| stappvargen |
Hello all,
Here are som pics of my alephP. I'm not sure if I can recommend doing this P2P as it has given me several headaches so far. Looks like a birds nest, I know... :)
Hope everyone had a good X-Mas!
/Niclas |
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| stappvargen |
| Another pic... |
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| stappvargen |
| And the last pic... |
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| Fuling |
| Looks like a mess, a nice good sounding mess:D |
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| Devil_H@ck |
That's exactly why I think I'll never try P2P :D.
I hope it will work ;). |
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| stappvargen |
Fuling wrote:| quote: | | Looks like a mess, a nice good sounding mess |
I certainly hope so. Only tested one channel so far, but the results are promising. With some luck (and girlfriends permission!) I will complete it within a weeks time.
Devil_H@ck wrote:
| quote: | | That's exactly why I think I'll never try P2P |
:D |
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| stappvargen |
Netlist wrote:
Looks like my P2P! :D
Netlist wrote:| quote: | | It will all take us a long way to achieve Peter Daniel's P2P. So don't worry |
I'm not worried. Maybe Peter Daniel does his P2P too good! The unnormal symmetry pics up radio stations and such which is why he prefers the sound of his gainclone to zens and alephs! (No offence meant Peter) :cool: |
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| Peter Daniel |
I'm building my Alephs in p2p as well;)
Here's my attempt at P1.7 preamp. I started it a year ago but didn't have enough motivation to finish. But eventually I'll make it;) |
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| Peter Daniel |
And here's the overview of whole thing. As you see, the circuit doesn't take much space and everything including pot is mounted to a rear panel. The coupling caps suppose to be between rear panel and heatsink assembly. The rest of chassis space will be devoted to PS only.
I was planing on 2 inputs only, switched by relays (one per channel) |
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| stappvargen |
Beautiful as always Peter! :bigeyes:
Your dedication to perfection is extremly impressive. I thought I had a tight layout...
If you only have one attenuator per channel I guess it's at the input (same as me)? If so, is it a stepped ladded or shunted to ground config? |
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| Peter Daniel |
| Actually, it's at the output (as per original design), shunting between positive and negative outputs. |
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| JasonL |
| Fujitsu life Book.. Good pick Peter.. |
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| trigon |
What you guys are using for 10uf caps. I have just ordered WIMA MKP 10uf / 160v DC
Any advice???
Trigon |
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| Drafance007 |
my good this guy has a lot of time and nervss.....
i could never make something like this to work... |
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| jh6you |
Peter's resitors look like winter cockroaches gathered around warm heaters. :)
By the way, one of the reasons why I, a DIYer, prefer p2p is to gain more fun in trying to clearly understand the overall physical circuit.
Hope your good success. |
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| zygibajt |
Niclas
It looks nice ,but I think too many parts are flying in the air,swinging and vibrating on their legs.Try to stiffen as much parts as possible ,becouse it might not work good (I have some expirence in p2p).
Try to glue those big electroilityc and foil caps to this brass bar,that's for sure.
Bartek |
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| zygibajt |
| Whole p2p should create a stiff frame. |
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| zygibajt |
| With all the heavier parts like caps either glued or screwed to base. |
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| eLarson |
Bartek - great advice and a motivator for me to try the rebuild of my I-sourced BOSOZ without the perfboard "training wheels" this time. ;)
What gauge wire did you use in the pictured circuit? I'm guessing that helps with the stiffness of the frame a great deal.
Erik |
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| stappvargen |
Bartek:
Thanks for the advice. Interesting that you find that a stiffer suspention yeilds a better result. This has not always been the case for me. I often attempt to lower the mechanical resonance frequency of a chassis, often by air suspention (hoses) and big granite slabs (gravestones!). This method gives a frequency of around 1.5Hz (from shelf to chassis). My thinking was that a flying circuit acts like a spring and in so doing lowers res. freq., I'm probably wrong. But either way I would agree that it feels better to connect everything securly inside. Your P2P looks great by the way!
Peter:
A couple of questions reguarding the attenuator at the output: Have you given any thought as to which range of resistor values you will use? Is there any bad side effects with having just one attenuator for a balanced signal as opposed to two?
/Niclas
Just to verify that I understood you correctly I've attached a circuit diagram: |
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| stappvargen |
jh6you wrote:| quote: | | Hope your good success. |
Thank you.
I have enjoyed following your progress on your X-ed ZEN V2s! I'm thinking about trying something similar but starting from the zenV4 instead. Just haven't figured out how to x it just yet...
/Niclas |
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| zygibajt |
| quote: | | This has not always been the case for me. I often attempt to lower the mechanical resonance frequency of a chassis, often by air suspention |
I think it doesn't work that way for circuit components.
The capacitors or other parts can't be shaking and vibrationg becouse they are loosely mounted on their legs.
I once put together Aleph 3 clone using p2p and all components were loosely mounted like on the second picture of this thread of Yours.When I gave a kick to the heatsinks on which everything was mounted all the heavy parts started to shake and vibrate.
I connected the circuit and it sounded awfull,also there was some cracking in the speakers.I was looking for some bad connections or components for two weeks...nothing.I glued some heavier parts to the chassis and it got better,but when I put all the parts on PCB it all worked just great from the first time.I don't know what was it,vibrations ,mocrophonics or whatever but I learned a lot.Also expirenced similar things more times and always making components stiff with the chassis made things work.
Lowering the mechanical resonance frequency of a chassis is probably another,diffrent thing.
Bartek |
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| zygibajt |
| quote: | | What gauge wire did you use in the pictured circuit? I'm guessing that helps with the stiffness of the frame a great deal |
i don't think it is such important.I use thicker (1,0 or 1,5mm) wires for PS and Ground and thinner (0,5mm) for signal. |
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| stappvargen |
Bartek wrote:| quote: | I think it doesn't work that way for circuit components.
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Maybe you are right. Can you motivate why?
| quote: | | The capacitors or other parts can't be shaking and vibrationg becouse they are loosely mounted on their legs. |
I'm sorry, but I don't understand what you mean. Why can't a loosely mounted component shake/vibrate? Seems like the opposite is true.
| quote: | | Lowering the mechanical resonance frequency of a chassis is probably another,diffrent thing. |
Why would it be diffrent? On the one side we try to prevent vibrations from finding its way into our circuitry and on the other we try to lead mechanical energy away from our circuitry. So won't all environmental issues add to this equation (how circuitry is fixated, chassis dampening/suspention, etc)?
How do you like the sound of your Aleph 3 after all your modifications?
Reguards,
Niclas |
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| zygibajt |
Niclas,
I think you don't understand what I mean.
If you take this brass bar from picture two of this thread with all it's components in your hand and shake it the the heavy caps mounted on long thin legs will be vibrating much longer than the bar itself.
It's like with speaker stands.They have to be as heavy as possible to dumb the vibration,but the speaker shuld be mounted rigid to the stand and the stand should be rigid mounted to the floor to make things working.
Bartek
Sorry If I'm not clear. |
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| stappvargen |
Good morning Bartek!
| quote: | | If you take this brass bar from picture two of this thread with all it's components in your hand and shake it the the heavy caps mounted on long thin legs will be vibrating much longer than the bar itself. |
Agreed. Although I'm not convinced this translates to worse sound.
| quote: | | It's like with speaker stands.They have to be as heavy as possible to dumb the vibration,but the speaker shuld be mounted rigid to the stand and the stand should be rigid mounted to the floor to make things working. |
Yes, this generally gives good, consisent results. But, again, I have had experiences where another approach has given me subjectively better results. And this by using a simple air hose with a concreet slab on top, then the speaker standing on top of the slab (it was a floormount). Rigid mounting amounts to a rise in resonance, air (or spring) mounting amount to a decrese in resonant freq. (at least in my findings).
If the alephP doesn't give me the results I was expecting I promise you that I will attempt to mount all heavy components as rigidly as possble. Once again, I really appeciate your advice! :)
/Niclas |
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| moe29 |
Peter and Zygibajt's examples of point to point wiring clearly
demonstrate that there is an art to this type of circuit building!
I would need steb-by-step instructions to even attempt pulling off
point to point that nice looking. Like everything else i'm sure a lot
of practice and building is in their history too. You don't just sit
down and pick up a guitar and start pickin' like Eric Clapton ;)
nice exchange of ideas, i look forward to hearing how it turns out
for you Niclas! Be sure to report back. |
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| zygibajt |
Niclas,
I might be wrong.
I just wanted to share my epirences.
Most of the projects I'm building I do p2p way.
And I epirenced some problems with loosely mounted parts and mostly not becouse of the sound but becouse it didn't even worked properly when mounted that way(I'm not quite sure why,though).
I really like your p2p from picture one of this thread.
Good luck with your project!
Bartek |
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| stappvargen |
moe29 wrote:| quote: | Peter and Zygibajt's examples of point to point wiring clearly demonstrate that there is an art to this type of circuit building!
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Yes. They both make it look easy.
| quote: | | Be sure to report back. |
Give me a couple of weeks and I will! :D
Bartek wrote:
Me too! You know how it is. Audio can drive anybody crazy. I did some experiments a few years ago concerning dampening and the like and now choose to take them as facts mearly because thinking about it all the time gave me no peace of mind. (I must have a mild form of autism...round and round my thoughts go and seldom foward). If I were to do it again today I might reach another conclusion. But I dare not go there just now!
;)
I'll fasten the bigger caps and bridges of course, but I actually think that the caps on the main circuit are securly fastened by all the other components (hope so at least!). Time to go back to the hot iron! |
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