| LOOie |
hi, all
first... BIG THANKS TO ALL the guys :) on this forum for help and information, without which I would not have achieved these results. Of which, I'm reasonably happy considering this is my first attempt.
i guess the best way to show appreciation here is to throw some information and experience back into the mix for everyone. i'll keep posting infomation about my setup here in this thread (with pics too :) )
here we go..
LIGHT SOURCE: A+K Scholar 400 (400w halogen EVD)
LCD PANEL: CMV1515 flat panel monitor
SCREEN: my dirty white bedroom wall
I agonised for ages over the choice between the BENQ 581s/567s and CMV1515. In the end, the CMV1515 won out because opinions on the forums seem to sway towards it as better overall (though not suited for OHP, which was what I was planning!).
I thought I'd take a chance anyway, it seem to be better suited for the primary task I wanted it for.. games :)
See this post for more info..
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/show...&threadid=22059 |
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| LOOie |
| and so it begins.. :) |
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| LOOie |
it took me about 2 hours to get this stage.
i was trying to be really, really careful. i've never pulled apart something like this before.. considering it was brand new and less than a day old ;)
i would be really upset, if i screwed it up at ths stage. |
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| LOOie |
font cover off finally..
TIP: if you have digital camera, take LOTS of pictures of every step of the disassembly process.
reason being... you may want to put back it together again so day in the distant future. i took a picture pretty much everytime a i removed something.
these was especially important for the CMV1515. for some reason, these things are a lot more complicated than my PC (which i regularily tear apart for some reason or other).
It seems to have a fair number of screws of different (close) sizes which its going to very annoying if you dont know where they go.
There was a fair amount of metal shielding too, which I'm removing (and basically discarding) hmm.. i guess there was prolly a good reason for it.. i wonder just how much EM and other wonderful types of radiation these things give out. i'm imagining all those x-rays being pushed out by that big white cathode base :) |
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| LOOie |
ok.. its done, stripped naked. very sexah... :D
note: do not lay it out like this.. i'm an idiot. |
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| LOOie |
this is why..
you can see all those delicate high density black flat cables being stressed, pulled and bent at 90 degrees along the top the LCD. only takes one to tear a little then the panel is an expensive paper weight. luckily they were tough enough for time i was playing with it here but why take the chance?
note the small yellow cable forcing this configuration. it was about this time when i realised that i might have a problem with the flat OHP tray setup i was planning.. erghhh.. |
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| LOOie |
| here's that agravating little cable.. its prolly big enough to extend but i'm cringing at the thought of actually cutting it. |
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| LOOie |
| here it is mounted on the metal tray holder thing that was orignally holding the LCD to the cathode base. As Brainchild suggested in another thread, it siliconed the LCD to it to protect it and the cables. I didn't use as much as he did though, just enough to secure the corners in case i had to take it apart again. |
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| Mr.Kh |
Looks awesome, I just got my Samsung152T apart yesterday, and damn the panels look sexy :P But your FFC looks way nicer than mine :( eek :P Yeah I am really worried about cutting the FFC I know I can extend it with my pro-skills at soldering, but ... EEK!
Nice work and pics! |
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| LOOie |
my light source.. 400 watts of halogen goodness. its ******* bright and hot enough to barbeque on the stage (ok, i'm exaggerating a little... but it's a really hot light)
it has color temperature adjustments (means just moving the light bulb up and down inside the projector casing) and a turbo bright mode :) (i think it just switches the spare lamp on at the same time as the primary one... like it wasnt hot enough already. thats 2 x 400w halogen lights inside that small space)
TIP: do not look directly into the lens when the projector is on, you will be blinded for about 5 minutes and there will be a big purple/red spot in your vision for the next hour or so :xeye: |
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| LOOie |
| thanks, hmm.. good luck on the soldering, Mr.Kh I saw something on one of the other threads that it was very risky. cant remember the thread exactly. i would avoid all together if i can. |
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| LOOie |
my first test of the thing..
yeah!! i got a blank light on the wall.
plugged it into my notebook. geeze... the LCD got really hot just sitting there with the light on, so i put had to put a big fan on it (only one i could find at the time). it kinda worked. |
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| LOOie |
i cant believe it.. !!!! :D
OK.. the picture is blurry, out of focus, and i can only see about 3/4 of the Windows desktop and its also back to front.
BUT IT WORKS!!! YEAH!! |
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| LOOie |
| here is the LCD, being barbequed on my OHP stage.. i can almost smell the melting plastic... hmmm.. yummy. |
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| LOOie |
sooo.. i've proven the concept works. now for the real stuff....
over the next few days.. i gather some bits and pieces, e.g. fans, wood, ect. i need to build a frame for the LCD and fans and maybe split the fresnel lens and sandwich the LCD so i can get full screen.
The LCD would sit on top of the frame, so the board will dangle down, thus i wont need to worry about the board being at an angle (because of that putrid little yellow cable).
I have also decided on a scientific construction and design methodology which as served humankind for thousand of years, the TLAR (that looks about right) method.
here i am scientifically measuring what i need to build. yep.. those are 2 x 12cm fans, one's also Panaflow. Both should push more than enough air to cool the LCD. |
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| LOOie |
hmm.. dont you just love it when great plans goes wrong. :rolleyes:
i'm too embarrassed to post any pictures in this during this period. Here's a summary.. :bawling:
1. I have not done any wood working since high school. And now, I know why. I must have some physical defect because I just cannot cut in straight line, or if it is straight, its going to go in the wrong direction.
2. Just laying stuff out without any real planning is not really suffcient to fully visualize the final result. Things wont fit properly, derrr...
3. I do not have enough patience to split a fresnel lens. i hacked the corners off and pryed it apart with a screw driver. if you're not careful enough, you'll crack it... funnily enough, thats exactly what happend.
4. if you cut a fresnel with hacksaw, make sure it is properly secured or you will make an existing crack bigger, which is exactly what happened. if you're going to then try to superglue the crack together, DO NOT, because you're going put ugly white marks and finger prints around the crack making it stand out even more. Best yet, superglue doesnt seem to work on optical grade fresnel plastic anyway. Good thing I didn't try to testing this out on an off-cut piece first. arghhh.. :(
5. Just when you're about 5mm away from perfect cut of the second half of the lens, the forces of the universe will conspire against you and put another huge crack in it.
6. Big, high RPM fans also means big noise and also at an annoying pitch too. Sticking fingers in them to feel how much air is going though them is a dumb idea.
7. Keep sharp things like screwdrivers FAR away from the LCD panels because LCDs have a some magical property to attract sharp things towards themselves. luckily, the scratch wasnt deep, just 5mm and not really noticable when projected.
8. Hmm.. there are stiff cables(not the flat ones) which connect the boards, you will need to make allowances if you dont want to stress them or thier connectors. this is a good thing to know because i totally did not even consider this so the frame i made was too small after i put the LCD in. yay..
9. super strength 5 minute expoxy glue really sets after 5 minutes... if you make a mistake with the glueing and rip the wood off, it will be the weak wood which will break, not the expoxy.
Soo.. after all this fun, I decided wisely that it would not be a good idea for me to try my luck with some glass. So I went to the hardware store to look for some clear perspex (plexiglass same thing?). I found some big sheet (window size) stuff they called clear acrylic and also some clear polycarbonate for a little bit more. I ended buying the polycarbonate, because it says 99% UV protection, which i guess is good think for LCDs.
I wasnt sure how much UV the halo light would put out but considerable I guess. As a bonus, it turns out that the polycarbonate seems a lot harder to scratch than I would have expected. It will also deflect a cricket ball or a brick thrown at it with full force according to the label. Always a useful property for a DIY projector :xeye: |
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| LOOie |
Anyway.. i DID manage to get some results. here's my craptastic creation.
LCD is sandwiched between the fresnel i split. the top fresnel is raised above LCD about a 10mm to reduce rings appearing in the image. |
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| LOOie |
another of this fire hazard waiting to happen. this is my fan power supply salvaged from a PC carcass I had lying around.
12 cm fan and 8 cm fan, way more than enough cooling. |
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| LOOie |
| yay it still works.. |
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| LOOie |
and, finally, guys.. here are there results.
here tweaking the CMV1515, 9300k seems to be best provide the best color saturation for this OHP light. I had to tweak it a bit but I found out that the default settings plus this plus 100% contrast is perfect for my setup, 95% of the time. |
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| LOOie |
my windows desktop.
i was suprised that the picture was so good, this image does not do it justice. the whites are whites, reds are reds, etc. There is still a bit of gamma tweaking depending on what you program or game you use, not much though.
as far are brightness goes, there was a fair bit of light leakage from the OHP but i could still see this clearly. its not usable druing daylight hours though.. i dont think many projectors are.
as far as picture quality, hmmm.. i'd say it was about the same as commerical projector IF you are comparing the center of the screen. it blurs just a little bit towards the edges (due to the warping of my fresnel as it heats up I guess). An entry level projector would also be 800x600 (this is 1024x768)and i doubt that it would perform as good with the refresh rate. |
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| LOOie |
| my first real test.. the main reason i went though this.. GAMES!!! |
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| LOOie |
OMG..
the immersion feeling in the VR cockpit is sooo good I want to throw up... you can almost touch the trees with your hands when you fly low.
i going the get a head tracking unit in a few weeks as well so i can really make myself sick. |
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| LOOie |
Jedi Academy..
wow.. |
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| LOOie |
| ohh.. this is the inside on my projector looking down at the stage glass. I removed the fresnel. |
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| LOOie |
HaloPC..
I was a little disspointed, Halo's colors was little washed out but the game was normally like that. |
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| LOOie |
Homeworld 2..
after some gamma tweaking, it was incredible.. |
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| LOOie |
| space battles are meant to be like this.. |
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| LOOie |
| need for speed: underground |
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| LOOie |
Raven Shield
Its ironic really, playing games on such a big screen is fantastic. You sometimes fell like you're really there.
But I'm finding I suck more than usual playing games like these and BF1942 (especially online) because I have to move my eyes to see whole screen, so I sometimes miss something and pay for it by dying. (e.g. i cant see the radar without moving my eyes)
I guess I can sit further back, but then I might as well just play it on my 19" monitor then. |
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| LOOie |
| i'm trying to show how sharp the picture is and so called screen-door but the camera keeps blurring the picture, i think i move the camera when i press the button. |
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| LOOie |
ok, the obligatory movie pictures..
Attack of the clowns.. ermm Clones.. |
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| LOOie |
Matrix
shows contrast ratio of the cmv1515 |
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| LOOie |
Lord of the Rings
shows tones.. i should mention that each DVD needs to be tweaked with colors/gamma to get the right effect, though i seem to have found a general setting that works with most now. |
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| LOOie |
Die Anothe Day..
Prolly one of my best pictures which comes close to what I am actually seeing as the camera likes to wash out the pictures. |
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| LOOie |
ohh..geeze, i need to get some sleep, i've been posting all night.
Good night all.. hope this thread answers some questions for the noobies...
My next project, i'm redoing my frame for the LCD and cutting/splitting another fresnel (my spare :)). Maybe even a proper screen.. More later.
And, remember... Don't forget Mister Pointy. |
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| VvvvvV |
Brillaint pictures, i want those games!!! :eek:
great project, i guess i know what it's like to rush at things and crack them, that what always do. at least with some things.
i think that just using a normal fresnel where the ohp one normally is should give amazing details and light convergence... just like using the lcd as a transparency. have you tried? that is what i have it's great.
try white pvc shower curtain to hang over the dirty wall dude it's probably really reflective...
good one man! |
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| brainchild |
| Fun ain't it LOO? |
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| XXmas |
:bigeyes: :bigeyes: :bigeyes: i also want to build this !!
but now i have (some) questions...
1. where did you get the CMV1515 ?? do you have any details on this display :confused: ?
2. which fresnel did you use ? what about the fresnel in the OHP - is it useful :confused: ?
3. what exactly did you use the polycarbonate for :confused: ?
4. Could you please tell me how much you paid for all the parts :confused: ?
thanks in advance, sorry for my english
and nice greetings from austria, central europe :D |
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| VvvvvV |
hey, the CMV 1515 is available in deutshland in google, i think i have seen some .de websites with this one. if you can find a very good deal in europe please post a link for it!!
any normal ohp type fresnel is perfect, and alot of people do this:
http://www.diylabs.org/projector/fresnel_splitting.htm
but to be honest i think that it is not necessary for a CMV because it has the widest viewing angle available. |
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| Video Freak |
| Hey looie are those pics of the lcd or screen? can you take some pics of your setup lights on etc and of the projected surface with something in the pic to be size representative? thanks and great job.:D |
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| LOOie |
Brainchild,
Your original excellent pics from your 1515 setup was what convinced me to jump in.. :)
VvvvvV,
i dont have a shower curtain to test with though i have some results with a plain old bedsheet i post later :)
| quote: | Originally posted by Video Freak
Hey looie are those pics of the lcd or screen? can you take some pics of your setup lights on etc and of the projected surface with something in the pic to be size representative? thanks and great job.:D |
all of the pics are of the screen, not much point i can see of showing pics of the LCD.
hmmm... here is a pic of my dirty wall :) i accidently left my camera flash on when i was trying to take pics of my windows desktop. those are cdrom covers at the bottom of the pic for size comparisions. actually, you can see same stuff at the bottom in the my second pic of desktop in an earlier post.
i just measured it, its about 2 meters by 1.5 meters. |
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| LOOie |
I still have my original OHP fresnel (just removed and stored away) and brought 2 extra from http://www.3dlens.com I figured that might need it because i might screw one up. (lucky, I did!!)
#OHP310 $ 29.00 USD
Quantity Unit Price 1~ 4 @US$29.00
310mm x 310mm (12.2"x12.2")
Item: #OHP310
Thickness: 4mm
Weight: 460 grams
Material: optical acrylic
Groove pitch: 0.5mm
Focal length: 132mm (f1:330mm f2:220mm)
They are in Taiwan, it took only a few days to ship to Australia and they were very responsive to emails. unfortunately i forgot to ask them if they ship with the lens pre-split. I guess they manufacture the things, they have all sorts of interesting stuff on thier site. Though it might be better to find a suppiler closer to you.
This is a cross section of my setup. |
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| LOOie |
VvvvvV,
yes.. actually, i did all sorts of tests with the lens configuration and this was the best for me. i was following that other thread with the debate about split lenses. i would recommend testing different configs to everyone as this seems to be more of an art form than exact science :)
my observations were..
1. when putting the LCD (raised about 20mm above the OHP stage because of the PCB) without removing original OHP fresnel. the LCD got hot because all the light was focused on it and only about 3/4 of the LCD was lit.
2. putting the fresnel unsplit directly behind the LCD was awkward for my particular setup. but some rough testing showed that it still heated up the LCD and i still had some of the edges of the LCD unlit.
3. After I removed the OHP fresnel and set it up as above. I immediately got full screen and the LCD was not as hot. There is a bit more blurring towards the edges but to so much that it was annoying. The picture was brighter too. However, you could see some rings from the fresnel. after i put a 10mm between the top fresnel and LCD, the rings where gone but it will reduce your brightness level somewhat. i ended up just using clothes pegs to make the distance. Also, the color temperature adjustment on the OHP just happens to allow me to get the right focal length on the bottom fresnel. (all it does is move the lamp up and down) |
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| LOOie |
| here is the underside, showing clear polycarbonate bottom with lower fresnel taped on it. |
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| LOOie |
here is the inside, lifting the LCD..
note: i'm going to redo this frame now that i know what works. its a bit ugly and an electrical hazzard. |
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| LOOie |
cost?
hmmm.. this is how much i've spent in Australian dollars so far.
1. 400w halogen OHP from e-bay. $165AUD
2. brand new CMV1515 $495AUD
3. 2 x 12" fresnel lens $80USD(inc shipping)
4. clear polycarbonate sheet (from hardware store)1m x 1.5m $40AUD
5. wood.. free :) left over from something I found.
6. 2 x 10cm PC fans, free from several old PCs I have.
7. AT power supply for fans, $5AUD from PC markets.
overall.. i have most of the features of a mid-range 1024x768 commerical projector at about less than half the price of an entry 800x600 commerical projector so i'm reasonably happy.. :D |
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| Blue_aerox |
| does plexiglass (or polycarbonate as you call it...... the same?) work as an uv-filter? |
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| cruser |
| LOOie very nice results job well done!!! nice to see people exparament to find what works best for their setups, and post their findings you are a credit to this fourm:up: keep up the good work |
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| hassler |
Hi Looie,
Good to see your setup is working so well.
I don't want to start the split vs non split fresnel debate in this thread, however I did find the image to be significantly sharper when both fresnels were placed before the LCD.
I know you had trouble trying to get the whole LCD Shown on your screen because of the PCB. Did you try flipping the LCD so that the light enters from what originally was the front of the screen?
My setup is as follows,
yellow = 6mm Low e glass (very transparent)
blue = fresnel
pink = LCD
this setup allows me to place the LCD very close to the top fresnel and I hardly lose any of my screen area. The amount of glass I have between the LCD and the light also stops the LCD from heating up. |
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| LOOie |
Blue_aerox,
The local hardware store had 2 kinds of clear plastic sheets, clear acrylic and clear polycarbonate. They are huge, about 1m x 1.5m and is used for plastic windows for houses. the polycarbonate was a little bit more expensive but also had a UV reflective coating on one side(according to the manufacturer's label) which the acrylic did not have. You'll need to check this first.
I'm not sure what Plexiglass is exactly.. my guess is that it is the same as acrylic?
cruser,
thanks.. i'm only following your good example :D i hope this will encourage more people here to do the same.
hassler,
yeah, the PCB was a pain but i found that this current setup works best for me.
i can seen pretty much the whole screen except a bit of the corners cut off but that doesnt bother me that much, my wall isnt big enough so that i could fit the whole screen on it anyway. :)
i think my setup a little different from yours as i'm using a projector setup, i.e. the OHP has a mirror at the top lens housing. i guess i could flip it but i will need another mirror.
what is 6mm Low e glass and where can you get it? the polycarbonate works very well but i wonder if glass will be better at stopping the heat. |
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| hassler |
Low e glass is made to absorb as little light as possible, much less than regular glass.
I got mine from Pilkington glass (they have stores nation wide), You can get 3mm sheets if you want, they only had 6mm in stock when I went to see them. |
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| AirPlus |
Hi Looie, Brainchild
me and a few other guys from Germany bought that CMV 1515 display you were using for your projector. We saw your great results and now the 1515 is almost the reference for 15" projectors here, as these screens really rock.
Unfortunately no one has finished his projector here as we are just in the process of disassembling the displays.
Basicly we are very happy about the displays and with the results so far.
I were just wondering whether you solved the problem of that short ribbon cable in the right corner of the bottom of your tfts already and if might know a supplier, who sells lager ones.
Kind Regards |
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| brainchild |
| Hi AirPlus, I'm using my CMV in an enclosure which doesn't necessitate lenghtening the cable. LOOie came up with some arrangement for his OHP route. |
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| ace3000_1 |
brainchild im on yahoo can u jump on for a min plzz bud?
Trev |
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| dracul |
This low e glass, when you bought it did you ask them what its normally used for? I am not in the us and need to try to track it down that way.
Also you have the fresnels before the lcd but are you only splitting them. I mean do you have a little distance between the fresnels? IF so how come? |
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| harmsd |
LOOie,
I have just finished my own OHP + 15" lcd screen setup and it is working great, i will post the results in a seperate thread shortly.
I am currently having the same problem you did by which about 1" of the lcd is cut of on each side because it is wider then the fresnel of the OHP, after doing your fresnel split and making a frame for all three did you get the FULL lcd projected onto the wall, it appears as you did i just wanted to be clear on it. |
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| dracul |
| But this is not an issue for letterboxed movies correct? |
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| Guy Grotke |
Low emissivity glass lets all the visible light through, but blocks most of the long wavelength IR. But it doesn't block the near-IR. It is used in house windows to prevent the emission of heat (long wave) out the windows during the winter. So sunlight can come in with all the visible light and near IR, get absorbed by walls, floors, etc. Then the longwave IR those objects emit will be reflected back into the house. You can use it in a projector to block longwave IR emitted by hot surfaces around the lamp. It won't help at all to block the heat coming diretly from the lamp. You need a hot mirror for that. Or maybe some V-Cool film.
Plexiglas is a registered trademark for acrylic, like Lexan is for polycarbonate. Both of these absorb UV very well, but that process eventually degrades the material so it turns yellow and foggy. Lexan XL has a special UV blocking coating on one side to prevent the UV from getting to the polycarbonate layer. So it should work better for longer. (Make sure you get the UV coating facing the lamp!) I find Lexan much easier to cut than Plexiglas: I use a fine toothed metal-cutting blade on a jigsaw. Cuts beautifully! |
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| HiLLBiLLY |
| For those that don't have the luxury of power tools ie. jigsaw, dremel or a router to cut the plexi you can use a fine tooth metal blade from a hacksaw to get the job done too :-) |
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| LOOie |
wow.. people still read this thread? sorry, i havent been on here for almost a year and email hasnt been working for most of that :)
letterboxed movies have never been an issue for me but i guess everyone's OHP setup is a little different. i'm missing about an half icon's width (about less than 0.5") on both sides, its annoying but i can live with it. brainchild's setup is still the best setup for this sort of thing if you're willing to put in the effort, IMHO. |
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| BELGOFAC |
Hi Looie,
Great job you did. As you noticed more and more people are jumping on the Home built projector bandwagon because of the high costs of the commercial bulbs. I am one of them. I live in Melbourne, and I got inetersted by spending a lot of time on the Australian Media centre website.
A have a few question though.
Are you using the original light setup of your ohp?
How hard was it to replace the original lenses of the ohp?
Regards,
Belgo |
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| LOOie |
yep, original light setup, it gets a bit warm though with the halogen.
re: lens, I just unscrewed the fresnel from the bottom and removed it altogther. The top mirror/lens assembly is unchanged.
hmm.. its been almost 2 years since I started this thing. commerical projectors have got a lot cheaper and people's diy techniques have gotten a lot better. the OHP is good and easy for a quick first project but if you're serious about results, check out brainchild's lumenlab site, theres a few few aussies there. or for a free site, check out the results from aussies @ OCAU site here and here. |
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