I agree. :)
and as circlotron said, you're not bound by price. if you have the money, you can do whatever you want. even go overkill on the parts. that you can't get with commercial gear. |
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| destroyer X |
I have worked in audio industries, inside Sony.
I am sorry, but no priceless...because matched components is a hell in my country, maybe in your country you can match...here i have to go 20 shops and buy what they have....cannot test too long inside shop...movement too big.
This way i buy 100 to use 4 pairs or something alike...price goes up.
Also we have not the all machinery... this way you order one copper plate.... will cost more than 5000 copper plates.
You spend a lot of time.... calculate your money income if working those ours, and observe how much the cost.
You can he rich, and can have a lot of instruments....have an spectrum analiser?... do you know how much it cost?
You solder one by one, manual
Many, many things.... and i think result can be the same....not better than factories.
I made more than 4000 amplifiers since 9 years old... i have now 53 years old....my damn JVC system have one chip inside.....let me remember.....Sanyo STK4142 II..... the same Marantz used long time.... this audio, beat more then a half i done... and is a damn chip audio system.... 300 dolares system...old..... 12 years age.
I go on constructing, but cannot believe those things... sorry to not agree with majority people.... this is not kind and educated, and not a good policy...but cannot stay silent.
And i think, really, people do not need to make so much efforts to make better construction than Industrie...Just because industrie is not thinking in this kind of competition,.... the competition there is price and easy construction, reliability, long life use, construction price and a lot of different approaches.... I can see people making better look appliances.... i suppose to see a pretty machine, or to show to friends.... can have good things, maybe better, less price, without so hard work.... related the pleasure to construct... only small things....if you think in a really complex system...needing 2000 transistor you will have to jump to chips...this way...not more diy.... is assemble it yourself....and.... in the reality...people is assembling only...only small fractions is trying to real do it themselves..... or, having forum aids... alike a green amplifier, a cooperation construction of one unit... that sounded awfull...i assemble this amplifier too.
No one can beat John Lindsey Hood... so, you can put diamonds in front panel.... Mr john will kick your a..
Carlos |
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| sam9 |
"you can also make it just the way you want it."
AND--
"Depends on what you mean by 'better.' "
These two cover most of the reasons. Any manufacturer has to try to find a combination of features that appeal to a variety of customers - even in high-end. This means you are almost always paying for somethings you don't need/want and almost always not getting exactly what you want/need. This ties in with the concept of better. Look at the discussions on this forum about the sonic benefits of low distortion versus harmonic profiles. Details of construction that may or may not relate to sound are deemed important or unimportant by different people. One person may have to have WBT connectors, BG caps and an enclosure machined from a solid block of aluminum while some one else may think the ultimate is ultra-low Doug Self job mounted in a surplus ammo can!
On top of the debatables above, commercial houses that face any kind of price competition are forced to make many small incremental compromises such as on sinks, filter caps and transformers, that DIYer may not have to. |
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| destroyer X |
This way, i will be here more time reading and having more input.
Maybe you can change my mind..... i think this is a progress to my person.
Go ahead.
Carlos |
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| Ric_LV |
Allright. I see that amps are better if they comercial. They are at least more reliable. But I don't agree with DIY loudspeakers. In Latvia we have a famous loudspeaker company ( famous at least in ex-USSR countries). Their speakers are good and cheap especially the subs, but they dont make loudspeakers for high-powered amps. But putting more speakers together, adding some other and building a correct box, me and my friend (OK mostly my friend) built a pair of massive loudspeakers spending only 300$ !!! The sound was amazing. Not high end though, but sure better than anything Sony could give. Not hi end Sony offcourse. Here's RRR link
http://www.rrr.lv site is also in english |
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| Jay |
| quote: | Originally posted by Ric_LV
Allright. I see that amps are better if they comercial. |
Says who?
| quote: | Originally posted by Ric_LV
They are at least more reliable. |
Yeah rite. And you don't need to spray the pot either :D
| quote: | Originally posted by Ric_LV
But I don't agree with DIY loudspeakers. |
DIY speakers tend to win in the low budget class. May be
because the non-driver portion dominates the total product cost
in commercial speakers.
And Sony is known for good TV/CRT and VERY BAD speakers ;)
Commercial amps have features that are usually not "available"
with DIY amps (displays, boutiqe enclosure, etc). This portion
is dominant in the total product cost of cheap amps.
Cheap DIY amp with cheap components and BIG transformer (hi power)
is more economical than commercial one if good accessibility is
exist to the component manufacturer (e.g. Japan, China, or your
OWN country if applicable).
JLH, Gainclone (and other chips) are not that expensive. And it
also depends on the meaning of DIY. I have hand drawings of some
hi-end commercial circuits. Is building them also DIY? :D |
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| carlosfm |
Welllll... I've seen at around 1000€ some preamps cramped inside with NE5532 op-amps, lowsy layout and bad PSU.
If I was doing it myself (forget it, I did it:D ), with that kind of money I would use much better components, trafos, or even a nice box (all copper?:D ).
Tone controls would have to go away:dead: , a decent pot would come in (not those nasty things in most commercial products), inputs and outputs are what I need, no remote control necessary for me... so, we DIYers make things that we need, our way.
Not prét-a-porter.
Sorry for my french, I don't train it too much...:)
Bonne chance!:cool: |
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| destroyer X |
We are making experiments, my person and 12 friends.... long time we switch amplifiers with same power and flat adjustment.
One day i decide to make a test.... i switch always the same, but change the music....people decided by the first one, and second one the same.... reason...i laugh when started... laugh deeply... this way, influenced them....they detect the tone of the first one, and all logic things appear... 1, 3. 5, 7....subjective, mind creations.
by
Carlos |
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| jh6you |
WhyNot:
When I buy a commercial audio product, I check its sound quality (S), design and construction (D&C), and price (P). Meanwhile, many of commercial products that fit for current status of my pocket money normally make me disappointed.
If I do diy, it makes me happy at least with P, and often gives me better S results. In addition, I can do my own D&C. Further more, I could continue in playing development of both S and D&C at reasonably low P. On top of these, most valuable thing is that I enjoy diy itself!!! Why not???
:cool: |
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| thomas997 |
Big companies are just trying to make money.
So if they can take a small short cut to save 10 cents per amp, they probably will.
Im not saying that it is going to make a difference, but you have the option of spending another dollar to do something better if you want..
If we were given their cost per unit to make an amp, I doubt many people could make a better amp for the price. We are probably talking 40-60$ or something for a 400+ amp. (I could be off :))
But they want the huge profit! We just want whatever we want, cheap, expensive, good looking, etc. |
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| Jezz-the-Fezz |
I get what you're all saying; I love the idea of building a rig to compete with high end systems I could never aspire to. The fact is, I couldn't afford to get the components necessary to do that either, if you want to go to the "n'th" degree. One thing that DIY'ing does allow you to do, however, is avoid compromise. Commercial manufacturers have to appeal to more than one potential customer; the diy'er does not. The DIY builder has the opportunity to emphasise all of the aspects of his build or design that he (or she) finds paramount and perhaps lacking in commercial products. Incidently, I've got my late dads John Lindsey Hood PA; does anyone have a clue how it compares to the latest Gainclones?
Cheers, Jezz |
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| soongsc |
When companies plan for a market, they need to figure out the worst sales, the predicted sales, and the optimistic sales. Since no matter how much a company loves audio just for the sake of it, no one wants to lose money on it in the process of sharing the results with conumers. I'm sure that each DIYer would do the same if they sold their products. There are lots of parts suppliers for DIY here, and I'm sure they do not want to lose money either.
If you actually count the hours you spent on DIY and factor it with your salary on an hourly basis, you migh find that DIY most cases are not cheaper. But you can customize to your own requirements without compromise. |
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| ervington |
I'm in it for the customizability. If I go to Best Buy or start to look around on the web for an amp, virtually everything I see is "5.1 surround sound, Dolby Digital, 1 trillion watts!, UltraBassBoost!, 18 audio inputs (with no LP input still) etc, etc..." All I need is an amp that drives 2 speakers in stereo and can reproduce the signal from my record player. So I find on the internet some simple stereo receivers and they're so freaking expensive I might as well make a learning experience out of it and just build my own. Because for me, virtually anything I buy is going to have something I don't need, won't use, or won't like. If I make it, I'll love every resistor and capacitor (as long as it's not in the signal path).
But in the end, DIY is an enjoyable hobby. If I knew how to make millions a year doing it, that would be nice, but then it would be a job. I could save time buying what the guy at Best Buy thinks I should, or I can waste some time and end up with something personal.
PS: the first time I heard how loud and clean 8W from a tube amp could drive my speakers over my 50W/channel solid state it changed my world. Not saying one is better than the other, just that in DIY I'm not being fed a line (You NEED those 50W/channel) just to get me to buy something. |
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