| PHilgeman |
I will be organizing a group order of the knobs from India. I will post more details later, as time is short right now. But if someone could start a Wiki, that would be great. I will post images and more info later, and if there isnt a Wiki, I will learn to make one.
For now, this is the link to a picture.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/show...9199&highlight=
-Paul Hilgeman |
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| Variac |
Well, I'd like to think I helped precipitate this!
As you no doubt have determined, it would be nice to have the dot to mark position. More important is that the bottom isn't recessed to hide the nut of the switch or pot if it is attached to the panel.
Maybe this isn't such a big deal, because those nuts are pretty thin. I'll look at it again.
I think it would be really cool to get nice knobs from India.
I guess we need some price and avvailaility info..
Mark |
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| PHilgeman |
Like I said details are coming. I will check on all of that.
I will keep posting the updates, but unfortunately we can only effectively communicate for a few hours in the morning.
-Paul Hilgeman |
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| Variac |
| I hope I didn't sound negative. Those knobs look great, and the more I think about it the less I think that the recess on the back is absolutely essential. |
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| Peter Daniel |
The nut will cause too much spacing and it will not look that good. But you can bore the recess in a front panel to hide the nut. Also, if using shaft extenders, this wouldn't be a problem;)
They look pretty good, those knobs. |
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| tcpip |
| quote: | Originally posted by Variac
Well, I'd like to think I helped precipitate this! |
Nice to know you're in on this, old friend. :)
BTW, how come none of you guys want a larger knob to go with this? Or are all of you so staid and respectable that a really outsize grab-it-and-twist knob doesn't turn you on any more? :D
Tarun |
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| pkpickard |
I've been talking to tcpip about the larger knobs, and it appears he is going to go ahead and order some based on his + my need. I'm also interested in the smaller knobs. Could we add the large knobs to the Wiki, and see if we could get any more interest?
I'm in for 10 of the small, and 5-10 of the large (depending on the final price.) If we ended up with a significant number of both, it would sure help to defray the shipping cost to bring them all over at once.
Let me know what you think!
Paul Pickard |
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| roibm |
| Also interested... 10 small some big(depends on the price tho) |
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| tcpip |
Am intending to visit Mr.Valecha's workshop tomorrow and order 20 big knobs. I've decided to go in for 63mm instead of 50mm diameter. Height will be 30 or 35mm; not decided yet. And there will be a recess at the rear to hide the locknut of the potentiometer. The shape will be precisely cylindrical, without any taper or rounding of any edges. (The smaller knobs have a lovely, delicate taper.) And the colour and finish will be exactly the same as the small knob: "fine grain" finish, clear anodised.
For the position marker, I'll ask him to do something simple. I'll probably ask him to just use a 4mm drill bit and make an indentation at one point. This will create a circular depression, about twice the diameter of the depression he's marked on the smaller knobs. Should go very well with the smaller ones, and look like they belong to one set.
Unlike the smaller knobs, I don't know the price of the larger ones. Even Mr.Valecha does not. I'm hoping they'll be USD 5.00 or so each, but I'm mentally prepared for anything upto USD 8.00 each. And as you understand by now, the large knobs don't exist except in my mind. So please don't hope to see pics till a few weeks from now. :)
If you have any ideas/thoughts, please let me know ASAP. You have precisely 12 more hours before I leave home and hit the road. :)
Once I come back from Mr.Valecha's office, I'll post and tell you what specs we've frozen on. I think some of the finer details will be frozen based on his inputs about what works and what doesn't. |
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| PHilgeman |
Alright, it looks like we finally have some interest.
We will be doing small and large knobs.
I would like to post an estimate on the final cost prior to my shipping them, but we are still working out the details of the shipment. So, expect some numbers in the next two days.
For know lets put a tentative closing date on this for next week friday, the 12th. After wich the money will be sent to India.
I would expect about a 3 week turn-around time, as the large knobs have not been built yet.
So we are looking about 6 weeks out to get these into everyone's hands.
From the looks of it, these knobs will be much nicer than the ones offered by Kilo Int. and should actually be cheaper as well, not to mention the fact that you can get large ones.
I would like to ask a question. What size do you think is good for the large knobs?
Have a good one,
Paul Hilgeman |
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| Peter Daniel |
Please note that the standard shaft dia. on most switches and pots available in N. America (and this goes for Elma as well) is 1/4".
I noticed 6mm hole size was mentioned previously, but this won't work with 1/4" shafts. To acomodate that, the hole has to be 6.5mm.
I've been ordering some knobs from China and had to enlarge the original holes (as they were specified 6mm). If you don't have the right reamer available, it's almost impossible to do it properly. |
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| PHilgeman |
I just noticed that myself, and sent the guy an e-mail before I came here.
I wait for his reply.
Hopefully we north americans can be acomodated for so we dont have to use those darned kilo knobs anymore, i am getting sick of looking at them, and they are too small anyways.
-Paul Hilgeman |
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| Variac |
Well, getting the holes wrong is a good way to end up with a bunch of worthless knobs! What a perfect way for Murpheys Law to ruin such a well-intentioned effort. Thanks Peter!
I have some 2" diameter (50mm) knobs, and they are BIG - Like used on tuners. 1.5 to 1.75 would still qualify as big in my book.
I guess we don't need to worry about it until we find out Uncle Valechas capacities and our capacities to pay!!!
These bigger knobs are just the thing for stepped attenuators.
With 1/4" holes!
| quote: | | Nice to know you're in on this, old friend. |
I don't know if Paul saw my link in the gainclone thread to your discussion or not. I have been following the Indian threads, and it is really exciting how you guys are discovering supplies in little shops all over which will allow you to create your own Indian equipment. The global economy now pretty much make those of us in the US have access to almost any parts, but we all end up with pretty similar stuff sometimes. The Indian stuff might turn out to be "special" in a good way!!! These knobs are an example.
Maybe you need some gainclone kits- they now have extra mounting holes. -and the price is right!!!-even with your customs guys!
MArk |
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| PHilgeman |
Thanks!
So that would be 36-42mm.
I would have to agree with this assessment. I would imagine that many people (including myself) will be putting gainclines into chassis that are 2.75" high in the next few months. I think a 1.5" knob on a 2.75" high chassis would look the best.
-Paul Hilgeman |
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| tcpip |
| quote: | Originally posted by PHilgeman
So that would be 36-42mm.
I would have to agree with this assessment. I would imagine that many people (including myself) will be putting gainclines into chassis that are 2.75" high in the next few months. I think a 1.5" knob on a 2.75" high chassis would look the best.
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Hi, Paul and Mark,
I'm personally aiming for large knobs, and this means between 50mm (2") and 63mm (2.5"). My reasoning is that a 2U chassis is 3.5" high (usually 88mm front panel height) and this gives me sufficient space above and below the knob even with a 63mm thing... I get half an inch on either side, to be precise. However, if there's sufficient interest among all of you for a knob of, say, 38mm, then I'll get a custom batch made and ship it to you, specifically for my North American friends, with 6.5mm shaft dia.
And 38mm (1.5") knobs are available off the shelf here for less than a dollar each. I can send you samples. Unfortunately, their shaft diameters are all 6mm. The pots and rotary switches available here are all either 1/8" (3.18mm), or 4mm, or 6mm. Nothing more than 6mm here.
So, it appears that the smaller knobs are going to be unusable in North America, unless all of you organise a group buy for pots and rotary switches too. :D Since this is unlikely, give me a clear idea of quantity, and I'll get a set of small knobs made for you as a custom order. It'll be much more expensive than the ex-stock pieces lying with the manufacturer, but as Paul said, it may still turn out to be much cheaper than what you get in the US, not to speak of being much better looking.
Let's see how this plays out. :) I'm waiting for the close of the group-buy order period.
Tarun |
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| PHilgeman |
Ok, here we go. I just had a conversation with Chandra in India.
We ironed out the hole diameter issue.
They will be re-made to acomodate a 6.5mm hole.
Hopefully in a few days we will have some final prices, and I will set up a webpage just like Brian did, where people can order via PayPal.
The small knob is as follows:
25mm at the bottom, tapering to 22 mm at the top
30mm tall.
It is double anodized and has a matte finnish.
It has a single small indentation to show the position.
It has a single set screw to lock it to the shaft.
The large knob will have the same finish, but will not have a taper. It will be 50mm in diameter.
It will have a slightly larger indentation to show the position.
It has a single set screw to lock it to the shaft.
As far as pricing goes, We will still have to wait a bit longer. Probably tuesday or wednesday at the latest next week.
I can give you some estimates though. This will be before shipping them out once they arrive.
Small should be less than or equal to $5.00 each.
Large should be less than or equal to $12.00 each.
Please keep posting if interested.
-Paul Hilgeman |
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| Cobra2 |
I'm interested too...
-maybe 4-8 big, and more small...
Arne K |
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| goskers |
I would be interested in a large volume control for my gainclone amp.
Thanks |
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| Variac |
| Of course I want about 4 big ones |
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| PHilgeman |
Great, thanks guys.
We need support to make sure this happens. Look to have final numbers to order by next week wednesday or so.
Have a good evening.
-Paul Hilgeman |
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| uvodee |
and I do not want to appear stingy...... (maybe I am, I was raised that way)
BUT............
$5 for a knob, anodized made in India?
I know what word I would wanna use for that but I want to keep this forum clean.
I am sure this costs not more than $0.40 each and then one is still making a profit........
Maybe, just maybe, could you renegociate ?????
I have the feeling that making it diy would be cheaper and then a group order does not seem to make a lot of sense is it?
By the way the diameter I would need is 6.3 mm or 1/4 " .
6.5 mm is far tooo much for regular shafts from knobs such as Alpha, Lorin, Alcatell etc... ,
just my 2 cents
J-P |
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| uvodee |
| quote: | Originally posted by PHilgeman
We ironed out the hole diameter issue.They will be re-made to acomodate a 6.5mm hole. -Paul Hilgeman |
Th reason to have a 6.3 mm hole is simple
1" = 25.2 mm approx
1/4" = general shaft size for variable pots , 1/4 of 25.2 = 6.3 mm
I do not suggest the 6.5 mm allthough it seems a small difference, the result is enormous, it is that big of a difference that the pots will be moving from left to right while held into it's place with the set screw. Believe me on this guys, it needs to be much more accurate, which I ma sure they can be.
J-P |
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| Magura |
For respectively 5$ and 12$.....heck even i'll make them for you and make a good profit, so feel free to make a group order in Denmark instead!!!
I think for that price i could even make the holes 1/4" instead of 6.5mm :)
Magura:) |
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| Magura |
| quote: | Originally posted by uvodee
1" = 25.2 mm approx
J-P |
Just to keep people from getting confused:
1"=25.4mm
Magura:) |
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| uvodee |
| quote: | Originally posted by Magura
Just to keep people from getting confused: 1"=25.4mm
Magura:) |
You are right!
J-P |
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| Peter Daniel |
If you make them exactly 1/4" the shaft will be too tight to fit in. The 6.5 mm comes from Classe knobs, which were made for years and were used on many Classe made preamps. I measured the hole today and it's exactly 6.5mm. When you tighten the mounting screw, the knob stays perfectly centered. Trust me on that.;)
With regards to prices, $5 is OK for the small knob, but $12 doesn't seem like any particular deal on a regular 2" knob.
I mentioned it already in another thread, I can arrange for any knob you could desire, anything that is currently featured on any high end equipment, and if enough orders are pulled together (100 seems like a good number), they could be made for $12 or less as well.
Also, 2" seems like way too big. 1.5" is probably the upper diameter range, but probably something around 1.3" is the best all around size that fits most applications. We could have even that type of a knob for that price;) |
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| Magura |
I've just made a set of 2" solid brass knobs for a friend of mine.
2" (50.8mm) is not terribly big once mounted.
Besides that, the size makes it easier to get the "solid feel" that many people consider nice. A smaller knob like 1.5" would have to be very thick to get heavy enough to give such feel, and in particular when made of aluminium.
Magura:) |
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| Peter Daniel |
I also need 2" knob (exactly like in a picture), but as I mentioned, it's only good for specific applications and can't be used everywhere. Even the old Pioneer knobs, which seemed pretty large, are only 1.8" in dia.
Most of the knobs that I put on my equipment are 1 - 1.3", never more. Big knobs are out of style these days. Did you ever seen anything big on Pass Labs units? But Threshold preamp knob was close to 2" in dia. ;) I just don't find it that appealing anymore. |
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| Magura |
Hey Peter, now that you mention fashion. What kind of knobs are in fasion right now? How have they gotten around the big knobs for the stepped attenuators and so forth??
Magura:) |
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| Variac |
Good knobs aren't cheap, There has been ongoing discussion about how hard it is to get really nice knobs. It's also not that east t omake then really nice and anodize them. I guess PEter has finally cracked that problem.
I am assuming that the final price will be somewhat lower.
Stepped attenuators just have to be a lot nicer with bigger knobs.
Especially the Shallcos I just got- they are plenty stiff.
Peter- perhaps you could show us a few hot candidates and their
price for about 50 |
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| PHilgeman |
| Sounds good guys, I am open to all options. |
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| PHilgeman |
Ok, I will explain how I came up with the cost since people are doubting it.
The cost from the manufacturer is 2-3 USD. After packaging and shipping that puts them in the US at 4-5 USD.
For the large, the highest expected price from the manufacturer is 8 USD, so that would put them in the US at 10-12 USD due to the higher weight.
I am sorry if you cant spend 8.75 or whatever the final cost plus shipping comes out to, but for that price to your door, there isnt much nicer in the US.
These arent simply cut aluminum, they are double anodized with a very nice satin finish.
If someone wants to organise a GB in other countries, go right ahead.
-Paul Hilgeman |
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| planet10 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Peter Daniel
The 6.5 mm |
I've mesured many a vintage knob for 1/4" shafts and they have 6.5mm holes.
dave |
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| uvodee |
| quote: | Originally posted by PHilgeman
Ok, I will explain how I came up with the cost since people are doubting it. The cost from the manufacturer is 2-3 USD. After packaging and shipping that puts them in the US at 4-5 USD.
These arent simply cut aluminum, they are double anodized with a very nice satin finish. -Paul Hilgeman |
Dear Mr. Hilgeman
Please let me explain my view....
1) imho 2$ or 3 $ knobs are ofcourse possible, however if these knobs would come from India they would be priced 20 or 30 cents, anodized, double anodized or even triple anodized.
2)I agree that per knob the shipping and packaging could be 2 $, if you ship 50 that would substantially go down as you know.
3) I am trying not trying to stop this group buy, I just would like to stay realistic.
4) The difference between of the shelf and custom made for India made products seems too far off inthis case.
By the way, when I was in Bhopal, I drove a BMW that was made from a Toyota Crown :) true!!!!
just my 2 cents.
Jean-Pierre |
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| tcpip |
| quote: | Originally posted by PHilgeman
Ok, I will explain how I came up with the cost since people are doubting it.
The cost from the manufacturer is 2-3 USD. After packaging and shipping that puts them in the US at 4-5 USD. |
I think I'll explain the figure behind the USD 2-3 that Paul has mentioned.
I've paid a specific amount for these knobs when I picked up a few; that price is mentioned here. Incidentally, this post was done long before the group buy idea was suggested. If anyone thinks they can arrange the same knob at less cost, please let's drop this group buy and shift to the alternate source instead.
Now, the price I paid will not be applicable to this group buy because the ex-stock knobs are not suitable for North America --- you guys need a 6.5mm shaft diameter. A separate lot of perhaps 50 knobs will have to be made to order for you guys. I expect that the manufacturer's price for this custom order will be double of what he charged me for the ex-stock pieces. Hence the USD 2.00 or so estimate for it. Packing in India and shipping costs will be less than USD 1.00 per knob. The shipping costs have been specified in full detail here. Here again, if any of you has a cheaper option, please take responsibility for arranging shipping through it. We'll be only too glad to work with you.
Thus, when the knobs reach Paul, they'll cost him USD 3.00 or so. Then he adds the domestic shipping and re-packaging costs, plus his Paypal charges.
Any remarks about usable anodised knobs being available in India of 25mm diameter for 20 and 30 cents is, to put it mildly, a wilful distortion of facts as I know them. It is perhaps possible if your uncle runs a lathe machine in his spare time and your aunt runs an anodising shop with spare capacity. I may not be very familiar with India, having spent merely 38 years here, but in my limited knowledge, I don't see how any commercial manufacturer will give you a well-finished Al knob for less than Rs.40 in large quantities, or Rs.70-100 if it's made to order in small batches as it's being done in this case.
The large knobs will easily be three times as expensive, because the lot size will probably be tiny (20 knobs?)
I am not interested in hearing opinions about how India/China/Taiwan is so much cheaper and how the current prices of this group buy are too high. If you feel this is the case, please bring up an alternative source of knobs at those oh-so-cheap rates. If anything, I feel that Paul's prices may be on the lower side... he has not factored in Customs Duty at the point of entry to the United States. |
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| PHilgeman |
My thoughts Exactly!
Thanks!
-Paul |
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| Magura |
| quote: | Originally posted by tcpip
If anything, I feel that Paul's prices may be on the lower side... he has not factored in Customs Duty at the point of entry to the United States. |
If those quotes are not including customs there are a whole lot of other options available for that price. To get them into europe you can add approximately 25 to 35% according to where you live. For that price you can have them made in europe at pretty much any machine shop. If the required number is getting up around 100 pcs., lots of shops would be interested in making a good offer.
Plus the fact that you wont have to fight the customs to get the ithems into the country...it sure makes things a little easier.
A side remark: As far as im concerned there is no such thing as double anodizing....but thats a different story ;)
Magura:) |
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| Peter Daniel |
I too, asked my supplier, and they never heard about double anodizing. There is another anodizing process, which makes aluminum surface as hard as steel, but it's never used on audio equipment.
If anyone wants knobs in a hurry, ApexJr has some available at low prices.
http://www.apexjr.com/knobs.htm |
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| PHilgeman |
I just saw those a minute or two ago.
Indeed, cheap, but VERY TALL :)
I also contacte PartsConnexion about a group buy, but all they give me is a 20% discount.
I contacted the supplier of the knobs in the UK, but they havent gotten back to me.
Maybe I will look at some local metal companies, but I am guessing they wont do it, or will say it is 10 bucks each.
-Paul Hilgeman |
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| Variac |
Yes, I got the Apex jr big knobs YES they are TALLL really tall.
Would work with an extender, but might put way too much stress on a pot. They are so tall you need to cut a big hole in your front panel. I think the 1" are a better choice. They are a dark grey not black. Quite nicely made but not the very highest end. . No complaints, Apexjr is the best!!!
It is always a good idea not to tell others what their country is like-even if you lived there. ;) Let's get the final quote and then just decide. If you follow the India threads, you will see that the DIY guys there pay a lot more than you would think for stuff. If the final price doesn't work, then we move on. It doesn't help for people to go on about how cheap the guy down the street will do it without actually checking and getting a firm price. AND seeing that they really can produce the quality we need. Otherwise it is just talk, talk talk. There is shipping and duty from Europe too I'd imagine...
Peter: Since you have the contacts Could you at least show us say 1 to 3 typical hi end knobs and their prices? I know that it requires you to tlak to your supplier a bit, but otherwise how will we know? |
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| PHilgeman |
Thats the plan.
Like I said, we will hopefully know more about the prices soon.
If the prices arent that great and noone buys, so be it.
Have a good one |
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| Peter Daniel |
| quote: | Originally posted by Variac
Peter: Since you have the contacts Could you at least show us say 1 to 3 typical hi end knobs and their prices? I know that it requires you to tlak to your supplier a bit, but otherwise how will we know? |
I'm having trouble with my computer. I picked up some warm virus and have to figure out how to get rid of it. At the moment I'm opearting from laptop and it has more lilited functionality in pictures attaching. I will definitely post some picks later, but from what I know so far, it doesn't really matter what design it is, the price will be more or less fixed with larger quantities. It shouldn't be more than $15 and if I won't be making any money on that it might even go down to $12 ;) I don't really want to make mone on knobs, as I need some of them myself for my GC amp.
You can browse the picks of high end gear and make some choices as well. The more suggestions, the better. Here's the knob I like a lot, it fits perfectly between the fingers and is particularly good with the switches (for volume). I fing it the most suitable on my TVC preamp. I also see it with othe requipment (CAT and Lamm for instance). |
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| planet10 |
I've got some knobs real similar to that last pic by PD... off an old Onkyo A7. Also the same shape in brown bakelite.
dave |
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| Variac |
The prices might be more or less the same for similar sizes,
but if people truly want 2" I'm sure they would be more |
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| tcpip |
| quote: | Originally posted by Variac
I have been following the Indian threads, and it is really exciting how you guys are discovering supplies in little shops all over which will allow you to create your own Indian equipment. The global economy now pretty much make those of us in the US have access to almost any parts, but we all end up with pretty similar stuff sometimes. |
Actually, today, we in India are probably as much a part of the "global economy" as those in the US or Europe. Even though foreign exchange is controlled by our central bank, each citizen can legally buy and spend upto USD 25,000 per year on pretty much anything he chooses (including investing in assets overseas), and it's easy to get international credit cards which work anywhere in the world, but are repaid in rupees. I've ordered stuff from Digikey, Amazon, and Barnes and Noble sitting here. The only problems we in India face are:- The local demand for things like DIY audio components is too small, hence there are often no retailers in India for many common things, e.g. imported speaker drivers or capacitors, and
- When we order from retailers outside India, the shipping costs are killing. Sometimes, the Customs duty is ad hoc and pretty steep too.
Many of us would have given an arm and a leg to have a Madisound India Pvt Ltd, selling across the counter or by mail order in Indian rupees. Sigh..... :(
C'est la vie. All in all, we still have fun. :) |
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| Variac |
Very interesting- I could tell there was a problem , just didn't understand it. I remember from some thread someone discussing how there are many many customs inspectors with many many catalogs of products. Apparently hard to fool them!!
I guess it's up to you to start a little business out of your apartment ;) Cases, knobs, components, drivers, transformers.
It seems like they all exist somewhere in India- It's just a huge scavenger hunt to track them down. It also seems like the big companies don't want to bother with the DIY crowd?
Anyway it's interesting to me....
Mark |
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| corbato |
| quote: | | Many of us would have given an arm and a leg to have a Madisound India Pvt Ltd, selling across the counter or by mail order in Indian rupees. Sigh..... |
Things are picking up and hopefully we Indian DIYers will get to see the glory days of '70s really soon. Insha Allah :)
Back to the Knobs. A manufacturing cost of U$ 2 is very competitive. Just to put things in perspective this simple knob at RS is GBP 5.4 each. I was planning to buy this before I chanced upon this thread.
Round AL raw stock commands a premia at times. Then you add setup, tooling, inventory and post m/c costs. From the high quality finish of Uncle Harry's knobs, it seems he is using SPM's. He is able to produce repeatedly to same spec.
Those Apex Knobs are nice, but not half as good as the ones being discussed in this group buy. I will gladly take at least 5 for my immediate need. And I know the costing pattern in India.
Anodising for all practical purpose is accomplished at one go. A subsequent and/or immediate re-anodising would not add anything unless the preceding stage was done ok. But I have seen that re-anodising does spruce up things, particularly if done after a few days. I think Harry does that too.
Meanwhile. lets us just admire Uncle Harry's knobs again:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/attachment.php?postid=337325 |
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| Variac |
| quote: | | hopefully we Indian DIYers will get to see the glory days of '70s really soon. |
It seems that way- quite exciting. Michael Percy is a major supplier of components in the US. and I think he works out of his house. In India , it seems you need some shop that maybe as as an adjunct to other activities can collect premium parts in one spot. The larger Indian manufacturers would probably be willing to work with someone like this. I hope it happens!
I agree the Apex knob are not intended to be, nor are they, up to the highest standards. They are also surplus and not a continuous supply.
a high quality 1" dia. machined and anodized knob from Digikey is over $5.
I suspect that when the talk dies down and people actually show what they can find, and the prices, and like sized knobs are compared, that "Uncle Harry's Knobs"
(Catchy brand name ;) ) will be quite competitive.
As you have mentioned, shipping is expensive, which is a legitimate reason that his knobs might not be competitive. |
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| uvodee |
But I had problems ordering from OKW a few weeks ago....
my guess is that for 2 knobs it is bothering them.....
or just had the wrong sales person on the line.....
and the price is very very interesting! and theoretically you can order per piece......
J-P |
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| tcpip |
| I believe members from the US have mentioned Kilo Int'l in this thread. I have zero knowledge about them, but others have commented that they're tired of making do with the Kilo knobs. Whatever that means. More details would be interesting. |
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| tcpip |
I checked the two sites. The Kilo knobs are not sold by them directly, it seemed. You'll have to find a distributor who stocks what you want. Could you find any? Their "Distributors" Webpage is blank.
And I checked the OKW pages, and found that the only range of knobs which looks good on traditional Al front panels are probably the ones they call "Aluminium cap tuning knobs". These have a plastic body and a thin Al cap. Comparing such construction with a solid Al machined and hard anodised knob is like comparing a Yamaha amp's chassis to what Peter Daniel makes. The finish too didn't seem anything remarkable, and the shapes were pretty straight-laced. And they're charging more than USD 4.00 for a 1.5" knob. If you find this kind of knob value for money, I guess this group buy will be unbelievably inexpensive. :D
I'm not saying that you shouldn't buy their knobs... all I'm saying is that their knobs are not in the same league as the ones we're trying to order here, but they're almost as expensive. |
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| Variac |
The OKW are all pretty cheap looking. I guess they are functional, but not what most around here want.
I believe that digikey has knobs that look a lot like the Kilo ones
They might be a distributer. Those are the ones I mentioned in a previous thread that are almost $6 ea. for the 1" an old catalog of mine |
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| tcpip |
| quote: | Originally posted by Variac
The OKW are all pretty cheap looking. I guess they are functional, but not what most around here want. |
And guess what? Go through the OKW 19" enclosures page here, and see what prices they charge! :bigeyes:
I'm getting my 19" 2U enclosures at something like USD 45-50 each from Dinrack in Bombay, with cutouts done as per my specs. I think Hammond, Par-Metal, Lansing, are all roughly as expensive, or a bit more, than my Indian prices, and are much less expensive than OKW, which seems to charge USD 150 for a 1U, 14" depth enclosure. Boy! Who buys them? :) |
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| Variac |
| People that need "Unique Comfort Handles" |
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| uvodee |
Originally posted by tcpip [/i]
I believe members from the US have mentioned Kilo Int'l in this thread. I have zero knowledge about them, but others have commented that they're tired of making do with the Kilo knobs. [/QUOTE]
Imho they are quite nice actually, a bit dull but you can find them easily in many stores.
| quote: | Originally posted by tcpip
I checked the two sites. The Kilo knobs are not sold by them directly, it seemed. |
1) Kilo knobs is a manufacturer not a retailer.
[/i] And I checked the OKW pages, and found that the only range of knobs which looks good on traditional Al front panels are probably the ones they call "Aluminium cap tuning knobs". These have a plastic body and a thin Al cap. [/QUOTE]
Imho ' les gouts et les couleurs se ne discuttent pas' des femmes inclus:)' meaning what You like may be completely different to waht some one else likes! Have you ever seen a Quad 303 or 33... designs that are truly timeless to me but my wife thinks they are the ugliest hobby boxes she has ever seen...........
I had a girl friend back in Belgium in the early 90's.... she saw an Alessi 'Design' waterkettle and thought it was a sex toy......... and when I gave her an Alessi toothbrush she said it reminded her of a brush to clean the toilettes and bought a Colgate one herself! what poor taste in my eyes.....
[/i] Comparing such construction with a solid Al machined and hard anodised knob is like comparing a Yamaha amp's chassis to what Peter Daniel makes. The finish too didn't seem anything remarkable, and the shapes were pretty straight-laced. And they're charging more than USD 4.00 for a 1.5" knob. If you find this kind of knob value for money, I guess this group buy will be unbelievably inexpensive. :D[/QUOTE]
Again I hope you are talking for yourselve.
[/i]I'm not saying that you shouldn't buy their knobs... all I'm saying is that their knobs are not in the same league as the ones we're trying to order here, but they're almost as expensive. [/QUOTE]
Thank you for letting me decide for myself.
| quote: | Originally posted by Variac
The OKW are all pretty cheap looking. I guess they are functional, but not what most around here want.
I believe that digikey has knobs that look a lot like the Kilo ones
They might be a distributer. Those are the ones I mentioned in a previous thread that are almost $6 ea. for the 1" an old catalog of mine |
I think that the A1016068 + the A1104003 are a beautiful combination as a knob, truly stylish and probably based on Itallian sources such as Alessi I think I will give it another shot to get these things and also the b5011407 enclosure, I am looking into the pdf drawing as we speak to see if the heatsink might be a problem.
| quote: | Originally posted by tcpip
And guess what? Go through the OKW 19" enclosures page here, and see what prices they charge! :bigeyes: |
for this type of look, it is actually not expensive at all, I have some knowledge of rack material that is much much more expensive. Try to imagine what a bronze shaded mirrored door with brass frame for a 84 U rack unit costs....(installed one myslef in Brussels!) more than a snow mobile!
[/i] I'm getting my 19" 2U enclosures at something like USD 45-50 each from Dinrack in Bombay, with cutouts done as per my specs. I think Hammond, Par-Metal, Lansing, are all roughly as expensive, or a bit more, than my Indian prices, and are much less expensive than OKW, which seems to charge USD 150 for a 1U, 14" depth enclosure. Boy! Who buys them? :) [/QUOTE]
haha! I buy enclosures (not for rack mounting) from Par-Metals and they seem cheap to me, around $35.
As for the 19" enclosures, the $45 is not cheap at all..... for basic rack use ... that's the common price if you buy from a catalog.
J-P
and according to a friends that does outsourcing for AT&T , they think that India is good quality but has to be cheap!!!!! India made products should be at least 470 pct cheaper than Washington and 500 pct cheaper than East states..... but I just quote him |
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| corbato |
| quote: | | les gouts et les couleurs se ne discuttent pas' des femmes inclus |
Exactly. Those who see value in Harry's Knob will go for them. Other will obviously look elsewhere. No need to increase bandwidth/post count by unnecessarily commenting on relative merit/demerits if you are not interested as is clearly evident.
The organiser of this GB will be well advised to quickly arrive at a final cost so that who are interested can reach a conclusion. I'm sure they will be a contented lot once Harry's knobs reach them.
No disrespect meant. |
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| tcpip |
| Just curious... I was looking at this page and from there, I went into a details page showing Al-finished knobs. And I found that all the knobs in this series have only 6mm shaft diameters. See here for the dimensions and details. Does this mean that there are plenty of pots available in North America with 6mm dia shafts? |
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| ashok |
| quote: | | and according to a friends that does outsourcing for AT&T , they think that India is good quality but has to be cheap!!!!! India made products should be at least 470 pct cheaper than Washington and 500 pct cheaper than East states..... but I just quote him |
With due respect to everyone , the person who made such a statement must belong to colonial times.
In India Aluminum is expensive and so is electricity. If one wants to live a decent life and have ones own home and transport , it IS expensive ....may not be as much as the US but it IS expensive.
So if buyers want parts at 470% less , the worker who turned them must live in a hole in the ground and eat once a day and have no electricity amongst many other necessities!
Wake up man ( the ones who make such statements!) . This is 2004 , everyone should get an opportunity to live a decent life and make a decent profit from his business.
Cheers. |
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| Magura |
| quote: | Originally posted by ashok
Wake up man ( the ones who make such statements!) . This is 2004 |
Same to you!!!
Nobody said anything about things being cheaper in india, but fact is that 500% cheaper is not completely off target.
The shipping and customs plus the lower average quality taken into account, you have to get things more or less for free.
To get a 12 USD knob into EU you will be charged minimum 15 % duty and 16 to 25% VAT of the price(including shipping wich you also pay duty of) of that.
So you end up around 20 usd (counting an average of 3USD shipping for each knob) for a knob. For that price you can get any knob youd like made in any machine shop.
Magura:) |
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| Variac |
This will certainly become a quotable thread when people want to
point out what idiots we are. A discussion about knobs becomes
an emotional issue. :rolleyes:
Perhaps the price is too high to be worth your time, but there is an underlying implication that someone is profiting unreasonably
from this. Let's not be know-it-alls on every subject and just accept this, and not tell others that they don't know what the situation is in their own country. QUALITY stuff isn't always cheap in countries with cheap labor. Distribution, raw materials, industrial processes, transportation are often expensive and inefficient.There is often a lack of trained people who can do the work.
If I can have a few knobs made by going to a machine shop or pay somewhat less to order an existing knob and have them delivered to me, I'll go with the delivered product.
MAgura, you have good shop connections, not all of us do.
Clearly you should have your own knobs made - no problem just do it. This is a group buy- not an export business. |
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| Magura |
| quote: | Originally posted by Variac
MAgura, you have good shop connections, not all of us do.
Clearly you should have your own knobs made - no problem just do it. This is a group buy- not an export business. |
I figured its a group buy a while ago ;)
I frequently make a set of knobs, but i usually dont do stuff like that for buisness, its more to get a set of knobs that fits an exact purpose.
What im getting at is that if people want knobs, do a "heads up" before you order something from a country thats on the "black list" customs vise.
If you guys could sort out how many you want, id be happy to help you out on no profit basis. I dont bother making them, but as Variac pointed out, im well travelled in machine shop matters.
Im 100% sure you can have them made in Denamark and avoid the customs pretty much, plus lower shipping to both europe and the states, and end up with a better price and quality.
Magura:) |
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| Peter Daniel |
Let's get serious. Which style do you like the most?
As I mentioned before, I could produce them pretty cheap and we might even be able to ship those knobs to India and still be competetive;) |
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| uvodee |
EOMMMMMMMMM..................
J-P |
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| ashok |
Peter ,
That looks great. I might be interested too.
I will follow it up offline.
Cheers,
Ashok. |
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| leadbelly |
| quote: | Originally posted by Magura
If you guys could sort out how many you want, id be happy to help you out on no profit basis. I dont bother making them, but as Variac pointed out, im well travelled in machine shop matters.
Im 100% sure you can have them made in Denamark and avoid the customs pretty much, plus lower shipping to both europe and the states, and end up with a better price and quality.
|
For some reason, it is just not sinking in: leave this group buy alone. You are taking a positive thing, your offer to run a group buy, and making it a negative thing by trying to sabotage this group buy. Take a look at the wiki page: it seems that more than one group buy is possible :) |
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| PHilgeman |
Peter, count me in, those look way better, and there dosnt seem to be enough interest on this thread.
-Paul |
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| PHilgeman |
| I like the 4 on the right. |
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| Variac |
Hey Peter, can we order a custom shape?
how about a knob like the Classe ,(3rd from left) but flattened on both sides
like the ML that are your favorites. (6th from right?) The flat center part would be wider than your favorites. It would have more grip than a round knob so it will work with switched attenuators, yet has a more round overall shape so it works as a round knob also
Again , in order to work with the switches, I think about 1.25" dia.
would be perfect. I agree that the Classse are a little too long
- they shouldn't stick out as much.
If you can do custom I can whip up a sketch.
It would be quite nice to have a DIYA knob
Hey!! DIYA is a good name for the amp? |
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| S.C |
| quote: | Originally posted by Variac
Hey!! DIYA is a good name for the amp? |
Sorry to say that, it is only a custom knob, but no DIY. :bawling: |
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| tcpip |
| quote: | Originally posted by Peter Daniel
As I mentioned before, I could produce them pretty cheap and we might even be able to ship those knobs to India and still be competetive;) |
Very nice looking knobs. As always, your sense of aesthetics is top class. :) I also looked at the chassis group buy thread, and saw all those pictures of knobs. You can write an encyclopaedia on just knobs. :)
I was curious... will you be making them yourself or will you be getting them made at a professional workshop? I'm basically curious to know whether professional workmen will need to be paid for their effort and whether charges for the use of machines will need to be paid. Just curious. :)
And also, what would be the price at which you could sell, say, 25mm dia clear Al anodised knobs, if the total order size was, say, a hundred? |
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| Peter Daniel |
| quote: | Originally posted by Variac
Hey Peter, can we order a custom shape?
Again , in order to work with the switches, I think about 1.25" dia.
would be perfect. I agree that the Classse are a little too long
- they shouldn't stick out as much.
If you can do custom I can whip up a sketch.
|
It will be a custom knob and any shape/size is possible
| quote: | Originally posted by tcpip
And also, what would be the price at which you could sell, say, 25mm dia clear Al anodised knobs, if the total order size was, say, a hundred? |
I made some preliminary taking and the price is approx $12-15, depending on quantity, it may be less than that.
I'm very tempted to order2 types of knobs, one classe , one ML style (with at least 40 pcs of each). As to the big, 2" knobs, I really like this one. It is from ML380 preamp and currently, there is already demand for at least 15 pcs of those, as people re building that preamp (from the boards purchased over the internet). |
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| fcel |
Peter,
Where do I sign up to get in the order for the ML knob? i.e. the picture that you just posted - the ML 38 pre-amp vol. knob. I want to order 1. |
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| Peter Daniel |
If someone knows how to set up a Wiki page, we could make it for 3 styles of knobs:
2" ML style
1"Classe style
1"ML
All those knobs will be slightly different, so there shouldn't be any copyright infringement issues involved; two of them are out of production anyway. Also, one of the 1" knobs could be made slightly bigger (maybe 1.25"). |
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| Variac |
Early estimate of Indian knobs:
| quote: | I can give you some estimates though. This will be before shipping them out once they arrive.Small should be less than or equal to $5.00 each. Large should be less than or equal to $12.00 each.
|
Not to beat a dead horse, but these original prices for the Indian knobs are a hell of a lot cheaper than Peter's source.
I think Peter's COULD end up being the best choice because of a particular design or convenience, but $12 for a 1 inch knob is not cheaper than $12 2" knob or $5 1 inch knob
Peter was not strident about his being the best choice, but the implication by some was that any local US company could whip out premium knobs for $5, or huge ones for about $15
Now that prices have to be actually being closer to nailed down, I think the issue is more clear.
As I said, maybe the designs Peter can get are preferable or
so much less hassle to be worth it, but maybe the Indian supplier can make anything we want also. I admit that I am a bit biased in favor of the Indian knobs just because they would be unique, and it would be kind of cool to have a connection to the Indian DIY community, but it looks like there isn't a downside to them as they are also a LOT cheaper
Am I missing something?
:confused: :D :confused: :D |
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| leadbelly |
Variac,
You hit the nail on the head.
And I was even more interested in the idea of buying stock Indian knobs with 6mm shafts for even less! But we never got to that because of {insert disparaging comments about certain members here} :) |
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| Peter Daniel |
The material cost involved here is not an issue at all. It is the machining, and small knob isn't any easier to make than a big one (if not harder), same for finishing.
You can't beat $5 Indian knobs, but then again, they can't compare with more intricate designs. If somebody is for 2 knobs only, a bit of a premium paid for better appearance shouldn't be an issue. My price was a rough estimate, but I don't expect to get much lower than $10 per knob (and $10 per knob is certainly a possibility). |
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| Variac |
I don't think we know if they can compare with the more intricate knobs. It appears that the Indian supplier can make anything. Can he machine flats on the knob? we should ask.
I have looked at the pictures, and I don't see that their appearance is inferior.
Materials or not, do you really think a 2" knob will also be $12 from your supplier?
In Peter's case, it might be just too much of a complicating factor
for him to have to wait on knobs which he has no control over, which might keep him from getting his enclosures sent out.
I think a lot of us aren't getting his enclosures, so there are reallly 2 groups here... |
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| Peter Daniel |
I only meant the ones that were pictured. Drilling a mark hole after anodizing will make them look inferior.
$12 was meant for a big one.
No problem wit 2 group buys. |
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| Variac |
Peter, I think we have determined that the ones pictured don't work anyway because of the hole size.
I think you have come to a consensus in your other (chassis ) thread, which eventually is where your knobs should be discussed if we decide to have 2 orders. The consensus I see is like the older ML knobs but in a 1.25" diameter. I think it might be nice to have them a bit longer than the ones you showed. It looks like the newer ones are a bit longer and I think in that regard they look better. In either case the classe knobs are probably too long, I agree.
Why don't you get an exact price for a hundred of just this knob and report back pleeeese?:cannotbe: :cannotbe:
Mark |
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| Peter Daniel |
| I'll do that. |
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| uvodee |
| quote: | Originally posted by tcpip
And 38mm (1.5") knobs are available off the shelf here for less than a dollar each. I can send you samples. Unfortunately, their shaft diameters are all 6mm. The pots and rotary switches available here are all either 1/8" (3.18mm), or 4mm, or 6mm. Nothing more than 6mm here.
Tarun |
Ok, I have no clue any more of who is doign what but nevertheless, I would like to get some knobs for 6mm shafts AND 1/8" shafts......
1.5 " would ne a nice size FOR MY projects.
So please whomever this is, can you quote me your BEST price
for
4 knobs 38 mm (=approx 1.5" for shaft size 6mm)
AND
4 knobs ?? mm (for shaft size 1/8" = approx. 3.18 mm)
I pay Paypal (and will add 3pct extra for charges occuring at destination) out of my giving, caring hart!
(beware as a missionary in the USA I do not make a big income!!!)
It needs to be shipped to
Federal Way, WA 98003-6612 USA
one little detail
shipper's info MUST contain the following
Shipper
Jean-Pierre Scherer C/O ( and here you fill in the shipper's name such as Asho, Vishnu, Parkeel or any ones, floowed by the shipper's address etc etc...
Make me an offer as requested, I suppose that for of the shelve units, it should not take too long.
Thank You
Maybe this way we can do smooth business and |
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| Variac |
Dear Mr Uvodee,
I think you aren't getting a response because you continue to assume that Mr. TCPIP is in business try to sell you knobs, and make a profit. I doubt very much if he has time to send individual orders to people here. He was trying to coordinate a group buy and act as an intermediary between the maker and us.
Perhaps I am wrong and if so I hope the deal works out...
:D :D Mark |
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| uvodee |
| quote: | Originally posted by Variac
because you continue to assume that Mr. TCPIP is in business try to sell you knobs, and make a profit. I doubt very much if he has time to send individual orders to people here. He was trying to coordinate a group buy and act as an intermediary between the maker and us.
Perhaps I am wrong and if so I hope the deal works out...
:D :D Mark |
I assume he is NOT making any profit and the proof is in the pudding...
I even offer him extra money due to the paypal charges and I do not want him to carry these charges as a sole person doing me a favor BECAUSE I assume he is not making any money!.
I just think that I would like the off the shelf knobs as stated .
If he asks me a favor to do something for him and I can do it out of Washington state, I will do so likewise... without making a profit!
I would like the knobs that is all I am asking.... off the shelf no questions no ammendments no 30 page questionnaire etc....
J-P |
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| Variac |
| Well said!! :o I am chastened |
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| uvodee |
I still like you!! :xeye:
| quote: | Originally posted by Variac
Well said!! :o I am chastened
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J-P |
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| tcpip |
| quote: | Originally posted by uvodee
So please whomever this is, can you quote me your BEST price
for
4 knobs 38 mm (=approx 1.5" for shaft size 6mm)
AND
4 knobs ?? mm (for shaft size 1/8" = approx. 3.18 mm) |
I presume this message was addressed to me. Your requirement is confusing. At the quantities you want, I can only arrange to send you whatever's available ex-stock. Therefore, I can certainly send you four knobs of the type pictured in this thread or I can pick up inexpensive off-the-shelf Al knobs available in Mumbai and ship them to you. All of them have 6mm shaft dias, as far as I've seen. The latter set is available in black and clear Al, and I don't think they look very good, but then looks is a matter of taste. However, I'd be hesitant to send you anything whose pictures you haven't seen. (These off-the-shelf knobs are not made by Mr.Valecha, incidentally.)
Under the circumstances, I am only comfortable sending you the knobs whose pics I'd posted. If you want exactly those, please let me know. The price for those will be about USD 1.00 each, and shipping will probably be another USD 12-15, for a set of four to six knobs. (The shipping cost per knob goes up rapidly if the quantity is this small.)
Please let me know whether you are interested. |
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| uvodee |
| quote: | Originally posted by tcpip
Under the circumstances, I am only comfortable sending you the knobs whose pics I'd posted. If you want exactly those, please let me know. The price for those will be about USD 1.00 each, and shipping will probably be another USD 12-15, for a set of four to six knobs. (The shipping cost per knob goes up rapidly if the quantity is this small.)
Please let me know whether you are interested. |
I AM VERY INTERESTED, SHIPPING SEEMS TO BE A VOLATILE COST BECAUSE SOMEONE MENTIONNED EARLIER THAT 1 KG WOULD BE ABOUT us$14 AND i CANNOT IMAGINE 8 ALU KNOBS WOULD EACH WEIGH 125 GRAMS (ALMOST 4.5 OZ)
BUT i WOULD LIKE THE KNOBS AS DESCRIBED AS FOLLOWS
Post #2
The knobs are made of what Uncle Harry calls "S1" grade aluminium, which takes anodising well, he says. They have a base diameter of 25mm, a top diameter of 22mm, and a height of 30mm. Their shaft diameter is 6mm. Each knob has one screw to grip the pot shaft. The knobs have been finished in what Uncle Harry calls "fine grain finish". This finish basically makes it take on a matte finish, and lose the metallic shine some of the Japanese manufacturers like Denon seem to be so fond of.
I would like 6 or 8 of these.
I already found a solution to get the knobs hold on to 1/8 shafts
( you gave me the trick in your answer in the other thread, thanks!)
You also mention the marked and unmarked ones. I prefer UNMARKED but will settle for marked if unmarked are NOT available.
Please let me know the total amount.
You are a very nice man, but !!!!! Do not, please do not worry about MY decisions. I do not intend to sue nor do I condone such philosophy. I insure myself or I blame myself.
Just use regular mail, I do not care about time etc..... I have so much time (remember I am a missionary) I can wait and wait and wait, much different from average Americans who want everything faster than fast. the only thing I don't like is "hesitating".
Also I am a bit affraid of parcelpost co's such as UPS, Fedex and DHL. I have had packages test positive for things that I did not order. And that is completely out of bounds here!
Thank You for your kind cooperation.
Jean-Pierre
" Melly Klistmas Mistel Lawlens" |
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| tcpip |
| quote: | Originally posted by uvodee
I AM VERY INTERESTED, SHIPPING SEEMS TO BE A VOLATILE COST BECAUSE SOMEONE MENTIONNED EARLIER THAT 1 KG WOULD BE ABOUT us$14 AND i CANNOT IMAGINE 8 ALU KNOBS WOULD EACH WEIGH 125 GRAMS (ALMOST 4.5 OZ) |
See shipping rates and other details here. This post was posted eight days ago, but somehow you and many others missed it. From this post, you can clearly see what I consider the weight per knob. Anyone who has said that eight knobs weight one kilo is grossly misinformed.
| quote: | | BUT i WOULD LIKE THE KNOBS AS DESCRIBED AS FOLLOWS |
Got it. You want the ex-stock knobs as pictured. I think Uncle Harry's inventory will have eight or ten more. I will get them for you. I'll also ask him to throw in his inexpensive plastic washers for whatever they're worth; use them or discard them as you see fit.
I can't accept Paypal... can't be bothered to set up an account with them. I'll ask you to send me something later, maybe, as barter. Today, I can afford to pay for eight knobs without going broke. (I buy them at Rs.40 per knob. A bottle of beer at a restaurant in Bombay costs me Rs.100 or so.)
| quote: | | You also mention the marked and unmarked ones. I prefer UNMARKED but will settle for marked if unmarked are NOT available. |
Noted.
| quote: | | You are a very nice man.... |
Thanks. Reciprocated. :)
| quote: | | Just use regular mail, I do not care about time etc..... |
I once sent some heatsinks to Randy Slone. They never reached. I suspect the Indian Posts. I'll try to send your knobs through some friend, let's see. Since you've given me the luxury of time, I'll try to find an inexpensive and reliable option, but will not send them by ordinary air mail unless you absolutely insist.
| quote: | | " Melly Klistmas Mistel Lawlens" |
If you say so... |
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| uvodee |
| quote: | Originally posted by tcpip
Got it. You want the ex-stock knobs as pictured. I think Uncle Harry's inventory will have eight or ten more. I will get them for you. I'll also ask him to throw in his inexpensive plastic washers for whatever they're worth; use them or discard them as you see fit.
I'll ask you to send me something later, maybe, as barter. Today, I can afford to pay for eight knobs without going broke. (I buy them at Rs.40 per knob. A bottle of beer at a restaurant in Bombay costs me Rs.100 or so.)
I'll try to find an inexpensive and reliable option, but will not send them by ordinary air mail unless you absolutely insist.
|
Seems that we are in business....
Thanks for the washers.
I do not want you to go broke, certainly not on me!
And don't drink any beer! Allthough I agree that it is safer than water!
I can send you whatever you can think of in return!
This is fun, seems that heaven just came a bit closer:)
J-P |
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| PHilgeman |
I am still ready and willing to recieve a group buy of knobs an dre-distribute in the USA. But there does not seem to be too much interest. I will start a new thread for people to e-mail me exactly what they want.
-Paul Hilgeman |
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| Variac |
Maybe you shouldn't start a new thread. We are about to decide here. If Peter decides to use a local supplier, he will start posting on the Gainclone Chassis thread again. If he ends up with the Indian knobs, then we will need to continue discussing here.
I am waiting for Peter to answer two questions, which I 'm sure he is working on:
1. What is the price for the knob design I claim is the winner(ML clone, 1.25" - maybe a bit taller.
2. How much time will it be before he needs the knobs to send out his kits?
If these 2 questions are answered, we can move ahead. Between this page and the other (India) knobs and parts page,
we have a pretty good idea what the Indian knobs will cost. We also know that the Indian knobs can match any design that Peter showed in his "Parade O' Knobs"
I think a third thread will make things even more difficult.
This one is named "Satin Knobs from India, and thats what we will continue to discuss!!!
:D :D :D |
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| tcpip |
| quote: | Originally posted by Variac
I am waiting for Peter to answer two questions, which I 'm sure he is working on: |
Actually, thanks to Jean-Pierre, I am hoping that one sample may reach Peter soon, if George says he'll be willing to carry the knobs. The courier charges to the US will probably be more than the cost of the knobs. So, I'm hoping I'll get away by just sending them to B'lore, and George can carry the stuff to the US. If that happens, then I'll ask Jean-Pierre to post one sample to Peter Daniel, so that he can determine finish quality etc. I am sure Peter will want to see a sample before he decides to do business with an unknown manufacturer from so far away.
In the meantime, if Peter can send one sample ML-type knob to Mr.Valecha (Uncle Harry) here, that'll be very useful to let him know what kind of finish and shape is expected. |
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| Variac |
Jean Pierre:
www.percyaudio.com has the Noble pot for 19.95
Maybe you could order it and have it delivered to where George will be staying or something.. If you find out that address, then you could tell Peter D the address and he could send a sample
Mark Levinson knob there also
Just some ideas....
Mark |
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| uvodee |
| quote: | Originally posted by tcpip
So, I'm hoping I'll get away by just sending them to B'lore, and George can carry the stuff to the US. If that happens, then I'll ask Jean-Pierre to post one sample to Peter Daniel, so that he can determine finish quality etc. |
That is exactly the way I see this thing evolving.
As a matter of fact, I had already informed Peter I was going to send a sample to him as soon as i get these knobs in.
J-P |
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| uvodee |
| quote: | Originally posted by Variac
Jean Pierre:www.percyaudio.com has the Noble pot for 19.95. Just some ideas.... Mark |
ideas but .....
this was the remark/question "I need a 50K stepped volume control similar to what I have on my exisiting preamp"
Well, I checked Percy's site and have the (today's) printed catalog in front of me but..... no stepped attenuator from Noble for $19.95. If that was the case, I would order a box!!!!! ;)
He has and I quote ' NOBLE Potentiometer: excellent low cost potentiometers, 27 mm square x 30 mm deep black metal case, 8mm threaded bushing mount, 6 mm solid round aluminum shaft, not detented, stereo, values 10K, 25K, 50K, 100K, 250K, ....US$ 19.95 (box of 60 US$14.95 each)
As far as I can see, the cheapest stepped pot costs us$169.. for mono and $249 for stereo (TKD ofcourse!) :bigeyes:
He has also Shallco and Elma Kits .
For Shallco example complete dual mono ladder L-Pad attenuator KIT with two 45 position switches and 176 Holco resistors, priced at US$ 273.00 and for mono I think it is us$136.50.
Without the resistors it is us$95.00 each
The Elma's are a bit cheaper. Price is us$155.50 BUT the atenuator is 24 steps for a dual mono L-Pad kit and 92 Holco H4 resistors.
I think that is a fair resume from what the Percy catalog tells me.
Jean-Pierre
If we are talking about regular good quality pots, I could go to Frys in Renton (only 20 miles away and I pass it on a regular basis) and pick up Alp pots from the hooks for less than 20$ but they only have blue colored type! |
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| Variac |
OK I'm pretty sure George means detented pots, Those are regular pots with a stepped feel not stepped attenuators. I think he knows that you can't get stepped attenuators for around $25 The quote from Michael Percy says the pots I mentioned aren't detented so I guess they aren't the ones. I'll check the others. Maybe George can speak up.
Some pot brands and models are of course more desireable than others- I'll keep looking around
Edit:
He has Alps "black Beauty" 50K for $35
In the past these were some of the most desireable soundwise. They are rare because they are no longer made. M. Percy says some are detented some are not. I assume you could request a detented one. It's more than Goerge wanted to pay by a bit though. |
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| Variac |
Hey Paul Hilgeman!!!!!
A sudden big interest in Satin knobs from India in the Gainclone chassis camp!
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/show...0964#post370964
There look to be plenty of people interested, we know how to contact Uncle Harry and get them shipped here. We know he is up to the job. Tarun (tcPip) has all the ordering info, and I suspect would be wiling to coordinate on that end. There is no doubt that the price will be a good deal, although the ML knob needs lots of machining
All we need to come up with is what design, and get a quote.
Peter seems to prefer the old Mark Levinson design. I think we came up with a diameter of about 32mm (1 1/4") Peter has offered in the past to measure his knob carefully so we can get
something quite similar.
A simpler cylindrical knob of about the same size with an indcator slot is another option.
All that's lacking is your good leadership to get this group buy going!!! Like setting up a Wiki page to guage interest?
Mark |
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| PHilgeman |
Hey,
Unfortunately, I dont know how to set-up a Wiki page.
Also, For the next month to 5 weeks, I will not have the time to organize this at all. I took on a few projects for others.
-Paul Hilgeman |
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