| audiotang |
Anyone heard/tested the new TANGBAND W3-517SA, which appears to have a wooden, Lowther type phase plug?
i just ordered a pair of W3-871 for a DIY project, but noticed on the TB web site the new 3" with the big wood phase plug and am wondering what the story is with that.
Also, any reason why TANGBAND doesn't design their full range speakers to be as sensitive/efficient as Fostex or Lowther? Seems to limit their application to SET based systems if sensitivity is at only 86 spl
Thanks
W3-517SA
http://www.tb-speaker.com/detail/1208_03/w3-517sa.asp |
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| Stocker |
| X-Max 0.20mm = no bass. no midbass even. typo? |
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| audiotang |
thanks. you're right, 0.20 mm doesn't seem possible.... it may be a typo ? but that figure is repeated in specs for several other TB 3" spkrs.
I dunno... how can it push enough air to get any SPL if the x-max is so low? But this appears to be the speaker of choice for some DIY builders who claim good bass output.... ???????:confused: |
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| audiotang |
| oops... let me clarify.... the TB 3" spkr commonly used in DIY projects is the W3-871 with the aluminum phase plug, not the W3-517SA with the wood plug. It's the W3-517SA i'm interested in learning about. |
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| Rudolf |
The specs say, the W3-517SA has an underhung design and an air gap height of 6 mm. So FWIW Xmax HAS to be much more than 0.2 mm.
Haven´t I seen this phase plug as a knob on some drawers?:rolleyes:
Rudolf |
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| audiotang |
| HA ! you are right, it DOES kinda look like a drawer knob. Wonder if it really does what is intended.... increase high end dispersion. Definitely lacks the refined look of a LOWTHER with a wood phase plug. |
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| Stocker |
:D that was my first comment as well "that's not a phase plug, it's KNOB! "
anyhow, it occurs to me that if it's not a typo, it's because the motor can't hack all that MASS all over the place. Come to think of it, the xmax make sense unless the wood is balsa or something light like that. Small magnet, high mass, let's just limit travel mechanically so it won't flop around eh?
If you want to change the response of the driver, just go down to your local Home Depot... :D |
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| joe carrow |
| quote: | Originally posted by Stocker
:D that was my first comment as well "that's not a phase plug, it's KNOB! "
anyhow, it occurs to me that if it's not a typo, it's because the motor can't hack all that MASS all over the place. Come to think of it, the xmax make sense unless the wood is balsa or something light like that. Small magnet, high mass, let's just limit travel mechanically so it won't flop around eh?
If you want to change the response of the driver, just go down to your local Home Depot... :D |
as far as I know, the phase plug doesn't move; it's stationary and is attached to the motor assembly through the voice coil. |
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| Stocker |
| Ah, then it's just a tweeter. ;) |
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| Stocker |
That's a good opinion to hold, what the linked page says. Who *really* needs 10 liters of swept volume to listen to CDs? we are not after all (most of us) attempting to knock down the walls with bass. I can generally give the guy the point for saying ~music~ may not need the same excursion that HT needs.
That said, I think this is a bit silly. I think if anyone cares to model this particular driver's frequency vs excursion curve, they would find it is overreaching a lot lower than they might like. It may be fine for a near-field monitor setup, but for listening across the room, you'll want a midwoofer at least, possibly. |
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| Stocker |
Where is the edit button?
By that last post, I meant that excursion will limit how loud it can play "full range", specifically low frequencies, if that 0.2mm is correct. |
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| cathode_leak |
Talking about knobs, here's another one... Mounted on a Lowther... on the beauhorn virtuoso......
 |
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| Bill Fitzpatrick |
| quote: | Originally posted by cathode_leak
Talking about knobs, here's another one... Mounted on a Lowther... on the beauhorn virtuoso......
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Nice link, thanks. |
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| AnthonyPT |
Hi
Have been using the earlier w3-517S1 for some time
in a cored well stuffed 150mm acrylic sphere.
Good from around 200hz up. I have two pairs and
might put one set into a 200mm wood sphere. Will try
and fish out my Clio measurements if I can. Imaging is
great and I might even Dammar one of the pairs to
compare performance.
AnthonyPT |
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| motherone |
| That looks pretty dang sweet, Anthony. Nice work. |
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| planet10 |
| quote: | Originally posted by AnthonyPT
in a cored well stuffed 150mm acrylic sphere. |
Is that a found item or did you make them?
Egg shapes?
dave |
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| AnthonyPT |
Hi
They are modified light fixtures from Italy
Must use the thick shell types. I also do spheres
in ceramic, wood and soon lightweight concrete.
May to dome in Ozzie Jarrah hard wood too.
AnthonyPT |
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| Cal Weldon |
| quote: | Originally posted by Stocker
Where is the edit button? |
Hi Stocker,
The edit button only seems to stay there for about a half hour or less then simply disappears into computer heaven.
Cal
Edit: spelling |
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| motherone |
| quote: | Originally posted by AnthonyPT
Hi
They are modified light fixtures from Italy
Must use the thick shell types. I also do spheres
in ceramic, wood and soon lightweight concrete.
May to dome in Ozzie Jarrah hard wood too.
AnthonyPT |
Very nice... Any how-to's or guides to picking them out? I'd love to make some gallo-esque sphere speakers! |
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| AnthonyPT |
Hi
Doing the Gallo thing is where I started.
I had a pair purchased in San Fran when on
a visit to the USA. This was in 2000.
While I have not been able to match the driver
decoupling in the origninal Gallo balls I feel
that a 150mm sphere with the 517S1 or SA can
do a decent job even in an acrylic sphere that
was designed for lighting not audio. Besides has
anyone ever really seen a full measurement of a Gallo
ball? An OZ review did take them apart and found
sort of straws as stuffing! Then had a hard
time getting the unit back together. My acrylics
I call Calipsos are fine as long as you do not
drop them. Gallos dent if you drop them. Papier mache
might be the go. Its tough and when lacquered looks great.
My dentist loves the Gallos I bartered
for some bridge work !
Pictures show papier Mache lacquered unit and Acrylic
cored sphere.
AnthonyPT |
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| planet10 |
| quote: | Originally posted by AnthonyPT
and found sort of straws as stuffing! |
I've seen straws used for aperiodic loading but not as stuffing... i can see how it might work thou.
An easiy to DIY approach, and something that is quite versatile -- quite complex shapes could be made. An artist friend does a lot of papier mache with good results. One of my favorites is the attached lawyer. We actually discussed building speakers this way, but then he moved...
dave |
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| planet10 |
| quote: | Originally posted by AnthonyPT
Pictures show papier Mache lacquered unit and Acrylic cored sphere.
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Have you larger pictures?
dave |
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| AnthonyPT |
| Here is the Papier Mache |
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| AnthonyPT |
Here are the acrylics with the
threads for light fitting use removed
ready to fit any 3" round driver
. |
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| planet10 |
| quote: | Originally posted by AnthonyPT
Here is the Papier Mache |
Some major care to get that morroe finish!!! impressive
dave |
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| AnthonyPT |
Here is the 205mm ceramic stoneware
unit with a Axon 4 inch. IMHO very nice !
I have slightly smaller spheres that
will take 3" drivers but have not had the
time to cut the six holes for each sphere.
Tiring and tedious but worth it if you can do it.
Line it wiith a weighted core and rock wool.
AnthonyPT |
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| AnthonyPT |
As to the Lacquerware papier mache
work, Cambodia, Vietnam and Laos
do this sort of thing so well and at
low cost. Could do the same sort of
magic on a Paulownia wood sphere with the
right local contacts.
AnthonyPT |
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| motherone |
Anthony, all I can say is those are damn cool! I haven't seen something this spiffy in a long time. Thank's for the inspiration! I'm going to have to look into building some of these guys for sure, now!
Could you provide any more insight into how you're mounting the drivers? Any tricks to it, or is it pretty straight forward? |
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| AnthonyPT |
Hi motherone,
Thanks for the encouragement!
To mount drivers I find I generally use a sort of
blue tack or equivalent. I use a Jaycar
speaker sealant cat.CF-2762 it is grey and
then on the ceramic spheres it makes a very nice
gasket to support and seal the drivers. As you can see
I have used nylon nuts and bolts to perhaps help
decouple the driver. The TBW3-517 drivers I have used
steel nuts but mounted them with the heads also
facing outwards. I can then add short offsets (spacers) to add
a grill to deter fingers if necessary. The black support as seen
in the red lacquer picture is a plumbing ring but with rubber
edging which can be added to keep the driver positioned.
Wall mounting could be done with Altronics bracket Cat.H8012.
I have been playing with the Ikea speakers stands for a while.
See pictures. Putting weighted cores in the sphere really makes
life easier and overcomes a lot of issues. The 517s drivers seem to be
ok in a 150mm sphere but I will be trying a 200mm also.
The 517 door nob phase plugs, which are really what this thread
is about, sometimes needs to be reglued but have not had
anymore trouble with them since. Maybe a Dammar coating might
enhance things??
Check out these sites:
http://www.jaycar.com.au
http://www.altronics.com.au
For other ideas (small subs) check
http://www.historystones.com/noname4.html |
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| jim_vt |
| quote: | | for what it's worth, there is at least one DIY veteran who claims lower x-max sounds better: |
I read that link - thanks for providing me with a source of a good laugh :smash:
Apparently, he's not very familar with XBL^2 (even though he makes mention of them), LMT or any of the other low-distortion, high-excursion drivers that are out there today. Most of the problems he described have been significantly reduced/eliminated on modern driver designs, even under/overhung ones.
It was an enjoyable read :clown: |
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| AnthonyPT |
Hi
In my last post about spheres and the 517 drivers I
must have been having a bad hair day ! It should have
said "screws face outwards from within the sphere
then washers and nuts are used to hold the driver
on the sphere." I only use nuts and bolts on my subwoofers
after a screw and nut combo failed and the driver needed
refitting !
Regards
AnthonyPT |
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