| SY |
Man, oh, man, that's the reason I stopped posting at Madisound (I still patronize them; good company!). And Audio Asylum, for that matter.
Here, only Frank deGrove makes fun of my lousy French and German.;) |
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| kelticwizard |
| I could slug "sinterklaas" for trying to send the guy who started it all over here. |
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| Luke123 |
SY...I know what you mean!! Totally agree!
KelticWiazrd...What means "sinterklaas"?
Luke |
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| planet10 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Luke123
What means "sinterklaas"?
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Santa Claus?
dave |
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| kelticwizard |
"Sinterklaas" is the name of the Madisound poster who wanted to send the originator of that thread to post over here.
A Google search confirmed what I had vaguely remembered before, which is that Sinterklaas was Dutch for St. Nicholas, from which we derive the name Santa Claus. However, the poster's name was not important, just the fact that he recommended diyAudio to the guy who started that Madisound mess. :D |
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| Christer |
Interesting thread indeed. I had no idea our favourite pastime here
in Norhtern Europe was racism and molesting children. Maybe I
should go out and try to find some immigrant kids to beat up?
Don't want to stick out from the crowd you know. Too bad it is
so cold today. :) |
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| Izrun |
| Don't worry Christer. I'm from Texas, so my favorite pastime must be herding cattle and shooting "Injuns." |
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| GUILHERME |
| quote: | Originally posted by SY
Man, oh, man, that's the reason I stopped posting at Madisound (I still patronize them; good company!). And Audio Asylum, for that matter.
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Hi.
Once, on the tube forum someone raised a question about pcb etching solutions. I gave the formula that I have used for ages (which is the same suggested on the kontakt uv-spray literature).
Some local guru was very upset (and verbose too) because I had posted a formula for a potentially dangerous chemical.
Talk about hipocresy! the forum was filled with projects that cary lethal voltages (that can actually kill you) even when unplugged, and this guy is worried about an etchant (which you'd have to literally drink it to do any real harm).
Haven't post there since.
Guilherme. |
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| SY |
:cop: The mods and administrators try to take a sensible view of safety. There's always some hazard in dealing with electricity, and we normally urge caution. And certain subjects, like fooling around inside TVs or direct-mains circuits are verboten, since they're unnecessarily dangerous. But electronics diyers are normally aware of normal electronic hazards. When they're not and we see this, we try to step in with an appropriate warning.
PCB etchants are hazardous chemicals. Some are more hazardous than others. Most electronic diyers do not have the proper equipment and knowledge to handle the more hazardous stuff. The less hazardous stuff is still dangerous though; remember, these are oxidants/acids strong enough to chew through metal in a matter of minutes! |
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| leadbelly |
| quote: | Originally posted by SY
The mods and administrators try to take a sensible view of safety. |
I would have to say that I do appreciate the view you guys take on safety. When I first joined the forum, I didn't, since as a person who had electronics experience for 20+ years, I was frustrated by not being able to discuss the topics you considered verboten. But now I see that on a board as far reaching as this one across age, skill, and country, it is a wise position. |
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| 5th element |
I also took unbridge to the molesting comment and I told them so. I used to post on madisound but found this site, not thru lack of good ppl at madisound, it has its good ppl. DIYaudio is a better layed out site that is easier to navigate and we have not, I repeat have not! had one troll since ive been here. Plus no nasty comments which is always a bonus.
And as the guy stated with regards to Euro/USA tastes well it actually comes down to one major factor, choice!. Its sumwhat harder for us brits to source the same wide range of components you americans have access too. Having said that I have enough choice atm to keep me busy, its just if I wanna get an obscure driver from a smaller company.
Regards
Matt |
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| GUILHERME |
| quote: | Originally posted by SY
:cop: But electronics diyers are normally aware of normal electronic hazards. When they're not and we see this, we try to step in with an appropriate warning. |
And who told you that the unregistered (or registered, for that matter) people watching the forum are diyers "normally aware of normal electronic hazards" ?
My point was about what is published, not who is watching. A public forum is an open place. You can't tell if the person watching a 1200V powered amp is a seasoned EE, a wannabe diyer or someone that *thinks* is safety-aware, but is not. And you have even less control over if he actually decides to build it or if he has "the proper equipment and knowledge".
If you're truly worried about people hurting themselves with the information that is given in a forum, then you can't allow for highly dangerous projects, no matter how you paint it or how many warnings you give.
| quote: | | PCB etchants are hazardous chemicals. Some are more hazardous than others. Most electronic diyers do not have the proper equipment and knowledge to handle the more hazardous stuff. The less hazardous stuff is still dangerous though; remember, these are oxidants/acids strong enough to chew through metal in a matter of minutes! |
Couldn't agree more. But I still think that, although dangerous, the etchant I was talking about is not as dangerous as a valve amp, if for no other reason, at least the fact that it cannot zap you dead on the spot. Therefor, if you allow the publishing of one, you can't put your mod cap and come on hard at someone that publishes the other, while trying to help someone else, which was my whole point. |
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| SY |
| quote: | | the etchant I was talking about is not as dangerous as a valve amp, if for no other reason, at least the fact that it cannot zap you dead on the spot. |
Yes, a slow, painful death or disability is so much more attractive. |
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| Christer |
| quote: | Originally posted by SY
Yes, a slow, painful death or disability is so much more attractive. |
Is that why your monkey is smoking SY? ;) |
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| SY |
| quote: | | Is that why your monkey is smoking SY? |
I had a girl ask me that once. |
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| GUILHERME |
| quote: | Originally posted by SY
Yes, a slow, painful death or disability is so much more attractive. |
You don't have to. Simple safety measures allow you to work with the above etchant without harming yourself, even on the long run. OTOH, even with safety measures in place, a simple mistake working on an valve amp can create a life-threatening situation.
regards,
Guilherme. |
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| pinkmouse |
| quote: | Originally posted by GUILHERME
You don't have to. Simple safety measures allow you to work with the above etchant without harming yourself, even on the long run. OTOH, even with safety measures in place, a simple mistake working on an valve amp can create a life-threatening situation. |
Yes, that may be the case, and it doesn't even need to be as high a voltage as is common in valve amps, a 50V rail can kill in some cases. But what we try to do as Mods is make people aware of any hazards that we know of, and make people aware of any risks involved as best we can, as well as encouraging a culture of safe working practises.
As for your etchant, yes, it probably is safe, but then so were PCBs, ( the chemical), and DDT, just as two examples, thought to be at one time. ;) |
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| SY |
PM, I'm a chemist by training. Trust me on this one, NO etchant is safe. They can be USED safely, and that's why we don't generally forbid discussions about making pcbs. But the skills and equipment to do so safely are often not in the electronic diyer's arsenal, and most of us cannot properly dispose of the byproducts of the process. This endangers others, as well as the experimenter. So, it's worth warnings, especially when talking about corrosives and toxic metal compounds.
:att'n: :att'n: :att'n: |
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| pinkmouse |
| Consider my wrist slapped! :) |
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| Bakmeel |
... So does this make the posting of potentially hazardous topics verboten in the first place, or is it just the point that if you do, you make sure the topic is spilling over with safety warnings?
I remember myself posting an advert in the trading forum for a 10kV PSU, powerful enough to feed an electric chair. I was willing to sell it to anyone interested, but sincerely warning them that they shouldn't even touch it if they weren't aware of its potential lethalness. The thread was never removed or moderated, but reading your above statements I would have expected you would...
Bouke |
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| kelticwizard |
| quote: | Originally posted by Bakmeel
I remember myself posting an advert in the trading forum for a 10kV PSU, powerful enough to feed an electric chair....The thread was never removed or moderated, but reading your above statements I would have expected you would...
Bouke |
I would imagine anyone looking for a 10 kV supply in the first place would know the score, hence warnings over and above your own would be unnecessary. How many projects a beginner is likely to start would have call for a 10 kV supply?
On the other hand, if someone on the net comes up with a diyElectricChair Forum, I would hope the moderation team would reconsider carrying ads on the Trading Post for such an item. :) |
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| kelticwizard |
| quote: | Originally posted by GUILHERME
But I still think that, although dangerous, the etchant I was talking about is not as dangerous as a valve amp, if for no other reason, at least the fact that it cannot zap you dead on the spot. |
I check out the amp forum from time to time, and I have seen this line of reasoning before. The idea is that if the high voltages used in tube amps are Risk Level 10, for instance, the moderators have no business warning about something that is Risk Level 5 or 6.
From what I gather, the idea is that the moderators try for the safest alternative to do something and still get the unit built. If high voltage tube amps are sold commercially and constitute a real part of the audio world, as indeed they do, then it is appropriate for diyAudio to have a forum dealing with these amps. People are going to build them anyway, books telling you how to build them are available at the bookstore or even your local library. It is appropriate to have a forum on building these amps.
However, I gather the moderators and members do try to let people know if the way someone is going about something is the safest way, even if the issue being dealt with is a Risk Level 6. There is an inherent risk in building these amps, but that doesn't mean that all safety issues that do not deal with a large electrical jolt are automatically null and void. |
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| SY |
| None of the mods (least of all me) claim perfect consistency and omniscience. My tendency is to want to warn people about hazards they might not consider or that lie outside of common knowledge in the electronics hobbyist community. |
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| Devil_H@ck |
| quote: | Originally posted by Luke123
What means "sinterklaas"? |
| quote: | Originally posted by planet10
Santa Claus? |
Not really, Santa Claus in Dutch is "kerstman".
"Sinterklaas" is a saint and he is celebrated on the 6th of December. Children get presents then. I don't think this exists in America, even in certain parts of Belgium he isn't celebrated, people then celebrate "Sint Maarten" instead. |
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| Bakmeel |
Nicked from http://www-astro.physics.ox.ac.uk/~erik/sint/sint.html
In the fourth century a.d. St. Nicholas (in dutch called "Sinterklaas" or "Sint Nicolaas"; in german called "Sankt Nikolaus") was the bishop of Myra, which is now situated in Turkey. According to the legend, he saved his town from starvation. He is also said to have revived three dead children, and to have offered gifts of dowries to poor girls. Some sources say that he died on the sixth of December in 343. In 1087 his relics were taken to Bari in Italy. It is unclear why, according to the Dutch tradition, he comes from Spain. Possibly it has something to do with the fact that St. Nicholas was the patron of sailors. In the 17th century Holland was famous for its navigation. Maybe by contact with Spanish sailors this myth began. It could also explain why St. Nicholas has "zwarte (black) pieten" to help him because the Moors dominated Spain for several hundreds of years. (Another [more popular] explanation for "zwarte piet" being black is that he has come down the chimneys so often [see below] that he can't wash the dirt off.)
His legendary gifts of dowries to poor girls led to the custom of giving gifts to children on the eve of his feast day, 6 December. The companions of St. Nicholas (in Germany and Austria they are called "Knecht Ruprecht" or "Krampus") show the victory over evil. Together with his "pieten" he visits children to punish the evil ones and to reward the good ones. The worst punishment is to be taken to Spain in "zwarte piet's" bag out of which the good children get the sweets (called "pepernoten", "taai-taai", or "schuimpjes") and presents. A less radical punishment is to get the "roede" (rod) instead of presents. Nowadays there are not much evil children any more...
A few weeks before his feastday St. Nicholas comes to Holland (and Belgium) on his steamer with all his "pieten" and the presents which they prepared in Spain during the year. This event can be seen on Dutch television. From his arrival in Holland till his feastday the children can put their shoes in front of the fireplace. During the night St. Nicholas visits all the houses by travelling over the roofs on his horse, traditionally a white/grey (called "Schimmel" in dutch), and "zwarte piet" enters the houses through the chimney to put little presents in the children's shoes. Sometimes the children put straw, carrots and water near the shoe for the horse.
On the eve of his feast day St. Nicholas visits all children. After knocking on the door he gives them a bag full of presents (if they were good children). Early in the morning of 6 December, when he has visited everyone, he leaves and goes back silently to Spain, to come back next year.
http://www.northpolesantaclaus.com/santahistory.htm tells the history of Santa Claus, and it explains that basically they are the same... |
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| Lusso5 |
[QUOTE]
..His legendary gifts of dowries to poor girls...[QUOTE]
Makes you wonder about the old man... |
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