| jduncan |
I've just come off a terrible (and expensive) experience with making my own PCBs so I've decided to bite the bullet and get them fabricated for me.......Basically the price is $50 for setup plus $50 per set of boards that will work for an entire Aleph 4 (I guess it would also work fine for aleph 2's and with adaptations probably many other alephs). I'd like to get about 5 of us together so we could get the purchase cost down to about $60 each.
Anyone interested? |
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| BrianGT |
I would possibly be interested in this, assuming the design would work with the Aleph 2. Did you design the board yourself, or are you using an existing design? Can you post pictures of your board layout?
Thanks for sharing this with us.
--
Brian |
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| fcel |
I'll be interested if it can be used for Aleph 2. Thanks.
When you said "....... per set of boards that will work for the entire Aleph 4"......... you meant all the necessary boards to built a complete operating system? |
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| jduncan |
fcel: yes I meant all the boards you need to build one aleph 4 or 2 aleph 2 monoblocks (excluding power supplies....).
However, I've been offered a seperate board now from another source and I'm just going to go ahead with that. Provided everything works out fine I won't be needing to make this purchase anymore.
I apologise for this however there's no reason if a few people seem interested not to bulk buy the boards for yourself anyway so good luck!
Cheers,
Joe |
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| BrianGT |
Well, if anything changes, or if anyone else wants to go in on a bulk purchase of Aleph 2 boards, I would be interested.
--
Brian
gte619j@prism.gatech.edu |
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| fcel |
Joe,
Let's say if there are 5 of us who are still interested in the Aleph 2 boards, you'll help us to get it? In terms of who to contact etc ..... I see that Brian is still interested and me too.
And by the way, how much more would it cost to have the power supply board being made too? I would prefer to purchase all the necessary boards at the same time. |
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| jduncan |
fcel, of course......I can give you some pointers to a couple of decent priced companies (specifically the one I planned to use) and any other help you need.......
As for the power supply boards, I didn't include them as I don't plan to use a board for the power supply and since everyone's power supply is different, the few components that could possibly go on a board anyway aren't really relevant. That's why it's not worth doing. |
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| BrianGT |
I don't feel that the power supply board is relevent either. It seems like it would be different depending on configuration.
This seems like a viable option if we can get 3 more people in on this. I don't have the money right now to organize this, as I just bought 125 IRFP240s, and am seeing them on my credit card bill now... not to mention my college bill. I would gladly pay $60 for a set of boards for the Aleph 2.
--
Brian
gte619j@prism.gatech.edu |
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| BrianGT |
If anyone wants to do this, I would take two sets of boards for 2 pairs of Aleph 2 monoblocks. I talked a friend into wanting a pair of boards, since it would be a lot easily then etching boards.
If anyone else wants to do this, let me know and I can help organize this.
--
Brian
gte619j@prism.gatech.edu |
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| Wraith |
Well, it seems like every one wants to build the Aleph 2, and I am no exception. If the PCBs work for the Aleph 2, I would also be interested in purcahing a board (or two). :)
I am also curious as to which schematic is being used and if I could posiibly take a look at it before my final decision. Thanks. |
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| BrianGT |
Jduncan:
Can you post your design, so that others can use it to get boards made? Or you could e-mail it to me. I have the ability to read gerber files, or whatever format you have it in.
Has anyone else made Gerber Files for an Aleph amplifier, that would not mind posting them or e-mailing to me. I am interested in getting a bulk board purchase going.
--
Brian
gte619j@prism.gatech.edu |
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| jduncan |
The design I was originally planning on using is Wayne Sankey's. His PCB design is posted on the passdiy website.
Cheers,
Joe |
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| BrianGT |
That is the design I like the most. In what format were you going to give this to a board maker? Which board maker did you plan on using?
--
Brian
gte619j@prism.gatech.edu |
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| jduncan |
BrianGT: I was actually probably going to redraw the boards and send them in Gerber format. I since found another very cheap source for PCB's online which I can also send to you once I find the link, I'll get back to you on the couple of companies I would consider using now.
To everybody, I was offered a deal by another board member, macka, who I am in return doing a favor to. He has expressed that he would be interested in producing some more boards for other members here also at a reasonable price that would cover his materials, time, and shipping.
I'll let him post from here on, however I will also still get back to you with some of the best companies online to get them fabricated with.
Cheers,
Joe |
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| MikeZ |
| I too would be interested in a bulk board purchase, thanks |
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| BrianGT |
I am making up a board layout for the Aleph 2 based on Wayne Sankey's design posted in the PassDIY gallery. I am using the ExpressPCB program from ExpressPCB.com
The board should work for any Aleph, with different components.
I will post pictures and the cost when I finish.
This might be the best way to go.
--
Brian
gte619j@prism.gatech.edu |
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| Variac |
I too need a set of boards to produce a pair of Aleph 2 monoblocks.
I also am too lazy/busy/beginnery/to make them myself.
Please contact me if you are getting together a group-I'm in!
Mark Cronander
iguana@crozone.com
Howdy Brian |
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| fcel |
Brian,
We've got the 5 person that we needed. Tell me where to send the check. Thanks. |
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| BrianGT |
I am laying out the board now. It looks like if I use expresspcb, the price for just the main board comes out to:
$202 for 10, so $40.40 per person for 2 boards.
$327 for 20, so $32.70 per person for 2 boards.
Remember that this is just the main board.
That would get boards made and shipped out in 3 days.
I am looking for a cheaper place to get the boards made.
These boards are 2-layer, plate through holes, and no soldier mask or silkscreen.
If anyone else has another place in mind, then a place that offers single sided boards only would be cheaper.
I am going to speak to Prof. Leach on tuesday, and I will see where he gets his single sided boards made for the Leach Amp. He gets them pretty cheap and charges students $15 for two. They also have soldier mask, but no silk screening. I will see what he says.
I am thinking that it would be easiest to just get the main board done, then do point to point wiring for the rest. If I find a good deal through Prof. Leach, I will get the output boards done as well.
I will keep everyone posted. Assuming I go through with this, I can also ship out some matched IRFP240 units.
--
Brian
gte619j@prism.gatech.edu |
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| fcel |
Brian,
Output Board: I would definitely like to have the output board made too for a fee if that's not too much trouble.
Output transistor: Service manual says use IRF244, you indicated IRFP240. Are they pretty much the same? If yes, I would like to buy sufficient matched pairs from you for a pair of Aleph 2.
Thanks for all your hard work |
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| BrianGT |
For the IRFP240, that is what is recommended by others. It is the most commonly used transistor for DIY Aleph designs. The IRF240 is a TO3 version of the IRFP240, which is the plastic TO-247AC package. I believe that Mr. Pass recommended the IRFP240 in a couple of posts.
I will definately consider making the output boards, once I finish the main boards.
--
Brian
gte619j@prism.gatech.edu |
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| pengzy |
Dear Brain:
I too need a couple of Aleph boards.
So, if you finish this board.
Please count me in.
I am willing to share the cost of the boards.
Thank you for your effort.
Charles
:D |
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| fcel |
Brian,
IRF240 is the TO3 version ....... is this the metal case type? ..... if it is, it might not work with the output board (assuming you're using Wayne's) ....... and also how do you mount the TO3 onto the heatsink? .....unless you're planning on mounting them to some other metal and then to the heatsink ...... just wondering .... |
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| BrianGT |
The IRF240 is the metal case type, which basically went the way of obsolescence. The IRFP240 is the replacement used by most people. I have 125 IRFP240 units that I am matching this Friday. I should have some extra sets, as I just need 24 for myself, and 24 for a friend. I should easily have 2 more sets of 24. For matching, you need 2 matched sets of 6 per channel.
I initially wanted to get some IRF240, but since they are not widely available anymore (irf says they still make them, but no one has them), they were a lot more expensive. I think that only person who has a large collection of them still is Mr. Pass. I had some TO-3 heatsinks that I was considering using before, but I have since gotten better flat heatsinks, that I can easily screw the IRFP240 units to.
Another interesting case is the IRFM240, which is the same size as the IRFP240, but metal instead of plastic. The government uses these in high reliability applications. I priced these out from a few vendors, and they ended up costing $40 each.
--
Brian
gte619j@prism.gatech.edu |
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| BrianGT |
fcel, just to clarify, I have the same exact output transistors as Wayne Sankey used for his Aleph 2, the IRFP240.
--
Brian
gte619j@prism.gatech.edu |
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| Variac |
Hey, I am interested in keeping costs down, BUT if it costs me $4 extra to get thicker traces, thick substrate, ground plane (if that actually helps) screened componant labeling, etc I'm happy to do so. These are high end devices we are making after all.
I agree the power board is the least important- in fact I don't want one.
Really exciting that this amp will now happen!!
Mark |
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| BrianGT |
I have looked several places. All of them that I have found only seem to offer 2 layer boards and up.
The cheapest place that I have found, and I know a teacher at school who used it for some boards, is ExpressPCB.com
I am redesigning the board now, because I want to have heatsinks on Q1,Q2 and Q3. I also want some better routing. I am doing it with the ExpressPCB.com program now, and I can later redo it in a Gerber program, if another place is chosen. I should be done the layout tonight, and I will post it for others to see. That board will be a dual layer board, but so far, I have done all of the traces on one layer, so that I can use the same design for a single layer board, should I decide to do that. I am talking to Prof. Leach soon, and will find out where he gets his boards made. If the ExpressPCB route is taken, then the extra layer can be used for ground.
I am really interested in getting this done, as I am tired of waiting for someone else to do it :)
I am open to any suggestions. When I finish, I will post my layout for everyone to have, and get boards made on their own, if they choose so, and do not get in on the initial order.
I am pretty sure that I will just do the main board, as point to point wiring is pretty easy for the power boards, and the configuration that I am personally doing would require 4 boards of 3 output devices (3 per heatsink).
I can make a design for the output boards, and others can get an order going, when I finish this and have time.
I found out one more option today, is that here at Georgia Tech, they have their own board fabrication facility, so I might be able to bring them my gerber files and pay for the cost of materials and have a small run of boards made.
As for silk screening, it really adds to the cost, and due to the simple nature of the board, it really is not needed. A picture of the silkscreen layer will be available, for making the boards.
I will keep everyone posted.
--
Brian
gte619j@prism.gatech.edu |
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| BrianGT |
Looks like pcb-pool is located in Ireland, and apcircuits is located in Alberta Canada. This may be helpful to others in those countries, but it seems like higher shipping and more hassle from the US.
If you find any cheaper places in the US, let me know.
--
Brian
gte619j@prism.gatech.edu |
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| fcel |
Brian,
IRF244, IRF240, IRFP240, IRFM240 ...... wow ..... so many different type ..... I better start learning! Thanks. |
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| BrianGT |
Anyone interested in getting a set of Aleph 2 main boards, please e-mail me with how many you want and your contact information.
Please make the subject "Aleph pcb boards". I am trying to get an organized list, since it is a little difficult on the forum.
Thanks,
--
Brian
gte619j@prism.gatech.edu |
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| jduncan |
BrianGT:
OK, so APCircuits charge $25 to ship.......that's a bit, but over this many people isn't too bad given their other low costs.
Not sure on pcb-pool's shipping deal but their prices are VERY good also. ExpressPCB requires you use their own software and do not offer nearly as good prices as far as I can see. |
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| BrianGT |
I talked to Prof. Leach for a couple of hours today and found a local place that he uses for his boards. I need to make the boards in Gerber format. I have access to a version of Orcad layout. Does anyone know any simplier programs to use? I currently have the board layout made in the PCB express program, just to get a basic layout. Does anyone know an easy gerber layout program, similar to PCB express?
That boards from the place, Empire Electronics will be single sided with these options:
(anyone have any preferences? if not, I will use the same options as Prof. Leach uses for his Leach Amp boards)
Type:
FR1/CEM-1/CEM-3
Thickness:
0.5/1/2/3/4oz
Color:
Green/Blue/Red/Black
Silk screening is available.
This place should be pretty cheap, if I can get them to do a small enough quantity.
--
Brian
gte619j@prism.gatech.edu |
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| BrianGT |
Before I post my board layout, can someone make sure my schematic is correct. I put red dots on the connections, as there were none. I believe I have it correct.
I referenced this off the Aleph 4 circuit.
aleph 2 circuit
--
Brian
gte619j@prism.gatech.edu |
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| BrianGT |
one more question on the circuit:
Should C7 be across collector base, as shown in the Aleph 2 schematic, or should it be across collector emitter, as shown in the Aleph, 1.2, 4 and 5 schematic?
--
Brian
gte619j@prism.gatech.edu |
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| MikeZ |
| These would be my preferences: 4oz, green, silkscreened. Silkscreen may not be needed if they etch and leave the copper for lettering. |
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| jduncan |
you missed the connection of C10 with a red dot while marking other T connections.
Also, 4oz is VERY heavy (thick) copper......and pretty expensive too. |
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| BrianGT |
C10 is attached on the bottom, and not the top, right? I will add that connection when I get home.
As for the 4oz, I was just relaying the options. I would not think that boards would be made with more then 2 oz for the case of the Aleph.
--
Brian
gte619j@prism.gatech.edu |
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| BrianGT |
I spoke to Empire Electronics today, and they have a high setup cost, but the boards get pretty cheap.
The setup cost is $195, with you giving them the board file in Gerber data. He estimated that 15 boards can be fit one one big board.
Then the board cost:
$10 each for 15
$8 each for 30
It gets cheaper with more boards. This is for green boards 1 oz with soldier mask. The boards are the minimal cost, so they can be upgraded to 2 oz, or silkscreening for not too much extra.
That means for 7 people, the cost would be $50 a person for 2 boards. For 15 people, the cost would be $29 for 2 boards. For 30 people, the cost would be under $20 for 2 boards. Professor Leach purchased 100 leach amp boards, and his cost was $15 for 2 boards
Once you pay the initial setup charge, you can get boards made whenever you want again with no setup charge, since the board will be in the system. All that would be needed to be done is someone to call the place and order more boards.
I will post the board layout tonight, for people to look over and check. I will need some help making the board in Gerber format, or suggestions on what program to use. I am working on it in the PCBExpress program, and I have tried using Orcad Layout, but I haven't learned the program too well yet.
--
Brian
gte619j@prism.gatech.edu |
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| Variac |
Brian
Is there any choice for the substrate or whatever the fiberglass part is called. I would be interested in getting that thick to cut down on resonances. Also the screened layer is pretty cool if it is cheap and you don't have to do extra work.
Any of the options discussed are ultimately fine with me, so don't stress over our various requests. you are almost a saint in my opinion for keeping us in the loop so we benefit from this!
Cheap is always important if the quality is good!
It is cool that the set up charge is a one time thing. You are being very generous to not charge us anything additional, BUT in the future you could put a notice in the trading post and when you got enough orders get another batch and sell them for a modest profit. Or order and pay for a few extra this time. You know that more people will want some as soon as the order is finalized!
How many people have e-mailed you to sign up?
Mark |
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| BrianGT |
Variac:
As for the middle part, the choices are:
Type: FR1/CEM-1/CEM-3
There are different thicknesses. I will most likely get the copper 2oz, if the cost is not too much.
Once I have a finalized gerber layout, and starting the ordering process, I will find out how much more everything costs, and as long as the prices still stays reasonable (under $50 for 2 boards), then the extra stuff is great. I would prefer under $50 for 2 boards.
I have had 7 people e-mail me, so that is 8 people including me. I will probably end up charging what it cost me, plus a charge for packaging and shipping. I am not looking to profit on making some boards. I am happy, as long as I cover my costs, and don't get stuck with $200 of boards.
--
Brian
gte619j@prism.gatech.edu |
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| jduncan |
just a quick reminder.....that setup cost is high. If you're worried about shipping then you might want to consider something \like I specified earlier againsuch as www.apcircuits.com as this cost is much more than shipping would be.
Although, if you have like 15-30 people who cares, its cheap anyway right? |
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| BrianGT |
Joe,
The setup cost is high, but there are a few important considerations that lead me to pick them.
1) The board cost is the lowest that I have found yet.
2) I have actually seen boards made by them, the Leach Amp 4.5 boards, and they are high quality boards.
3) They are within driving distance of my residence. (15 min)
4) They offer 1 layer boards with a large variety of options.
My goal now is to get 15 people. This would bring to board cost to $40 or under each for 2 boards, including shipping to the individual people. I have had 2 people say that they will buy 2 sets if the final price is under $50. This would give me 10 sets of boards claimed.
We will see how this goes.
--
Brian
gte619j@prism.gatech.edu |
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| jduncan |
Brian: OK, sounds good!
If I hadn't pulled out of this with my other offer I would be in ;)
Let's see how it goes! |
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| paulb |
Add me to the list of possible purchasers. If you do end up going with APCircuits, let me know, they're here in town.
I can try to dig up other Canadian PCB makers if you wish; our currency is pretty favorable to you US folks. |
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| FBJ |
At first I was against joining you guys cause private joint efforts like this would discourage Mr. Pass from offering more complete or semi-complete kits.
But with the release of the D1 DAC and his statement of...."The circuit is difficult to render and we don't want to devote alot of enegry to supporting the people who can't build it without help. It's tough enough keeping up with the support demands for the simpler circuits." Maybe this will free up some of the Pass Crew time. Speaking with them at CES, they are a very hard working lot.
I would like now to be included in the purshase of the Wayne Sankey version PCBs of the Aleph amplifier. Just let me know were to send a check or money order.
I have also laid out an ExperssPCB board. But I have about 12 other PCBs ahead of the Aleph that I want done.
:) |
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| Nelson Pass |
Don't worry about me. My retirement is already
funded, and we aren't planning on making money
on the DIY stuff.
More to the point, we haven't figured out how..... |
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| Apogee |
Please add my name to the list for boards as well...
As far as making money on the DIY stuff goes...it seems pretty simple to me...
We need small Pass Labs stores across the country just like Radio Shack... They would offer real hifi equipment either pre-built or in kit form with knowledgeable staff as well as prematched fets, heatsinks and cases... Basically a fun place where anyone could go to either buy or build very cool stuff...
There must be a market for The Claw somewhere...perhaps as a skateboard ramp that makes bass...
I would think 1000 stores or so would do to start... (Just in case you are sitting around with nothing else to do...)
:) |
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| BrianGT |
Thanks a lot Nelson, for approving of this. There is no money making goal in this, just the rewards of DIY.
--
Brian
gte619j@prism.gatech.edu |
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| roddyama |
Hi Brian,
I sent you an email on the Gerber file conversion. It wouldn't be cheap but if enough people are interested it wouldn't too bad per board set.
It would be great to find someone that could do the conversion for the love of the hobby,... anyone?
Rodd Yamashita |
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| BrianGT |
I made a PCB layout from scratch:
I verified it with the circuit shown here:
Aleph 2 Circuit
I am still confused with C7. It is different in the Aleph 1.2, 4 and 5 circuit. It is from collector to emitter on them... instead of the configuration on the aleph 2 picture.
I made the pcb exactly as shown in the circuit diagram.
My labeling should be pretty straight forward for the output boards:
D - connects to the drain part of the board
G - connects to the gate part of the board (221 ohm)
S - connects to the source of the irfp240
s - connects to the source part, after the 1 ohm resistor.
I made this in PCBExpress, in order to make a layout that I was content with. I am working now to transfer the layout to Orcad Layout, so that I can make the gerber files.
Please make comments, and look for mistakes. I double checked it, but I might have made some mistakes, as I am still going over it.
One more thing, with the final gerber layout, I am planning on fattening some traces and spacing stuff a little farther apart. I probably will stick with the same layout of the components and routing, assuming that it is correct. Orcad Layout is not too bad, as I have all of the part libraries. It is just a lot more complex, and I am using only a fraction of the components. I did manage to make the circuit in Orcad Capture (pspice), and use their auto route, but that was for all of the components (12 irfp240). We will see how it goes.
I appreciate all comments on this matter, even negative ones.
Note: Q1, Q2 and Q3 are placed for use with heatsinks (digikey HS104-1-ND) and all the component measurements are for RN60D (dale) resistors. The large resistors are planned for 7 - Vishay RS2B - .5 ohm resistors. I labeled it R2B by mistake.
--
Brian
gte619j@prism.gatech.edu |
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| AudioFreak |
| quote: | Originally posted by Apogee
As far as making money on the DIY stuff goes...it seems pretty simple to me...
We need small Pass Labs stores across the country just like Radio Shack... They would offer real hifi equipment either pre-built or in kit form with knowledgeable staff as well as prematched fets, heatsinks and cases... Basically a fun place where anyone could go to either buy or build very cool stuff...
There must be a market for The Claw somewhere...perhaps as a skateboard ramp that makes bass...
I would think 1000 stores or so would do to start... (Just in case you are sitting around with nothing else to do...)
:) |
One problem I see with this is that given the extremely high price of any real commercially available hi fi equipment, very little of it would ever be sold in any such stores.... i do however see a place in the market of plans / schematics, kits, matched parts, HEATSINKS AND CASES !!!! etc etc etc etc.
PCB's are by far the most problematic part of practically any diy project where they are required and this alone would solve many of the problems that many of us encounter.
Somehow me thinks that Nelson wont be selling all his board layouts to us .... quite frankly, i cant blame him and i thank him for the ones he has made available to us .....
I think that when push comes to shove, any such venture would be best undertaken by a group of enthusiasts such as us with someone else managing the bank balance and the support of commercial developers such as Nelson would be of great service to us .... perhaps we could act as a reseller for passdiy.com and the legacy projects that still enjoy the spot light in the diy market today ....
Another advantage of such a venture would be that we may be able to secure devices that are nigh to impossible for most people to obtain .... anyone seen some 2SK389 Violets of late? :D
The idea has merit but it would take a great deal of time, money and support to get it off the ground....
I believe the primary reason why this would not be particularly appealing to Nelson as a business venture is that Nelson is in business to stay in business which means making money and the nature of our hobby does not make that a particularly easy thing to do as the number of diy projects in the market are more or less infinite.... mind you, anyone who with Nelson's approval went into business selling Aleph parts and boards would probably have steady business for many years to come ....
Just my 2cents. |
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| Variac |
I think Apogee was kinda kidding around.
But I've got a better idea: We call the organization
"The Church of Nelsonology" great tax advantages.
I would add to the other store features: coffee, junk food ala
Fry's, (esp. Haribo Gummi bears) Of course the shrine to NP
Lots of people sitting around talking about the projects the're gonna make real soon now.
I agreee that whatever features Brian gets, the board cost per pair shipped of $50 is about irrisistable.
:D |
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| roddyama |
It looks great Brian, just a couple minor items.
Q4 needs is missing a label
R13, 11, 17, 18, 19, 21, and Z5 could be aligned (esthetics only)
R14 could be moved over to align with R2, 15, 16 and C8 (again, esthetics)
All in all, it looks fine.
Rodd Yamashita |
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| fcel |
Brian,
I have looked at your layout and compared it with the Aleph 2 Service manuel. Here's my comments.
1. I guess you have renamed R5 (100K) to R6 to avoid confusion. The other R5 (10K) is located near the input.
2. I assumed you just know that C6 and C7 are not polarized ..... I don't see + sign. I don't know enough about the "right" connection for C7 ..... so other folks can comment on that.
3. I think you have mislabel R20 as R21. (the one going to the output board).
4. I think there is an error for the connection of R19. One side of R19 is connected to the transistor but the other side should be connected to R17. You show it connected to C10.
5. Also, your mislabel R21 (next to Q5 on board) should have one side connected to the same pin of Q5 as R19 and R21 legs. You might want to take another look at the layout on the upper right hand corner of the board.
6. Please label Q4 on the board. I'm assuming you do know what Q4 and Q5 looks like in real life ....... to orient the layout as what was shown.
That's all the comments I have. |
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| BrianGT |
roddyama: I labeled Q4, and the alignment is not really an issue now. This is not the final layout of the board. I am going to redo the board in gerber format in Orcad Layout, which I am working on now. Once this is done, I will post it when I finish.
fcel: Thank you for your input, I believe I fixed those problems. I was initially confused where the connect was to be made for R21 and C10, which triggered these problems. It should be correct now.
Overall, does the board layout and routing seem fairly solid?
--
Brian
gte619j@prism.gatech.edu |
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| FBJ |
Not to be critical BrianGT but I have about 40 different layout using ExpressPCB but you know red traces are the top layers and green is for bottom traces.
AudioFreak try Borbely Audio for the 2SK389. He sells them matched too. That is were I get mine from.
I think most DIYers have an idea of what their amps want to look like and don't want carbon copies of someone else amp. It may take some DIYers a little longer to finished their creation but it will be their baby, personality, or feeling at that monment. Just look at the gallery not many projects look the same.
Well Mr.Pass, you don't get off that easily. I figure you got loads and loads of Mosfets. I think selling them already matched would help alot of DIYers. Would have to sell off extras after buying too many.
Also ventures like we DIYers helping our selfs could free up your time for others things, like finishing the CLAW. |
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| fcel |
| Brian: You must have fixed the problems right after I print out a copy for checking. The routing and layout looks fine to me. |
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| BrianGT |
FBJ:
I like the color red much better for the layout, and I am not going to have the boards made by ExpressPCB, so I was just using it as a layout aid, since it is much easier to use then Orcad Layout. The red makes it easy to read. I actually had them all the neon green color, but it was harsh on the eyes. If I go with ExpressPCB, I will change them back.
Picture with green traces.. if you like green
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Brian
gte619j@prism.gatech.edu |
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| AudioFreak |
| quote: | Originally posted by FBJ
AudioFreak try Borbely Audio for the 2SK389. He sells them matched too. That is were I get mine from.
I think most DIYers have an idea of what their amps want to look like and don't want carbon copies of someone else amp. It may take some DIYers a little longer to finished their creation but it will be their baby, personality, or feeling at that monment. Just look at the gallery not many projects look the same. |
Thanx, just a couple of comments.
I know Borbely sells them, but i was trying to illustrate the difficulty by which to obtain these parts.... i am not aware of a single place in my entire country that sells violets and i know many others are in a similar position.
I agree totally that most DIYer's want there creation to be individual and i too am of that opinion but for most of us, quality heatsinks and cases or even the raw materials are often very difficult to obtain .... i'll be building a case for my XA/X-Aleph when i get around to it but i have to send the case 1/2 way across the country to get the anodising done .... quite frankly, the lack of access to resources does begin to get a little frustrating. |
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| fcel |
I'm not familiar with ExpressPCB or Orcad Layout or any others method ....... I'm just curious if this layout can be drafted on ACAD and somehow the production company can convert that into some other format to make the board.
Or ..... it may not even have to convert to anything ........ just "iron" this layout onto the bare raw board and pour "chemical" onto it ...... doing it the crude way ...... not so good looking ....... but can be done? |
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| FBJ |
Yes you are right AUDIOFREAK. I got about 8 projects that has been sitting around for nearly an year but I want to use really nice heatsinks and very good enclosures for them when I can get the money together.
But I am lucky I know people in the business and it's still aren't cheap.
:cool: |
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| Eric |
Hi Brian,
Put me down for 2 boards for the Aleph 2. I just sent you an e-mail.
Eric:) |
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| Apogee |
Hello all -
I was definitely joking about Nelson opening stores... Although having a reliable source for parts would be great! :)
Brian - The board layout looks nice. I have yet to check against schematic but will do so tonight. A couple of suggestions:
a) I would suggest mounting holes in each of the four corners unless you have some other plan for mounting...
b) Are you planning on a ground plane on the unused side of the board? I think it could be to our benefit...
That's all for now...
Thanks for all of your effort!
Steve |
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| BrianGT |
Apogee:
As stated, this is not the final board, I made it so that I can get a layout of components and routing that I liked. I am redoing it in gerber now, with better spacing, and mounting holes.
I have been trying to use Orcad Layout, but I think I will give this a rest and use Protel 99 instead. There is a free fully functional 30 day demo that you can get from their site. I also think they have a fairly cheap educational student deal, which I might get if I like it. It can export Gerber files.
I talked to Empire Electronics today, and will get exact quotes from them when the gerber files are done.
If anyone wants to draft up a board layout for the output transistors, I can send it to them along with the gerber format and get an estimate for those also interested. My preferred format for the output board would be to make it for 3 devices, requiring 4 boards for an Aleph 2. This would be the most versatile, and would work for other smaller Aleph projects. You can easily make the board so that you can tie 2 - 3 device boards together with a few wires. The cost for 2 small boards compared to one big one, is the same, if the total size is the same.
I will post the gerber layout pictures when it is done.
Please take some time and make sure that my layout matches the schematic correctly. I am pretty sure that it does.
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Brian
gte619j@prism.gatech.edu |
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| BrianGT |
Update on current status of pcbs and purchase:
I managed to download the free fully functional 30 day trial of Protel 99, which allows for the creation of gerber files. I have the board partially layed out. It is pretty easy to learn. It took me a couple of hours to learn about the functionality and layout about 20 components and wire them together. I am just copying the layout that I made with ExpressPCB.
People have e-mailed me asking for around 20 sets of boards. This is good. I might cap the order at 50 boards (25 sets). If you still want in on the order, e-mail me at: gte619j@prism.gatech.edu with the subject "Aleph pcb boards"
The cost most likely will be $50 for 2 main aleph pcbs shipped to you. They should be good looking boards. Once I get the layout transferred to gerber, I can send it to board manufacturers and get exact quotes on the price. Once I get these, I will put up a webpage with pictures of the layout and details on the price, and where to send money.
I am hoping to get the board finished tommorrow. I am taking off work to match 125 IRFP240 devices. I will post my matching yield, if anyone would like to also purchase matched sets of them.
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Brian
gte619j@prism.gatech.edu |
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| fcel |
| Brian: Do you also want us to email you if we want the matched transistors? I want one set ..... as I've mentioned a couple post back. |
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| BrianGT |
yes, drop me an e-mail. I will post the results tommorrow night and if I have two more sets left, I will offer them to people.
I figured $100 for 24 closely matched devices. That covers my cost, my time matching and shipping. (I dropped quite a bit of cash buying 125 devices).
I will post an excel spread sheet of the measurements of all of the devices, once i get them all matched.
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Brian
gte619j@prism.gatech.edu |
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| BrianGT |
Current status of the Aleph PCB order:
I spoke to some professors, and I have reworked the board for optimum layout, with 45 degree angles when possible. It also will be more symetrical. I am almost done with it, with Protel99, which will output in gerber format. I should have the cost of the boards determined on monday when I send them my board layout in gerber. From that point, I will post the cost and details. I have had 20 people express interest in buying a set so far.
As for the confusion of the C7, and the variations with other Aleph amplifiers, besides the Aleph 2, I asked Nelson Pass, and got this response:
"The value of the npn compensation cap pretty much depends on the placment. .001 for CB or .01 for CE."
This means that it does not matter if you put it from the collector to base, or from the collector to emitter, as long as you use the right value.
The board is looking much better then the last design with ExpressPCB. I will post picture once I finish it and debug it appropiately.
As for the matching of the Mosfets, I spent over 10 hours in the senior electronics lab, matching them, and I had an unfortuate problem of losing a bunch of measurements, due to my forgetting to save the spreadsheet. I have matched 72 of the 125 so far, and the results are very good.
Excel spreadsheet of first 72 measurements
I will get the rest matched next week.
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Brian
gte619j@prism.gatech.edu |
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| griff |
| any idea about costs to Melbourne Australia? i dont think it will work for me :( |
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| AudioFreak |
| Anyone in australia who wants / needs matched irfp240's is advised to hold off as i and andrew steele will be offering these late July or there abouts. |
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| AudioFreak |
| not at this point sorry. |
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| griff |
hmmm, maybe if i get them shipped to san fran, i could get a mate to bring them down to me......
count me out for the first shipment, but ill assume that you will be doing more in the future, so ill hold out till then, im just buying some new Seas tweeters for evaluation, use, and probably a few (7) AKSA amps. |
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| roddyama |
Hey guys, the USPS will deliver, to Australia, up to 8oz (14g) in 4-5 day via Global Priority for $9 USD. Here's there site.
http://ircalc.usps.gov/speed.asp?Co...inue&Contents=0
As long as the buyer pays the shipping, it's pretty easy and quick.
In this deal, the more the merrier, and the cheaper.
Rodd Yamashita |
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| griff |
not bad at all
Audiofreak - how much are u wanting for the matched IRF's?? |
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| AudioFreak |
| we must also consider customs duties payable for overseas shipments.... in australia it works out to about 15% on top of product + shipping cost and there is also the exchange rate which is not particularly friendly to us here ... so if a pair of boards was say US$50, then it'd be about AU$135 by the time they arrived here. |
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| AudioFreak |
| final cost is yet to be decided but should be under AU$120 for 4 sets of 6 plus postage. |
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| roddyama |
The $9 USD postage is good up to 2lb (56g). You just need to get a few of your mates together for a mass shipment. I know it doesn't get around the duty or the exchange rate, sorry.
Anyway, if your interested here's the USPS international shipping calculator.
http://ircalc.usps.gov/
Also, not to be presumptuous, it will be up to the sender to agree as well.
Rodd Yamashita |
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| BrianGT |
I can supply you with my gerber layout, and you can use it to get your own boards made.
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Brian
gte619j@prism.gatech.edu |
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| griff |
ATTENTION ALL THOSE IN AUSTRALIA
I have a mate in San Fran who operates 2 businesses, one out of sydney, one out of san fran, he is constantly going from one to the other, and always has empty suitcases on the way back. I am more then happy for people to get anything within reason shipped to him, he brings it back to me, and i redistribute around australia.
REMEMBER WITHIN REASON!
problem - if something happens in shipping, buyer takes all responsibility. |
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| AudioFreak |
| That could be considered tax evasion u know :D..... |
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| griff |
| i can live with that |
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| BrianGT |
I finished the board in protel99, which I can export to gerber.
I have looked over it once, but not too closely yet, so there might be errors. Please take a look at it and see if anything is wrong. I like this layout much better. It is much more symetrical and has 45 degree angled traces.
aleph pcb
Comments are appreciated.
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Brian
gte619j@prism.gatech.edu |
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| Variac |
Griff,
I assume your mate has an address in San Francisco.
If not, I live in S.F. and the boards could be mailed to me.
Maybe easier for Brian since I'm ordering a pair too.
MArk |
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| fcel |
Brian,
I've looked at the layout and here's my comments:
1. Should the output ground be tied to all the other grounds? How about 1 or 2 more ground holes on the trace for speaker ground or power supply ground connections?
2. Please add (& label) mounting holes for plus and minus 45V. Also, 1 or 2 more holes on the 45V trace for the wiring landing from the power supply capacitors?
3. Mounting holes for the board would be nice too.
4. Is there any way to label the small "s" with some other name? I somehow have this feeling that the small "s" and big "S" will be connected in reverse .......... just don't want accident waiting to happen ....... because we're all trying to get everything completed ASAP to get to the listening stage ........
This comment is unrelated to the tracing ........ I can't print out the whole board image on 8 1/2 x 11 paper. It shows probably about 1/4 of the board when I print it out. Does yours print out o.k.? |
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| BrianGT |
As for the new board schematic:
Aleph PCB
Please look over it and see if you found any problems with it.
There are a few things I have fixed, and will post a new picture later:
- Added mounting holes
- Added +Vcc, -Vcc and GND holes on traces
Please look over it and verify the correctness of the circuit, and give me any advice as how I could improve the layout.
This is pretty much the final layout for the boards that I am going to have made.
As for making the boards, most likely, they will have 1 oz copper, silkscreen, and soldier mask.
I will keep all of you updated on the current board status. I am sending the files off to the board place tommorrow to get an estimate.
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Brian
gte619j@prism.gatech.edu |
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| harvardian |
Brian,
How much of a premium is 2 Oz copper. Have you checked current vs width for all traced?
I'll take a gander at the layout...
Good work!
Dale |
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| BrianGT |
I will send the layout in to the place on monday, and get estimates for 1 and 2 oz copper.
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Brian
gte619j@prism.gatech.edu |
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| fcel |
| Brian: I still can't print the whole image .... did you have a chance to look at my comments I posted earlier this morning? |
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| BrianGT |
I saw your comments. I added the labels and the pads for vcc and gnd. I have not changed the small s yet. I am not sure of what else to call it.. maybe "z".
Any suggestions?
I have checked over the board a few times, and it seems correct.
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Brian
gte619j@prism.gatech.edu |
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| fcel |
| Brian: You have deleted the ground trace between the output ground and input ground... per my comment #1 ...... why? |
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| BrianGT |
The plan was just to run 2 ground wires to the board, one for the input side and one for the output side. The ground wire around the whole board got in the way of the voltage inputs.
The leach amp pcb is done with two seperate ground wires, and this should not effect circuit operation.
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Brian
gte619j@prism.gatech.edu |
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| BrianGT |
I put in for the quote today, and I made it for 2 oz copper and .093 thickness, which is thicker then the average board. This keeps the cost at $50 for two boards, including shipping. I will be making a list of people who e-mailed me and sending out more information to those people. If you still want in, e-mail me at: gte619j@prism.gatech.edu Once the order goes in, I will not be able to add more to the order. I will most likely put the order in tommorrow.
It will take two weeks to get the boards made.
EDIT: I quote includes silk screen and soldier mask for the board. The only other options I could have gotten were 4 oz copper and .125 board thickness, but that made the quote too much, and it really is not needed.
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Brian
gte619j@prism.gatech.edu |
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