| mgreene |
Hey yall,
Is Peter van Willenswaard's DAC, mentioned on the Joelist as having been very impressive at the Triode Festival, on line anywhere - as in a schematic or a kit?
Mike |
|
|
| mgreene |
OK heres a pic and description -
Kurt said:
Guido and Peter, demonstrated their home grown DA converters on CD, and the were both reproducing the best CD material, these ears, have heard. Especially Peters non oversampling/interpolated converter was BRILLIANT ! |
|
|
| Elso Kwak |
| quote: | Originally posted by mgreene
OK heres a pic and description -
Kurt said:
Guido and Peter, demonstrated their home grown DA converters on CD, and the were both reproducing the best CD material, these ears, have heard. Especially Peters non oversampling/interpolated converter was BRILLIANT ! |
The PCB has the typical colour of an Audionote DAC. And I see some tubes....
Who is Peter van Willenswaard again?
;) |
|
|
| wazzup |
Personaly I think he`s a genius...
Isn`t the dac a heavy modified Hawk audio dac? www.audio.nl click on the mp dac, or is this Guido`s dac? Ok I`m lost.... :smash: |
|
|
| jean-paul |
Peter van Willenswaard has designed quite a few excellent sounding amps and preamps ( AT832 !!! ) in the past for Audio&Techniek magazine amongst others. He also wrote in some audiorelated magazines as a technical reviewer/journalist etc. Nowadays he has his own small audio-company in Rotterdam, the Netherlands. Forgot the name, something with Audio***** or *****audio.
That DAC might be the best but I think it looks like @#$%. |
|
|
| fdegrove |
Hi,
Magic Audio?
Cheers,;) |
|
|
| fdegrove |
Hi,
| quote: | | The PCB has the typical colour of an Audionote DAC. And I see some tubes.... |
Smelling a rat, Elso?
PVW is an audio journalist, isn't he?
I do recall his name from various Dutch audio mags...
Cheers,;) |
|
|
| Peter Daniel |
| quote: | Originally posted by jean-paul
That DAC might be the best but I think it looks like @#$%. |
Looks can be deceiving.
From what I see, he could have made it even better, but run out of space;) |
|
|
| jean-paul |
Frank was very close, it's: Audiomagic
If you need the adress or telephonenumber please say so, Mike.
Peter, I just don't like the different coloured PCB's, the loose wiring and the small extra PCB's. It is a prototype or a mix of an existing DAC with several heavy modifications. You think it looks OK !?!? If he ran out of space he could have made/bought another bigger case.
Good sound is important but for me it has to be well built as well. ( not just from an esthetical point of view ). |
|
|
| jean-paul |
Mmm, you're right. Your DAC looks worse and against your high standard of esthetics. I am curious how it will look when it is finished. ( Please don't answer that it IS finished ... )
I sincerely hope that I am not invoking an audiocosmetics thread....
Blue LED anyone ? |
|
|
| Peter Daniel |
| All I have to do is make a suitable enclosure for batteries;) |
|
|
| finneybear |
The posted photo is the PCM63 DAC based on AudioNote DAC3, no digital filter.
I checked Peter's Audiomagic website and it seemed to have been dead for a while? |
|
|
| Guido Tent |
| quote: | Originally posted by wazzup
Personaly I think he`s a genius...
Isn`t the dac a heavy modified Hawk audio dac? www.audio.nl click on the mp dac, or is this Guido`s dac? Ok I`m lost.... :smash: |
Hi,
It is not "my" DAC (compare the pics with our DAC site)
It is Peters' DAC. Based on a chassis of AN and the digital PCB (fully stripped with exception of PCM63 and input receiver ICs).
The rest is all Peters work. It is non oversampled and the best PCM DAC I ever heard (it might outperform ANDAC5 but it may be too early to judge on that).
Yes, it looks messy, but you forget about that the second you hear it.
regards |
|
|
| fdegrove |
Hi,
| quote: | | (it might outperform ANDAC5 but it may be too early to judge on that). |
Never underestimate a Peter....Be that a Qvortrup, a Daniel or a Van Willenswaard...;) |
|
|
| Pjotr |
| quote: | Originally posted by jean-paul
Good sound is important but for me it has to be well built as well. ( not just from an esthetical point of view ). |
Ehm, I don’t think electrons, currents and voltages have any understanding of a tidy living place. And after all isn’t just that that little touch of magic :angel:
Most of my professional proto work has more resemblance with spider webs than a “Spic and Span” production PCB and it just work fine.
Just another Peter, :very big grinn: :xmasman: |
|
|
| guido |
| quote: | Originally posted by mgreene
OK heres a pic and description -
Kurt said:
Guido and Peter, demonstrated their home grown DA converters on CD, and the were both reproducing the best CD material, these ears, have heard. Especially Peters non oversampling/interpolated converter was BRILLIANT ! |
Look at the picture in the bottom right, it's the first DAC i see which has spare parts 'on board'.
GuidoB |
|
|
| Guido Tent |
| quote: | Originally posted by guido
Look at the picture in the bottom right, it's the first DAC i see which has spare parts 'on board'.
GuidoB |
:-)
thats the normal digital filter, Peter (van W) has substituted that by a plugin perfoming non oversampling. It is there to be used to indicate differences between oversampling or not .......
Ciao |
|
|
| mgreene |
Thanks Jean-Paul,
I was made curious by the fact that this piece got a rave on the Joelist but found no mention anywhere else. I had never heard of Peter and wondered what type of web presence he might have.
I will eventually need a DAC and this one would be very interesting if the schema etc were online.
Mike |
|
|
| fons de boeck |
Gentleman, IT'S MINE DAC, The NirWanaDAC made by Peter Van Willenswaard
and i am very proud, indead it is a brilliant DAC.
I have given Peter van Willenswaard the assingment to build the BEST DAC OF THE WORLD.
And he's succeed in his assingment.
The buildperiod was just about one year, i would not have it sooner, i want a one year builperiod
it must be the best DAC evermade, just for me.
And again it is mine DAC and i am very proud of it.
Peter van Willenswaard is an author who write's for the American magazine Stereofile and many
Amp's and preamps are made by him and are wellknow in the netherlands and in America.
Several years he worked for Audio-Note and Philips did also appeal to his knowledge.
Now he has his own company in Rotterdam called Audio-Magic.
The tubes,
2 rectifyer TungSol JTL6X4WA
3 ecc802s Mullard
1 Ob Cifty
http://site.zeelandnet.nl/sparoub/homepage1/start.htm |
|
|
| rbroer |
Congrats Fons.:cool:
Are you still using the Philips CD723 based transport ?
Then this might be interesting !
http://peufeu.free.fr/audio/extremist_dac/bit_accuracy/
According to the author Pierre-Frédéric (PeuFeu) these Philips players (CD713/23 and maybe even the CD753, Maranz CD4000 and up) do not ouput a bit for bit copy of the info on your cd's.
Even when adjusting the volume control to 0dB (yup, the volume control scales the SPDIF output signals).:cannotbe:
This is very disturbing, it also means the people using these players to connect to a non-oversampling DAC, in fact, do NOT have a non-oversampling DAC in such a configuration, since the source is already scaled down !:hot: |
|
|
| fons de boeck |
rudolf,
your comment will be checked!, soon more,
b.t.w.
Peter build my DAC first and then modified his DAC to the level
of my DAC.
fons |
|
|
| fedde |
This is indeed interesting. Thanx for the link!
Fedde |
|
|
| Guido Tent |
| quote: | Originally posted by fedde
This is indeed interesting. Thanx for the link!
Fedde |
Yes, and check out the rest of his page too. Very intersting, he even agrees with me on the toppics of layout and grounding :-)
Ciao |
|
|
| fons de boeck |
guido,
answer is on his way,,,
prepair,
fons |
|
|
| fons de boeck |
Rudolf
yes, i do have a non-oversampling DAC.
My PvWDAC dictates and not the transport!!!
In the highest stand of the dig.volume.control (723 and dig.spdif out) there
is a calculate present and that's why it is
not -bit equal
fons |
|
|
| fons de boeck |
citeer
Hello Fons,
Lucky you :) I am surprised that I didn't recognize Peter's name as you say
he has written for Stereophile. Maybe Peter will consider offering a kit so
the rest of us can build and have the "best DAC in the world" too :)
Kind regards
Mike
then you contact peter,
fons |
|
|
| rfbrw |
| Can you switch the filter in and out of use while the music is playing? |
|
|
| fdegrove |
Hi,
| quote: | | Can you switch the filter in and out of use while the music is playing? |
You can.
Cheers,;) |
|
|
| rfbrw |
| quote: | Originally posted by fdegrove
Hi,
You can.
Cheers,;) |
Thanks. Any other points of interest you can release about this dac? |
|
|
| fdegrove |
Hi,
| quote: | | Any other points of interest you can release about this dac? |
Probably, but not necessarilly related to this particular DAC as such.
The answer to your post is not limited to this one anyway...
Generally spoken, deemphasis can be switched in and out.
Cheers, ;) |
|
|
| rfbrw |
| quote: | Originally posted by fdegrove
Hi,
Probably, but not necessarilly related to this particular DAC as such.
The answer to your post is not limited to this one anyway...
Generally spoken, deemphasis can be switched in and out.
Cheers, ;) |
Eh oh as the teletubbies say.. I should have been more precise. I was actually referring to the DF1700 and digital filtering as a whole as opposed to just deemphasis, given that the AN DAC3 is used as a base for this dac. I was curious to know if it could be switched in and out of audio path on-the-fly so to speak thus enabling one to oversample or do without. |
|
|
| Guido Tent |
| quote: | Originally posted by rfbrw
Can you switch the filter in and out of use while the music is playing? |
why would you want to do that ?
Ciao |
|
|
| rfbrw |
| A number of reasons not least because one can. I once built one of these NOS dacs and found it varied with the music being played and at the time it would have been nice to be able switch between modes without the aid of a soldering iron. It is hardly a unique facility, the PMD100 demoboard had glitchless switching between the PMD100 and the DF1700 for the purposes of comparison. |
|
|
| dddac |
In my earlier dddac I have done life switching between receivers and digital filters. You can still read about this on my Site.
Any way, it is a good feature when you are stil in development. I LOVE A-B switches (that is why there is standard one on the dddac1543 ;) )
I used switching between DF1704 and SM5842. Where the SM5842 was the clear winner. But the differences are not as big as you might think. If I change my 300B tubes on the amplifiers, the sonic differences are more significant.
I also had an A-B switch between 8412 and 8420-in-re-clocking-mode. The last on had exactly the same effect as now switching between pll and int clock in the dddac1543.
doede |
|
|
| fons de boeck |
doede,
no digital filter, it's the best.
in a digital filter there is a calculate and that is what you hear.
fons |
|
|
| Guido Tent |
| quote: | Originally posted by fons de boeck
doede,
no digital filter, it's the best.
in a digital filter there is a calculate and that is what you hear.
fons |
Fons,
When going to non oversampling mode, also the jitter entering the DAC is greatly reduced.
I am still convinced that this also plays a role.
We verified Peters DAC with mine. In non oversampling his DAC is preferred, in oversampling mode mine is.
Still lots of areas to explore, now back to the soldering iron...
regards |
|
|
| wazzup |
| What are those white cylinders on the left, in the dac? Coils? |
|
|
| fons de boeck |
Guido,
From a technical point, what do you prefer,
nonsam or oversam,,,
fons
Guido,
from a musical point, what do you prefer,,
nonsam or oversam,,,
Guido,
will you give wazzup a answer.
fons |
|
|
| Guido Tent |
| quote: | Originally posted by wazzup
What are those white cylinders on the left, in the dac? Coils? |
Foil capacitors
Ciao |
|
|
| Guido Tent |
| quote: | Originally posted by fons de boeck
Guido,
From a technical point, what do you prefer,
nonsam or oversam,,,
fons
Guido,
from a musical point, what do you prefer,,
nonsam or oversam,,,
Guido,
will you give wazzup a answer.
fons |
Hi,
Technical: Oversampling (but properly applied)
Musical: Non oversampling (no comment)
Bye |
|
|
| wazzup |
| quote: | Originally posted by Guido Tent
Foil capacitors
Ciao |
And what brand of foil caps? I`m quite interested in those... They look ...musical :) |
|
|
| fons de boeck |
wazzup,
That's a question for Alex
fons |
|
|
| wazzup |
I will ask him then, whenever I have another question for him. I will be building my Mp dac, soon as I finished my cd player. There will be a lot of questions, on THAT dac ;)
Ciao |
|
|
| Guido Tent |
| quote: | Originally posted by wazzup
And what brand of foil caps? I`m quite interested in those... They look ...musical :) |
just asked Peter:
Arcotronics motor run caps.
Ciao |
|
|
| martijn |
--According to the author Pierre-Frédéric (PeuFeu) these Philips players (CD713/23 and maybe even the CD753, Maranz CD4000 and up) do not ouput a bit for bit copy of the info on your cd's.
Even when adjusting the volume control to 0dB (yup, the volume control scales the SPDIF output signals).
--This is very disturbing, it also means the people using these players to connect to a non-oversampling DAC, in fact, do NOT have a non-oversampling DAC in such a configuration, since the source is already scaled down !
__________________
--Rudolf Broertjes
I've had a look at some datasheets.I think you can solve the problem by changing the settings of the decoder.If it's set to 1xFs the 0.5dB attenuation will not be active.(The volumecontrol is implemented before both spdif-output and filtersection)
martijn |
|
|
| fedde |
| quote: | Originally posted by martijn
--This is very disturbing, it also means the people using these players to connect to a non-oversampling DAC, in fact, do NOT have a non-oversampling DAC in such a configuration, since the source is already scaled down !
|
The scaling down has nothing to do with (non-)oversampling. It could obscure some detail and increase the distortion, but will not have the effects of a digital filter. (eg. overshoot)
Fedde |
|
|
| fons de boeck |
| quote: | Originally posted by fedde
The scaling down has nothing to do with (non-)oversampling. It could obscure some detail and increase the distortion, but will not have the effects of a digital filter. (eg. overshoot)
Fedde |
fedde
You are so right, PvW had the same answer...
fons |
|
|
| martijn |
Hi,
your missing the point,I assume.
Rudolf's posting made me aware of Peufeu's website where you can find some measurements.The way these decoders work in 4Fs mode is probably damn ugly.I've been spending the better part of last night reading up on the subject and without fully understanding all the complexities involved in properly implementing a digital volumecontrol, I dare to say that you would be smart to circumvent these stages alltogether.
Martijn |
|
|
| martijn |
And apparently it can be done.
Martijn |
|
|
| fedde |
Martijn, I think you mix up two issues. One is the scaling problem, the other the 4fs oversampling in the decoder. The oversampling is only an issue if you want to use I2S. The S/P-DIF signal is not oversampled. By rewriting the controller eeprom, the oversampling can be disabled for I2S.
Fedde |
|
|
| martijn |
Fedde,
not mixing up!
The moment you put this bloody chip into 4Fs it will scale down its spdif output!
At least that's what I understood reading the sheets.
Martijn.
BTW could not reach you about your 204 ,the email link on your website doesn't work somehow?? |
|
|
| fedde |
But do you think that in 4fs mode the S/P-DIF signal is also oversampled/digitally filtered? I do not think so...
The mail adresses on my webpages are correct. Otherwise send me a personal mail via Diyaudio!
Ciao,
Fedde |
|
|
| martijn |
Fedde,
no,the volumecontrol is located before both filtersection and spdifsection.The volumecontrol always runs in 1Fs.As does the spdifsection.
Martijn |
|
|
| fons de boeck |
Mea Culpa, Mea Maxima Culpa,
fons,
Boy's
it's all about the PvWDAC
fons |
|
|
| martijn |
I should have started a new thread,sorry.
Martijn |
|
|
| WTS |
Hi; This all sounds very interesting OS vs Non OS. I have question, how do you seperate the L/R channel signals. Because this is normally done by the dig filter isn't it. Is there a schematic of one I could look at to see how this is done.
Thanks |
|
|
| rfbrw |
| quote: | Originally posted by WTS
Hi; This all sounds very interesting OS vs Non OS. I have question, how do you seperate the L/R channel signals. Because this is normally done by the dig filter isn't it. Is there a schematic of one I could look at to see how this is done.
Thanks |
If the interchannel delay is of no concern to you then this circuit should do. I say should as I haven't built it because the delay does bother me.
The LRCLK is delayed in order to align the MSB of the 16bit data with that of the 20bit input register of the PCM63 and LRCLK to one channel is inverted. Serial data is sent to both channels.
The circuit is intended to work with the YM3623 or mode 5 of the CS8412. |
|
|
| WTS |
Hi rfbrw; Thanks for the reply. I was thinking about the question I asked and then it came to me, another mental lapse must be aging or something. Yea all that is needed is to invert the LRclk(1 ninv +1 inv signal). I'm not sure in your circuit why you delayed the LRclk. I've had to the exact same type of mod, going from one bit rate to the other and I just put the 164 in the data line and clocked the 164 with the Sclk(bit clk) and it works just great. I've had my system like this for years.
I've never thought about going without a dig filter. What changes to the analog filter are needed. My setup is unconventional as it is. I run dual dacs( AD's current output) in diff mode directly into two channels( bridged power amp basically) setup in diff mode as well. The amp I designed specifically for this arrangement, balanced i/ps on the pwramps to match the load required for the dacs etc. Single(common) feedback grnd return for both halves.
Actually I was thinking about trying out BB's DF1704(not sure how good it is) because it has the dig volume control in it. Right how I use a variable bit shifting setup for level control. Works great except the steps in level are alittle big. Anyway we won't get into this discussion about bit shifting and the pros and cons and how it affects the sound ****, I know alot are on the con side so they can keep their analog controls.
Thanks |
|
|
| rfbrw |
Looking at the output of the YM3623 or mode5 of the CS8412 LRCLK transistions after the LSB. In order to mimick 20bit data LRCLK is delayed by 4 SCLK cycles.
A lot of the non os setups seem to do away with any form of analogue filtering. |
|
|
| Blitz |
| quote: | Originally posted by Guido Tent
Hi,
Technical: Oversampling (but properly applied)
Musical: Non oversampling (no comment)
Bye |
Guido,
Very interesting...I have build your DAC (with OS) and obviously I would like to make the same musical experience. So, how did you your DAC NON-OS ? as explained below ?
Best Regards |
|
|
| fons de boeck |
boy's
There is a update on his way
fons |
|
|
|
