| G-Daddy |
I'm building up a SPICE model of an amp I'm working on, and I'm finding that models of the transistors are incredibly hard to find. The amp is a High Voltage amp, used to direct-drive a set of home made electrostatic headphones. The design is the one Kevin Gilmore produced to drive Omega commercial electrostatics, http://headwize.com/projects/showpr...ilmore2_prj.htm
My hope is, after i build this, I can scale it up for use as a solid-state direct-drive amp for a full size set of ESLs. In any case, I'm having real difficulty finding the following transistor models:
2SC1815
2SA970
2SA1156
2SC2240
2SC3675
2SC2705
This is, in fact EVERY transistor type in the circuit but one; obviously I'm having trouble finding what i need. The only one I've found is the 2SK389, and even then I'm not so sure that model is entirely accurate. If anyone could help me out with any of these models, or better yet show me a few good resources for finding SPICE models, I would be forever grateful. Thanks. |
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| Hoffmeyer |
Send me your e-mail adress, and I'll send you 2 libraries with all the models but 2SC3675.
BTW what simulator are you using? |
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| mlloyd1 |
Well, while we're asking, can anybody point to (or send) models of Toshiba's 2SK170 and 2SJ74? The other parts referred to would be nice, but not needed at this time :)
I use the FREE spice simulator from Linear Technology
mlloyd1 |
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| G-Daddy |
Lots of thanks to Ole Hoffmeyer Lund for his gracious provision of the SPICE models I was looking for. Sadly, though, it seems OrCad library files (.PLB and .SLB) are not in standard SPICE subcircuit format. Circuitmaker 2k didn't seem to like that at all. So if anyone out there knows the best way to read OrCad libraries as regular ASCII text SPICE models, please pass along the knowledge. Otherwise, if anyone can dig up the above listed transistors in a different format, that'd be a decent second choice.
Also, in either case, I'm still looking for the 2SC3675 model. This is evidently a special-purpose high voltage transistor, often times used in computer monitor's to control high voltage tube bias. I'm taking Kevin Gilmore at his good word that this transistor performs acceptably as an audio high voltage device. Once I can sim my amp and the few tweaks I've made, I'll build it and see. Thanks everyone for the time and attention, good luck on your respective projects.
- Jonathan |
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| G-Daddy |
Just for general info, I did find a .lib form of the spice models, so I now have all of the transistor models I was looking for, except Sanyo's 2SC3675.
If anyone wants the regular subcircuit-style model libraries, i can direct you to them. And of course, if anyone can turn up a reasonable model of the 2SC3675, that'd be great.
Also, if anyone knows a good way to write a spice model from a data sheet, I DO have the 2SC3675's data sheet. But I dont know how to generate a matching model. Any help there would be great also. Thanks everyone.
- Jonathan |
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| Grumpy_Git |
Does any one know where to get hold of a full version of a program such as "Spice Mod" from the makers of ICAP4.
I this program or an equivalent badly, but the demo version is far too limited and I can't afford it.
Any help would be great.
Nick. |
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| thanh |
| spice model of 2SC1815GR 2SA1015,does any one know them? |
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| hlyytine |
| quote: | Originally posted by thanh
spice model of 2SC1815GR 2SA1015,does any one know them? |
thanh, have a look at http://power.teipat.gr/download/OrC...Capture/PSPICE/. The transistor models (I'm not sure whether 2SC1815GR differs from 2SC1815) are located in jbipolar.lib.
The Japanese power devices can be found in jpwrbjt.lib. |
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| Netlist |
The normal 2SC1815 has a Hfe between 70 and 140. The Y between 120-240, the GR between 200-400 and the BL between 350-700.
.MODEL 2SC1815G NPN (IS=81.2039P BF=130.444 NF=1.22428 VAF=251.702 IKF=1.05399
+ ISE=1.76673P NE=1.65186 BR=7.21621 IKR=16.9232M ISC=3.03555N NC=1.78127
+ RE=1.06272 RC=279.03M CJE=2P MJE=500M CJC=7.81791P VJC=700M MJC=499.93M
+ TF=1.94501N XTF=500.013M VTF=10 ITF=10.0727M TR=10N )
.MODEL 2SC1815 NPN (IS=9.99315F BF=192.019 NF=1.01109 VAF=311.281 IKF=214.789M
+ ISE=124.464F NE=1.51791 BR=4.99998 IKR=980.183 ISC=33.4247F RE=2.96389 CJE=2P
+ MJE=500M CJC=7.82341P VJC=700M MJC=500.188M TF=512.206P XTF=183.171M
+ VTF=9.97698 ITF=9.76409M TR=10N )
.MODEL 2SA1015 PNP (IS=10.0004F BF=239.283 NF=996.198M VAF=100 IKF=172.882M
+ ISE=43.1361F NE=1.44709 BR=5 IKR=961.305 ISC=121.849F RE=1.05432 CJE=2P
+ MJE=500M CJC=15.6333P VJC=700.001M MJC=499.871M TF=601.795P XTF=163.532M
+ VTF=9.93432 ITF=9.63234M TR=10N )
/Hugo :) |
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| thanh |
Oh!I want to say 2SC1815GR ?
Thank a lot! |
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| jarek |
Hi,
Could someone help me find PSpice models for 2sc4793, 2sa1837 and 2sc5200,2sa1943? |
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| Netlist |
| quote: | Originally posted by jarek
Hi,
Could someone help me find PSpice models for 2sc4793, 2sa1837 and 2sc5200,2sa1943? |
.MODEL 2SC4793 NPN (IS=0.1p BF=130 NF=1 ISE=0.1p RB=1 RE=0.1 RC=0.2 VAF=500 IKF=3 TF=1.6ns CJC=100p )
.MODEL 2SA1837 PNP (IS=0.1p BF=130 NF=1 ISE=0.1p RB=1 RE=0.1 RC=0.2 VAF=500 IKF=3 TF=2.28n CJC=150p )
.MODEL Q2SC5200 NPN(
+ IS=10.000E-15 BF=105 VAF=100 IKF=10.000E-3 XTB=1.5
+ BR=.1001 VAR=100 IKR=10.000E-3 ISC=10.000E-15 CJE=2.0000E-12
+ CJC=485.82E-12 MJC=.33333 TF=607.76E-12 XTF=10 VTF=10 ITF=1)
Thats all I have ;)
/Hugo |
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| jarek |
Thanks Hugo:)
2sa1943 is still missing :bawling: |
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| jarek |
OHH, thanks Geoff:)
Any differences from Toshiba's?
Regards |
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| Christer |
| quote: | Originally posted by Netlist
.MODEL 2SC4793 NPN (IS=0.1p BF=130 NF=1 ISE=0.1p RB=1 RE=0.1 RC=0.2 VAF=500 IKF=3 TF=1.6ns CJC=100p )
.MODEL 2SA1837 PNP (IS=0.1p BF=130 NF=1 ISE=0.1p RB=1 RE=0.1 RC=0.2 VAF=500 IKF=3 TF=2.28n CJC=150p )
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Are those some kind of official models? Where did you get them?
I have previously posted my own DIY models for these which I
made since I couldn't find any models anywhere, but those
ones come with no guarantees at all and are used at your
own risk (needless to say, I hope :) ). |
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| Netlist |
| quote: | Originally posted by Christer
used at your
own risk (needless to say, I hope :) ). |
Like everything I post here. :D
No, seriously, even manufacturers tell you to use there models at your own risk.
http://www.hi-fi.ru/forum/16/18234/m275478
Like always, I know it's not obvious to post models. We all know/should know that they have to be compared with datasheets.
I bet yours will be completely different and probably more accurate. I'll do a search... :)
/Hugo |
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| Christer |
| quote: | Originally posted by Netlist
Like everything I post here. :D
No, seriously, even manufacturers tell you to use there models at your own risk.
http://www.hi-fi.ru/forum/16/18234/m275478
Like always, I know it's not obvious to post models. We all know/should know that they have to be compared with datasheets.
I bet yours will be completely different and probably more accurate. I'll do a search... :)
/Hugo |
The "use at own risk" was intended to refer to my models,
not the ones you posted. I'll have a look and compare
the models some day.
I don't expect my models to be better or even as good, but
since I couldn't find any models, I had to make my own. |
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| Netlist |
Christer,
I looked up your models and compared them with the ones I posted. They appear to be exactly the same.
They must have traveled to Russia before landing here again.
/Hugo |
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| Christer |
| quote: | Originally posted by Netlist
Christer,
I looked up your models and compared them with the ones I posted. They appear to be exactly the same.
They must have traveled to Russia before landing here again.
/Hugo |
Oh no, so somebody has picked up my models and posted
them somewhere without proper warnings and explanations. :(
Well, there are probably many models out there with
obscure origin. |
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| janneman |
| quote: | Originally posted by Grumpy_Git
Does any one know where to get hold of a full version of a program such as "Spice Mod" from the makers of ICAP4.
I this program or an equivalent badly, but the demo version is far too limited and I can't afford it.
Any help would be great.
Nick. |
Nick, I have a copy of an older (DOS) version. I still use it, it seems to work quite well. If you send me your email address I'l send it to you as a .zip.
Jan Didden |
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| Werner |
| quote: | Originally posted by mlloyd1
can anybody point to (or send) models of Toshiba's 2SK170 and 2SJ74? |
As usual, use with care and stay suspicious, as these are only
models, not super models ...
.model J2sj74 PJF(Beta=92.12m Rs=7.748 Rd=7.748 Betatce=-.5 Lambda=4.464m
+ Vto=-.5428 Vtotc=-2.5m Cgd=85.67p M=.3246 Pb=.3905 Fc=.5
+ Cgs=78.27p Isr=129.8p Nr=2 Is=12.98p N=1 Xti=3 Alpha=10u Vk=100
+ Kf=26.64E-18 Af=1)
*SRC=2SJ74;J2SJ74;JFETs P;Gen. Purpose;25 V 20MA
.MODEL J2SJ74 PJF (VTO=-1.1 BETA=20M LAMBDA=1.2M RD=4.95
+ RS=4.45 IS=6.32F PB=1 FC=.5 CGS=52.5P CGD=115P)
* Toshiba 25 Volt 20M Amp 35.3 ohm Dep-Mode P-Channel J-FET 11-18-1993
.model J2sk170 NJF(Beta=59.86m Rs=4.151 Rd=4.151 Betatce=-.5 Lambda=1.923m
+ Vto=-.5024 Vtotc=-2.5m Cgd=20p M=.3805 Pb=.4746 Fc=.5
+ Cgs=25.48p Isr=84.77p Nr=2 Is=8.477p N=1 Xti=3 Alpha=10u Vk=100
+ Kf=111.3E-18 Af=1)
*SRC=2SK170;J2SK170;JFETs N;Gen. Purpose;40V 20MA 35.3Ohm
.MODEL J2SK170 NJF (VTO=-.7 BETA=21M LAMBDA=19.95M RD=3.85
+ RS=2.35 IS=3.95F PB=1 FC=.5 CGS=85.4P CGD=22.7P)
* 40 Volt 20M Amp 35.3 ohm Dep-Mode N-Channel J-FET 12-10-1993
.model 2sk170 NJF
+ VTO=-5.211e-001 BETA=3.683e-002 LAMBDA=4.829e-003
+ IS=1.000e-009, RD=0.000e+000 RS=0.000e+000
+ CGS=5.647e-011 CGD=2.562e-011
+ PB=4.860e+000 FC=0.5
.model J2sk389 NJF(Beta=51.76m Rs=8.008 Rd=8.008 Betatce=-.5 Lambda=11.22m
+ Vto=-.5275 Vtotc=-2.5m Cgd=18.28p M=.3367 Pb=.3905 Fc=.5
+ Cgs=20.07p Isr=112.8p Nr=2 Is=11.28p N=1 Xti=3 Alpha=10u Vk=100
+ Kf=92.85E-18 Af=1)
.model J2sk369 NJF(Beta=82.61m Rs=1.556 Rd=1.556 Betatce=-.5 Lambda=414.5u
+ Vto=-.3552 Vtotc=-2.5m Cgd=46.72p M=.3623 Pb=.3905 Fc=.5
+ Cgs=70.51p Isr=86.47p Nr=2 Is=8.647p N=1 Xti=3 Alpha=10u Vk=100
+ Kf=74.85E-18 Af=1)
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| jarek |
| quote: | | .MODEL 2SC4793 NPN (IS=0.1p BF=130 NF=1 ISE=0.1p RB=1 RE=0.1 RC=0.2 VAF=500 IKF=3 TF=1.6ns CJC=100p ) |
Hugo,
Sory, these models do not work properly :(
I think, there are missing some properties..
Geoff, KSA's are OK. |
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| Christer |
| quote: | Originally posted by jarek
Hugo,
Sory, these models do not work properly :(
I think, there are missing some properties..
|
Maybe you should complain to me, since it turned out to be
the models I once made myself and posted once or twice
on the forum and which seem to have migrated to Russia,
where Hugo found them. :)
You are quite right they are incomplete. There are many more
parameters one can specify for a BJT, but I didn't have the
patience to or any clue how to (can't remember which now :) )
figure out the other parameters. Anyway, I once needed
models for the A1837, C4793 and some otheres, but couldn't
find any models either here or on the rest of the internet. Many
have asked for models on the forum, including myself, but
nobody ever seemed to have any models to post. I eventually
tried to DIY my own models using my semiconductor physics
book and the datasheets. The models come as is, with no
guarantees that the parameters are reasonable, although
I tried to get a decent black-box behaviour from them. I could
find no way, either in theory or in practice, to select the
parameters to give a decent match for all the most important
graphs simultaneously, so I settled on a compromise. It doesn't
match any graph really well, but I avoided mismatching either
of them terribly. The models are in particular not suited
to be used for the saturation or quasi-saturation regions, but
that's not what usually do in audio anyway. Note however,
that (almost) all offcial models for other BJTs I have tried
are as bad or even much worse than these models, except
for usually having some more parameters specified.
It would be appreciated by myself, and probably many others,
if somebody tries to improve on these models. |
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| jarek |
Lately I spent a little time on modelling in Model Editor. Here your are my models for 2SA1837 and 2SC4793. I do not give any guaranty that they are strictly correct, but for my amateur needs are good enough. Or maybe I am wrong.. :(
.MODEL Q2SA1837 PNP
+ IS=1.7671E-12
+ BF=160.54
+ VAF=500
+ IKF=1.7316
+ ISE=38.620E-12
+ NE=1.7292
+ BR=3.9832
+ VAR=100
+ IKR=1.6615
+ ISC=108.00E-12
+ NC=1.4213
+ NK=.83004
+ RB=1.0611
+ RC=.23351
+ CJE=2.0000E-12
+ CJC=72.874E-12
+ MJC=.33333
+ TF=1.6596E-9
+ XTF=.61407
+ VTF=36.102
+ ITF=.70845
+ TR=10.000E-9
.MODEL Q2SC4793 NPN
+ IS=1.8747E-12
+ BF=109.30
+ VAF=500
+ IKF=4.9998
+ ISE=4.0382E-12
+ NE=1.5341
+ BR=.35724
+ VAR=100
+ IKR=1.1273
+ ISC=14.741E-12
+ NC=2.2201
+ NK=.7652
+ RB=1.5379
+ RC=.19892
+ CJE=2.0000E-12
+ CJC=48.582E-12
+ MJC=.33333
+ TF=1.7700E-9
+ XTF=.61
+ VTF=30
+ ITF=.7
+ TR=10.000E-9 |
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| thanh |
Who can give me models 2SB688/2SD718 ?
Thanks you! |
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| ChocoHolic |
:angel: :angel: :angel: :angel:
Thanks to Ole!
The libraries are working fine.
Also great that they incorporate the SC2922 and 2SA1216!
Unfortunately I seem to love exotic types.
Especially some PNP and P-Chanel types I am still missing.
My librabries offer the NPN 2SC5171 and N-Chanel 2SK1530,
but the corresponding complementary types are missing.
Is there anybody who has ORCAD libraries which include
2SA1930 and 2SJ201 ?
Cheers
Markus |
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| wilson_ssc |
| I looking 2SC9018 and 2SC1815 SPice Model to run simulation for my FM transmitter circuit. Where can I find these SPice Model. Thanks. |
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| ashok |
Anyone with 2SK246 and 2SJ103 ? I couldn't find it anywhere .
Anyone ?
Thanks. |
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| fscarpa58 |
| quote: | | I looking 2SC9018 and 2SC1815 SPice Model |
.MODEL 2SC1815 NPN (IS=9.99315F BF=192.019 NF=1.01109 VAF=311.281 IKF=214.789M
+ ISE=124.464F NE=1.51791 BR=4.99998 IKR=980.183 ISC=33.4247F RE=2.96389 CJE=2P
+ MJE=500M CJC=7.82341P VJC=700M MJC=500.188M TF=512.206P XTF=183.171M
+ VTF=9.97698 ITF=9.76409M TR=10N)
F |
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| green |
| i am looking for the pspice model of a1930 and c5171, but i can find everywhere. would you want to help find it out! thank you a lots!! |
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| Nixie |
| I really need yet cannot find models for 2SA1156 and 2SA1968. |
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| Piersma |
| Did anyone yet find the Spice model for the Toshiba 2SA1930? |
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| lineup |
| quote: | Originally posted by ChocoHolic
Thanks to Ole!
The libraries are working fine.
Also great that they incorporate the SC2922 and 2SA1216!
Unfortunately I seem to love exotic types.
Especially some PNP and P-Chanel types I am still missing.
My librabries offer the NPN 2SC5171 and N-Chanel 2SK1530,
but the corresponding complementary types are missing.
Is there anybody who has ORCAD libraries which include
2SA1930 and 2SJ201 ?
Cheers
Markus |
Orcad SPICE models| quote: | * $Date: 17 Nov 1998 10:48:24 $
*
* ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
* The parameters in this model library were derived from the data sheets for
* each part. Each part was characterized using the Parts option.
* ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
.model Q2sc2922 NPN(Is=122.9n Xti=3 Eg=1.11 Vaf=100 Bf=87.13 Ise=122.9n
+ Ne=1.677 Ikf=99.99 Nk=1.384 Xtb=1.5 Var=100 Br=1 Isc=0 Nc=2
+ Ikr=0 Rc=0 Cjc=2p Mjc=.3333 Vjc=.75 Fc=.5 Cje=5p Mje=.3333
+ Vje=.75 Tr=2.581u Tf=4.584n Itf=6.76K Xtf=42.56K Vtf=10)
.model Q2sa1216 PNP(Is=7.795p Xti=3 Eg=1.11 Vaf=100 Bf=90.76 Ise=79.57p
+ Ne=1.483 Ikf=11.97 Nk=.3815 Xtb=1.5 Var=100 Br=1 Isc=0 Nc=2
+ Ikr=0 Rc=0 Cjc=2p Mjc=.3333 Vjc=.75 Fc=.5 Cje=5p Mje=.3333
+ Vje=.75 Tr=1.39u Tf=6.323n Itf=2.833 Xtf=0 Vtf=10)
* |
Regards, lineup |
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| Juko |
I'm looking for the following models (for PM7000 main amp part):
BZX79-C3V6 (zener diode)
transistors:
2SA1837
2SC5252
2SA1941
any help would be great!
PS I use orcad pspice |
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| Christer |
Does anybody have a Spice model for LM6171, or at least a model of the transfer function?
The dominating pole seems not possible to extract at all from the datasheet, since the relevant diagrams don't go low enough in frequency. OTOH, that pole is of less intererst. Judging from the open loop diagram, there also seems to be a zero somewhere in the vicinity of 10 MHz and two poles somewhere in the vicinity of 100-200 MHz. I can't quite get it right, though, and mimic the datasheet quite as close as I would like to, so maybe there are more poles and zeroes involved? |
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| Christer |
| I am also interested in LM6172. I have always thought that is just a double LM6171, but now realize they actually do show different behaviours in the datasheets. |
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| jcx |
You need to remember the Sackinger paper relation
“A General Relationship Between Amplifier Parameters, And Its Application to PSRR Improvement” E Sackinger, J Groette, W Guggenbuhl, IEEE Trans CAS vol 38, #10 10/83 pp 1171-1181
http://citeseer.ist.psu.edu/432448.html
which gives:
1/(CMRR) + 1/(PSRR+) + 1/(PSRR-) = (1/Adiff) * Zload/(Zload+Zout)
as a fundamental relationship for the standard op amp
then you can look at the LM6171 data sheet psrr and cmrr curves and be very confident that the LF pole is just under 10 KHz, also consistent with open loop large signal gain spec of 90 dB
I doubt the measurements are really accurate at 100 MHz, certainly hugely affected by test fixture parasitics
For audio applications you may be able to make the circuit insensitive to the details of the >10MHz reponse
using higher gains which keep loop gain intercept in the 90 degree phase shift region are easiest
decoupling the output from Cload with lossy ferrite or resistor
using noise gain comp if you need audio freq unity gain
National's LM6171A spice model seems to be broadly reasonable on frequency response vs data sheet |
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| Christer |
Tom,
Thanks. I did search Nationals site, without success. The link you provided told where to look, though, so I found the models.
Jcx,
Thanks, I wasn't aware of that relation. I had a strong suspicion, though, that the pole in the PSRR and CMRR curves would coincide with the dominant pole.
In this case it is not an audio application, but higher frequencies, which is why I bother about the higher frequency poles and zeroes. I'll check out the National models, now that I've found them. |
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