| Rory Christ |
Anyone seen this yet?
www.firstwatt.com
"Aleph X"... that name sounds mighty familiar, but I can't seem to remember where I heard it before??? But the real question is, how will it stand up next to a Peter Daniel custom built chassis? :D
Seriously though, can't wait to see some pictures. All of the Pass Labs products have been a real source of inspiration for my DIYing. |
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| Nelson Pass |
Don't get too excited. The amps are ugly and prosaic, at
least compared to Peter's. |
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| vdi_nenna |
Ugly-shmugly! Who cares! Are they cheap and how do they sound!? :smash:
Thank God! More gadgets! :angel:
:D |
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| Da5id4Vz |
Ugly and Prosaic!
That’s great, they'll match the rest of my stuff! |
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| matjans |
| why a new website? |
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| ScottRHinson |
| quote: | Originally posted by Nelson Pass
Don't get too excited. The amps are ugly and prosaic, at
least compared to Peter's. |
Prosaic? Now that's just supercilious and pedantic!
;)
Seriously folks, I spent some time in the CES booth and metalwork was on display for The First Watt amplifiers. While not as fancy as the XA or X series the example I saw was VERY nice, very high fit and finish quality, serious aluminum front panel, serious heatsinks...serious all around. I think I have the info sheet somewhere...
Three cheers for Mr. Pass!!!
Mr. Pass, which version of the Aleph-X schematic will you be using? Will you publish it? I would love to build one of these, but I haven't made it through the thread to figure out which one is best/right/decent/not working....I found the thread a few bazillion posts after it started and I'm probably not the only one unable to spend the time to keep up with it.
Back to building speakers for me....
Scott Hinson |
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| moe29 |
i don't think Mr. Pass is going to publish a schematic for product
that is in production! There's more than enough info in the Aleph-X
thread if you want to build one... there's even an excellent PCB!
That's cheap!
can't wait to see them! |
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| Da5id4Vz |
It would be fun to see these sold Benton Harbor style, but the support costs on that stuff are horrendous.
Finding all the parts is half the fun too. |
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| vdi_nenna |
[ Why Reno? [/QUOTE]
Some thing to do wth the simplicity\cost to incorporate in NV. |
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| Steve Eddy |
| quote: | Originally posted by vdi_nenna
Some thing to do wth the simplicity\cost to incorporate in NV. |
Not to mention the cathouses. :)
se |
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| Steve Eddy |
| quote: | Originally posted by Nelson Pass
Don't get too excited. The amps are ugly and prosaic, at
least compared to Peter's. |
Any photographs yet? I perused most of the CES show reports online but wasn't able to find any photos of the FirstWatt amps.
Anything's gotta be better than those Volksamp versions. While the X series stuff looks good, I still have a soft spot for that little "cubist sea urchin" Aleph 3. Any chance of reviving that chassis?
se |
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| vdi_nenna |
Nelson,
What's the price range for these 2 new products?
Thanks,
Vince |
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| Nelson Pass |
The price has not been fixed, but will be the least expensive
thing I have offered since about 1978. |
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| GRollins |
That leaves begging the question as to whether the prices will be inflation adjusted from 1978 dollars.
Grey |
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| roddyama |
| quote: | Originally posted by GRollins
That leaves begging the question as to whether the prices will be inflation adjusted from 1978 dollars.
Grey |
That's the double digit inflation of the Carter years. |
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| gnomus |
| Build the real first watt SOZ or XSOZ. |
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| Panelhead |
| quote: | Originally posted by Nelson Pass
The price has not been fixed, but will be the least expensive
thing I have offered since about 1978. |
I do not know what you offered in 1978. The first Threshhold product I listened to was in 1981. In 1982 a friend had a real sweet 50 watter. Seems like it was around a 1000 - 1200.00 if I remember. But if it is priced in the realm of the Volksamp Aleph 30 is sounds like you should sell a lot.
A real quiet 15 watt X would sit very pretty in my system. I just need to peddle some stuff on A-Gon so momma does not find out.
George |
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| moe29 |
i still think that with the right speakers, my 5 watt X-SOZ is
the best sounding amp i've ever heard... so i can't wait to
see/hear these new offerings! |
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| MikeW |
| What kind of binding posts? I would hate to see a bad review for using substandard hardware.:clown: ;) :whazzat: |
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| eLarson |
| Snappy looking logo for First Watt, too, IMO. |
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| jh6you |
Hmm... I'm struggling my way through the brain filled up with garbage and busy work. My time space for DIY audio is now eaten up. So, good price for Zen X ? The original provided by the trustworthiness? Yeah, I would order one completely faricated Zen X. Nevertheless, since I'm here in DIY corner, I wonder whether the kits would be also available.
Expecting much ... :yummy: |
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| Nelson Pass |
No, and in that case they will definitely be the cheapest
amplifiers I ever sold.
However, I expect that the DIY crowd that flinches at $400
for a chassis will not be flooding me with orders.
:cool: |
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| kilowattski |
Nelson,
That is for sure. I still may be tempted to purchase one just to compare it to my Zen IV and to be one of the first one on the block to own one. Nelson, are you going to use the same dealer network as you do for your Pass Labs gear? Best of luck with your new endevour. This will be a great move toward bringing high end gear into affordability for all to enjoy. |
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| cowanrg |
man, ribbon speaker owners are getting screwed over here ;)
i just dont think 10-15 watts would drive my maggies.
i wish my store carried pass labs, but it looks like we are going to start carrying boulder, classe or something else. if you can convince them, ill stand behind it nelson! |
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| mrothacher |
| This is waaaaaaay cool news. Can I get in line for serial no.'s 001 and 002! Can't wait to see how they look. |
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| jh6you |
I see...
I want to have a unique and pretty look resembling the sweet musical sound, loving it lifetimelong.
:)
Best Wishes |
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| angel |
| Might I suggest adding a remote controlled preamp with good headphone outputs to the series? That would get my world rocking. |
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| jrsun |
Can not wait to buy one !
Just wonder is Dunlavy 4's 91 dB sensitive enough ? |
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| dw8083 |
If Nelson positions it as a basis or platform for DIY experimentation or testing, it could be very successful. Considering volume wholesale verse individual retail for parts, I bet the cost of these new amps is not a lot more then a high quality DIY build.
I'm warming up my solder sucker and building extra outboards!
-David |
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| Nelson Pass |
I'm making this up as I go along, but the output binding posts
will be those nice gold/brass ones we used to use before the
safety guys made us switch to plastic. The inputs are the usual
gold/brass from Vampire, and the XLRs are Neutrik, of course.
The marketing plans are not fixed in cement, but this is not
intended as a DIY thing. This will be a commercial effort, but
I intend that the distribution will be very flexible, given the
changes in the retail market. I have 2,000 of these to sell,
and I'll get my money back if I have to sell them on street corners.
;)
The readers of this forum will not have a lot to learn from these
circuits, as you have worked out most of the issues in building
an Aleph X or X-ing a SOZ type circuit.
:cool: |
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| MikeW |
| Call the lowest power one "The one and only watt".:whazzat: :dead: |
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| jh6you |
| quote: | Originally posted by Nelson Pass
I intend that the distribution will be very flexible, ...
|
I really hope that the shipment directly from your end to the end owner (e.g. me) is possible.
;) |
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| jrsun |
| Order directly online is good idea! Mr. Nelson's reputation and peer reviews is good enough! |
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| Mark A. Gulbrandsen |
I have to thiink to my self that Nelson must have heard the same commercial on KSL Radio that I did....
"Yes, you to can have your own Nevada Corporation for only $500.00....... Enjoy the many advantages of a Nevada Corporation today"
Its pretty cool that one of the benefits of a Nevada Corporation is high end power amplifiers :) !! I think I'll get mine today!
Mark |
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| Nelson Pass |
| It doesn't cost that much to incorporate in Nevada at all. |
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| jam |
Selling stuff on the street corner .............Mr.Pass? :D :D :D
Regards,
Jam |
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| Duck-Twacy |
Nice to see some affordable amps from the Master. The real off the shelf Pass amps are a bit too expensive for most mortals. Good for those who don't have the time, skill or will to make one for themself.
Will there be a matching pre? |
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| roddyama |
Duck,
You do know that these won't be the first reasonably priced Pass designed amps made available to the retail market, don't you? They will be just the first of the Zen/Aleph topology that have been made available. |
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| jam |
Rodd,
So are you going to be Mr.Pass's first customer?
Regards,
Jam |
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| Duck-Twacy |
| quote: | Originally posted by roddyama
Duck,
You do know that these won't be the first reasonably priced Pass designed amps made available to the retail market, don't you? They will be just the first of the Zen/Aleph topology that have been made available. |
The Volksamps were quite reasonable priced (though I never seen one over here) and the original Alelph3 an 5 probably were in the upper mid price range.
However the current Pass models over here vary in price from a nice little Toyota to a fat V8 BMW. Only a few people can or are willing to spend so much money on audio. So its good that this type of audio becomes a little more affordable (again). To oppose home cinima systems and mp3 a bit. |
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| roddyama |
| quote: | Originally posted by Duck-Twacy
The Volksamps were quite reasonable priced (though I never seen one over here) and the original Alelph3 an 5 probably were in the upper mid price range.
|
No, I was thinking of the Forte and Adcom amps. |
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| roddyama |
| quote: | Originally posted by jam
Selling stuff on the street corner .............Mr.Pass? :D :D :D
Regards,
Jam |
Jam,
Checkout the location of the seller in this eBay Ad. |
|
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| Tazzy |
| When can we expect FirstPics? |
|
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| Nelson Pass |
| quote: | Originally posted by roddyama
Checkout the location of the seller in this eBay Ad. |
RenoMark is our authorized dealer in Nevada, and a fine
one he is.
When I was thinking of the cheapest amp I ever offered, I
was referring to the CAS-1. |
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| roddyama |
| quote: | Originally posted by Nelson Pass
RenoMark is our authorized dealer in Nevada, and a fine
one he is.
When I was thinking of the cheapest amp I ever offered, I
was referring to the CAS-1. |
I almost bought a CAS-1 in the early 80's but was lured away by a real good price on a Bryston 3b.:cannotbe: Sorry Nelson.:blush: |
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| jam |
Rodd,
Almost is not good enough .......................... here is your chance to get the real thing! :D :D :D |
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| Mark A. Gulbrandsen |
I owned CAS-1 for quite a while. Bought it used back in the late 80's. I used it on a small system than and it was a clean sounding amp and it oddly enough ran pretty cool!
Mark |
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| gnomus |
| Do not understand why the fins on these amps and the volksamps are mounted the wrong way for air flow cooling. I guess it does not matter if the parts get cooked more than they have to. |
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| Mark A. Gulbrandsen |
I don't think they're aimed the wrong way...they all aim up which is the correct way. Considering these are designer (stylish) sinks they are done very nicely. I've never read a complaint about any of the amps overheating either.
Mark |
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| mrothacher |
Well...
This is one of those semi-urban legend gripes that no doubt appeared in the description paragraph of some audio rag eons ago.
The problem you mention is relative to the size of the heatsink. Sure the heatsink pictured might be 15% more efficient if mounted vetically, but so what? As long as its spec'ed for the right temperature rise above ambient.
I'd guess it has something to do with this construction technique resulting in a lower cost for the consumer, since it is generally cheaper to extrude a narrow heatsink than a wide one. Of course you could use two narrow heatsinks mounted vertically, but you've added extra cutting operations and parts handling. |
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| gnomus |
Being in finance 15% of anything is a big number to trim off.
It is better to run cooler than just meeting the specs. No sense in shorting the life of parts. It's not a big deal to put the better type of heat sinking on there.
The amp is hardly stylish. It's pretty plan looking. I do not care much about style if the money can be put towards better performance.
Those heat sinks are also a nice dust collector. |
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| Duck-Twacy |
| Well I like it (maybe the First watt name print could be a bit smaller ;) ) |
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| mrothacher |
Of course, this isn't finance. Isn't that like applying the rules of poker to a game of chess?
Do you like the show "Mythbusters" ?
Not being in finance, I conducted a simple experiment:
I placed my Penultimate Zen amp in the normal position (heatsink fins perpendicular to the floor). I then allowed the amp to heat up from a cold start, taking heatsink temperature measurements at 30 minute intervals. The temperature stabilized after about 2 hours at 54.6 C, or about 30.4 degrees C above the ambient temperature of my room.
I turned the amp off and allowed it to completely cool.
I then placed the amp on its end (heatsink fins parallel with the floor) and took the same measuremnts. Once again, the temeprature had stabilized after 2 hours at 33.6 C above ambient.
A difference of 3.2 degrees, which will no doubt degrade the useful life of my amplifier by about one half of one percent. Of course, if this troubled me (which it doesn't) I could add about 10% to the length of the heatsink and the amp would once again idle at 30 degrees above ambient.
Being in finance you should understand that shaving $100 out of the cost of a unit goes a long way towards being able to sell the amp at a price fiscally challenged guys (not in finance) like me can afford.
I'm sure First Watt has designed the amps to idle somewhere between 50 and 60 degrees C. Perhaps there is an asthetic argument here, but there certainly isn't a scientific one.
Mr. Pass. I'll take one of each. Thanks. |
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| fcel |
It's not the heat. It's the look. I'm sure we all want the heatsink pointing up.
Of course, if you're running a company, there are a lot of factors to consider .... |
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| jh6you |
I wonder why the front panel is not a first watt style.
It looks unnecessarily thick. Does it work as a part of heat sink (longer time to reach to the max. temp.)? Or, does work to attract potential buyers who might evaluate the style more than the real meaning of the first watt? |
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| GRollins |
Re: heatsinks, etc. Never overlook the obvious. I suspect Nelson is using back-stock Volksamp metal.
The question isn't whether the heatsink is mounted 'correctly' or not. The question is simply how much heat is the heatsink being asked to dissipate vs. how much it can dissipate in that configuration. Given that the FirstWatt website says that the amps are 10 and 15W, I don't think you're going to be looking at huge Pd problems...
Grey |
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| mrothacher |
| That's pretty much what I was getting at. Thanks, Grey.:) |
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| Variac |
| I think it amuses Nelson to annoy people with stuff like this ;) |
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| Nelson Pass |
This is not Volksamp metal. The dies and everything else
are from scratch, although there is some similarity.
And you're right, I do like to annoy people. Initially when the
original Alephs appeared, everybody talked about how they
hated the chassis. They used to ask for an amp with a faceplate. When they got the Volksamp, they hated the
chassis, and begged for the original. Now in order to get a
ZenX or AlephX they will have to put up with it or build their own.
MuuuHahahahaha...... :devilr: |
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| mozfet |
Chassis looks great to me! and the size of the Logo is great too! and the Logo is Excellent! Now whats inside? (Just kidding)
As a Rehdeko Speaker user this is just my sort of thing.
Mozfet (on a high as I just bought a D1):D |
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| kilowattski |
Nelson,
I go down to my family room to listen to music. Not to look at my equipment. The looks may be important to Mrs. Kilowattski but as long as your amps sing as sweetly as they do, asthetics is the last thing on my mind. |
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| Variac |
I forgot to say I think they look fine. I've never read a revue that failed to comment on the thickness of the front plate.:o It's just a Hi Fi tradition, and First Watt has a thick enough one to qualify as high end ;)
I also enjoy irritating people who have the one right way to do stuff.
BUT WAIT! that is a blue led or two in the faceplate, right? |
|
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| roddyama |
| What about the First Watt pre-amp, will there be one of those as well (at a reasonable price)?:confused: |
|
|
| Christer |
| quote: | Originally posted by roddyama
What about the First Watt pre-amp, will there be one of those as well (at a reasonable price)?:confused: |
Won't they be manufactured by First milliWatt?? ;) |
|
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| gnomus |
| Not annoyed over a heat sink choice. It looks like volksamp which did not sell as well as expected. I would try and distance a product's look from that product. The logo itself is very nice looking. I agree though a smaller size would be better. The large size looks a little toy like. |
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| Nelson Pass |
I only screened a couple of faceplates for the show. Production
will no doubt see something more spiffy.
Regarding the heat sinks, this is simply a very efficient way of
doing it comparing performance versus cost and ease of
construction.
I would say also that I don't have any reason to distance this
from Volksamp, first because there was no problem with
Volksamp from my standpoint, and second, because I really
don't have to care what most people think - this is aimed at
the fanatical few. |
|
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| fcel |
| Chassis wise, could you design it so that if the end user would want to take the heatsink apart and cut it in 1/2 (or 1/3) and orient the heatsink vertically, the depth of the top and bottom plate would extend to the exact length of the vertically aligned heatsink. Similiarly, the front and back plate height would have to be predetermined. |
|
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| tiroth |
| quote: | Originally posted by Nelson Pass
Regarding the heat sinks, this is simply a very efficient way of
doing it comparing performance versus cost and ease of
construction. |
Validates my suspicion. :) A lot more mechanical work to cut an extrusion into three sections and mount to a frame of some kind...six pieces without structural integrity versus two that form the frame of the chassis. Skilled labor is expensive, more so than saving 20% on the length of your extrusions. |
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| gnomus |
| Nothing wrong with the sound of the volksamps. Your stuck with marketing though the audio press. If you buy ad space and the product is decent then they give good reviews. |
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| mrothacher |
| Please let me know if you need beta testers!:cool: |
|
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| Nelson Pass |
I don't really think that's how it is. Ad space doesn't hurt,
but all the magazines devoted to the high-end are far more
interested in having some content to the editorial area, and
are always looking for material. I have never been a big
advertiser, and I don't feel that I've been slighted by TAS
or Stereophile or any other high-end mag because of it.
(other reasons maybe.....) ;) |
|
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| GRollins |
Nelson,
I thought I recalled a post of yours from about a year ago wherein you were debating selling off Volksamp heatsinks to the DIY community; though a final decision hadn't been made yet. The heatsinks on the First Watt amps look similar, if not identical, to the VA heatsinks.
Perhaps my memory has failed...again.
Grey |
|
|
| pinkmouse |
Any of these going to make it over this side of the pond , Nelson?
Being the scruffy type that I am, I might stand a chance of auditioning these, whereas no dealer in their right mind would believe I could afford any of your big amps! ;) |
|
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| Nelson Pass |
| quote: | Originally posted by GRollins
I thought I recalled a post of yours from about a year ago wherein you were debating selling off Volksamp heatsinks to the DIY community; though a final decision hadn't been made yet. The heatsinks on the First Watt amps look similar, if not identical, to the VA heatsinks.Grey |
They are similar, but it is a different die for the extrusion, with
fancier finning, and drilled for plastic devices.
There ended up being no remaining heat sinks, in fact the
dealer who bought the remaining stock of amps wants more,
and we have had to disappoint him.
I'm really trying to stay out of the parts business - the value
added figure is too low, as is the volume. And besides,
everyone dislikes that sink, don't they?
As to FW making it over to England and elsewhere, I haven't
made any plans, being that I'm making this up as I go along.
The supplies are jumpable for 240V, but the output connectors
are those nice gold/brass ones that we can't export anymore
because the governments of the world want to protect you
from getting your pinkies shocked by the big bad 10 volt output.
Also, I have only put 1 filter on the AC line, so it probably won't
meet the EMI standards of nations still trying to protect their
local industries from imports.
So if you want one, you'll probably have to smuggle it in....
:devilr: |
|
|
| Merijn |
Can't you just sell them via US ambassies? Or maybe we just have to make a trip to the US...
(US Customs: "What are you planning to do in the US? Nothing illegal I hope?"
Me: "No, Just going to buy myself a 10W amplifier...) |
|
|
| pinkmouse |
| quote: | Originally posted by Nelson Pass
...but the output connectors are those nice gold/brass ones that we can't export anymore because the governments of the world want to protect you from getting your pinkies shocked... so it probably won't meet the EMI standards of nations still trying to protect their local industries... |
Do I sense a slight feeling of disgruntlement? :D
| quote: | | So if you want one, you'll probably have to smuggle it in.... |
pinkmouse/ wonders what the excess baggage limit is on BA... |
|
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| GRollins |
I don't recall ever saying that I thought the heat sinks were ugly, though I've seen others say so. If I had some on hand, I'd simply turn them on end and build a tall amp instead of a deep one. Problem solved.
It's a moot point, anyway. I'm hip deep in heat pump problems and still chain-sawing my way out of the mess left after last week's ice storm. The bright side is that I'll have a fair pile of fire wood ready for next winter.
Grey |
|
|
| MikeW |
| Why not make a nice wood front panel? |
|
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| roddyama |
| Still wondering if there's going to be a First Watt Preamp.:confused: |
|
|
| jh6you |
| quote: | Originally posted by Nelson Pass
... smuggle it in ...
|
Only in this way also for me ... ??? |
|
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| Nelson Pass |
Well, last time I looked, you don't have to literally smuggle
them in, although that approach is more adventurous. You
can bring them in personally by going through a bunch of
paperwork. Distributors, on the other hand, have to actually
obtain emi and safety certifications if they want to bring in
more than samples. |
|
|
| MikeW |
| What will the voltage rails be? +/- 20 and 40?:devilr: |
|
|
| Nelson Pass |
| At the moment, 24 |
|
|
| jh6you |
Could it be...???
Could I instead buy a bunch of papers and get allowance to build one or maximum two? |
|
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| MikeW |
| Has First Watt started shipping? |
|
|
| Nelson Pass |
No, First Watt is still monkeying around and tweaking the
prototype run. :cool: |
|
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| mrothacher |
| Would you like some volunteers for a focus group? |
|
|
| Netlist |
| What about some Beta-testers? :D |
|
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| GRollins |
Focus group?
Beta tester?
I'd rather be part of the skunk works. I'd have an official excuse to rip into the pile of scrawled ideas that I keep tripping over.
Grey |
|
|
| mrothacher |
See...
Even Grey likes the skunk works idea!:cool: |
|
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| MikeW |
| Any prices?:clown: :D |
|
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| Nelson Pass |
We're still trying to figure out what we can get away with.
;) |
|
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| mrothacher |
| Try to align pricing with our tax refund!;) |
|
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| Nelson Pass |
| I didn't get a tax refund :bawling: |
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| MEGA-amp |
| I havent even done my taxes yet, OH NO. Dont tell anybody!!! :eek: |
|
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| b-square |
| A refund just means you were giving the government an interest-free loan. Probably a small consolation when you were hoping for cash to buy more parts ;) |
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