| biteon |
fender4 thanks for posting my pic
xblocker
you were right. i tested last night and it didnt work out. the frensal in front of my tv worked better. thanks anyways
dose any one no a web site/etc. that has info on how lenz work(pictures) and the formulas/math etc. i need to study a bit more
$$$$ idea $$$$
glass bowl paint outside with crome spray paint (reflecktor)
the hole for the light mount im cluelless ????
"i havent tryed nor heared of this idea"
dose any one no about the M59 bulb. thatsmy next light source, maybe.
:D :D :D :D |
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| Undream |
a 'M59 bulb' is merely a type of bulb that requires a certain ballast.
The actual things you are looking for when looking to buy a bulb is: wattage, color temperature, bulb life, initial/mean lumen output, bulb size, base type, and CRI (color rendering index).
I got my bulb and ballast today. The ballast looks slightly used, but, I'm cool with it as long as it works. The capacitor is definitely brand new. The bulb is new. However, he quoted me a MS400/U/ED28, and shipped me a MH400/U/ED28. Difference? its either 36,000 or 38,000 instead of 40,000 initial lumens. mean lumens is closer, at about 27,000.
We'll see how it works. For the price, I am happy with what I got. I picked up a Mogul base for $7 even, so my entire metal halide setup was $93 and change. Wow. |
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| fender4 |
...or at least it is killing my DIY "career". Priorities--a necessary evil. :cool:
No problem, biteon. If you have a pic on your harddrive, just use the "Attach file" option at the bottom of the post page. It will save us thread space next time ;) .
Sure, a bowl will reflect, but it won't work for us. Unless the designer of the bowl was going through a geometrical/artistic phase that compelled him to make a bowl a mathematically-correct parabola. Doubtful. We are looking for paraboloid or ellipsoid relfectors because those have focal points that allow us to control light from a point-source. Click here, press Ctrl-F, and type "reflector". Read up on all the discussion about reflectors...that will help you more than waiting for an answer here. Learn through the mistakes and successes of others. (not being sarcastic...just practical.) You should also find many links on optics/reflectors the same way. Also go to google.com and type "physics mirror" or something like that.
Undream,
That bulb should be fine...the cool thing is you have a nice ballast! Even if the doesn't work out, you have many options with that ballast. I don't know the specs of it, but Home Depot sells 400watt (LARGE!) bulbs for $20 around here. Good luck with it, and let us know how it goes!
NEED SOME HELP!
Does anyone know where I can get a flawless OHP fresnel for cheap? Mine is barely useable because of wear and age (probably 25 years old). Inventory Solutions won't return my e-mails, so I guess they don't have any. Any suggestions? Thanks.
-f4 |
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| Scot_lad |
I've stopped reading this thread because at roughly a page a day it's getting too buy to read, when I'm not really concentrating on LCD like you guys are. If anyone wants any info from me or to figure something out then send me a mail. Click on my email thing at the bottom or something. I've not read since page 134 or something.
I'll still drop by and give you some info anyway if I find anything relevant. Sorry if you've already sorted this out.
http://www.leefilters.com do a light temperature conversion range of products, for various reasons like removing UV or converting to daylight temperature, etc. Hope it's useful.
Cheers, |
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| remp |
Gunawan,
On page 126 I said facing the LCD towards the light source improved the picture quality (for that setup) not picture brightness. If you read the previous post it was using a slide projector and a simple page reader for a projection lens so it was not like a usual ohp setup. I experimented further and borrowed a very good fresnel from an optometrist and picture sharpness was not far short of using a glass projection lens however the fresnel was too small to give the whole picture, there was very slight colour fringing on the right side of objects and the slide projector lamp burned out so I bought an ohp. |
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| jpsexton |
Hello all,
I've been reading this thread for a couple days trying to absorb all this info. This is something I'm definately going to try. I'm most interested in the method posted by Zark. Using an old projection lens and replacing the CRT with an LCD panel. This just seems to make alot of sense to me but, what's the catch? Does anyone know if he was successful? I've allready bought some lenses off ebay and I'm looking to find a 5" LCD panel with more resolution than the one on partsexpress. I guess it would do for video though, and thats all I'm interested in. I like to hear if anyone knows of any sucess with this method.
Best Regards,
John |
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| dwalls32 |
| On Zark's website he had a pretty good image of his final result |
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| gav |
| thanks marklar, i only wish the exchange rate wasn't so crappy :) |
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| ChuckReese |
Hi all,
I just got my Dukane 680 OHP from Inventory Solutions today, and let me tell you it is <b>bright</b>. With a 575W Metal Halide bulb, I was surprised it is so quiet. The aperture of 11.2" is too small for a 15" LCD. I guess it time to take this bad boy apart.
I will post pics if/when I make any progress.
CR |
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| multiplexor |
| quote: | Originally posted by ChuckReese
Hi all,
I just got my Dukane 680 OHP from Inventory Solutions today, and let me tell you it is <b>bright</b>. With a 575W Metal Halide bulb, I was surprised it is so quiet. The aperture of 11.2" is too small for a 15" LCD. I guess it time to take this bad boy apart.
I will post pics if/when I make any progress.
CR |
i was gonna bid on a 680 on ebay... but then i heard the bulbs were VERY expensive to repalce.
how much would it cost to replace that bulb? the 575W MH? |
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| ChuckReese |
| I don't know how much they cost. I got the whole projector (including bulb) for $150, but I don't know how many hours of life is left on it. |
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| ChuckReese |
New topic:
The big problem with OHPs is the small aperture size. My dukane only has an 11.2" x 11.2" aperture, but common XGA LCDs are 12" x 9" (with a 15" diagonal). Originally, I had thought of ripping out the fresnel lens and using a bigger one together with an elliptical reflector from Edmund optics. This adds about $300 to the cost of the project (not to mention the time needed to build a new enclosure).
Here is another idea. For an extra $300, I can upgrade my LCD from a VG150 to a VG171. The VG171 is 1280 x 1024, but more importantly, it only has a 17" diagonal; it uses smaller pixels. Using the 11.2" aperature on my OHP, I will still lose pixels (after all it even bigger than the VG150), but because the VG171 has a higher DPI, I can now fit 1024 x768 of those pixels in the 11.2" aperature of my OHP without changing any of the optics. The VG171 also has higher contrast ratio (400:1) which is competitive with low-end LCD projectors.
If this is going to work, I need to find a way to make my computer use only the upper left corner as an XGA display (but still use the native resolution of the LCD). If I can make this happen, it should be as good as using a 15" LCD for the same price. The difference is I would be done as soon as I buy the LCD.
CR |
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| rmccoll |
I have a couple of web site that sell controllers that lets you control a wide range of laptop lcd.
If your computer has a AGP-SPRINT-7 or CoolMonster/P3 video card installed you can control alot of lcds. On the card there is a connector that connects to the lcd. it controls Sharp, Misibitus and whole lot of lcd's
alot of these lcds are on ebay
www.dpie.com/pcbus/jilitechnology.html
(you have to buy the cable from them but they dont give out prices you have to request a quote or something
www.compulab.co.il/586-lcd.htm
they sell embedded computers that control alot lcds, it's a 586 computer for $110
hope this helps a little |
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| prjctr_builder |
what are you guys taliking about? if you LOOK on ebay.com, you WILL FIND an LCD projection panel that has XGA resolution!!
hehe...lmao
aleksey |
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| fender4 |
rmccoll,
Thanks for the interesting links. I spent a few minutes looking through datasheets from National Semiconductor that relate to the interfaces you mentioned. I'm a novice when it comes to analog/digital circuits, especially with the myriad of video standards out there. Using one of those cards with a computer to drive it would be a solution, but I would still love to incorporate one of those National chips into a standalone solution for driving a salvaged laptop LCD with an analog video signal.
I can't make heads or tails out of it because of my ignorance, but it seems like some clever mating of a couple of chips (one of these interface chips with a NTSC/monitor driver chip...also from National, I think), it seems like it could be possible. If we could find a source for high-rez, compatible laptop LCDs (I'm sure they're out there) and get an electrical whiz to figure out the analog/digital interface, we would be in business.
Until then, I'll keep playing with my low-fi OHP panel :rolleyes: . It works, but if you are anything like me, nothing is ever good enough :D .
Chuck,
Congrats on the OHP! It sounds nice. If I were you, I would just use the 15" with the image scaled down slightly to fit the OHP stage. It sounds like any other option might get expensive...approaching used LCD projector range :eek: . But I completely understand the DIY mentality, so go for it if you have the means! Good luck to you.
-f4 |
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| Marklar |
This is the 4th element wide angle lens that is used with the Dukane quantum projector, it is a single sided convex and I have no idea what its focal point is I shined a light through it and it never came to a point. If I get a concave lens would it have the opposite effect as this lens? Here are some photos of it.
 
 |
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| ChuckReese |
| quote: | Originally posted by fender4
If I were you, I would just use the 15" with the image scaled down slightly to fit the OHP stage. It sounds like any other option might get expensive...approaching used LCD projector range :eek: . |
Not likely as XGA LCD projectors start at $4k and go up from there.
However, I have decided to go with a 13.8" laptop LCD that has XGA and good contrast ratio since these also have high DPI. I think earthlcd has these in inventory, but they just list part numbers. I have been having a really hard time finding one that would work, since most laptop LCDs only do 262k colors. After I find one, I still have to figure out how to drive it, and from reading this thread it appears to be nontrivial.
I need:
13.3 - 13.8" TFT XGA LCD with 16.7M colors and 300:1 contrast.
Does anyone have a line on one of these?
CR |
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| daveb |
Chuck,
For what it's worth, I've been thinking that a laptop LCD is the way to, but I think it puts you out of the $200 projector catetory.
The problem seems to be driving the signal. This is the type of product I've found that may suit, but I've priced them out at about $450 Canadain.
http://www.digitalview.com/products...rModel=AVT-1024
That combined with a scaler to pump an XGA signal (like the XGA Theather box, at $129 US) start to add up.
Assuming this is the way to go, the outstanding bridge to gap is the cabling that takes the signal from the controller card to the panel. I've seen on (at least, some) laptop lcds, there's a circuit board portion that flops over and would cover part of the screen. To move it out of the way, you'd need some sort of pass-through, extender cable, but I don't know how to source one.
(been lurking here for many weeks, learned a lot, but haven't contributed much)
dave. |
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| Undream |
Okay. I received my 400W metal halide setup. I started doing some tests late Friday evening. Marklar, I noticed that you wrapped your bulb in aluminum foil, so, I decided, as a temporary reflector and easy way to test, I'd do it too.
I had a box fan blowing on my whole contraption. I had a beautiful image of CRAZY TAXI 2 off my dreamcast on my wall, and ran to go get my camera. I came back, and noticed that there was a lot of light around the room from the bulb, and I should put soemthing around the sides of everything. problem is, I didnt really think about it, the air from the fan wasn't getting to the bulb after I did. So, within 2-3 minutes of making this change, and as I was still google-eyed over the image on my screen, and I picked up the camera, pointed at it, and was about to click, my bulb just fizzled out.
YES, I BURNT OUT A $25 400W Metal Halide BULB!!!
so, just as a warning, unless you've got 15 fans pointed at a bulb, don't wrap it in aluminum foil! I baked it like a baked potato. Marklar, I would even recommend changing your setup even if it is not burning up, it must be hard on the bulb.
It was a Philips bulb. I was talking to a guy at the local electronics supply store, and he said they suck. So, I won't be getting a philips next time. I sure as hell hope that it is in fact the bulb, and not the capacitor or ballast. I'm about 90% sure its just the bulb though..
UGH
what a downer, I'm still trying to recover emotionally. hehe. |
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| ChuckReese |
daveb:
I do not need a hardware scalar or analog video connections (just VGA). I plan to run the LCD from my computer and do scaling in software.
CR |
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| Marklar |
Undream,
All I have is a 80mm fan blowing on my bulb and I have watched many movies like this about a total of 12 hours. Friday night we watched tv for about 3 hours on it then I smelled something I was like OMG!! its burning so I ran around to check it and the ballast was hot as hell I think I will be putting some heat sinks on it and ading a extra fan to blow on the ballast.
Anyone,
The lens I posted earlier Im trying to find the focal length of it. The normal OHP lens assembly has a 327mm focal length when I add this lens it has a 280mm focal length. I tryed that formula but I donno if I did it right I came up with that small lens having a focal point of about 2010mm. Could someone give me a second openion on that. And if I get a concave lens with a -2010mm focal lens it would have the opposite effect right? |
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| fender4 |
Undream,
Whoa! Sorry to hear about that. It sounds like it blew on the first run, but did you try it without the foil? I really like your DIY screen on your website. It looks good!
Marklar,
It sound like you MH setup is working out for you. Do you have any movie screenshots using the setup? Just curious. Have you tried it without the foil? How does that compare? Is there just too much light scatter?
later,
f4 |
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| Undream |
Yeah, this was first run in conjunction with the other components of my projector. however, I let the light burn about 10 minutes two times before this run.
total time it burned was about 30 minutes. I don't know, who knows, maybe I got a bum bulb? |
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| prjctr_builder |
Hi, i have purchased an InFocus 7600w LCD projection panel, and it has a 1024x768 resolution, but i am worried about the fact that it has a PASSIVE MATRIX display, and some panels have an ACTIVE MATRIX, will it make any difference?
aleksey |
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| fender4 |
Aleksey,
I'm not sure what implications that might have, but I would think that a higher-end panel with a resolution that high would be also have adequate video capabilities. I wish I could tell you something more definite.
Well, to possibly give this project a little pep-rally, I am including this link:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/show...threadid=139122
This is a thread on avsforum.com about the most-popular low-priced LCD projector right now, the Panisonic AE-100 ($1400 USD is the lowest price found, I think). Many owners brag about the picture quality (which I'm sure is nice), but this thread tells of the many failures seen with this projector so far. Many complaints seem to come from the bulb, and as we all know, these are VERY expensive (over most DIY projector budgets!).
I just thought that it would be nice to compare the best "budget" projector out there to what we are shooting for here. At least when something fails with our projectors, we can fix it ourselves! And once the metal halide issue get worked out, I will challenge any commercial projector to beat it in longevity (hopefully we can go longer than 30 minutes....sorry Undream ;) ).
Good luck, everybody!
f4 |
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| syadnom |
i see that LED lights arent quite feasable as a light source, and MH lights are so hot AND expensive. I've got another idea.
how about an automobile headlight? these can be found in pure white and are reasonably bright. maybee more than one would be required but if a three screen setup were used then they would be plenty bright and newer bulbs run relatively cool COMPARED to a MH bulb.
if not car sizes lights, then the type used on heavy equipment may be better, for instance CAT makes a light bulb for their Big dump trucks that MUST be near 5000lumens!, these things hurt to look at from 1/4 km away.
i dont know about price or availability but it could be something to look into. |
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| pod184 |
I think you would find that car headlight bulbs would run fairly hot also in an enclosed box. You would also absolutley need a reflector on it to get any real light thru the lcd.
Metal halide really is an amazing light source. My 400w MH does not produce anywhere near the heat that the 600w DYS quartz halogen bulb it replaced produced. That sucker was a space heater. Metal halide takes a bit more space and components, but it is the easiest way to "brute force" the maximum amount of light with the minimum amount of heat, even without a reflector
Pod |
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| Undream |
hehe, sure fender, rub it in why don't ya!
:D :D :D |
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| biteon |
i bought a 50,000 lumen bulb high presure sodium bulb. my friend work in green houses and told my that its whiter light than mercry
and MH, but i just read the post, myren said something that it had bad tone. should i take it back and get the mh 36,000 lums
also i got just the socket for these type of bulb for 14 bucks powers striat from the wall wil it work dose anyone know if these light need a special transformer to work it:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: |
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| Xterrian |
| What do you guys think of this? |
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| Jernau |
Hi all
Sorry to skew the topic slightly back to LCD panels, but i just wondered if anyone had ever come across either of these two items. I'm from the UK and i've had little joy finding kit to use...
This 4" TFT panel from Maplin electronics, which is described here and here in more detail. It's got a composite video input but i don't know wether or not i can remove the back panel and backlight to get a lamp to shine thru it. Most likely i'll just go down to Maplins in Manchester and take a look at one.
There's also this which is a full unit rather than just a module. Again, no idea if this can be dismantled or not, so i'll have to ring them.
Much respect :)
Jernau |
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| SuperDave |
Jernau...the problem with those screens is that the resolution is quite poor (273x234 and 383x234). So even if you can take them apart and get a clear path for light you will be stuck with a VERY low resolution image.
I wouldnt suggest anything under 640x480 and I personally would take anything under 1024x768 (but thats just me and my demanding standards). If you do decide that you can live with this resolution then make sure you also find out what the contrast ratio and response time are...these can also make quite a difference in you projected image.
Good luck,
Dave |
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| SuperDave |
Well...I am sad to say that I have made noooooooo progress on my projector. I have been insanely busy lately and have had no time to work. Plus....I ordered a dukane 680 and I am waiting for it to get here so I can tear it apart....but damn I am going to have a good light source and nice optics....I hope it gets here soon.
I do have some thoughts and questions on lighting. Before I ordered the dukane I was going to go buy my 450W MetalHalide like others but I was upset at the size of the bulbs. I am getting a 575 watt MH bulb from my Dukane and it should have the reflector already built in. This will focus something like 7000 lumens. The bulb itself throughs out some insane number...but I just dont think I could build a reflector to do a better job on a LARGE bulb. I still plan on trying though, but I needed to get something up and running cuz I'm getting itchy to watch something.
If anyone knows where/how to get high wattage MH ballasts and bulbs that arent SOOO large I would appreciate the info (as would everyon else I'm sure). And if I am mistaken about the dukane's bulb not being as big as those HUGE store bought MH bulbs let me know.
Good luck and I'll get back to you guys once I tear apart my Dukane.
Ohhh...I gave my camera to my Bro...so I am hoping to also get a new digital camera befor I tear apart my new projector...If I do I will take many pictures and post them online.
Later,
Dave |
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| Marklar |
Xterrian,
Up to 1000 hour lamp life. My lamp lasts about 20,000 hours :/
Biteon,
Some bulbs are what is called self ballasted and can be hooked to normal line voltage but most HID lamps require a seperate ballast. I would check with the manufacture to see what it is. |
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| SuperDave |
Oh...I almost forgot. I finally got my DSL worked out at home and I registered diyprojector.com
I hope to have something up within a week or two with details on my progress and links to a bunch of info. I am unfortunately limited to 128 upstream bandwith so it might be a little slow for a while. The good thing is that it will be running on my own server which has about 160GB of free space right now. So... once I get it up and running I will be happy to post anyone elses progress, designes, or pictures.
I would like to get this site up a lot faster but I am currently working on a new project for work and will be focussing a bit of time on that project. So...I will let you guys know when I have something up.
Later and good luck,
Dave |
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| ChuckReese |
SuperDave:
I just got my Dukane 680 a few days ago. It uses a reflector and a lens (in front of the bulb) to shape the light. There is also a mirror at 45 degrees before the fresnel. The whole thing runs <b>really quiet</b>. There is no way I could do such a good job for $150.
CR |
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| SuperDave |
Chuck...my understaning is that the bulb is quite a bit smaller thant the DIY bulbs that others(including myself) have been using...is that true?
The bad side of our Dukane projector approach is that the bulbs dont last NEARLY as long and are A LOT more expensive to replace. So I want to use this as a temporary solution and maybe even go through a bulb or two while I work on building my own bulb/reflector system. The problem is that I dont think I will be able to do better, but I should be able to do similar and cheaper. That will be my goal.
But...with the 575 only producing 7000 lumens of focussed light that it does not look promising for me and the 450W MH bulb. I want a picture I can watch in a moderately lit room...I will have to wait to see what I get with my dukane and go from there...How bright is you image Chuck? Is it watchable with moderate ambient light? I sure hope so...I really dont want to have to try and cool a 1000W MH monster.
Later,
Dave |
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| ChuckReese |
SuperDave:
The dukane 680's bulb is about 1" across, but I think what really matters is the <b>arc length</b>, not how big the bulb is. I will try to post some pictures tonight.
<i>How bright is you image? Is it watchable with moderate ambient light?</i>
I don't know yet; I am not using an LCD, just a transparency. If your projector is coming soon, you will probably know the answer to this question before I do.
CR |
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| prjctr_builder |
wtf, 90% of the LCD projection panels have an active matrix LCD, the one that i have bought, has a PASSIVE matrix, does that mean that my panel is a piece of fecies? omg, i am shocked!!!
aleksey |
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| Marklar |
Here are some images of the light in the dukane 680 I took mine out cuz Im not going to use it.
I emailed an optical engineer at dukane and asked him how to easly reduce the image size hopefuly he'll gimme some useful info. |
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| Marklar |
I found a badass simple tool!!
http://www.opsci.com/index.asp?page...hCalc&exten=htm
Go here and input your LCD size in the custom CCD box.
Next box put the distance to the screen.
Then put in how wide you want your screen and BANG like magic you got the focal length of the lens you need!
I checked it on my current setup and it works so guess now I know what lens I need WOOT |
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| SuperDave |
Marklar...why did you replace the 575W with a 450W(you did use a 450 Watt right?)??
How is the image brightness compared to what it was with the 575W bulb in?
I'm just wondering cuz I bought the dukane FOR the light source and a little for the optics. It seems you arent even using the dukane's light source. If you arent using it I would like to know why if you dont mind sharing...and also if you are not using it would you be interested in selling the lighting electronics?
Thanks,
Dave |
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| SuperDave |
ooops...I just remembered that you had problems with your dukane...is that the only reason you switched to a 450MH?
Sorry,
Dave |
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| Marklar |
| Super dave well the ballase blew up and I couldnt find a replace ment or rapair it so I used a 400W High output MH compact bulb has about 40,000 lumens. I think it is actuly brighter than it was before only thing the OHP is good for is the optics the bulb is a waste of my hard earned money |
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| SushiMasterX |
I come back to Jakarta on June 27th! Can we meet? We can begin first "International DIY LCD Projector" club!!
Well, let me know! That would be great. Probably, I stay in Jl. Jaksa with the foreigner's. But, nice if we can meet and talk about crazy science stuff. Then, I go to Jogja'. Look for a teaching job.
Saya goblok man! But, only to make other's relax.
Allakum-asalam!
Hope to see you!
Sushi-man |
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| tech head |
Hi All
Looks like the sushi man has been busy.
Well, after getting my projector and video converter I realized that I have no where to set it up. I was thinking about putting it on ebay but I thought I would offer it to you guys first. After all, you guys got me interrested in the projectors in the first place.
If you want it just e-mail me with an offer and I will get back to you. |
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| tech head |
| quote: | Originally posted by SushiMasterX
'I have not yet begun to post!' |
I thought you were going to bed. |
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| SushiMasterX |
| I am the computer of SushiMasterX. I apologize. Arigatoo |
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| The Xung |
Okay, I'm sick of these spherical aberrations.
Should i try my luck finding a broken OHP off ebay?
or
buy a ~40mm achromat from surplusshed?
http://www.surplusshed.com/list.cfm?Category=Achromats
What are people's thoughts on the 55mm "experimenters" achromat?
Pretty sure the OHP lens will work. But do these "cemented" doublets from surplusshed look like both the lens and correction lens?
Money has become a large issue in this project now. |
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| Marklar |
| Please don't bid aginst me on ebay (cyrix_32) :P I finally found a good panel I will be selling mine soon as I get this one. |
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| prjctr_builder |
| quote: | Originally posted by tech head
Well, after getting my projector and video converter I realized that I have no where to set it up. I was thinking about putting it on ebay but I thought I would offer it to you guys first. After all, you guys got me interrested in the projectors in the first place.
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What exactly are you selling, tech head....
aleksey |
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| prjctr_builder |
| Allah Ashbar!!!!!!!!!!:D :D :D :D |
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| ChuckReese |
Wow, this project is starting to completely take over my life.
I did some tests with my Dukane 680 OHP to determine what I will need for the condenser lens. I ripped out the fresnel that came with the OHP, and projected the source onto the ceiling. From looking at the angle the beam diverges, I think I can use a fresnel with an 18" focal and still fill a 17" diameter aperture. If anyone else has this projector and can verify this, I would appreciate it.
CR |
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| tech head |
| It's a proxima dp2400 with two good bulbs, a dust jacket, and all the connector cables. And, since the projector only has vga input, a composit to vga converter. |
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| syadnom |
| what kind of life are you looking at for a MH light bulb? and how do you power them? do they run off a power converter or just straight 110? |
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| The Xung |
| quote: | | what kind of life are you looking at for a MH light bulb? and how do you power them? do they run off a power converter or just straight 110? |
I'm expecting ~20,000 hours. Enough for me to never have to worry about it. The place you buy the MH from should also sell the ballasts for it as well. The ballast usually converts the 110 to some 400V or so. Most MH run on a Mogul socket which you should also be able to get from where you buy the MH or some local hardware store. Unless you get a pulse start bulb/ballast, you do not need an ignitor. |
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| daveb |
I, too, have been piecing togher my system with much guidance from this forum. (and, as always, I want to post pix, and will do so when I get the chance)
I've cannibalized a Telex Firefly P250 LCD Projector, and am using the 6.4" LCD Panel from it.
I've purchased (at a garage sale) an Apollo II OHP, which uses a 600 watt light, but the image is still too dim. I need to double or triple the output to the screen. (The screen is a direct implementation of UNDREAM's design, but I'm using a sheet of High Impact Styrene, instead of the Parkland product. I'm impressed with its properties, all for $19 canadian, and picked up locally - I didn't wan to triple my costs by mail-ordering from Parkland)
I visited a local (calgary) lighting wholesaler yesterday, and after describing what I"m looking for, the best they came up with was a halogen bulb: 120PAR38, 10 degree angle spot, 120 v, rated at 25000 candle power, and the guy tells me ( but I don't know if I should believe him) that that translates to 21000 lumens.
If correct, this may be enought light to pump through the lcd. The bonus is that it screws into a standard fixture. At 10 degrees, it won't have too much spill, and with halogen, it won't be super-hot.
I don't reember reading references to this type of bulb in this forum. Has anyone given it any thought? Furhter I'm not sure what colour temp i'll be, but I think it's around 3200K. If so, is this an acceptable colour? I remember the bulb that comes in the Firefly is a FXL, and it's rated in that range).
You're collective consciousness has been summoned!
Thanks,
dave. |
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| Axeman |
Awesome snag of the 6.4" panel! I'm drooling all over my keyboard at the thought of such a find.
Why an OHP? Could you not use the optics from the projector?
Halogens generate a lot of heat. most people here are using metal halide bulbs that are very efficient. Less heat for a given amount of light. And LOTS of light. Plus 3200K might be a little low- but if the original projector's bulb was around that range, the optics/ electronics might compensate for that color temperature.
Good luck! Can't wait to see pics! |
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| SuperDave |
daveb....I wouldnt suggest using that light, and never listen to anyones rambling about candlepower. Here's the problem... most place think something that will light a backyard is BRIGHT, however we need something MUCH brighter.
Your projector is using a 600w light right now...my guess is it is a small halogen light with a build in reflector...just like the one on my Elmo OHP. It doesnt throw out much light. The bulb the guy wants to sell you is 120w. There is no way in hell you are going to get more output from the 120 halogen bulb than anything that is 600w. The light the guy want to sell you is similar to this
http://www.topbulb.com/find/Product...ProductID=40691
only it focused down to 10 degrees. As you can see it is only 120w and probably the same type of lamp you are using so you will only get 1/5 the brightness.
If you cannot find out what the lumen of the light is then find out the type and the wattage. Then you can get a rough estimate by using the lumens/watt chart in the document for various bulb types.
http://www.tinaja.com/glib/muse95.pdf
as you can see (using tungsten halogen as a reference) your 600w bulb throws out roughly 13200 lumens and the 120W will only throw out 2640 before it is even focusses.
You can count on only getting about 10% of you light focused and then you lose a lot more going through the LCD. For example...the 125W Merc Vapor bulbs we tried give off 55 lumens/watt or a total of 6875 lumens (the box says 7000 lumens). Now I have a 525W Metal Halide bulb that gives out an awesome 66,000 lumens but only focuses 7000 through my lens before I even put an LCD in there.
Also... Although halogens run cooler than normal house bulbs, they are still very inneficient compared to MH and MV. MH has 115 lumens/W, MV has 55 lumens/W and a tungsten halogen has 22 lumens/W. The energy going into these bulbs has to go somewhere. My guess is that you will need a lot more fans for a halogen bulb than a MH bulb.
So....to keep it short dont buy the bulb unless you find out I am WAY off on the wattage. And dont listen to them when they say that a halogen bulb is cooler. Its cooler than regular light bulbs but is VERY hot at the wattages we need.
Later,
Dave |
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| SuperDave |
daveb...in case you dont have it here is a link for you projector.
http://www.projectorcentral.com/pro...cfm?part_id=329
It looks like they basically did what we are wanting to do...too bad they didnt have a higher contrast ratio. If I were you I would buy a projector with a high watage MH bulb and use that. your current image is probably like 300lumens or something. Throw that screen over a 525W MH and you'll be rockin. Also you may get lucky enough to find a higher wattage bulb/ballast to throw inside the original projector...That would be cool.
It would necessarily be completely DIY...but it would be DIY upgrade to a sweet projector.
Later,
Dave |
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| Marklar |
I got my new screen today and damn it looks much better than that crapy sheet! The tech at Dukane mailed me back to.
Could you tell me what the focal length of the wide angle lens is? And if I get a plano concave lens would it have an opposite effect as the wide angle lens?
Jake
Dear Jake,
The focal length is 1875mm. I can not verify what the results would be without going into the main lens design. My prediction is that it will affect the corner resolution and corner illumination. But since you are not using the full aperture this may not be a problem.
You might be able to locate a lens through a optical supply Co.such as Edmund Industrial Optics.
AV Engineering,
Brian Buck
This should help me in reducing the image size I hope, anyone know where to get concave lenses that have a focal length of around -2000 mm? Mabey someone could solve this problem for me...
OHP lens = 327mm
OHP lens with wide angle lens (1875mm) = 280mm
OHP lens with concave lens (-????mm) = 450mm
Im no good at optics or math so if anyone could help me out I would be very thankfull. |
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| daveb |
SuperDave,
Your words are encouraging. I'm glad someone thinks I'm well on my way. Somedays...
Assuming I can master this forum's technology, I'll have posted a pic of the setup I've got going so far. You'll see the overhead projector (an Apollo II, model 3672, the gutted Telex Firefly, and the nifty little scaler/tuner box called the XGA Theatre.
The lens systems is a pair of convex lenses, on above the other, both mounted horizontally. I don't know what their respective focal lenghts are, but it happens to work out nicely: the 6.5" panel gets projected at a throw distance of 11' to a diagonal size of about 60". Once I back it up to 12', it'll be about right.
I've been planning all along to end up with XGA resolution, so I knew this would ultimately be a component. I know that when I pumped SVGA singal into the (then working) Firefly, the image was still more pixelated than I know I'd want, (and also dim. Specs say 220 lumen, and I'd say that's probably about right. I cannot believe the corporation shelled out $6000 or so for that thing new in 1997. But then, it was leading edge, the brightest portable LCD projector going! Little did I know that 6 years later I'd take the thing apart in my basement. But I digress...)
I also found that when I used either the RCA video in, or the S-Video in, the built-in scaler played only on the center portion of the 800x600 screen, likely at native scaled 640x480. How happy did that make me? Not too, that's for sure. So the XGA Theatre box (purchased on line for $129 US, and arrived in 6 days UPS) is doing exaclty what it's supposed to. I'm pleased with that component.
After careful dismantling of the Firefly (I only actaully had to break 2 pieces in getting it all apart.) I tore it down to the aluminum frame that holds the panel and the fresnals. The fresnals had to go: they were shaped to deal with the very short distances from the bulb to the panel, and the panel to the lens.
Interestingly, I found that there's a piece of glass on the underside of the panel, which as near as I can tell, is a polarixing filter. Without it, you can't see any image on the panel at all. And if you rotate it 90 degrees, it goes into a reverse-colour mode. I certainly didn't expect that, and I don't remember seeing any reference to a MANDATORY polarizing element on any of this forum to date.
The Screen, as mentioned before, is in place, and behaving well for a $20 picece of plastic. Has anyone else chosen an alternate to the Plastex Poly-Wall? This seems to have the same semi-gloss finish on both sides. Not gloss, but not matte. I guessed that if it had a hot spot, I could always sand it gently with fine grit sandpaper or steelwool to take off some of the sheen. Looks like I may not have to. Depends on how bright the final product is. Speaking of which...
I need a light source. I've been following this thread for many weeks, and have read it all (I think I started following it when it was around 80 pages) Mercruy Vapour and Metal Halide seem to be the front runners. YES? But they're scarily large, and expensive. Remembering that this is DIY, I wonder if this is where I should be ending up. Maybe yes, but I really don't want to pay $150 for a light that isn't right. SuperDave seems to say that with a 525 Watt MH, I can't go wrong.
I'm interested in knowing how to physically set that up. I think I'll be best to gutt out the OHP, and shoot the light up from beneath. Any thoughts on how far away from the OHP Fresnal the light should be? I'm scared of burning out the LCD panel, and I know I can't get another like it easily.
Clearly, there's got to be some cooling, and I'd like to know if there's any recommended manner/configuration/hardware. I get the feeling that the light will be a real "space heater", and I'll want to blow the air somehwere else.
I'm on a roll, so I'll tell you some more: I've been finishing the basement of my house for a few months, and it includes a 9' x 12' room that I've been given permission to turn into the Home Theater. At one end, is the 4' x 8' screen, handing from the joists by chains (temporary: it'll be hung like a picture eventually). Behind the opposite wall is my workshop, so there's plenty of room to rig up a housing/shelf for the projector parts in the workshop, cut a projection hole in the wall, and it's all invisible from in the room itself. Sigh. Makes me swoon thinking it'll all work out.
Anyway, that's where I'm at. I feell like I'm getting close. Your comments are most welcome.
dave. |
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| daveb |
This is the underside of the panel. It's so dark because of that polarizer I mentioned.
dave. |
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| daveb |
| Looks like nothing, but its something. |
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| ChuckReese |
daveb:
Every liquid crystal display has a pair of crossed polarizers. Usually, they are part of the LCD, but this is not required.
For the light source, you need more than just high power. It has to be small so it behaves like a point source. I suggest this 575W Metal Halide from Osram. It is the same one used in the Elmo A305 Solar Deluxe OHP (and pretty sure also the Dukane 680).
http://www.topbulb.com/find/Product...ProductID=46864
You are right, these are not cheap ($150!), but it will still only cost 1/3 the price of a replacement bulb for that $4K LCD projector.
BTW, you want to put the fresnel exactly one focal length away from the source. If the fresnel only has a grating on one side, you can measure the focal length by using the "sun trick" that has been mentioned here many times. If the fresnel is double-sided (most OHP fresnels are) then I don't know how to measure the focal length... there is no reason to believe the gratings are even the same on both sides. There can be another problem: if the focal length is too short, you will not be able to fill the fresnel enough for the LCD.
If you think the source will fry your LCD, try using a hot or cold mirror in the beam path to get rid of the IR. You can also use a glass window to absorb the UV. Be careful, though... the hot/cold mirror does not absorb IR, it reflects it back to the source.
CR |
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| Gunawan W |
I made Excel spreadsheet for calculating 2 lenses focal length.
Marklar, maybe this calculation can help you a little.
Find in my website under link name:
"2 lenses focal length calculation" |
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| biteon |
i got a book from 1995 grainger
then they sold this at the time
mh bulb 1500 watts 3000hr life 155,000 lums 15 3/8"long $102.80
cool
thats all folks:D :D :D :D |
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| jco9w |
I have been lurking for a while, and have gotten
my hands on an nview mediapro LCD for rather cheap as something to play with. Problem is I don't have the power supply for it. I was wondering if anyone had specs for this LCD, or even specs for what voltage and amps to use for any nview LCD. Most likely the Spectra C and Mediapro have the same power needs, so that could be useful.
thanks
James |
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| Ry4n |
Hi everyone! Just letting you know that I'll be joining you all on here. I'm getting an LCD panel and plan to start building an LCD projector pretty soon. BTW, is a finished, perfectly tweeked out home built LCD prjector as good as normal TV, a rear-projection TV or what-not? Thanks everyone.
Ry4n |
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| Marklar |
Well I used your proggie and damn it was easy to figure it out.
Now where can i get a 450mm convex or a -1200mm concave lens? |
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| Marklar |
| Anyone know how to make a zoom lens so I can adjust the focal length for lets say 400mm to 500mm so I can easly adjust the screen size without changing the optics out. |
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| SuperDave |
Well.....I think I finally found a fresnel that is big enough for the projector I want to build. Since space isnt a real issue I just need to find an LCD screen to match....
Check it out the picute of it...I think I'm ordering it today.
http://www.ntkj.co.jp/products-e.html
:D :D :D :D
Later,
Dave |
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| tech head |
Great pic!
Are you going to use that to project a 300' image on the side of A's stadium?
You could get a 100000000000000000 lumens light and an lcd with 60000X80000 resolution.
but seriously,
That looks like a good place to get ferensl lenses from. |
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| SuperDave |
well the problem with that place is it's in Japan...and they dont list prices, although they actually do have what I want (and no its not the 200 inch fresnel).
While looking for frenels I found this site.
http://www.globalspec.com/Frames?Ur...ical_Components
It lets you put in some pretty detailed info on lenses and will find places that sell exactly (and also close matches) of the specs you want. It was REEEAAALLLLY COOL!!!
However, I just cant find what I need for cheap and I am starting to get worried. Has anyone found fresnels that will work for a 15 inch screen. The only ones I have round are roughly $100 and I need 2. That is WAY too much. Myren??? or anyone else with a 15 inch screen have any ideas???
Thanks,
Dave |
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| SushiMasterX |
The SushMeister will handle that. I have requested a price for the 500x500mm Fresnel and we should get an answer shortly. It's worktime there just now.
That size will give us an idea on pricing. It's Japan, so probably expensive. Anyway, let's see.
Go Wings! |
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| Undream |
| confirmed that the bulb was bad, got a new one and it worked. |
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| ChuckReese |
SuperDave:
ROTFL!!!
Good luck on your search for the matching LCD.
;) ;) ;)
CR |
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| ChuckReese |
| quote: | Originally posted by SuperDave
Has anyone found fresnels that will work for a 15 inch screen. The only ones I have round are roughly $100 and I need 2. That is WAY too much. |
SuperDave:
I gave up looking for cheap fresnels and ordered 2 from fresneltech for $120 each (16" x 16" and an 18" focal length)... not exactly the price I was hoping for. I will post pics when they arrive (1-2 weeks).
:(
CR |
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| Ry4n |
| Does anyone know what the biggest sized LCD screen you can use with a projector? Or does that depend on what kind of lense you use? ... That was probably a dumb question, but forgive me, I'm new at this.. |
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| SuperDave |
Ry4n...dont worry, it wasnt a dumb question. There really is no maximum size for the LCD. You are right that it all depends on the lenses. More specifically the fresnels. This is basically what we have been talking about the last few posts. A number of us have 15" LCD screens and I think some may have 17". The fresnel lenses that come in OHP are only about 10"x10" so they do not push light through the entire screen. I, as well as others are trying to find cheap fresnels that are bigger than our LCD (they must be bigger to work properly) and are having a hard time. But theoretically you can whatever size LCD you want as long as your fresnels are bigger. Just remember the bigger the LCD the bigger the fresnel, the more likely you will have a longer focal length, and the bigger your projector becomes.
Hope that helps,
Dave |
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| SuperDave |
Chuck...do you have a 17" screen???
That is what I eventually planned to go to if I cant find 1280x1024 in a 15" screen. The 16" x 16" will work great even if you go to a 19" monitor I think.
I did find some 10"X12" plastic fresnels while searching for a few hours today. And the focal lenght was only like 8" or so. My screen is 9" x 10.1" so I might end up losing a few rows (like 10) of pixels if I go that route and if the 10"x12" is actual lens size and not the sheet size...I would like to find bigger cheap plastic lenses if possible... I am sure we will eventually find them at some place like surplus shack or something.
Good luck,
Dave |
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| Undream |
okay. I got a message from Buddy at www.affordablelighting.com the other day. I just returned his call this morning, and I am astounded.
He found our thread on the 'net, and read my posts, and saw that he had shipped me the wrong bulb (MH instead of the quoted MS). He called to make things right.
He is going to send me a free bulb. Its going to be a larger size (they dont make ED28 MS's i guess), but, this time it *will* be an MS. I talked to him for a while, and he actually seems interested in our project. I told him that I blew out the bulb, but it was completely my fault, and he chuckled with me a bit. BUDDY RULES. I gave him my website address and explained to him a few things about our project.
Anyway, I'm astounded by their customer service, and can't believe that they are going to send me another bulb free.
All I can say is, everyone who needs a metal halide setup, Go with them. for the love of god, go with them. Mention me (Brad in Michigan) or our project and maybe he'll give you a discount. hahah. ok maybe not.
Again, his number is:
1-800-683-8825 and ask for Buddy.
*end commercial*
anyways, I'm one happy guy. |
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| ChuckReese |
SuperDave:
I do not even have an LCD yet. I plan to use a VG150, but you are right... the 16x16 fresnels are big enough to accomodate a 17" LCD. The problem is that the source needs to be at the focal length of the fresnel, so if the beam divergence angle of the source is too small, I will not be able to fill a 17" LCD even though the fresnel is big enough. I have done my best estimate of the beam divergence angle, and I think I will be able to use a 15" LCD with no problem. If the 17" LCD also works, I may upgrade in the future, but right now I would be more than satisfied with XGA resolution.
CR |
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| gav |
| it came it came it came :) my panel FINALLY arrived.....arizona via teh south pole, back around teh corner and finally down under...all in 8 weeks!! :( at least it's in one piece, and i can finally start putting some decent input to this forum....thanks for keeping this ideas alive fellas, at least i haven' t lost motivation :) |
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| Timtimes |
| quote: | Originally posted by jco9w
I have been lurking for a while, and have gotten
my hands on an nview mediapro LCD for rather cheap as something to play with. Problem is I don't have the power supply for it. I was wondering if anyone had specs for this LCD, or even specs for what voltage and amps to use for any nview LCD. Most likely the Spectra C and Mediapro have the same power needs, so that could be useful.
thanks
James |
Way to go dude! I won an Nview ViewFrame off ebay this week and it is lacking a power supply as well. Seller says he's using a universal 12v that he isn't supplying me, but I shouldn't have any problem finding a replacement at Radio Shack. I'll let everybody know how happy/sad I am about it when it gets here next week.
I'll give more info when I get my hands on the unit. Doesn't your unit have the voltage/polarity listed on the case where the power supply should plug in? I've noticed in auctions for similar panels that the power supply appears to be a standard wall type low wattage transformer.
Now I just need an overhead projector and I'm off to the races.
Enjoy. |
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| fender4 |
My nView Spectra C has a 12V 2 amp DC power supply, with a pretty standard looking barrel connector at the panel. If your panel is anything like mine, it should be fairly easy to find a suitable supply. I would recommend not going less than 2 amps on the supply, which would probably limit your choices. It gets pretty warm, so less than 2 amps might not cut it.
Good luck! |
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| Marklar |
| Well I just made a stand to hold the bulb and reflector I got and its brighter than the sun well just about. I can hold a peice of paper right infront of the reflector and in the very center it burns about a 1.5 inch diamater hole in it in about 3 seconds so Id say thats prolly all the light that im going to need. I would recomend a compact 400W MH to everyone this light is awsome!! |
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| fender4 |
Well, my 600 watt DYS bulb (for my OHP) just blew. I have run it for probably 10 hours, so I am assuming it was near its end when I received it.
So instead of spending $20 to replace a VERY HOT and inefficient, short-lived bulb, I am going to go the 400 watt MH route.
Marklar, what is you reflector set-up? Sorry if you have posted it before...I've been out of the loop lately.
-f4 |
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| Marklar |
| Fender4 check out page 138. |
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| contrapasta |
Just wondering, those who got the older (?) style Advance (or another) MH ballasts, is there any noise or hum? I think one of the most important parameters is this project is noise and heat. I always thought that the 'newer' electronic type ballasts are ideal because by design there are quiet and effiecent. Of course there is not a huge supply of surplus electronic ballasts, so cost is a bit more...
This is all a null point if those cheap Advance ballast's are quiet and cool... are they??? (Underdream or anyone)
And one more thing, as far as page refereces, could you please refer to the date? It is a lot easier that way, all you would have to do then is to scoll down and find it (in print page view). Many of us have customized the articles per pages, and they don't match up, and older messages take forever to back track... |
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| Marklar |
Well the ballast for the MH bulbs will hum IF you dont have it screwed down tight, if it is secured well you dont have to worry about that. They do get hot to I plan to stick heat sinks on 3 sides of mine and mount an 80mm fan that will blow on it. Here is my light setup so I can test it before I build the box.
This is very bright you CAN NOT look directly at this when it on you will see spots for like 10 min I have to wear super dark glasses when Im messin with it.
Here is the inside the bulb is about 6 inches from the front of the reflector.
This is what happens to cardboard after a few seconds in front of the light. DONT STICK YOUR HAND THERE IT HURTS!!
Thats the hole after a few seconds in the light so it is a VERY focused beam and it will need a UV filter I will be useing a small peice of Low-E glass found at home depot and see what that will do. Well thats all for now any questions? |
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| Undream |
The Advance ballast and Capacitor are slightly warm to the touch after 20 minutes running. The capacitor makes a slightly audible hum, but, as Marklar said, when bolted down it wont be a problem. other than that, its perfectly quiet and cool.
Here are the latest pictures of my setup. I'm using a BT37 bulb now (yes, this is one of those huge whoppers from Home Depot). Waiting for my MS400 to come from affordablelighting.
Okay, my digital camera *SUCKS* in the dark. seriously, its horrible. It automatically brightens the image so that everything is clearer, but, what happens when it does that is it washes everything out. I snapped 4 pics with our real 35mm camera, and will 1 hour photo them tomorrow. this is the best I can get out of my camera, which is pretty bad. I'd say the image looks 5 times brighter, 5 times clearer, and has a TON more contrast than what this looks like.
Also, this is with a flat piece of aluminum as the back of the projector 'box'. Thats right, basically no reflector. its about 20% darker when I don't have the aluminum there at all. When I slightly bend the aluminum, I can see it get brighter. Once I make this aluminum the right shape, and build a finalized box, I'm going to have a helluva projector on my hands. |
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| Atomos |
Marklar that is an awesome reflector do you know what it is called so if i walked in to a light supply house and asked about one they would know what i am talking about?
my projector is almost done all i need now is a MH light and a reflector and
maybe a better projection lens
-Atomos |
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| Fiat1 |
| Hello, I have not posted for at least 50 pages but I have not had anything to say, I also lost interest in my projector, I had my modifyed overhead projector using a holgen globe going, got board with its heat and did not want to spend any more money. I just have to get a video projector so I am back! I live in Australia and am going to look for a MH globe set up, will look for on like Undreams, if not I will work with Gav1 who is also in Australia and we can pool out Australian resources. Using a pre condencer is needed becuase it allows the light to be focused to a point, if are using a non point light source it focuses the light down to a point. If you have a holgen like I did with many coils that was not even close to a point caused the image to be fuzzy around writing and was not sharp, using a condencer will overcome this problem. Rember to everyone building a projector, put a thermal fuse in, one that is self reseting! I had mine in my modifyed OHP to shut down the globe yet keep the fans running to exust the heat. Gav1 if you read this please reply and lets talk about what kind of globe you are gonna use, I am going to go and find one at a local lamp replacment shop, stock globes for like projectors and everything. Just an note on a source of small SVGA res LCD's this link might be of help, it comes with 2 of them so 2 people could buy then and split the cost- http://www.i-glasses.com/Store/SVGA2.php3. That is my 2 cents for now! |
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| gav |
hi m8, i was wondering if u were going 2 reply to this board again...muzzman is also from downunder (melbourne i think)
as stated just b4 my panel arrived...including a $40 parking fine and $30 transaction fee all up the ovation 820 panel cost me $260 aust...
2nite i botched up a setup..sorry i don't have a camera 4 shots but i'll pinch works camera on tuesday (long weekend - woohoo)
in this order i had : 55w 37degree spread dichroric (spelling?) down light, approx 40cm long cardboard box, plastic $3 fresnel, 2cm gap then ovation panel (upside down and switched left to right to compensate for lenses) , aprox 30cm of carboard box and then another $3 fresnel, about 7 feet then my projection screen, displaying approx 3 feet by 2 feet perfect image :) i could see it sorta ok with lights on but a hellovalot better with all lights off and trying to cover up all of the light loss from the boxes taped 2gether :) it kicked *** compared to the 100inch thingy (the whole reason 4 doing this) ....i look forward to finding a better optical system down here - we don't have anything like surplusshed in aust (that i know of) ..interesting snippet of info was the light i was using - the dichroric lights give off 90% of their heat to the rear, i had it running for about 1/2 hour and the panel wasn't even LOOKing like getting warm, something to consider |
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