| Jason |
SitePoint who have kindly been hosting diyAudio for free for the last 4 years have recently moved servers and this one will be shutting up shop soon. No cause for alarm - we'll have plenty of notice before the plug is pulled ;)
In all seriousness though, we're looking for a new server, which means either somebody could donate some space on one of their boxes, or we could put round the hat and go get hosted at a pay-for place.
If anyone does have a spare box, all I need is the keys - I know linux and webserver configuration very well.
Anyway, consider this a first round message, we'll see if we catch any fish! :)
Cheers!
Jason! |
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| li_gangyi |
| it's gonna be hard trying to find someone with the bandwidth thoguh...how much are we looking at?? |
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| AudioFreak |
If i remember correctly.
Approx 1GB database
Approx 30GB outgoing
Approx 5GB incoming
those are monthly stats. |
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| Jason |
We've been working on getting it down as much as possible, but the stats at the moment are roughly:
Bandwidth: 30GB / month
Database: 1GB
Requirements: Should run on a basic PHP/MySQL
Disk space: 100M - though a few GB would be nice for the odd database manipulation |
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| Netlist |
What would the cost be for a pay-server?
Also, are there rough estimates on how DiyAudio will grow and what space and bandwidth will be needed in a couple of years?
/Hugo |
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| dhaen |
| quote: | Originally posted by AudioFreak
If i remember correctly.
Approx 1GB database
Approx 30GB outgoing
Approx 5GB incoming
those are monthly stats. |
Hey, if we "lost" the 4 most prolific posters, we could half that :D |
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| RobWells |
I wouldn't begrudge paying an annual subscription for this site. It could help filter out some 'noise' - As long as it was affordable for most people....
Rob |
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| jwb |
Hosting with 50GB/month of bandwidth would cost approx $1800/month (Verio). Probably best to try to find a generous sponsor or to setup a membership program. I'd pay $100/year to belong, if there was some benefit.
Suggested benefits of membership:
Ability to see long threads as one page
Unlimited searching
Ability to use HTML |
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| li_gangyi |
| An average gun with DSL...say 512down and 256up...wun be able to carry the traffic right?? What's a reccommended transfer?? |
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| jwb |
I'm blown away by the 30GB/month bandwidth usage! The first page of this thread requires a 70KB transfer. I took the first six comments and reduced the markup to less than 4KB. Scaling linearly, this should be about 10KB per page, an 85% reduction.
I didn't include a lot of the navigation and peripheral junk, but my mockup is functionally and visually equivalent to the main part of the page. Some of the typefaces may differ, but that's a simple matter of style and I don't want to spend my whole life working on this. I hope it may give you some ideas on reducing the size of your responses.
Tested in Mozilla, IE, and Safari:
http://saturn5.com/~jwb/contest/diy.html
Cheers,
jwb |
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| jwb |
| I should also mention that I have at my disposal many Linux boxes and an idle 1.5Mbps SDSL connection. What does your peak throughput look like? |
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| AudioFreak |
| Almost everything on the site uses GZip so actual individual transfers are much smaller than one would think. The bandwidth usage is mostly due to the fact that we serve about 20 million pages a month not to mention all the images etc. |
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| Bricolo |
| Maybe you should consider advertising banners :( |
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| AudioFreak |
| Indeed there are a number of revenue generating options that we are considering and likely to adopt in the future. However, we really need to aquire a new server in the next 4 weeks. Ideally, if someone could host us for the next 12 - 18 months for free, it would give me time to get revenue generating features operational so we could then move to paid hosting if the need be with the means in place to support the costs. Otherwise I'm sure that a beg-a-thon is not far away. |
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| li_gangyi |
| ...maybe my friend can get you guys hosted for a while...I'll contact him and him him through to u guys... |
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| soundNERD |
Or This
www.aspfreeserver.com
free hosting
100meg space
ftp access
php access
mysql
unlimited bandwith |
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| AudioFreak |
Again, our database is 1GB.
None of the commercial free places will be much use to us for 3 reasons.
1. We need a domain not a www.blahblahblah.com/users/diyaudio style address
2. Our database is really big.
3. We get huge amounts of traffic.
When I say we are looking for free hosting, I mean we need one of the members here to donate us some space on a box they have. |
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| soundNERD |
| Sorry, I thought you said you need 100MB storage, and you transfer 1GB per month from the database. also the second site i said doesn't support mysql, only php |
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| soundNERD |
If I may suggest just one more site,
www.radish.net
$50 a year
1GB storage
40GB/Month
unlimited mysql
it looks like it supports php ( i think thats what the x means)
1 domain
i don't think $50 / year is too bad. Is it? |
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| SkinnyBoy |
| quote: | Originally posted by soundNERD
i don't think $50 / year is too bad. Is it? |
Members can donate a dollar a year... then whats left over can be put towards a prize, and we can have competitions and stuff.. :D |
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| li_gangyi |
| Hmmm...what kinda traffic are we looking for PEAK?? Like Instantaneous...10mbps?? |
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| AudioFreak |
SoundNERD,
1GB storage is not enough. Our database on it's own is 1GB and it continues to grow rapidly so we need far more than that to allow for growth and also the rest of the site which probably requires 100MB.
li_gangyi,
we've spent the last 4 yrs sitting on the back of fibre pipes (oh what a pleasure) but yes we could get by (pretty easily during peaks) on a 10Mbps ethernet line assuming there is not much other traffic on that same feed. The rest of the time, 10Mbps would be a breeze. |
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| li_gangyi |
| then that's gonna be bad...we have a spare rig here...K7 10GB running nux...but bandwidth sux... |
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| AudioFreak |
2 things.. anyone that posts server stats could they please include the following ...
CPU
RAM
HDD
OS
MYSQL and PHP support
Bandwidth
Monthly Traffic allowance
li_gangyi,
What bandwidth are you talking when you say 'bad'?
If worst comes to worst, we may have to limit the number of ppl that come to the board at any one time. However, I would sooner see us go to paid hosting than see that happen. |
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| li_gangyi |
ok here's the rig...I can throw in mine...
AMD Athlon Xp 2000+
256MB DDR Ram
20Gb HDD
I dun think u need care about my Gfx Card...
512ADSL connection (256kb up)
Now that really sux... |
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| AudioFreak |
| Both the RAM and connection would never handle it but thanks for the offer. |
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| pavell |
I can propose a host time of 12 months for a hosted service.
The queen croq plan at hostgator.com
6GB harddisk space
50GB bandwith/month
Good support.
Mail me if interested. |
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| jwb |
Okay, my 1.5Mbps SDSL wouldn't be up to the heavy lifting of your peak throughput it appears. Too bad, I can dedicate an SMP/RAID box to it.
Anyway, I'll throw in one more datapoint, and that's the local hosting service I use, Speakeasy. I pay $120/month for:
Hosting on redundant Linux cluster
CPU/RAM unknown
2GB quota + $5/50MB over quota, on NetApp SAN
Linux 2.4
Mysql 3
PHP 4.3
Twin OC3 to major backbones, unlimited transfer |
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| elizard |
What about building a box (shouldn't cost too much at all) and trying to find someone willing enough to plug it into their network? Sometimes that's a lot more feasible if someone doesn't want their resources chewed up by one single site (cpu usage/db usage/hd space)
Its basically finding someone to co-host the box for free. |
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| li_gangyi |
| I think there's actually such a service...there is one is Singapore. Where you can put a machine online...not sure about ur side though...it's not really cheap...but has great speed..they use a T1 over here... |
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| karma |
i to have a lot of rack servers. and a server room dedicated for the servers. but all i have is 2 cablemodems. hmm you could
save a few bucks if you got rid of people posting pics. but that would suck:D |
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| karma |
specs on one rack server dual p3 600 3gig ecc ram 15 ultra wide
scsi drives 18 giges each. i can get bigger |
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| karma |
best bet would be a dedicated host i have used godaddy and found thay have a good service and here cheap:)
http://www.godaddy.com |
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| pavell |
Okay,
this means that my offer for a year subscription is cancelled. |
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| AudioFreak |
Thanks for your kind offers everyone.
godaddy will not be an option due to the low hdd usage they allow.
karma and jwb,
I may be in touch with you.
As far as connection goes, we could probably litterally scrape by with about 3 or 4 Mbps (during peaks) with noticeable slowdown to end users at present but this allows pretty much no future expandability during our tenure at our next host. 6 - 8Mbps would be alot more comfortable for the time being. 10Mbps during peak would allow for projected growth with off peak average probably still sitting around 2 - 3Mbps.
So,
Perhaps if someone is willing to offer a suitable box to act as server and someone else is able to offer cheap or free co-hosting, we may have something.
Our main requirements for a server are a few GB of HDD space (hardware raid 5 preferred) and lots of RAM. I've done huge amounts of work to keep our CPU usage low and it continues to be so low that it hardly registers alot of the time on the dual p3 box we are currently running on (and I've still got a few tricks up my sleeve to get it even lower) so CPU usage is much less of a concern than HDD and RAM. |
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| fdegrove |
Hi,
I've got a spare server.
It's not doing anything other than store some DVDs which I'd be happy to delete...
My main objection is I just can't afford to have this beast running 24/7 and the noise of the fans would drive me nuts too.
I'm open to suggestions and I wouldn't mind selling it but it's a machine worth well over 20.000 AUD...
If you need details or want more info, I'm happy to help.
Hate to see all those posts go into the digital null....
Cheers,;) |
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| AudioFreak |
fdegrove,
Please supply specs as per my earlier post. |
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| AudioFreak |
| quote: | Originally posted by soundNERD
Did you check out plan 2 or 3? plan 2 offers 2GB storage and plan 3 has 10GB.
it costs more, but i almost like the 1$/year thing. |
It's not ideal but it's worth keeping in mind. I'm rather busy at the moment could you please try and find out what CPU and RAM allowances one is given, also what is the bandwidth (ie. Mbps etc) supplied and backup options (onsite / offsite / cost / frequency etc.) on Plan 3. |
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| fdegrove |
Hi Dan,
The mobo is an Intel LG440GX built into a Astor II Intel case.
As it stands it has 2 PIII 800Mhz CPUs and 512MB of ECC memory.
It's a full SCSI + IDE system using a Mylex SCSI Ultra II PCI raid controller card allowing for a 160 Mbs transfer. Its controlled by a backplane board by Intel allowing for five scsi disks. (Not sure but I think the backplane reduces throughput to 80mBs)
Bios is latest spec and the disk configuration is a mirror of 2*9 GB disks containing OS and swap file plus 3*36GB Quantum disks configured as a stripe set.
It can take more, much more as I'm sure you realise:
The raid controller can be updated, memory can go up to 1GB, disk capacity can be both extended and made faster with new raid controller.
There's also a floppy drive and a SCSI Plextor CD-R drive (40max)
Currently it runs Win2K SP4 with all latest patches.
I also have a HP Surestore 1200e robot tape backup device to go with it and plenty of tapes and software...
If this machine can be of use to diyAudio, let me know what you're thinking of.
Best regards,;) |
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| soundNERD |
unlimited bandwith, 10 domains, 50gb/month, unlimited pop3 email, email aliases and mysql, cgi, peral, easy backup/restore, ssi, php4, stats, fast gige connection, 99.9% uptime, toll free support, instant activation, $20 setup and monthly, $240/yr
thats for the second plan. all the information is at www.radish.net on the homepage.
i also have a website www.electronet.5u.com with a small bb, and worst thing is you point visitors there for a while. i only have about 20megs, though and not unlimited cgi access.
let us know what you decide |
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| AudioFreak |
soundNERD,
If you could please read my post again. The info I asked for was not supplied on their website which is why I asked if you could get in contact with them and find out for me.
fdegrove,
I wont say that we have a use for your machine at present but I'll certainly keep it in mind, if we eventually get paid hosting, we will need rack servers etc so I'm hoping that that is what we can aquire now.
All,
At present, I'm considering the option of getting a donated database server and then finding someone willing to network it to a shared server (ie. colocate the database server in the same server farm as a shared or virtual private webserver) that will then just have to do the php / apache stuff generally requiring much lower specs on the webserver. It's quite easy to get affordable paid hosting with high bandwidth if you dont need huge RAM and HDD resources. All offers, ideas and suggestions welcome. |
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| fdegrove |
Hi,
| quote: | | we will need rack servers etc so I'm hoping that that is what we can aquire now. |
Afraid I'm all too well aware of the situation but what's Sitepoint position on this?
I can only offer what I have at an at cost basis but I have a nagging feeling that's not going to suffice in the long run.
We'll have to sort this prob once and for all, paying members or not won't you say?
Wish I could be of greater help.
Keep us informed.
Sincerely, :) |
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| AudioFreak |
Sitepoint's position is basically that they dont have a spot on their new server for us. So that's that. I appreciate the nature of the facts and certainly appreciate the offer you have made. I'm more just stating the obvious for others that are lurking that might be able to help. As I said before, we might find a use for that box, maybe not, hard to say really. In the mean time, offers are still most welcome. I can't rest on this until I know we have a new home to go to. I smell a beg-a-thon drawing ever nearer.
ps. I dont believe that this site will become a paid members only place ever (well I hope it doesn't) so we are considering all the options available to us without limitting access to those that are financial contributors. |
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| fdegrove |
Hi,
| quote: | | Sitepoint's position is basically that they dont have a spot on their new server for us. |
O.K. but this can be solved, we have enough members to save the forum.
I've no idea about how urgent this is but if you want to discuss it privately, be my guest.
I suppose you guys did ask Sitepoint about the cost of running the service on a pro annum basis already so you'd have some idea of what to look for already?
How about some sponsoring from the bigger audio players, etc?
Would members really object to paying a membership fee?
Do what you must do, Dan, you've got all our support, surely :att'n:
Cheers,;) |
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| AudioFreak |
| quote: | Originally posted by fdegrove
O.K. but this can be solved, we have enough members to save the forum. |
Yes I believe you are right there. We just need to find the right members that can provide what we need.
| quote: | Originally posted by fdegrove
I've no idea about how urgent this is but if you want to discuss it privately, be my guest. |
Really need to sort a new server out in the next 4 weeks.
| quote: | Originally posted by fdegrove
I suppose you guys did ask Sitepoint about the cost of running the service on a pro annum basis already so you'd have some idea of what to look for already? |
Costs will be totally dependant on what we end up settling for and can vary by an order of magnitude or more. I also know that we will not be hosted on Sitepoint's server.
| quote: | Originally posted by fdegrove
How about some sponsoring from the bigger audio players, etc? |
Certainly something we are already looking into.
| quote: | Originally posted by fdegrove
Would members really object to paying a membership fee? |
From a quick bit of research I did, I would say that there are quite a few that would and or simply dont have the economic means to do so.
| quote: | Originally posted by fdegrove
Do what you must do, Dan, you've got all our support, surely :att'n: |
I sure hope so. |
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| elizard |
well, whatever happens happens, but if the basket is passed around sometime next year (hopefully no earlier than february, broke tillt then), i'd surely pitch in
this site's been VERY useful for me, and its got super friendly people
But, I don't think that it becoming a pay-site would work. Most people would just leave/etc.
I think there are enough people on here that would donate to keep it running for a while though. I know there's many a generous person on here (personal experience w/ peter mainly!) to keep this place going. |
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| AudioFreak |
| I think the basket is gonna start being passed around in approx. 1 week time if we dont have the issue sorted out before then. |
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| elizard |
| quote: | Originally posted by AudioFreak
I think the basket is gonna start being passed around in approx. 1 week time if we dont have the issue sorted out before then. |
Well I hope its still around in mid-february since I won't have any money until then :(
If worst comes to worst, maybe having an e-bay "garage" sale w/ people's old parts would help .. |
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| li_gangyi |
| I'll chip in if u giuys need a donation of parts...lotsa parts lying arund for sure... |
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| Elso Kwak |
| How about a fee related to the total number of posts of the member in question?:clown: |
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| moamps |
| quote: | Originally posted by fdegrove
Hate to see all those posts go into the digital null.... |
Me too.| quote: | | Would members really object to paying a membership fee? |
I'm ready (cc please). | quote: | | Do what you must do, Dan, you've got all our support, surely |
May the DIY Force be with you.| quote: | | Originally posted by AudioFreak I dont believe that this site will become a paid members only place ever (well I hope it doesn't) so we are considering all the options available to us without limitting access to those that are financial contributors. |
I agree.
Regards |
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| fdegrove |
Hi,
| quote: | | How about a fee related to the total number of posts of the member in question? |
Didn't have the flu or something?:D
Cheers,;) |
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| RobWells |
Levels of membership ?
bronze - 5 posts per day, no attatchments
silver - 10 posts per day, attatchments
gold - unlimited
Rob |
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| Netlist |
IMHO there should be no hierarchy on membership.
Not on a post basis, not on an eventual financial contribution basis.
Knowledge and a nice group of different and helpful people is the heart of DiyAudio.
I’m sure many people have parts lying around to build a server in real Diy-style.
Shipping costs of all these parts to a central point and making them work, finding out they don’t fit too good, are incompatible or whatever may occur is not an option.
A good machine doesn’t cost that much anymore these days. Relatively speaking of course.
If we would go for the beg-a-thon, I’m sure we will be able to raise enough funds within the forum. That would at least solve one major problem.
/Hugo - CC to Moamps ;) |
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| RobWells |
""IMHO there should be no hierarchy on membership.
Not on a post basis, not on an eventual financial contribution basis.
Knowledge and a nice group of different and helpful people is the heart of DiyAudio""
I fully agree, however I think it's the cost of the bandwidth thats a problem, rather than the cost of a server. If we all just chip in for a server, and the box is hosted somewhere for free then great. I thought it was the data throughput that was costing, hence my idea of the different levels...
I'd rather not pay but I come here a lot, have been given (for free!) lots of useful info off of people and don't mind investing back into that, if needs be.
Cheers
Rob |
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| avatar307 |
Ok, my thirty-two cents.
I think the idea of members auctioning off their spare parts on eBay and donating part of the proceeds to DIYAudio is a great idea. I think an effort to mount such a project should be started immediately, and advertised on DIYAudio and anywhere else possible. Hell, as I am on break right now, I would even volunteer to supervise such a project.
I think paid membership is definately an idea worth exploring, but one that should be explored very cautiously. There is a lot of validity in the fact that some people will leave if they have to pay too much. Some are lurkers that won't be missed; however, others might just be quiet until they learn enough to have something worthwild to say.
However, I think 80% of the people who access this site daily/weekly would be more than happy to part with $5/year. I know I would, and I'm a poor college student that doesn't have much time to read even 1% of the posts. That could quickly add up to enough money to pay for hosting and a server.
A membership hierarchy is not a bad idea; however, it must be approached in such a way as to not damage the quality and content of the forums.
For example, not letting free members post attachments at all would result in a loss of content. Instead, limit the number of attachments per month to 5-10. Everything else can go by E-mail. Further limiting the size of any attachment to like 50k would cut down on bandwith. If a file larger than that needed to be uploaded, the user could secure a moderators permission before posting. I see a lot of images here that I have to maximize my browser to see, and that is just way too large for a forum attachment.
Limiting the number of posts members can post, should also be approached cautiously. I would say a limit of 5/posts a day for a free member would be sufficent. However, that limit could be raised as most of the free members would be lurkers that were not posting anyway. If we limit the number of posts though, I expect we will see a great increase in the length of posts... though I would greatly prefer that over all these 2 sentence replies that are either completely off topic or are worded in such a way they make no sense.
Along the same lines as this, I object to the comment about making the site 100% free for lurkers and really expensive for those people who post often. This is 100% counter productive to the quality and content of the forums. The people who know the most, are the ones who answer the most questions, and thereby create the quality of content that is so high on this site. If we make the site free for lurkers and then charge the people with the answers $100/month, this site will go straight down the toilet.
Along those same lines, perhaps after creating a paid membership program there could be an equivelent program to give tenative lifetime memberships to users who repected the forum rules, wrote posts that are worthwild, answered questions, and generally knew what they were talking about.
People like Planet10, Peter Daniel, Serten, and 50 other member that I am leaving out, account for a lot of the posts but they also account for a lot of the knowledge that is brought into this forum. So what if they post more, that just means they are posting more stuff that makes this place better. They should not be punished by paying more. However, there are some users out there that never jibbersih, small talk, or BSing, and I could do without having to scroll through that. There is a lot of stuff that should be put into private messages that is not, and that fills up the database.
As far as a permanet source of revenue to pay for bandwith and upgrades to a server. I find it very suprising that companies like Rockford Fosgate aren't jumping to be part of this site. I would think that a little icon, or even a banner at the bottom of the page, would be worth $50/month to them.
Hmm... perhaps the creation of a DIYAudio Store where we could sell audio componets direct from the manufactuer? That is if the manufactuers would pay minimal fees to have their items advertised here. The creation of an actual store and the proceeds paying for the site would likely consume way too much labor, overhead, and storage space to be worthwild.
If we could get some companies on-board, I think the problem would disappear in the long run. As the bigger DIYAudio becomes, the more money that will come in. Yearly subscriptions are going to put people off, unless they have the option of being a free member if they don't take advantage of the paid benifits. However, I bet if we put the begging basket out there, lots of people would chip in because I do not think anyone wants to see this site disappear.
Obviously, any of these options is going to take time to impliment. Thus, it is crucial we find somewhere to host the site in the meantime. 6-18 months should be plenty of time to find a permanent solution, and I would hope someone had a jack they could spare. Even if it comes down to AudioFreak configuring the server and shipping it to someone, and that person plugging it into a jack under their desk. ROFL (Risky though, the site might up and disappear for periods of time as the box is shipped around. Perhaps more than one person using redunant servers on opposite sides of the nation... yeah, that could get sticky!)
I work for a University in the data communications department. It might be possible for me to find a place to hide a server, and monitor its' bandwith close enough to keep it hidden. However, this would have to only be a short-term solution. We're currently running a DS3 and not hitting peak usage during any period... so I may be able to help.
One final comment. Would our current hosting company be willing to continue to host the site if we provided the server and paid them for the bandwith? I would hope as they have thus far had good dealings with AudioFreak and this site being on their server, that they would be willing to let us have some bandwith and rack space for a reduced cost.
And now I shall shut up, as I've said way more than I needed to.
-MC |
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| elizard |
| quote: | Originally posted by avatar307
I think the idea of members auctioning off their spare parts on eBay and donating part of the proceeds to DIYAudio is a great idea. I think an effort to mount such a project should be started immediately, and advertised on DIYAudio and anywhere else possible. Hell, as I am on break right now, I would even volunteer to supervise such a project.
|
Thanks. I figured there are plenty people out there with "junk" in their box that'd be willing to part with it, and plenty more that would pay some dear money for that "junk" :)
| quote: | Originally posted by avatar307
For example, not letting free members post attachments at all would result in a loss of content. Instead, limit the number of attachments per month to 5-10. Everything else can go by E-mail. Further limiting the size of any attachment to like 50k would cut down on bandwith. If a file larger than that needed to be uploaded, the user could secure a moderators permission before posting. I see a lot of images here that I have to maximize my browser to see, and that is just way too large for a forum attachment.
Limiting the number of posts members can post, should also be approached cautiously. I would say a limit of 5/posts a day for a free member would be sufficent. However, that limit could be raised as most of the free members would be lurkers that were not posting anyway. If we limit the number of posts though, I expect we will see a great increase in the length of posts... though I would greatly prefer that over all these 2 sentence replies that are either completely off topic or are worded in such a way they make no sense.
|
One solution to this, as you hinted to it, is limiting number of images first of all, and limiting number of posts. After the users go over their limit, their posts don't get rejected, but get put in a queue where an admin can review them and either reject, or push them through. Daily, weekely, and possibly monthly quotas should be in effect for limits though, and pooling of posts (use 1 today, carry over 4 for tomorrow) should definitely be disallowed.
I also like your idea of a diy audio store. Imagine the number of people who would buy from it if there is competitive pricing! Its only useful for rarer things, like heatsinks, cases, transformers, and other hard to find and exotic components. I don't know whether the manufacturers would allow such deals though, for diyaudio to carry their stuff, but it would be neat to see the board evolve to a parts shop too :) (a *little* high on startup costs, but decent returns i'll bet! with chapters all over the world!!! and now i'm getting carried away)
One last idea is to allow people to donate their "skills" to fund diyaudio. Things like make pcbs for people where they'd charge a set price, and a part of the proceeds would go to diyaudio, or build an amp for someone (there are plenty lurkers who ask to have stuff built for them b/c they're too lazy .. why not take advantage of them?)
Probably the best solution is to pass the donation basket around, move to a paid server for a short amount of time (under a year hopefully) while we try to find a better solution. The important part is to select a company that's reliable enough, and has enough resources to support an actie site like this.
One last suggestion, not sure if its feasible. Well, I know it is, but it'll take work to implement.
Store new content on a server, and store all old content on a different server. And when someone makes a post to the old content, switch servers. Advantage to this is using a free host to store the old content since it wouldn't require near enough bandwidth.
The other obvious advantage is that the required bandwith for the new host will be reduced, although I can't estimate how much or how little w/o examining the log files.
The caveats of this design is synchronising the 2 databases. I'm a comp sci major, and I can already see one thousand problems with having a database split like this, although I am convinced its quite possible with a bit of work.
Edit: Forgot about this. One advantage to having a server co-located commercially (having paid for doing so), we can sell the bandwidth as well to other people. Some people want a small site hosted for a nominal fee, so diyaudio could do that. Others might want a commercial site hosted for a little more, but less than most other people. Basically have a server that could eventually pay for itself (although one must be careful not to oversell, thus bogging down the system!) |
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| karma |
diy audio store. sell t-shirts ill buy em :D
works on other sites |
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| AudioFreak |
Karma,
Please answer the email I sent you last night. |
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| avatar307 |
| I would buy a T-shirt... now who wants to come up with a design? And who wants to find a screen printer? And who wants to store all the boxes? LOL -MC |
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| Bricolo |
Nice idea :)
I would be OK to buy a DiyAudio.com T-Shirt, which cost would integrate the participation for the server |
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| AudioFreak |
T-shirts etc will eventually be on offer but all take quite some time to organise. In the short term I'll probably officially start a beg-a-thon in about a week.
karma and jwb,
please respond to the emails I have sent both of you as a matter of urgency. |
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| Paul Ranson |
I asked a friend of mine who runs an ISP how much 30GB a month would cost and he suggested that it would start at $60. But he thought the ideal solution for this type of site was to run it at home on an ADSL connection.
A moments thought shows that at 256kb outgoing 30GB would take about 10 days. So it's plausible.
Paul |
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| elizard |
| On the idea of shirts, I can get some high quality embroidery done. I'm a friend of a friend of someone who does it. The only high cost part is the setup and digitizing the image, the rest should be fairly cheap. When it comes time for that, I can find out about the prices. |
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| li_gangyi |
| I want a shirt~!!! Maybe some think kinda "customisable" with different coloured backgrounds and some designs...whu's gonna design it though?? |
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| AudioFreak |
| quote: | Originally posted by Paul Ranson
I asked a friend of mine who runs an ISP how much 30GB a month would cost and he suggested that it would start at $60. But he thought the ideal solution for this type of site was to run it at home on an ADSL connection.
A moments thought shows that at 256kb outgoing 30GB would take about 10 days. So it's plausible.
Paul |
If you averaged out our traffic over a month, it would suggest that 256Kbps would be plenty but because sometimes we have 10 people viewing the site and other times there are 600 people viewing the site, 256Kbps wont come close to being able to handle the peaks. |
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| Paul Ranson |
| quote: | | 256Kbps wont come close to being able to handle the peaks. |
Do you have minute by minute stats? Looking at a UK based (but much smaller) forum the load is actually quite spread, I suppose people access from work as well as home so even without the global smoothing the load is spread over up to 18 hours a day.
Anyway DIY diyaudio.com had an appeal.
Paul |
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| fdegrove |
Hi,
| quote: | | 256Kbps wont come close to being able to handle the peaks. |
A 2 to 4 Mbit leased line should be more like it...You need to take the peaks into account, otherwise the whole shebang comes to a grinding halt.
I think is what we're currently using is a 2 Mbit line or better from the responses I measure.
Cheers, ;) |
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| AudioFreak |
| quote: | Originally posted by fdegrove
I think is what we're currently using is a 2 Mbit line or better from the responses I measure. |
We're sitting on the back of a fibre feed at the moment if I remeber correctly.
I'd feel happy enough with 4Mbps or 2x T1's for now. Given the rate that the site is growing, that's only going to last so long though. |
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| elizard |
My suggestion is burstable bandwidth. A lot of places let you purchase say a 2Mbps line, which at peak time is burstable to 10Mbps (arbitrary numbers here people :p).
Of course, you're charged for the peak periods, but as long as peak periods aren't too long (like 1/2 a day, every day), then its ok. That way you're just charged a small premium each day for the bursts, and you're charged a smaller fee for the 2Mbps line. Once the site grows of course, the line can be increased to 3, 4, 5, 10, or 100Mps (lets hope it never gets to the point of actually NEEDING 100Mbps to function!) |
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| AudioFreak |
I've been in contact with a number of the cheaper hosts (host gator, host basket and radish) mentioned here and none of them are willing to host the site unless we use a dedicated server which makes it very expensive.
I still think that we need to persue the idea of having a server donated to us and then using colocation which in the long term is probably the best option. Given that we serve over 20 million pages a month to a couple of hundred thousand unique addresses, the promise of some cheap targetted advertising might be enough to get a company to cover the costs of a new server. Any ideas which companies we could ask?
In the long term, we do need to seriously consider the continued revenue making ability of the site. |
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| jackinnj |
| quote: | Originally posted by AudioFreak
In the long term, we do need to seriously consider the continued revenue making ability of the site. |
I am sure that there would be takers for "naming opportunities" -- i.e. a commercial rate card for prices approximate to what one pay for advertising in Elektor or AudioXpress. Just have the commercial stuff on another page -- the DIYAUDIO.YELLOWPAGES (pages.jaune?) -- and you could just bill monthly via a credit card, PayPal etc. |
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| elizard |
http://www.ev1servers.net
they seem to have some good prices for servers (you 'rent' a server from them) .. about $100-$150/month for a decent server, not sure on the speed/transfer though (says something about 700Gig transfer!!!)
btw, that means that we wouldn't have to get a server of our own
http://www.ev1servers.net/english/all.asp
that's the page listing all the available servers btw |
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| dhaen |
Surely we need to know the location of the hosting service first.
Shipping a server half way round the world makes no sense, and the hardware is the minor cost anyway.
Also, if we use our own server box, we need a maintenance arrangement - backup unit to swap-out, and someone, or list of people who'll do it. |
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| Netlist |
I had to call them back today due to lack of answer. They did not even remember my one day old call so these guys are not an option.
/Hugo |
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| Netlist |
| quote: | Originally posted by AudioFreak
Any ideas which companies we could ask?
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AA has a lot of sponsors. They are not the biggest companies, guess the bigger players will be more difficult.
However.....having your banner at the largest audio forum....
You might need to contact our 'bigger' members for more know-how.
/Hugo |
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| brainchild |
| Hi guys, This is Brainchild from over in the video forum. I run the site http://lumenlab.com where we sell DIY video guides and will soon be selling kits. We host with Pair networks. We'd be willing to host DiyAudio on a pair networks account, 40 gig x-fer/month, 1+gig DB. In exchange we'd like a 'sponsored by' banner on the front page and a permanent thread in the video section or a small lumenlab banner on the video forum. I know this isn't an advertising site but we are grassroots DIY at Lumenlab. If you guys are amenable to this give me a shout: grayson(at)lumenlab.com |
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| AudioFreak |
| quote: | Originally posted by dhaen
Surely we need to know the location of the hosting service first. |
Almost certainly somewhere in the USA.
| quote: | Originally posted by dhaen
Also, if we use our own server box, we need a maintenance arrangement - backup unit to swap-out, and someone, or list of people who'll do it. |
That's what managed hosting and colocation are all about, they charge a fee to 'manage' your box at their site and you tell them what to do.
The difference is, a dedicated server remains the property of the hosting company and they might charge $300 - $500 a month for us to rent and use that server, with colocation, we own the server so their base charge would be more around $100 a month plus options. |
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| AudioFreak |
Brainchild,
You've got mail.
All,
Please keep the offers coming. |
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| fdegrove |
Hi Dan,
| quote: | | - $500 a month for us to rent and use that server, with colocation, we own the server so their base charge would be more around $100 a month plus options. |
Are you sure about this? Owning the server and collocating, I mean...
Anyway, the major concern is to make a decision and have it all transferred with as little disruption as possible.
With the number of members active here that have a vested interest in audio and an interest in keeping this forum live, I'd venture there shouldn't be a major problem in finding sponsors...
The basic rule with sponsoring is keeping them at just that level:
sponsoring; no more, no less...
We don't want sponsors to take over the forum as I'm sure you don't want this either.
Best, ;) |
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| AudioFreak |
Frank,
Yes I've looked at suitable dedicated servers vs. colocation and those figures are indicative of the vast majority.
As for sponsors, a banner on 2 or 3 pages is probably enough to entice them and we wouldn't want to go much further than that. |
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| fdegrove |
Hi,
Dan,
| quote: | | Yes I've looked at suitable dedicated servers vs. colocation and those figures are indicative of the vast majority. |
Okidoki...we need a solution and too fast for comfort, right?
Never a good situation to negociate so I suggest asking Sitepoint/Jason for some more delay.
If that delay needs to be paid for we need to find some way of covering that, but if we go to another company they'll want some cash too or won't they?
So, buy time at Sitepoint and look around if you can. If we can't we're screwed, let's face it.
| quote: | | As for sponsors, a banner on 2 or 3 pages is probably enough to entice them and we wouldn't want to go much further than that. |
Allow me to say so but that's only a concern for the more distant future, first the accomodation to run the forum than the sponsoring will follow...It will, I promise.
Sorry to sound harsh but that's how I see it, I call a spade a spade.
In the meantime I'll try to help anyway I can as you know already from correspondence,;) |
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| elizard |
audiofreak: check out the link i posted (ev1 i think) .. they provide the server and hosting, all for $100-$150/month .. that's GOOD i think
plus the offer from brainchild seems QUITE attractive :) |
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| AudioFreak |
| quote: | Originally posted by fdegrove
we need a solution and too fast for comfort, right?
Never a good situation to negociate so I suggest asking Sitepoint/Jason for some more delay. |
It aint gonna happen. Jason leaves the country for the better part of 12 months on the 1st of February so this need to be sorted out by mid January so this only gives us about 3 weeks.
| quote: | Originally posted by fdegrove
If that delay needs to be paid for we need to find some way of covering that, but if we go to another company they'll want some cash too or won't they? |
Yes unless we are sponsored, we will need cash upfront. The beg-a-thon will probably start a couple of days after christmas.
| quote: | Originally posted by fdegrove
So, buy time at Sitepoint and look around if you can. If we can't we're screwed, let's face it. |
As above, our time with our current server is fast running out and we have no where to move to within Sitepoint paid or otherwise.
| quote: | Originally posted by fdegrove
Allow me to say so but that's only a concern for the more distant future, first the accomodation to run the forum than the sponsoring will follow...It will, I promise.
Sorry to sound harsh but that's how I see it, I call a spade a spade. |
I guess only time will tell.
| quote: | Originally posted by fdegrove
In the meantime I'll try to help anyway I can as you know already from correspondence,;) |
Cheers.
| quote: | Originally posted by elizard
audiofreak: check out the link i posted (ev1 i think) .. they provide the server and hosting, all for $100-$150/month .. that's GOOD i think |
I've just checked ev1 and it looks like we could get something suitable for between $150 - $200 a month but again, the long term sustainability of such cost is somewhat questionable.
| quote: | Originally posted by elizard
plus the offer from brainchild seems QUITE attractive :) |
I'm currently in contact with him to see if we can negotiate a suitable outcome. At present, things certainly look promising.
All,
Again I will ask, please keep the offers coming. I cant rest until we have this sorted out. |
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| elizard |
| One suggestion for the beg-a-thon is a meter to see how much was donated so far (but keep donation annonymous if the donator wants to be anon, otherwise possibly make a "chart" of best donors). That way we have an idea of what has been done so far, we know whether people gave thousands, or thousands of pennies .. |
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| JasonL |
| You know i still can see what i can do about hostnig this on my server at my house for free. Do you want me to see what i can do ? Jason ? Audio Freak ? Only problem is we need a machine. |
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| AudioFreak |
JasonL,
Your connection (IIRC, ADSL 1.5Mbps down, 512Kbps up) wont be able to handle the site. |
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| JasonL |
| no it is 1mb up and 1.9mb down. |
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| AudioFreak |
| Ok thanks for the clarification, but 1Mbps up still wont handle our traffic. |
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| li_gangyi |
| is there a way to split the load and have mirrors?? |
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| SkinnyBoy |
| host pictures on another server? or don't allow people to attach pictures.. :p |
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| AudioFreak |
| quote: | Originally posted by jwb
Suggested benefits of membership:
1. Ability to see long threads as one page
2. Unlimited searching
3. Ability to use HTML |
1. Not done in order to ensure that server load doesn't go through the roof.
2. It's not limitted now ... there are a few improvements to be made to the system but it's alot better than it used to be.
3. Disabled for security reasons ... for the same reason, it will not be turned back on for any users.
Dont worry, I'll think of some fun things to set paided members apart from the rest.
| quote: | Originally posted by li_gangyi
is there a way to split the load and have mirrors?? |
Not without adding alot of complexity and cost ... the only easy way to share the load is if you have a cluster of servers and a load sharing server in front of them delegating the work and that requires that all the servers all be together on a local network to work efficiently.
| quote: | Originally posted by SkinnyBoy
host pictures on another server? or don't allow people to attach pictures.. :p |
Pictures dont actually cause that much of a problem.
Approx. 1/2 the database is attachments and I'm working on a way to improve this at present... |
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| li_gangyi |
| perhaps we can put the pics for VB on another server...and all the mySql on one...and manage the traffic that way...would it be better...?? assuming we split up the code first...I've got a friend whu did that..but he couldn't host the VB site as it was well...unpaid...if you noe what I mean...I think the same can be done with PhpBB... |
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| AudioFreak |
| quote: | Originally posted by avatar307
Further limiting the size of any attachment to like 50k would cut down on bandwith. If a file larger than that needed to be uploaded, the user could secure a moderators permission before posting. I see a lot of images here that I have to maximize my browser to see, and that is just way too large for a forum attachment. |
I will be making changes to the attachments system soon so that larger graphics will only display a small version and you can click on it to view the original fullsize image.
| quote: | Originally posted by avatar307
There is a lot of stuff that should be put into private messages that is not, and that fills up the database. |
That would be because we have the private messages system disabled until we write our own private message system to replace the standard one.
| quote: | Originally posted by avatar307
As far as a permanet source of revenue to pay for bandwith and upgrades to a server. I find it very suprising that companies like Rockford Fosgate aren't jumping to be part of this site. I would think that a little icon, or even a banner at the bottom of the page, would be worth $50/month to them. |
Most likely because we haven't asked or told any companies that we would like to do this.
| quote: | Originally posted by avatar307
I work for a University in the data communications department. It might be possible for me to find a place to hide a server, and monitor its' bandwith close enough to keep it hidden. However, this would have to only be a short-term solution. We're currently running a DS3 and not hitting peak usage during any period... so I may be able to help. |
If you could let me know in the next week that would be great.
| quote: | Originally posted by avatar307
One final comment. Would our current hosting company be willing to continue to host the site if we provided the server and paid them for the bandwith? I would hope as they have thus far had good dealings with AudioFreak and this site being on their server, that they would be willing to let us have some bandwith and rack space for a reduced cost. |
We can't continue on Sitepoint's servers but the company that hosts their servers is Ventures Online and we could certainly deal directly with them however I dont think we have much of a chance of getting discounted prices from them.
| quote: | Originally posted by li_gangyi
perhaps we can put the pics for VB on another server...and all the mySql on one...and manage the traffic that way...would it be better...?? |
Bandwidth usage on each server would be less as would storage space required and cpu load, but, RAM required on the main forum server really wouldn't change much (and this is 1 of the 2 main reasons why all the cheap hosts have refused us unless we go dedicated)... It's really a case of 6 of 1, half a dozen of the other. There are potential gains and potential losses. I'll be working on this once we get our new hosting sorted out ... for now, it'll have to stay as it is as there is just not time for me to change things now. |
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| freeupyermind |
| ha heres a laff ask maxtheater to sponsor, jk, well personally i like brainchilds idea, or www.pssclabs.com can build a custom server for you, at least go there choose what you need and ask for a quote! |
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| JamesMelhuish |
I have just moved to fluidhosting and am beginning to set up the new Single Driver Website and Full Range Forum. Apparently they have good service. Specs. are below, but I don't know if there is enough RAM for you. This plan is the virtual private server, not dedicated hosting.
VPS Plan Pricing
Power Plan:
Disk Space 4500 MB
Monthly Traffic 50 GB
CPU 300 MHz
Memory 256 MB
IP Addresses 2
Monthly Price $119.95
Setup $50
redhat Linux
Apache 1.3.26
PHP 4.1.1
mod_perl 1.24
MySQL 3.23.36
PostgreSQL 7.0.3
OpenSSH 3.1p1
ProFTP 1.2.2
Front Page Extension 5.0.2
gcc 2.96
Webmin 0.980
Usermin 0.920
Open WebMail 1.65
Majordomo 1.14
sendmail
(no affiliation with fluidhosting, other than recently subscribing to their service...)
James
See : fluidhosting.com |
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| elizard |
JamesMelhuish:
for that price, at rackshack they can just about get their own server (he was saying around $150+ for a dedicated server there)
The bandwidth they give you is big too, like 700gigs if i remember reading it right!!! |
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| rkbh1 |
Guys:
I am relatively new to diyaudio.com, but I may be able to help - I have access to a T-1 line and can probably fix up a Linux box with ssh access to the administrators. Can one of the administrator'e email me for the next steps? |
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