| xsnailx |
Ono Boards
I want to organize pcb bulk buy
so if anyone is intrested please write it here , any commennts will be wellcome
unfortunately i will need some help :
at this moment i have no way to develop an ono layout nor to
modify or/debug an existing one. i can prepare the files for the fab but not
create them so i took these layouts for consideration:
the first comes from from Edward Robinson and the second can be found here http://www.vanderweerdt.nl/ono.html
for the estimate quality of the boards take look here:
http://diyaudio.com/forums/showthre...&threadid=15083 |
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| Tomasz Rodak |
| I'm interested in aleph ono pcb layout! |
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| xsnailx |
| i can send you those two that i mentioned |
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| Tomasz Rodak |
| Ok, thanks a lot ! |
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| pekka |
I'd be interested in a group buy! Unfortunately I can not offer help in checking and/or modifying the layouts.
Regards,
Pekka |
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| transducer |
I'd be interested in a group buy of boards for the Ono. I'd be happy to check any layouts that are available.
Ron |
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| Netlist |
| quote: | Originally posted by xsnailx
i can send you those two that i mentioned |
Yes please ;)
/Hugo :) |
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| AndreasDK |
I'm very interested in a group buy as well!
I've always wanted an Ono, and I guess it's much fun to build it myself - but not without the pcbs :) |
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| xsnailx |
any one who mailed me about layouts privately please send this mail once more
i have accidentaly deleted the mail database :( |
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| axelcs |
Hi Boleslav,
i´m heavily interested in the group buy too, hope you finish your working soon!
Last group buy worked perfectly: my bosoz and aleph 4 is finished, quality of the boards was great!
Cheers, Axel |
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| Bakmeel |
Boleslav,
I noticed the link to my website in your first post (www.vanderweerdt.nl). The link is dead, and that has a reason:
The design I posted on my site was faulty, and I should have removed it earlier, but I didn't. I made a second design, which I am prototyping now, but I "wisely" decided not to post it before I confirmed its operation.
Please do organise your Bulk PCB buy, but be mindful not to use my design. It'll save you a lot of trouble ;)
Bouke |
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| xsnailx |
Hello!
thank you for warrning us about that
so there is only one layout left to use - ed robinson's if anyone knows about another layouts please let us know ! |
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| Tomasz Rodak |
| I received an excellent pdf's concerning ono from Kosva. |
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| xsnailx |
Hello!
i have recived kosva's pdf from tomek and i must admit that it is the best choice at this moment the board is not oversized and is one sided so it will be cheaper to produce i will try to post jpeg pictures tomorrow |
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| Bakmeel |
The second prototype of my ono board is working! :emoticon:
It needs a few adjustments, then I'll throw in the design to (co?)-organise a bulk order...
Bouke |
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| Netlist |
| quote: | Originally posted by Bakmeel
The second prototype of my ono board is working! :emoticon:
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Glad you made it. You must have been pushed a bit by the competition ;)
Keep us informed.
/Hugo :) |
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| zygibajt |
Hugo
I like your Aleph X in Pass gallery.
Very good.One of the best works in the gallery.
I'm slowely gathering the parts for 4 boxes Aleph 2 (monoblocks with separate supply).
After I build it I might try Aleph X ,too.
Did you compare it to any of the Aleph series amps?
Bartek |
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| xsnailx |
hello!
i apologize that i hadn't time to post the promised files but i have been very busy last day. if time permits i will post them today |
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| xsnailx |
Hello!
here is the ono layout by Kostas A. Vazakas - we have permision from him to use this layout in our group buy but if you plan to use it in another way, it would be nice to ask Kostas first .
here is the file:
http://www.studiomultimedialne.com/pass/
latest wersion of ed robinsons layout is there too
and there is another layout by Bouke
so we need to make a final decision wich one we use and then i will ask the fab for a quote :) |
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| Netlist |
Thanks alot, I let the experts comment.
/Hugo :) |
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| Bakmeel |
| I'll put up the latest version online tomorrow. It's late now and i've gotta get up early tomorrow to make the top lids of my ono case :D |
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| Bakmeel |
Ok... here goes... :)
These are not the final pcb's but the designs that I made working a few days ago. My pcb designs were shaped in such a way, that everything, including connectors and transformers can fit in a single standard audio-size enclosure.
The Power supply displayed below can hold up to 44.000 uF capacitance which should be far more than suficcient. Modifications pending are: 1) removal of one or two caps to make place for a two small heatsinks, since the fets turned out a bit hot. 2) my name put somewhere and 3) finish off the silkscreen layer. |
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| Bakmeel |
Second, there is the main board.
The baby took me more than a month total to design, spread out over an entire year. I still deeply feel sorry to all those people I had to dissapoint in the bulk order I was supposed to organise that time. It was a perfect example of selling the skin before shooting the bear. In fact, I sold that skin without even knowing what a bear is ;)
The second layout is a lot better, and indeed, it works ;) It features plenty of space for those big 10 uF caps needed for decoupling. A wima MKS cap fits perfectly. Q1 and Q2 can be thermally coupled. Maybe it reduces noise even further. I don't know. If desired, Q21 and Q21 can be coupled as well. The main board can hold up to 10.000 uF of additional high-speed caps in the power supply line. And for my own special feature: I have placed jumpers in the supply rails to the MC stage and the unity gain inverter. If not used, you can cut the power to these stages, and reduce noise levels on the rails even more.
Modifications pending: 1) add holes for the fets to secure them on the board (I forgot the holes!) 2) Fix errors in the silkscreen layer 3) put m name on it 4) enlage the solder pads for the fets, to make soldering easier. |
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| Bakmeel |
A small not I forgot on the board pics:
The PSU board is in inverted view. The traces are practically massive.
In the main board view, I have omitted the ground plane. It makes the picture a bit clearer....
Bouke |
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| xsnailx |
Bakmeel,
great but i have a few questions: are you able to provide gerber files for this group buy. what is the board size and when the final wersion will be ready (estimate :) ) |
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| Bakmeel |
| quote: | Originally posted by xsnailx
Bakmeel,
great but i have a few questions: are you able to provide gerber files for this group buy. |
Yes. Or perhaps if someone else can convert ultiboard into gerber, I have no objection to that either.
| quote: | | what is the board size |
The PSU: 85mm x 140mm (3.35" x 5.51")
Main Board: 80 mm x 270 mm (3.15" x 10.63")
note: you need at least 2 main boards. The layout is mono. 2 PSU boards is optional, but 1 will work too.
| quote: | | and when the final wersion will be ready (estimate :) ) |
Hopefully next week, but give me 2 weeks to be sure :) |
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| dvorak |
I would also be interested in joining your group buy.
I am in Malaysia and pcb fabrication would be much cheaper in Malaysia than in Europe. Perhaps I may assist in enquiring as to the costs for fabricating the pcb's if the pcb layout can be provided.
I would suggest that we go with the single sided pcb layout as it would be easier to fabricate. |
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| axelcs |
Hi,
i have seen the design from Kostas (?). The boards looks very good. It´s great to have so much power supply capacity.
Furthermore it seems to be a good solution, to use BC550 and BC560 instead of the 2SC1844 and 2SA991, especially the 2SC1844 are really difficult to get (here in europe). Unfortunately there is no balanced operation available – but i think, this is not a very big problem.
Bakmeel, is it possible, to use the BC´s in your boards too? Is it possible, to have single sided boards? You have the balanced operation included...
I don´t think that production in Malaysia could be much cheaper than Boleslav´s source (at least if we take into account the delivery to europe). The boards from his last group buy were very good and very cheap too.
Cheers Axel |
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| xsnailx |
| double sided boards will proably double the cost. Boards will be made in the same fab that i cooperated with in my last group buy so quality will be nice. i will contact the fab today and ask for a quote on both layouts and we will se how it looks like:) |
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| Alain Dupont |
Hi,
I am also interested in a set of boards,
my A75 will be finished soon...
Alain. |
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| transducer |
As I said earlier, I'm interested in a group buy. I don't know why I'm not getting any notification from diyaudio.com when new messages are posted to the board? :xeye: I'm worried that I'll miss the actual group buy!
Cheers,
RonS |
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| Bakmeel |
The PSU design is almost finished :)
My main board design is double sided, and I see no way of making it single sided unless I start from scratch. :(
Bouke |
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| Bakmeel |
The designs are finished. Let the group buy begin ;)
Bouke |
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| transducer |
Bouke,
Did you make provisioins for eliminating the output coupling capacitor? I believe that Peter Daniels had added a variable pot in parallel to one of the resistors to balance out the DC. It would be great to be able to eliminate that large capacitor, if it's not to late to add it.
Regards,
Ron
p.s. have you tested the boards? |
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| Bakmeel |
Ron,
Good point. I know what you're talking about but no, I haven't made those provisions. I'll investigate. It's not too late to alter the design a bit.
The current boards are playing. (mono that is). Even with inferior ceramic caps, non-matched transistors, less than half the supply caps, the design works fine and it even sounds good :D
Bouke
*** edit ***
I've looked up the posts on that trimmer. I can't add it without making a lot of changes. It's too crowded on that section of the pcb :( |
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| Duck-Twacy |
| quote: | Originally posted by Bakmeel
The designs are finished. Let the group buy begin ;)
Bouke |
Has it began yet?? |
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| xsnailx |
so the sizes didn't change ?
i will ask for a quotation for 20 pcs each board ? it shall be enough if not mail me |
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| AML |
I would also like to be the proud owner of a Aleph Ono RIAA-amplifier and buy two main-boards (I trust the quotation for boards is based on the layout from Bakmeel?!) and two powersupplyboards. Look forward to the result of the quotation
And by the way: "Happy New Year"
Best regards
AML |
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| Bakmeel |
xnailx,
Did you get any prices for your quotation?
Oh, and here's a picture of the working prototype: |
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| Bakmeel |
| ... and a picture of tha mainboard.. ;) |
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| transducer |
Is the group buy for boards going to happen? I haven't heard anything for a long time.
I'm interested in a pair of Ono boards and a pair of power supply boards.
Cheers,
RonS |
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| Bakmeel |
| quote: | Originally posted by transducer
Is the group buy for boards going to happen? I haven't heard anything for a long time.
I'm interested in a pair of Ono boards and a pair of power supply boards.
Cheers,
RonS |
Well, I thought Xsnailx was going to organise one, since I haven't got any time.... My boards are ready to go.... Maybe if I have time left during my internship (will start the 10th of may) I would go for it.... but not now anyway....
While i'm at it.... would there be any interest in a complete "aleph ono DIY kit"? PCB's and all components in one buy. All you have to do is add connectors of your taste, and build it in an enclosure...
One kit would cost around € 600,-
Bouke |
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| Alain Dupont |
Bakmeel,
I am only interested in a set of boards Ono + alim .
Regards.
Alain. |
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| WALTER BURKHARD |
I am also interested in a set of ono boards and power supplyboards.
regards walter |
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| SGregory |
| Count me in as well for a set of boards. |
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| Evaas |
count me in also if it isn't too late.
Do you have a price quote yet? |
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| Brownlow |
This time I cant let the Ono slip again:-)
Brownlow |
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| Dennis Hui |
I'm also interested. Please count me in for one set
of boards.
Cheers,
Dennis |
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| adusson |
| Count me in as well for a set of boards.:smash: |
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| axelcs |
Hi,
i ´d like to have a set of boards too!
Cheers
Axel |
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| Bakmeel |
All right all right!! You hungry wolves!! I was talking in very big "Maybe"-terms.... but there seems to be a great demand..
I'll organise the bulk order. You can expect a new thread on this order next week or so...
I've got my own ono up and running, ony a few little bugs are left on the pcb, but they were easily patched so I do'nt think a new version is needed. I need to work out how to organise the order, but that won't be long now...
In terms of prices, expect something around €75,- to €100,- per set, including postage. The boards will be without soldermask or silkscreen text, so they won't look as fancy as some of the other boards on the forum. Secondly, those options really push the price up.
This time, I intend not to fail the bulk order ;)
Bouke |
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| Alain Dupont |
Bakmeel,
>>but they were easily patched so I do'nt think a new version is needed.
I would like these fixed before starting the process, will it take time?
Regards.
Alain. |
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| Bakmeel |
Alain,
Hardly. Startoff costs will be a bit higher because the mftr. will have to make new masks. But for my account it's done before you can say "Phono Preamplifier" :cool:
On the other hand, anyone can fix these bugs for themselves. It's no more than scratching some copper here and there, and soldering three wire jumpers....
Bouke |
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| Alain Dupont |
Bakmeel,
>>Hardly. Startoff costs will be a bit higher because the mftr. will have to make new >>masks.
Thanks, I didn't know the masks were already at the manufacture.
>>But for my account it's done before you can say "Phono Preamplifier"
Woahhhhh!
>>On the other hand, anyone can fix these bugs for themselves. It's no more than >>scratching some copper here and there, and soldering three wire jumpers....
I expect so.
Now it's ok for me, I just wanted to be reasured, regards.
Alain. |
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| Evaas |
| What is the price difference if we had to make a new mask? If we have enough people interested, we might be able to do it for a small amount extra. It might be worth it to have a clean board. |
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| Bakmeel |
Heh... well, it actually isn't even worth mentioning.... say €20,- extra for the whole lot, divided by all buyers, you do the math... :)
It's already done btw... the bugs are fixed. :cool: |
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| transducer |
Bouke, would the 75-100 Euro include 2 power supply boards or 1?
Where would you be having the boards manufactured? There are some very cheap board houses in Eastern Europe that do excellent work from what I've read.
Regards,
RonS |
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| Bakmeel |
Ron,
>> Would the 75-100 Euro include 2 power supply boards or 1?
That would be 2 PSU boards, and 2 main boards. A full dual monaural system, so to speak.
>> Where would you be having the boards manufactured?
I will be working with a local pcb manufacturer, whom I got to know more personally. He delivers fine quality for a very friendly price. He always gives me nice price cuts for my prototypes on other projects. :)
I like to stick to this guy, because it's really easy to tell what you want and how you want it. He already knows about the bulk order.. In fact, he is going to help me organise it :)
Bouke |
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| Merijn |
And I just happen to own the other prototype set of PCB's...
And now the bugs are fixxed...
Nice job, they are so fine! |
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| Mark Cortenraad |
How easy is this amp to build for a beginner? Or should I look for an other project. I don't want to build 3 or 4 amps before I'm ready for a Pass.
Mark |
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| GringoAudio2 |
| It is an RIAA pre-amp stage for record players only. |
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| Bakmeel |
Mark,
The Aleph Ono is not that difficult, on condition that you can properly hold a soldering iron, and are willing to take the time, and carefully piece this thing together.
The ono is my second pass project, after the Zen 1. It is really rewarding the two-year effort. :)
Bouke |
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| nagard |
Hi guys!
Please look at my Ono boards.I received them few weeks ago and they are very good quality( FR4 fiberglass basematerial with 50 micrometer copper+tinplated track overlay,trough holes,doublesided with blue soldermask on both sides and white component overlay) The powersupply is included on every board(on the boards left side)All component designators and values are the same as in the Ono sevice manual (exept a few but they are labbeled then as Cx,Jx..)The board dimensions are 280mm x 180 mm ( 11in x 7in) and costs were 35 Euros per board.Tell me what you think about it? I am sorry for the bad picture quality,but i had to reduce the resolution to fit into the 100 Kb limit. |
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| nagard |
uhhhhhhhhhhh!!!
Where is the picture?:smash:
O.k. I will try it with the bottom layer: |
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| nagard |
:smash: :smash:
I try the toplayer with even smaller resolution.Here we go!:confused: |
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| Duck-Twacy |
| quote: | Originally posted by Bakmeel
xnailx,
Did you get any prices for your quotation?
Oh, and here's a picture of the working prototype: |
Bouke, is there a reasonwhy all the items on the ps board are bended? (did you accidentilly sit on it ;) )?
Btw too bad I didn't read of your 600 euro prototype/kit. I just bought me a 400 euro Lehman blackcube, but was planning to make me an Ono in the future.
Still I am interrested in a set of good Ono boards. |
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| Bakmeel |
Duck,
The proto psu is a bit of a mess because I intentionally left all leads as long as possible. This way I can re-use the caps in other projects. The final version has all caps nicely upright :)
Nagard, those are nice PCB's.... and so cheap! was the €35,- for just the prototype or did you have to make more?
Bouke |
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| nagard |
Hi Bakmeel!
Actually i made four pcbs ,but over 10dm2 for the same PCBtype the price did not change= 7 Euros / dm2 for a doublesided,,laser drilled,troughhole plated 50microm. PCB.In natur the PCBs look much nicer with shiny pads and soldermask.I think we are still a cheap country.:bawling: |
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| Bakmeel |
Nagard,
You bet! even with all discounts, I pay about the same per dm2... But that is for "simple" fr4 board with 50um copper, etched and tinned, but not drilled, no through-hole plating, no soldermask or silkscreen....
How do you need to deliver your designs? gerber files?
Bouke |
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| nagard |
Bakmeel,
Mostly I send them the complete Pcbfile (Protel 99) but they accept also Gerber or PostScript files .
Here is a nice detail. I provided few more pads for the Riaa caps and coupling caps, so one could use various brands, even exotic ones, or electrolytes bypassed with polypropylene!? |
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| nagard |
Hi,
I had a few questions from some guys regarding the powersupply . Just to clarify,the whole powersupply including the voltage regulation and filtration is on every board,so you actually need only the transformer and the rectifier ,which should anyway be placed in a separate housing....The whole board is covered with a massive ground plane but with jumpers JX1 and JX2 you can choose whatever you want to connect it to the central ground point or not.
Dragan |
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| Alain Dupont |
xsnailx,
Need some details:
When wil you give us the price for the PCb's, to place the order and how to send you the money!!!
Very good work.
Alain. |
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| nagard |
O.k. guys!
I think I will bite the bullet. Few people emailed me already at home and asking how to order the Ono pcbs.Here we go ,tomorrow I will order 10 pairs (20pcs) from the Pcbmanufacturer,and the price will be 35 Euros per board (mono so you need two) So if somebody is interested e-mail me please. In this moment I do not have a clue how the money transfer could be made, but probably it would be a bankwiretransfer, neither do I know how much would be the postage to various countries. I will get these information’s during this week and I let you know. So please ,be gentle, this is my first time.
Dragan
nagard1@ptt.yu |
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| GringoAudio2 |
| The Aleph-X guys orderd 1400 boards and were able to distribute them(not sell) for $5 US per board with extra profit going to support this discussion board. What is the pr part price for an order of 100 boards or 100 pair? You will have no trouble getting rid of them. $35 Euro per boards is very expensive. Thanks. |
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| nagard |
Hi Greg!
1000 pcs or 100pcs uhhhh, I am not sure if I will even get rid of all these 10 pairs, but probably there would be a big discount for such a big order. In this moment I know that we could get 10 % discount for additional 10 pairs, but I really don’t think that there is so much interest in a phono section.
Actually if someone has a better, speak cheaper source and is willing to organise a group buy, I will share all my Onopcb files (Protel 99).
Regards,Dragan |
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| Dr. ODD |
Hi Dragan
Why dont you post a Wiki Page and see how manny People want to have Boards ? I think there are manny !:) :) :)
I am a bit ashamed suggesting you this work while being lasy by myself at the same Time:ashamed: Maybe if there are manny,I would organise the local distribution in germany, if you want.:) :)
Bernhard |
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| Alain Dupont |
Dr. ODD,
I think it would be nice to know how many are interested..
I vote for the wiky page.
Alain. |
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| GringoAudio2 |
| I don't know why I suggested it. I wouldn't dream of taking on that task myself!!! Sorry for opening my big mouth. |
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| Praudio |
May be a canadian group buy!, much easier for everybody. Or
a US/Canada one. |
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| GringoAudio2 |
| I will ask for a quote from our supplier of PC boards here at Smart Technologies. Nagard can I get the Protel files please? Thanks so much. I will ask for quantities of 100 boards(50 stereo pair) to start. Any takers? How does one start a wiki? |
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| transducer |
I'm interested, but only if the price comes way down. Just can't spend 75-100 Euros on a pair of boards.
Thanks,
RonS
Toronto, Canada |
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| Evaas |
| I'm in the same boat. I would love to buy a pair but I can't spend that much. |
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| GringoAudio2 |
| Even the prototyping prices (which are a lot higher than production prices) at North American suppliers can get you 2 sided boards for 10 buck US each. |
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| Netlist |
| quote: | Originally posted by GringoAudio
How does one start a wiki? |
You can still count me in for a group buy.
When final decisions are made let me know and I'll gladly start the WIKI page.
Which doesn’t mean I'll organize the group buy ;)
/Hugo :) |
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| Boban |
| I am interested as well (if the price is right). |
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| GringoAudio2 |
| As soon as I get the PCB files or at least the board sizes....oh yes I see the boards are 11x7inches. Are there any US volunteers for board distribution. I can do Canada. The boards would be made in the U.S. and would be about $10 US each plus shipping at PCB4less.com |
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| SuppersReady |
Hi Greg,
What sort of quality can we expect from this source?
Paul |
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| GringoAudio2 |
| I will ask our supplier for a quote. I saw these other guys in a copy of EETIMES so they must be legit. You get mask and silkscreen for this price 1oz traces and up to 500 holes drilled. I do not have the Protel files so I cannot get and exact quote yet. |
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| nagard |
Hi guys!
I will be out for a few days,were I have a bad connection so I will try to email the files this evening to Greg and also to Bear Wu who is trying to organise a group buy in Taiwan.They are 1,5Mb large and.rar packed.Till now 6 people were interested for the boards ( 2 Germany, 2 Holland. 1 Danmark, 1 Canada ) ,and they will arrive at the end of next week at my home.So please everybody who is interested and will not wait for the US/Canada group buy contact me,and others email me please to comfirm or deny the order.It is not too late for me to lower the Pcborder,otherwise my future destiny will be
one phonopreamp in every room (even bathroom):clown:
Greg , in this design it is mandatory to ask also for the troughhole plating( the electrolyts on the Powersupplyside are grounded only on the top side, and you can solder them only from the bottom side):smash: |
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| wcsbear |
Hi Dragan:
I have receive your PCB file, I will study and made sample,
If not any problem, i will group buy in Taiwan.
I have some question for your PCB file, if i will change some component,i can change pad size or not.
Thanks.
Best regards |
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| Alain Dupont |
Dragan,
Is there a component's list ?
with recommended parts ?
Regards.
Alain. |
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| nagard |
Hi,
I am still trying to email the Pcbfiles tp Pierre ( Praudio) because i coud not get Gregs email address,but I get always the message from below.With the email to wcsbear was everything allright.Anyway I will be away from home for a few days,and i will have only a bad modem connection.So if you don't want to wait till I am back,you could ask wcsbear to email you the files.
to Alain:i dont have a component list,but I think there was a list in one earlier Ono thread.The component values and designators on the board match with those in the Ono service manual,so it shouldn't be difficult to make a component list.
to wcsbear: yes ,you can change the pads,actually you can change everything,but you must first remove the polygon plane,make the changes and than repour the whole polygon plane again.Dont forget to remove the fills which connect some pads to the groundplane,otherwise the repouring will bypass them. |
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| Alain Dupont |
Nagard,
Thanks, I will take a look at the archives...
Regards.
Alain. |
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| wcsbear |
Hi Dragan:
Thanks your reply.
Best regards |
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| dennis00 |
Hi wcsbear,
I am interesting on the PASS one PCB, if you will hold a group buy, could you let me know. dennis00@giga.net.tw
TKS. |
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| Bakmeel |
Gentlemen,
A long time ago, in a state of mind far far away, I promised to organise an ono group buy. This group buy has now arrived, and I plan to open up the website for subscriptions next week. You will then see a new topic opening up at the pass labs forum.
This group buy will work a little bit different than the ones you might be familiar with. This group buy will be open for as long as there is interest, and the price for the boards will be determined by the ongoing average of interest shown. Each month or so I will collect the orders, send them to the manufacturer, and redistribute the boards.
What will it look like?
The boards won't look as fancy as all the others, since soldermask and silkscreen layers are too expensive in smaller orders. The boards will be epoxy fiberglass, single (PSU) and dual (MainBoard) layered with tinned copper. The boards will be drilled. I will supply the boards with a component layout, schematics, bill of materials, and construction guidelines for the PCB's. I have attatched a picture of the (undrilled) pcb's below.
What will it cost?
That's what this post is about... It kindof depends on the interest shown, but expect something around €10,- per PSU board, and €20,- per MainBoard. Add around €10,- for shipping outside Europe.
What's Next
To determine the exact opening price, I am asking you to reply if you have any interest in a set of boards. You won't have to order anything. ;) |
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| akku |
I was looking forward at an european group buy.
:happy1: |
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| nagard |
Hi guys!
I still have some boards available(nagard Ono boards).The most boards did already arrieve at their destinations ( Netherlands,Germany,Finland....from the others I still don't have any confirmation..) and I hope to hear any comment from the guys who have received the boards.
Here another board detail with the cutted fourth pin on the SK 389( this is the unused pin) |
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