| Alain Dupont |
Hi,
I had a meeting this afternoon with Francois Gagné he came home with his Zen V4
I had my A75 and a prototype CCS-X-BOSOZ ,
Wonderful afternoon, the CCS-X-BOSOZ dit the job well unbalanced
on the Zen V4 or balanced on the A75
The Zen V4 is such a great amplifier, we should do these meetings
more often.
It has been a privilege to listen to both amplifiers.
Thanks Nelson, the Zen V4 is realy a great Pass amplifier
so is the A75, the difference was subtle, even rethinking of some listenings ;
each amplifiers has its own signature, but overall the sound was great.
Even it was difficult to tell which sounded better, they gave us
marvelous sound, and great pleasure.
Setup:
Zen V4 {Francois}
A75 {Alain}
CCS-X-BOSOZ stereo {Bias 50 mA}
Speakers: 2*Martin Logan Aerius i
Speaker cables:12 Ft 2*Coax Belden 89259 {from Jon Rich cuisine}
Interconnect balanced: 3 Ft Belden 89207 connectors Neutrik XLR {from Jon Rich cuisine}
Interconnects Acoustic Research twisted pair AR132
HDCD player NAD C 541
CD's:
Norah Jones "Come away with me" & "Feels like home"
Frank Zappa "Have I offended someone ?"
Sting "Sacred love"
Rackmaninoff "Symphonic dances" Eiji Oue and the Minnesota orchestra RRR
Strauss "Zarathustra" Solti and the Berliner orchestra by Decca
Rackmaninoff "Preludes, opp23 & 32" Vladimir Askenazy piano by Decca
Two great amplifiers, and a fantastic afternoon.
Alain. |
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| Nelson Pass |
Thanks for sharing. I liked all those amps, but then I
have been accused of being undiscriminating ;) |
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| François |
Alain does not want to admit it but his A75 was very musical, more musical then my Zen V4. The piano was amazing compared to the Zen. Maybe the Martin Logan are not the best match to see the quality of the Zen? Both were good performers with the music we listened.
Of course, we tried Frank Zappa...so Nelson can sleep in peace :D
Very nice afternoon! |
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| Alain Dupont |
Francois,
Thanks,
Nelson, we loved the session, and Zappa is great !
I have a question for you, I and looking at the Aleph 1.7 preamp
and found a 87LPC762 to replace the dead 87C752 from Philips
is it difficult to program these circuits both for volume control and selection of entries ?
Best regards.
Alain. |
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| François |
| Now I will be confused, an Aleph 2 or a A75?? :bawling: |
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| kilowattski |
Alain and Francois,
I also have Martin Logan Aerius i speakers. How did the Zen V4 do driving them? Was there enough umph out of the V4 to drive the Aerius i well? |
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| Nelson Pass |
| quote: | Originally posted by Alain Dupont
I have a question for you, I and looking at the Aleph 1.7 preamp and found a 87LPC762 to replace the dead 87C752 from Philips is it difficult to program these circuits both for volume control and selection of entries ? |
We need Wayne to answer that question. I can design a
processor, but I haven't the faintest idea how to program one ;) |
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| Alain Dupont |
kilowattski,
Yes I think there is enough ; but we didn't try the Zen V4 at high volumes
on the Aerius i . The listening gave very good results, but to my point of view the ML Aerius i need big amplifiers, like the A75. I would love to try a Aleph X with 80/100 watts. {I have two Aleph X Pcb's from HiFiZen ; but it's a future project, to try biamping the ML}
Nelson,
>>We need Wayne to answer that question. I can design a
>>processor, but I haven't the faintest idea how to program one
Well, thanks. It would be kind if you could ask Wayne about that.
I dont need details; but a little overview of the process could help me.
Best regards.
Alain. |
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| François |
| quote: | Originally posted by François
Now I will be confused, an Aleph 2 or a A75?? :bawling: |
Tested alone with these speakers, I think you will like the sound but when compared with the A75, it sounded to me less musical (especially with the piano). Again, we did not tried many different type of music and one amplifier was balanced and the other one not so could it be the difference?? I don't know.
Alain? Opinion? |
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| François |
| ahah, at the same time: 9h24 :) |
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| till |
Alain,
Waynes answer would be very interesting for me also. The main problem with the relays switching i do have is, when relay signal it make a lot of noise. The intersting task of the code is how to supress such noise.
I use a relais attenuator with MC for my BZLS.
Last rev. does the following:
- reading rotary encoder and set the 8 relais in range from 0 to 255
- store the last volume used and count up to it after power on
- on push function of the encoder change between 2 sources
- at source change change the volume setting to the one last used on that source.
- from one value up mute between switching the relais. (supresses some noise)
- at sourcechange mute for short time. (also supresses some noise.
- at power up wait some time with mute before count up the volume, choose the last source used.
- the code tries to minmimize errors from bouncing of encoder switches.
Its designed for minimal parts and elements at user interface (1 knob) no fancy features. MC uses internal clock so not much hardware needed.
http://home.tu-clausthal.de/~tpa/relais/index.html |
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| stefanobilliani |
| quote: | Originally posted by François
Again, we did not tried many different type of music and one amplifier was balanced and the other one not so could it be the difference??
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Yes , it could be . Infact for a good comparison it would be good try the ZENV4 balanced . I believe that the Martin Logan Aerius need at least 70 Watts . |
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| Alain Dupont |
Till,
>>The main problem with the relays switching i do have is, when relay >>signal it make a lot of noise. The intersting task of the code is how to >>supress such noise.
Yes the noise is a major pb when switching!
>>I use a relais attenuator with MC for my BZLS.
>>Last rev. does the following:
>- reading rotary encoder and set the 8 relais in range from 0 to 255
I don't need 255 positions I would be happy with 64 or 128 pos...
> - store the last volume used and count up to it after power on
Nice to have...
> - on push function of the encoder change between 2 sources
Nice function ... get only one coder to do the job
> - at source change change the volume setting to the one last used on that >source.
Fine also...
> - from one value up mute between switching the relais. (supresses some >noise)
Well I need to have "no noise" while switching, its very important.
> - at sourcechange mute for short time. (also supresses some noise.
> - at power up wait some time with mute before count up the volume, >choose the last source used.
> - the code tries to minmimize errors from bouncing of encoder switches.
> Its designed for minimal parts and elements at user interface (1 knob) no >fancy features. MC uses internal clock so not much hardware needed.
I have seen your site, great job.
I need to figure out how to suppress all noise from such a design,
because I would prefer a carbon pot like ALPS without noise to a relay
solution that brings noise....
Question:
Do you have a board for programing the device?
How do you put the program on the chip?
Regards.
Alain. |
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| till |
| quote: | | I don't need 255 positions I would be happy with 64 or 128 pos... |
If you could tell me the position you like i can sort out the others for a firmware rev. Alain.
I prefer the fine resolution of 255 steps.
| quote: | | Well I need to have "no noise" while switching, its very important. |
i´m not sure if thios is possible. But if someone tells me how i will implement.
| quote: | | Do you have a board for programing the device? |
i build a programmer for the PIC
| quote: | | How do you put the program on the chip? |
there is a crossassembler on the PC and the code is flahed with the diy programmer. |
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| BobEllis |
Total SWAG, but how about 47-100K from each signal line to ground to prevent it floating while relays are switching?
I vaguely remember seeing something about this a while back... |
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| Alain Dupont |
BobEllis,
Thanks, it cannot be a cap, because it would distord the signal
so the resistor is the great idea.
Thanks for your precious help Bob.
I will install 2*6 relays {to make 2*64 steps} on a PCB with 1% precision attenuation resistors and try a 100K to ground on each signal line.
Will rapidly hear the results... {Hope so !}
PS: What a good memory you have !
And are there better relays for this application: Reed relays with screen or...
Best regards.
Alain. |
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| Alain Dupont |
Till and Bob,
like this ?
Alain. |
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| Alain Dupont |
| Better with this one ! |
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| BobEllis |
Alain,
I have no practical experience with it, but that's what I was thinking - let me know if it works.
Bob |
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| till |
I´m very intersted in the difference you find.
With only 6 relais the range from lowest to highest setting is not really enough imo. |
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| Alain Dupont |
Francois,
I am currently doing tests with the unbalanced outputs of the CCS-X-BOSOZ
connected to the A75, and there is so few differences driving the A75 balanced or not. I will persue these tests with the records we listened yesterday, to hear if there is any difference. Perhaps a little more background noise...
I joined kuo kyc about the wishay dale 10K stepped attenuator I use at the outputs, he told me about a lubricating excess, and to "repeatedly rotate the switch"
Well I did 50 complete rotations, thats 50 one way and 50 reverse,
and the noise diminished a lot, I will test 100 more complete
rotations... will see after that. He offered to replace with an other one
or send the money back to me ; if it doesn't work properly...
Best regards.
Alain. |
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| Alain Dupont |
Till, and Grey
I have done some little math, old logic... 1/*2/*4/*8/*16/*32/*64/*128 etc
For 64 steps: if I use 6 relays with the following resistors
100 Ohms
200 Ohms
400 Ohms
800 Ohms
1600 Ohms
3200 Ohms
That gives me
0;100;200;300;400;500;600;700;800;900;1000;1100;1200;1300;
....................
etc until
5900;6000;6100;6200;6300 End
all steps with 100 Ohms increment
Thats a variation from 0 to 6300 Ohms or 6.3 K
Is it usable for the purpose of the CCS-X-BOSOZ or is there an other type of progression to use... ?
Alain. |
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| till |
i did not find any better than doubeling each bit.
For my 8 Bit i use 62/120/240/510/1000/2000/3900/8200 Ohm
I made before a 6 Bit with ADC 0804 control and ended adding a 7th with a separate switch. That one was like the lower 6 of the above i hope to remember.
I think what your values are ok. |
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| Alain Dupont |
Till,
Thanks for the report.
For the pb at position 01111111 to 10000000.
could it work with
Mute
Then put all to 1: 11111111
wait 10milli second
then open the relay's last 7 bits to: 10000000
release mute
it is be called Make before Break...
It will work one way, but must be done differently for the other way...
Regards.
Alain. |
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| Alain Dupont |
| Some pictures of the: CCS-X-BOSOZ |
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| Alain Dupont |
| Output side... |
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| Alain Dupont |
| Input and CCS side... |
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| Alain Dupont |
| Working on the ElectroSwitch... |
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| Alain Dupont |
| Still stuffing the resistor side... |
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| moe29 |
Is that a 24 position 5K pot that you are building for the output?
if so, would love to know what resistor values you're using.
m. |
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| Alain Dupont |
| Stepped stereo attenuator 10K ready for CCS-X-BOSOZ input |
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| jam |
Ouch! That must have been painful to build........nice work though.
Regards,
Jam |
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| Alain Dupont |
Jam,
Thanks,
started yesterday, thats about 12 hour job....
It will be the input attenuator for the first version, I am choosing a controler to make a remote and stepped attenuator with relay's...
But with a Macintosh, its hard to find...
Alain. |
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| Adams_Leo |
Hi Alain,Could you post your x-ccs-bosoz circuitry here.I am planning to build one for my XSOZ.
Thanks
Leo |
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| Adams_Leo |
Alain,Very thanks.You informatio is very useful for me to build the X-CCS-BOSOZ preamp.thanks again.
Leo |
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