| billinchile |
I have only recently joined this forum and am very pleased with the help I received from Ingvar Ahlberg on my first posting regarding a problem with my Dynaco FM3.
Chile is a beautiful country; great for skiing, very nice and rapidly improving wines, but in terms of analogue audio we are really isolated at the bottom of the world here.
Several months ago, I purchased a Walker CJ61 turntable through eBay. It took me a while to get around to setting it up. First, because I discovered that I needed an arm with an integrated arm rest (no place to attach an arm post). Last weekend, I mounted a Stax carbon fiber arm that I had stashed away and forgotten. The cartridge is a Signet MR5.0e. I've tried to attach a picture, but since I'm new on this forum, I'm not sure if it will appear.
The electricity here in Chile is 240v 50HZ. Although the Walker came from Australia, I was wary about just plugging it into the mains (too many bad experiences) so I attached it to a variac beginning at 90v, pushed the "on" button on the table and slowly brought up the voltage. Nothing happened at 110, but at 127v, with a slight nudge the table turns at the correct 33 1/3 speed. My question is, might is this table designed to run on 240V? Would I be risking destroying the motor by increasing the voltage? Is there a way to discover what voltage the motor is designed for? I haven't had any luck searching for information on the internet. |
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| sreten |
Australian mains is 240V Hz.
Everything sounds fine for connecting 240V.
A 115V motor should start on its own by ~ 90V.
A 240V motor should start on its own at by ~ 180V.
I'd expect the voltage and frequency to be printed somewhere on the motor.
Also the voltage rating of the phase shifting capacitor should help.
:) sreten. |
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| ingvar ahlberg |
Hi again Bill
I think Sreten is right, the Walker should be for 240v, check motor and and capacitor as mentioned.
Congratulations on having the Stax arm awaiting the turntable, which model is it? If needed i´ll mail You a better, printable, allignment protractor than the original. |
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| billinchile |
Hi,
I got into the innards of the table and took a look at the motor. I have tried to enclose a picture, but when I click on "submit reply" I get the following response that tells me:
"The image that you have attached is too big. Please make it no bigger than 800 x 1200". I don't know how to do that. But this is what is printed on the motor: Sodeco Switzerland 110VAC 60HZ 3.5W
It would be great to have a good alignment template for my tonearm. The wand is carbon fiber. I have several pictures of it as well. Same problem for including a picture.
Bill |
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| sreten |
Hmmmmm......
Now it gets confusing.
A 110V motor can be used on 240VAC with the right series resistor.
And a 60Hz motor can be used with 50Hz with the right pulley.
You say it does run at the right speed.
If it doesn't run at the right speed you need a new pulley
or a 60Hz oscilator supply.
If it does run at the right speed measure the voltage across
the series resistor, it its ~ 50% then 240V should be fine.
Also measure the resistor value which will give you the current
and thus as you know motor voltage its power dissapation.
Correct operating current is likely to be ~ 10mA.
For 240V operation the resistor only needs to be high enough
to keep the motor within its power range, so by keeping track
of voltage and current you can confirm this.
:) sreten. |
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| Raka |
If it runs at the correct speed, you are half way home ;) and can forget about the marking of the motor.
You only have to step down the voltage with a suitable resistor. In my thorens, the winding is 10Kohm, so an external 10K power resistor does the job of making the voltage half the value. I would start with a high value resistor until I hit the correct value.
Well, actually I would build an oscillator as better solution. In my case, the mains is a bit slower than 50Hz, that's what my Metallica LP says ;) |
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| sreten |
| quote: | Originally posted by Raka
Well, actually I would build an oscillator as better solution. In my case, the mains is a bit slower than 50Hz, that's what my Metallica LP says ;) |
???? how can you tell from the LP ? :) sreten. |
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| Raka |
| Well, you can ask James about the corchea value, and if he's drunk you can put the same record in cd trying to synchronize both. :clown: |
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| ingvar ahlberg |
| Mine does´nt seem to fit in the tray of CD player |
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| billinchile |
I want to thank everyone for helping me out with this problem.
I finally found a way to provide you with some pictures through a web-hosting site.
Please take a look at the motor and associated components at
http://img3.imageshack.us/my.php?lo...torcapsres2.jpg
the large green resistor has "6K8 5%" on it. The resistance reads 5.67K between the two screw terminals where the resistors are connected. The pink cap is .22uF.
Should I apply 110 volts to the motor and then measure the voltage across the two resistors? (why there are 2 instead of just one I don't understand).
Bill |
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| sreten |
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/show...t=&pagenumber=1
The picture is from the above thread you may find interesting,
note the top right hand corner, this a 240V 50Hz model.
As far as I know around 3K ohm is usual for 110V, 6.8K ohm is too high for 110V.
:) sreten.
P.S. the foam in the springs and the plastic tie if fitted have to go IMO.
P.P.S. you can only directly show JPEG or GIF
images that are less than 800 x 600 pixels. |
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| sreten |
I see you've already cut the "tie", :) sreten.
P.S. it would clean up nicely with some car spray paint. |
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| billinchile |
| CJ 61. Sorry for the inversion. |
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| ingvar ahlberg |
Hi Bill
The arm seems to be UA 7 cfN, was available with alu tube, cf tube and straight cf tube, hold on to that arm! Sreten is right about removing the foam dampers in prings. It also pays to take a little time to adjust the suspension.
There seems to be a Dyna Pas 3 (old front), underneat, is that so? |
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| billinchile |
The arm is new out of the box. I installed a Sony headshell because it has lower mass than the original Stax and is easier to adjust the cartridge overhang.
Sharp eyes, there. The preamp I am currently using is indeed a Dynaco brass face PAS2. I haven't given in to temptations to "upgrade" it, although at the minimum I need to install a fuse (a strange oversight on the part of the designer). Before that, I was using a PS 4 unit with the outboard power supply - now on the shelf. It was convenient because it has a switch for MC cartridges as well as a three-position capacitance switch for MM cartridges. But since I was trying to get back to all tubes (using a pair of Dynaco MKIV amps), I decided to try to get transistor equipment out of the signal path. Speakers AR4a, that are a bit inefficient for the amps, given the room size and my desire to recreate the Royal Philharmonic in my living room. Also on the shelf are a pair of Electro-Voice 12" coaxials and one Electro-Voice 15" coaxial. They have remained there due to the incompatibility between their enclosure size requirements and my wife's notions of what is appropriate in the living room.
For the Walker turntable, I have measured the voltage through the doubled-up resistors with 113V coming from the mains and get 47.4VAC. Does that mean I can go ahead and give it the full 240V? |
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| ingvar ahlberg |
Goosebump equipment!
Mk IV, aha, AR 4, i´ll look up the Lange´s and my last pair of The Ski and head for the Andes, skiing season on the way right?
AR still remains among my favourite stuff, 1976 i got a pair of
AR LST´s as a gift from Acoustic Research and Ed Lief ( The Swedish agent) for retailing more AR speakers than any other shop. Fabulous but power craving, gawe them away a few Years later as they needed wallmounting and that was unconvenient at the time. Still regretting this, my friend still happy with them.
My Wife agrees on most speakers and other strange stuff in the livingroom, also flowers wine and shrimps work wonders. |
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| billinchile |
| On the Walker, with 113VAC coming from the mains, I get 47.5 VAC across the resistor. Does that mean I can go ahead and apply the Full Monty of 240VAC without steeling myself for smoke, sparks, and a dead motor? |
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| billinchile |
| On the Walker, with 113VAC coming from the mains, I get 47.5 VAC across the resistor. Does that mean I can go ahead and apply the Full Monty of 240VAC without steeling myself for smoke:apathic:, sparks :hot:,and a :dead: motor? |
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| sreten |
Use the variac to ascertain when the motor will start on
its own. If its ~ 170VAC it should by fine on 240VAC.
:) sreten. |
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| billinchile |
| Will do and let you know. Fire extinguisher charged and ready.:D |
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| billinchile |
| BTW, should I be checking the voltage across the resistor as well? And is there a maximum beyond which it shouldn't go? |
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| sreten |
I'm sure everything will be fine.
There is no maximum for the voltage across the resistor,
the higher it is the safer the motor is.
Find the self start voltage and leave it running at that for a while.
Turn it off and use the worlds best 65 degree C temperature probe
(your finger) for the temperature of the resistors and the motor.
If you can hold your finger on them without pain apply 240V AC.
Run for a bit and then repeat the temperature tests, the motor
should be fine, the resistors may be designed to run a little hot.
:) sreten. |
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| billinchile |
| Sounds easy even for me. |
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| billinchile |
| I hooked up the variac and the capstan started to turn a bit reluctantly at 110V. But that is without the belt attached to the capstan. Right now, I have the inner table shaft well removed. I saw a ball bearing at the bottom of it and thought it would be a good idea, given the age of the unit, to remove and clean the bearing before lubricating it. But it doesn't drop out of the shaft, so I injected a bit of thinner to try to get any gunk out. Now that it is clean, I'll put some oil (light machine oil, I assume) in, mount the outer table and see how much voltage is required in order for the motor to get the whole thing rotating. |
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| ingvar ahlberg |
| quote: | | Also on the shelf are a pair of Electro-Voice 12" coaxials |
Those would fit in a pair of TQWT´s without being too obtrusive in the livingroom and make a nice match with the mk IV´s. |
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| billinchile |
| quote: | Originally posted by ingvar ahlberg
Those would fit in a pair of TQWT´s without being too obtrusive in the livingroom and make a nice match with the mk IV´s. |
Please translate that acronym for me, my friend. |
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| ingvar ahlberg |
TQWT, Tapered Quarter Wawe Tube , a loudspeaker principle dating from the 30´s. Among the early designers were Paul Voight.
There is a lot of info and knowledge in this forum, check:http://www.quarter-wave.com/
andhttp://www.t-linespeakers.org/
Also take a look at my "19 Hz tl" under Loudspeakers |
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| ingvar ahlberg |
Hi Bill!
Which model are Your EV 12" coaxials?
As im doing the drawings for my new 12" ML-TL´s i might as well draw a design for those, so You can see what size they would be.
On a (slightly) other topic, i found a real nice Chilean wine, Santa Rita Floresta Syrah/Merlot 99. I´m partial to Syrah wines) There is a good supply of wine from Chile in Sweden, but its hard to find a pure Syrah (Shiraz), do You know any such that are good, would make it easier to order some for test |
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| billinchile |
| quote: | Originally posted by ingvar ahlberg
Hi Bill!
Which model are Your EV 12" coaxials?
As im doing the drawings for my new 12" ML-TL´s i might as well draw a design for those, so You can see what size they would be.
On a (slightly) other topic, i found a real nice Chilean wine, Santa Rita Floresta Syrah/Merlot 99. I´m partial to Syrah wines) There is a good supply of wine from Chile in Sweden, but its hard to find a pure Syrah (Shiraz), do You know any such that are good, would make it easier to order some for test |
Actually, I have two pairs of Electro-Voice speakers TRX15-B and TRX12-B. All pristine and sitting there waiting for the proper enclosure.
It seems that every month a new boutique winery appears in Chile. There is a promissing trend moving toward combining different grape varieties in the same bottle. Here in Santiago, we live just down the street from a store called "El Mundo de Vino" which claims to be the largest in South America. However, I prefer a competitor across the street from it called La Vinoteca. More personal service and nice tastings every Saturday morning. The Floresta wines are especially fine and a bit pricy by Chilean standards. You might enjoy the Montes Alpha Syrah.
I like Syrah very much as well, lusting after some of those Australians, but practically none are imported into Chile. |
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| ingvar ahlberg |
Hi Bill
Can´t find the T/S specs on Your drivers, You dont have any info on this? Nothing on E-V site. I´ll put the question up under "loudspeakers".
( Will check if possible to send a Brown Brothers Syrah by mail) |
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| ingvar ahlberg |
Hello again Bill!
Thanks to Mikey P we´re getting somewhere.
Since i started reading some 40+ years ago i´ve been aware of the myths regarding lost treasures in the Andes, seems it´s all true, those E-V gems You´ve got will make Englands crown jewels fade into oblivion!
So now i´ve got the info i need to design a "box" for theese drivers,( going for the 12"´s as i think they´re the best of the two). You won´t need anything closet sized at all for these, and i think end result will be tremendously awarding. Also, my experince says, when Your wife feels the soul You (will have) put into these speakers she will love them too.
I´ll start drawing now, and as i gather from our communications Your interest is inclined towards "classical" music, so when the E-V´s are properly housed i´ll send You a good first edition of Tchaikovsky Piano Concerto #1 - Van Cliburn / Kondrashin on RCA living stereo LSC2252. |
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| billinchile |
| That is extremely kind of you to take the time to help me get these speakers properly housed. You are right about my musical tastes. BTW, I'm making up a Chilean wine list for you. |
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| ingvar ahlberg |
First drawings just to get a picture of size of cabinets.
First is side view, only basic measures included. |
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| ingvar ahlberg |
Second is basic front view to show width of cabinet.
Are Your drivers the first model, stamped steel chassis, or the later die cast aluminium type?. Baffle and mounting have to be designed according to type. |
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| billinchile |
The drawings look great. I wish the speakers were the cast models, but they aren't. They are the stamped ones.
Just out of curiosity, how much larger would the cabinets have to be in order to accomodate my 15" triaxials? |
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| ingvar ahlberg |
| The stamped chassis makes for easier mounting, i think sound quality is equal. For the 15" same design, just wider,440mm, and larger port. |
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| ingvar ahlberg |
Some detail added to drawing.
Damping is: Red- Heavy felt mat, good type sold at car spare dealers, used for sound and vibration damping on car floors etc.
Green- light damping type Accusto Q or polyfill.
Final measures are, of course, dependant on wall thickness and that is material related. For final drawings i´ll switch to pencil and paper, doesn´t look as tidy as cad but i like it better and easier to put more detail in. |
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| billinchile |
This is great. Is the project that someone without cabinet-maker skills can do (once having the pieces cut to size) or do I need to farm this out to a pro? Note that in the apartment building I have a small underground-level storage room (great for wine with the temperature always around 18 degrees) but no major power tools. Also, exact material brands may be impossible to find. I have long searched for things like Blue-Tac in Santiago to no avail.
Bill |
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| ingvar ahlberg |
This cabinet can be assembled by anyone with basic woodwork and tool knowledge. Building speakers like this without advanced powertools there is two ways to go (imo). Use either high density chipboard (19mm) or good quality plywood (18mm). MDF is easy to get a good finish on (Paint) but inferior in all other ways.
Chipboard is hard to get good finish on, only way is veneer and that is pretty hard on a cabinet this size if You haven´t got prior experience. There are decent vinyl iron-on veneer types but takes good preparation. Plywood will make stunning finish possible with ordinary tools. Always by cut to meassure,regardless material. What keeps box together is always glue, any decent wood glue (white) will do, outdoor graded types best. Polyurethane sub zero degree graded is best and sets fast but demands GOOD ventilation at work area.
When You´ve decided material i´ll do final drawings and cutting list for the lumberyard. (Found a record today!! Yehudi Menuhin and The Philharmonia Orchestra playing Mendelsson/Bruch original HMV (1964 i think) unplayed!, will play all night) |
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| Alasdair Beal |
Dear Friend,
I'm pleased to hear that a Walker CJ61 has turned up in Chile. I have run one for many years (bought directly from the maker, Colin Walker, one of the nicest people in hi fi). It is a fine turntable and there are several tweaks I can recommend.
1. If you can get a good quality external power supply designed for turntables, it will bene fit. (I use a Hi Fi News 'Flutterbuster'.) These power supplies have quartz-locked frequency and reduce the power fed to the motor.)
2. The best free upgrade is to remove the foam cores from the suspension springs, which cleans up and extends the bass. If the turntable is a bit bouncy to handle, place a small piece of rubber on top of the armboard where it exits the main 'drum' enclosure, trimmed to that there is a small clearance between them. This will not interfere when it is playing but will come into contact and steady the turntable when you are cuing a record.
3. It is worth checking the speed of the turntable with a strobe. Many of the CJ61s produced had pulleys which were correctly sized for 45rpm but were at the bottom of the specified tolerance range for 33rpm, so they ran slightly slow. You may be lucky and have a good one but the one I got ran a little slow, which (to my ear) was noticeable. The 'cheap and cheerful' remedy (recommended by Colin Walker) is to remove the belt, set the motor running and then carefully apply a coat or two of nail varnish to it. However I found that this tends to get a bit rough after prolonged use, so eventually I took my pulley (it is a press fit on the motor spindle) to a metal machinist and got him to make a copy with a slightly larger diameter. He made it slightly oversized and then I reduced it to 'perfect pitch' using very fine emery paper (with the belt removed and the motor running). It was quite expensive but it was worth it.
With these upgrades, I believe the CJ61 is an excellent and under-rated turntable. |
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| billinchile |
| Thanks very much for your suggestions. I had already removed the foam cores,and I will check the speed as you advise. What tonearms do you feel are most compatible with this table? |
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| Alasdair Beal |
Dear friend,
I have only tried three tonearms on the CJ61: a Rega RB250, a Mayware Formula 4 MkIII and a Mayware MkV. All of them worked well (the Mayware MkV is the one I use now). Because the arm support is outboard on the CJ61, it is probably best to use an arm which is not too heavy.
Yours sincerely,
Alasdair Beal |
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